Vet Imposter

[VelcroSky]

In the end, undercover kitten got his man

NEW YORK (AP) -- A fake veterinarian collared in an undercover sting involving a kitten named Fred was sentenced to probation and mandatory psychiatric treatment.

Steven Vassall, 29, learned his sentence Tuesday in State Supreme Court after pleading guilty to scheming to defraud and to unauthorized practice of veterinary medicine.

His case drew worldwide attention for the role played by Fred the tabby, a rescued stray.

An investigator posing as Fred's owner had summoned Vassall to an apartment rigged with a hidden camera early last year and pretended the kitten needed to be neutered. Vassal told him he could do it for $135, then was arrested as he left carrying Fred in a box with the cash.

Vassall was accused of performing medical procedures on at least 14 animals, according to his July indictment. Under his plea bargain, he must attend an outpatient mental health program and refrain from involvement in nursing or animal care.

Fred got a tiny badge on his collar, a Law Enforcement Appreciation Award and was honored at an adopt-a-thon benefit hosted by Mary Tyler Moore and Bernadette Peters.

Officials had planned to use him in a classroom program about animal care, but the 15-month-old tabby died in August after wandering from his caretaker's home and into traffic, according to the Brooklyn District Attorney's Office.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/05/23/undercover.kitten.ap/index.html

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[Bill59]

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

well that was effective

 

[VelcroSky]

well that was effective

Shhh! Don't tell anyone; I don't want to go to jail.

 

[4theanimals]

First: glad this guy got time. BUT second - They let Fred "wander" from his caretaker's home into traffic. Good lord folks come on?! You would think one of the requirements for the caretaker would be that Fred should be an indoor only cat. Wander certainly doesn't make it sound like he accidentally escaped. One more example for why cats should be indoor I guess.

 

[dyachei]

First: glad this guy got time. BUT second - They let Fred "wander" from his caretaker's home into traffic. Good lord folks come on?! You would think one of the requirements for the caretaker would be that Fred should be an indoor only cat. Wander certainly doesn't make it sound like he accidentally escaped. One more example for why cats should be indoor I guess.

I can't say I agree with this. Indoor/Outdoor and outdoor cats are usually capable of not wandering into traffic. As long as they are trained to have a healthy understanding of cars, it shouldn't be a problem. I've had outdoor cats since I can remember and have never had a problem. And my cats love being outdoors. I can't imagine taking that away from them.

 

[silverelf]

I can't say I agree with this. Indoor/Outdoor and outdoor cats are usually capable of not wandering into traffic. As long as they are trained to have a healthy understanding of cars, it shouldn't be a problem. I've had outdoor cats since I can remember and have never had a problem. And my cats love being outdoors. I can't imagine taking that away from them.

you can't train ANY animal to just "stay out of traffic", and you certainly can't presume to train a cat. You can call them "street-smart" or whatever you like, but the fact of the matter is that they are instinctual creatures, and if they see a squirrel on the other side of the road, they are NOT going to look both ways and wait for the traffic to clear so they can safely cross the road. They will run across, and if they are in the wrong spot at the wrong time, they will get hit. I have seen WAY WAYYYYY too many owners who had animals that were injured/killed by cars or trains because they thought their animal was street-smart and would never go near the road. Well one day that animal did and it paid dearly. You have been unbelievably lucky if you've never had a loose animal get hit by a car, or you live on a very small street with no traffic. In which case, you should be worried about coyotes.

I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm yelling at you (and to a point I guess I am) but this is something that I hear from owners all the time and it angers me to no end. If you want your cat to go outside, then build a safe enclosure for them that will keep predators out and the cats safe inside. And put your dog on dogwatch or a run.

 

[dyachei]

Delete

 

[philomycus]

All my kitties are indoor only. I only have 1 kitty that I will let go outside and that's only when I'm with her, but she has a harness and a long leash staked to the ground. Even though she's a slow mover, I don't want somtheing to spook her and have her run across the road.

Her name is Spat. Too close to Splat for my liking, I don't take chances.

Sorry for jumping in here, but I am dying over here on the alternate list and have nothing better to do.

 

[Azawakh]

Whether or not to have an outdoor or indoor/outdoor cat should be an informed personal decision. One just needs to realize that it comes with responsibility. Like paying for abcessed bites, strict vaccination compliance, and potentially losing your pet (car, coyote). These risks may be worth it to you if you live in a rural area. I don't think it's fair to criticize those who decide to let there animals go outdoors as long as they are informed and willing to accept the responsibility that comes with that decision. I have an amazing red persian cat and when I was in college in VT he was an indoor/outdoor cat for a year and loved it. When I moved to Boston he was an indoor cat because I wasn't willing to shoulder the additional risks that living in the middle of a city presents. Now I am living in grafton and a poor vet student mired in debt and I wouldn't be able to afford exorbitant veterinary bills if he got hurt and I am not willing to risk his safety at this point. When I am at home in suburbia he goes out sometimes. He is one of those "street smart" cats. He looks both ways. On the other hand there are many cats that live in the neighborhood who are outdoor cats and they are doing very well. I would never admonish there owners or get "angry" if they came into a practice I worked at it. It's choice and they are entitled to there own. It just gets under my skin when vets get on soap boxes about this issue and others like neutering. It's not black and white.

 

[4theanimals]

Well, I guess I officially high jacked this thread (didn't know it would). Obviously, my cats are indoor cats. That came about because I only had one cat in my childhood that lived to a ripe age (and we alwasy had cats). We had many cats that just "disappeared", a cat that was shot with a BB gun, a couple that we knew got hit by car and one that a family member backed over in the driveway. I wasn't willing to take the risks when I got my own cats. Indoor cats do just fine. You play with them, you sit with them, you give them things to climb on. I know I am not risking their lives nor do I have to deal with fleas or pump them full of vaccinations. Those neighborhood cats seem to do well but how long are they really living? And the reality is that most people don't make an "informed" decision about having their pets outside. At the shelter we see so many cats HBC, FeLV, random abscess', etc. I'm with Silverelf on this one.

Oh and sort of back on topic. Here is Fred this cat who gets awarded a medal and they were going to use for education. Particularly in this situation you would think they would ensure Fred was safe.

 

[Azawakh]

I just don't think it is fair to say that one way is better than another way. I don't think there is a right answer to this question. Chosing to keep a cat indoors doesn't make you a better owner. It doesn't matter if indoor cats have a longer average lifespan and die of chronic renal failure. Animals die. Some are even slaughtered for food. A cat that lives for 6 yrs coming and going as it pleases and then gets killed by a coyote/car could potential have lived as happy a life a cat that was indoor only, sleeps all day and dies of leukemia at 19 yrs. I don't think it is for anyone to say that one way is better. It will be our jobs as veterinarians to discuss these issues with our clients and not get on soap boxes and tell owners they are necessarily making a "bad" decision for letting there cats go out. If you aren't willing to take that risk with your pet that is fine but if Tom is willing to take the risk then that is fine too. As long as his pet is neutered and it is feasible (i.e not in the middle of a busy city intersection). Every owner isn't born knowing these things and that is where veterinarians can come in to educate.

 

[Mylez]

Another thing not mentioned here is that outdoor cats kill thousands of birds (cumulatively) in a year. In some circumstances, this scale of death is too high for the native population to handle when feral cats (and pet cats let loose) are allowed to roam. There is nothing more fatal to a bird than a cat bite (believe me, I've seen so many die of bites from a cat that had they been caused by something else, they would have lived).

Personally? Keep your cats indoors and save our wild birds, as well as preserve your cat's health.

 

[Emio]

IChosing to keep a cat indoors doesn't make you a better owner.

i'm debating bringing my cat to philly just because i don't want her to be stuck inside all the time

i found it rather humorous that there was a great hooplah about Fred, and then: "Unfortunately, Fred is dead." and that was it, lol. well, he made his difference.

 

[Azawakh]

Another thing not mentioned here is that outdoor cats kill thousands of birds (cumulatively) in a year. In some circumstances, this scale of death is too high for the native population to handle when feral cats (and pet cats let loose) are allowed to roam. There is nothing more fatal to a bird than a cat bite (believe me, I've seen so many die of bites from a cat that had they been caused by something else, they would have lived).

Personally? Keep your cats indoors and save our wild birds, as well as preserve your cat's health.

Saving wild birds is a very weak argument for keeping cats indoors. Especially considering it is a non-issue in the U.S. A real solution would be addressing habitat destruction and pollution.

Feral cats are generally much more hardy and immunocompetent than indoors pets so if we used that logic we should all let our cats out into the street.

Honestly keeping cats indoors is not preserving their genetic viability. It does lessen the risk of accidental death but it is not preserving their health. Call it what it is. It is for our personal reasons. Not everyone wants to risk having their cat eaten or run over and that is fine. Others risk it and sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. I have seen a lot of abused cats (broken tails, matted fur, etc) and if they had a their choice they would run away.

 

[Bill59]

Saving wild birds is a very weak argument for keeping cats indoors. Especially considering it is a non-issue in the U.S.

It's a huge issue. If you want to hear a rant, bring up outdoor cats to a wildlife veterinarian. The American Bird Conservatory along with a number of bird and wildlife organizations has a large campaign to educate cat owners that cats be kept indoors http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/

Also, outdoor access for cats is assocaited with an increase risk of FeLV, FIV and rabies infection, trauma (including HBC and bite wounds), and relinquishmet to animal shelter. The American Association of Feline Practitioners “encourage keeping owned cats indoors, in an outdoor enclosure, or on an attended leash.” http://www.aafponline.org/resources/statements/feral_cats.htm

 

[VelcroSky]

Saving wild birds is a very weak argument for keeping cats indoors. Especially considering it is a non-issue in the U.S. A real solution would be addressing habitat destruction and pollution.

From Columbia University:

"Ecological Role: Although some "cat-philic" organizations insist that cats have been mistakenly vilified as native-species killers, it is apparent they do much damage in the ecosystems to which they are introduced. Cats prey upon birds, small mammals, reptiles, and amphibians whether or not they are given meals by human owners. Throughout their domestication, cats have become more dependent on their human owners for food, but since they have specific nutritional requirements that can only be met by fresh meat (and recently in the West, by high-quality commercial cat food), cats have retained their wild ancestors' ability and instinct to hunt. One estimate numbers the US cat population at 93 million (30 million feral and 63 million pet) and states that cats are responsible for killing 566 million birds each year. Other estimates put the feral cat population at 60 million and the pet cat population at 73 million. In one Swiss study on the impact of cats on a population of black redstarts, Phoenicurus ochruros , scientists found that cat predation reduced the population by 12% in three years by causing large numbers of egg and nestling fatalities. Another study of the impact of exotic species on seabirds on the California Channel Islands and northwestern Baja California Islands found that, of several exotics, cats had the greatest impact on seabirds; they are responsible the for the extinction of the Guadalupe storm petrel (Oceanodrama macrodactyla ) and for eliminating populations of three other seabirds. Whatever population estimate one chooses to adhere to, it is clear the number of cats is in the tens of millions and undoubtedly has an immense impact on our native ecosystems."

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/danoff-burg/invasion_bio/inv_spp_summ/Felis_catus.html

 

[Azawakh]

The most cited threat to wild birds and wildlife is habitat loss, fragmentation and habit degradation. Period. You can use the references cited in the two previous posts as my references. Feral/Domestic cats may and clearly do play a role in select habitats (i.e Baja California). However even in these cases the wildlife in question were already threatened due to habitat loss and degradation. The blame for loss of wildlife lies with humans, not cats. If people are truly concerned about this issue then they need to address the damage cause by habitat destruction, fragmentation and degradation first. Keeping cats indoors while destroying the environment will do little to save wild birds.

 

[VelcroSky]

The most cited threat to wild birds and wildlife is habitat loss, fragmentation and habit degradation. Period. You can use the references cited in the two previous posts as my references. Feral/Domestic cats may and clearly do play a role in select habitats (i.e Baja California). However even in these cases the wildlife in question were already threatened due to habitat loss and degradation. The blame for loss of wildlife lies with humans, not cats. If people are truly concerned about this issue then they need to address the damage cause by habitat destruction, fragmentation and degradation first. Keeping cats indoors while destroying the environment will do little to save wild birds.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Just because the greatest threat to wildlife is habitat destruction, does not mean that we should therefore neglect all other threats until the top one is eliminated. That's like saying since heart disease is the number one killer of women that we should ignore all other diseases, like cancer, until we've solved the heart disease problem.

 

[wildfocus]

The most cited threat to wild birds and wildlife is habitat loss, fragmentation and habit degradation. Period. You can use the references cited in the two previous posts as my references. Feral/Domestic cats may and clearly do play a role in select habitats (i.e Baja California). However even in these cases the wildlife in question were already threatened due to habitat loss and degradation. The blame for loss of wildlife lies with humans, not cats. If people are truly concerned about this issue then they need to address the damage cause by habitat destruction, fragmentation and degradation first. Keeping cats indoors while destroying the environment will do little to save wild birds.

scientifically speaking there is no PERIOD. we are talking ecosystems here, so there are always going to be multiple factors and tweaking out what's *really* responsible for population declines is unbelievably difficult (and will for sure be challenged by other scientists).

introduced species threatens wildlife in several ways. they directly and indirectly compete for resources, they predate on native species, and they can alter habitats. The evidence suggests that cats DO make a difference to bird populations in urban areas. of course they are not the only problem, but they DO exacerbate it. not convinced? here is some peer-reviewed literature to check out.

Baker PJ, Bentley AJ, Ansell RJ, et al. Impact of predation by domestic cats Felis catus in an urban area. MAMMAL REVIEW 35 (3-4): 302-312 JUL-OCT 2005

Murphy EC, Keedwell RJ, Brown KP, et al. Diet of mammalian predators in braided river beds in the central South Island, New Zealand. WILDLIFE RESEARCH 31 (6): 631-638 2004

Lepczyk CA, Mertig AG, Liu JG. Landowners and cat predation across rural-to-urban landscapes. BIOLOGICAL CONSERVATION 115 (2): 191-201 FEB 2004

Woods M, McDonald RA, Harris S. Predation of wildlife by domestic cats Felis catus in Great Britain. MAMMAL REVIEW 33 (2): 174-188 JUN 2003

Keitt BS, Wilcox C, Tershy BR, et al. The effect of feral cats on the population viability of black-vented shearwaters (Puffinus opisthomelas) on Natividad Island, Mexico. ANIMAL CONSERVATION 5: 217-223 Part 3 AUG 2002

 

[PdxYOSHI]

Outdoor cats (particulary feral cats) are not an issue concerning wildlife managment that is to be ignored. Multiple states, especially coastal states, such as Florida, Oregon, California, and Hawaii all have extensive research projects that are currently studying the impacts of cats on bird populations. This is not a problem that is limited to only other countries. Wildlife management is a tricky business. When anything impacts reproduction and survival such as cats killing ground nesting birds or migrating birds, then its not something to be taken lightly and brushed off because other factors are undoubtedly playing a role. Unfortunately, it is this sort of attitude (Its not my problem or I'm not the only one doing it) that is perpetuating the struggle to make environmental progress.

 

[QTkitty]

My cats are indoor/ outdoor, and I couldn't imagine it any other way. I do monitor their time outside and have trained them to stay in my yard, so I feel like I have made an educated effort to ensure their safety. So here we go, I'm going to say it- I think it's unnatural to force a cat to live indoors all its life. It is a personal choice and I'm sure the cats life long healthy lives, but i couldn't imagine taking the outdoors away from my cats. When I get home from school or work they meow at the door because they want out. At the risk of over anthropomorphizing, my cats enjoy roaming around the yard and following bugs outdoors. As far as wildlife, I can understand the issue but my cats are extreme sissies and only catch bugs Anyway, sorry to the people advocating for indoor cats, but mine wont ever be.

 

[Spartanvet4cows]

My cats are strictly indoor for a couple reasons. My older cat is afraid of open spaces, he was when I got him. I've let him venture out with me a couple times and he goes 3 steps out the door, lets out a pathetic mew and rolls onto his back (getting very dirty in the process). The other one, I've only had for a few weeks and don't necessarily trust what he will do if I let him out. Plus my husband who won't admit it, but loves the cats to death is so afraid they'll get some disease that he freaks whenever I talk about letting them out. Trust me, I've tried talking sense into him, he's a chemistry expert, certainly not an animal expert. I think if I trusted the younger cat I would probably let him out with supervision, maybe I'll get him a harness to use when my hubby isn't home

 

[dyachei]

My cats are indoor/ outdoor, and I couldn't imagine it any other way. I do monitor their time outside and have trained them to stay in my yard, so I feel like I have made an educated effort to ensure their safety. So here we go, I'm going to say it- I think it's unnatural to force a cat to live indoors all its life. It is a personal choice and I'm sure the cats life long healthy lives, but i couldn't imagine taking the outdoors away from my cats. When I get home from school or work they meow at the door because they want out. At the risk of over anthropomorphizing, my cats enjoy roaming around the yard and following bugs outdoors. As far as wildlife, I can understand the issue but my cats are extreme sissies and only catch bugs Anyway, sorry to the people advocating for indoor cats, but mine wont ever be.

This is all I was originally trying to say. For my cats, I can't imagine keeping them indoors only. it shouldn't be an "all cats should be indoors" statement. It all depends.

And as for life expectancy, if your cat is going to be an outdoor cat in any way, there are of course precautions (like vaccines, etc.).

It all depends on where you live and your cats. If you live in a place that has a problem with cats and wildlife, make an informed decision. If your cats are not hunters, there shouldn't be a problem with wildlife.

Also, just from my experience, my indoor/outdoor cats and my fiance's outdoor cats have never had a problem with traffic or any of that. My brother's indoor cats constantly try to sneak out and often run out into the middle of the road and stop. I'm more worried about them than I am about my cats that are used to the idea of cars.

 

[VelcroSky]

I've had indoor cats my whole life and none of them ever looked like they are dying to get outside. They never make a move for the door when I open it. They don't know a life outside and I don't think they miss what they don't know. Just this past week, my girlfriend's front door was blown open by the wind (needs repair) while she was out. When she came home, both cats were home. Seems they don't mind being indoor cats. The indoors is their territory and they feel safe there. I make sure they have plenty of stimuli to keep their lives enriched and they are good.

Would I ever lecture or get up on my soap box if a client brought in an outdoor cat? Of course not, but if they asked me my opinion, I would give it to them straight forward and point out that it's not the only opinion out there. That's why they ask, because they know as professionals, we've put a lot of time into considering such things, but I would never insinuate that my opinions are the be-all end-all.

 

[Bill59]

So here we go, I'm going to say it- I think it's unnatural to force a cat to live indoors all its life.

It's also unnatural to spay and neuter cats. And vaccinate them. And feed them cat food. And ... well you get the idea.

 

[Azawakh]

This is all I was originally trying to say. For my cats, I can't imagine keeping them indoors only. it shouldn't be an "all cats should be indoors" statement. It all depends.

And as for life expectancy, if your cat is going to be an outdoor cat in any way, there are of course precautions (like vaccines, etc.).

It all depends on where you live and your cats. If you live in a place that has a problem with cats and wildlife, make an informed decision. If your cats are not hunters, there shouldn't be a problem with wildlife.

Also, just from my experience, my indoor/outdoor cats and my fiance's outdoor cats have never had a problem with traffic or any of that. My brother's indoor cats constantly try to sneak out and often run out into the middle of the road and stop. I'm more worried about them than I am about my cats that are used to the idea of cars.

I agree with Dyachei. I am also not discounting the impact that feral/wildcats have on wildlife populations nor am I saying it should be ignored. I am saying that the impact should not be misrepresented particularly depending on location. I would not tell a client in New England that letting their cats out is going to destroy the local wildlife populations. Furthermore cats are one of many foreign species that are hurting wildlife. In Baja, CA and perhaps other regions where they are having a real impact I would counsel my clients to keep there cats indoors because there is real threat. I would not make blanket statements about all cats across the country.

 

[philomycus]

I have the solution! Elimate humans. All species (except domesticated) would do better.

 

[VelcroSky]

Wherever they may be, I hope those outdoor cats don't try and pounce upon the squirrel in philomycus's avatar. They'd have another thing comin'.

 

[philomycus]

Wherever they may be, I hope those outdoor cats don't try and pounce upon the squirrel in philomycus's avatar. They'd have another thing comin'.

Heck yes! LOL

 

[KittenKiller]

It's a huge issue. If you want to hear a rant, bring up outdoor cats to a wildlife veterinarian. The American Bird Conservatory along with a number of bird and wildlife organizations has a large campaign to educate cat owners that cats be kept indoors http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/

I understand this may be an issue where there are protected or endangered birds, but where I live, I see about 1000 sparrows to any other kind of bird. I say kill the sparrows!

 

[pathognomonic]

I too had indoor/outdoor cats growing up. I never had one hit by a car. That being said, now I'm a veterinarian and have been in practice for more than a few years...I would never let a cat outdoors and I think that anyone who does is asking for heartache. A cat that has never been outside has no desire to go outside. As for cats that have been "outside cats" and now want to go out, I ask "Your kids would rather eat candy all day, stay up 'til midnight and cut school...do you let them?". In modern society (and traffic) I think letting a cat outside is at best neglect, at worst cruelty.

(flame suit on...I don't agree that being an empathetic practitioner requires me to have no opinion on choices that clients make)

 

[dyachei]

I too had indoor/outdoor cats growing up. I never had one hit by a car. That being said, now I'm a veterinarian and have been in practice for more than a few years...I would never let a cat outdoors and I think that anyone who does is asking for heartache. A cat that has never been outside has no desire to go outside.

What about cats that were adopted from the street (which I might add, is something we want people to do)? Cats that know outside and desire it? I really don't disagree with you, but I feel like everything should be taken on a case by case basis. Not all locations are the same, and traffic differs from place to place. I think someone before mentioned living in VT, where there wasn't much traffic. Maybe in your area you wouldn't let cats outdoors, but it's ok in some places.

I wouldn't compare it to candy either. I'm not sure, but I know a lot of people have issues if they don't go outside, do animals have the same issues? It's almost cruel to not let cats used to being outdoors out.

 

[VelcroSky]

What about cats that were adopted from the street (which I might add, is something we want people to do)? Cats that know outside and desire it?

One of my cats was taken off the street and she doesn't seem any worse off. I have also known of several cases where people have made their outdoor cats indoor only. They all adjusted over time. Sure, there may be cases where a cat goes completely neurotic if it is used to roaming the wild, but I'm just saying that that's not always the case.

 

[Bill59]

You might be interested in Tony Buffington's indoor cat initiative, a program to enrich the environment of indoor cats.

http://vet.osu.edu/indoorcat

 

[OceanAngel]

The two are not mutually exclusive. Just because the greatest threat to wildlife is habitat destruction, does not mean that we should therefore neglect all other threats until the top one is eliminated. That's like saying since heart disease is the number one killer of women that we should ignore all other diseases, like cancer, until we've solved the heart disease problem.

I appreciate what you said here VelcroSky.

I, too, have an indoor only cat. She and her brother were both feral and both have adapted to the indoor life just fine. My parents have her brother and while living in the North woods of Wisconsin (way away from cars or anything) they would let him wander near the house while they were outdoors. The first time he caught a chipmunk they decided to make him indoor only and he has been ever since. He never tries to escape and he surely knows what is beyond those doors. Ever since I got his sister she has been completely indoors. In fact, one time she got outside by accident and just sat by the door crying and she was only out there less than five minutes. Both of these cats know what life outside is like, but they have both adapted just fine. Saying that a domesticated animal to be only indoors is unnatural is not correct. We are not talking about wildlife when we refer to domestic cats and dogs. They are already genetically comprimised if not immunologically. Sure they maintain certain instincts, hence keeping them away from wildlife, but this is why keeping these animals indoors is okay is because they are domestic animals.

 

[silverelf]

What about cats that were adopted from the street (which I might add, is something we want people to do)? Cats that know outside and desire it? I really don't disagree with you, but I feel like everything should be taken on a case by case basis. Not all locations are the same, and traffic differs from place to place. I think someone before mentioned living in VT, where there wasn't much traffic. Maybe in your area you wouldn't let cats outdoors, but it's ok in some places.

I wouldn't compare it to candy either. I'm not sure, but I know a lot of people have issues if they don't go outside, do animals have the same issues? It's almost cruel to not let cats used to being outdoors out.

one of my friends took in a stray and it has never left the house. Jake knows what a lucky situation he fell into, and I don't think he'll ever go outside again. She leaves her slider open in the summer and he lies down in front of the door and suns himself.

If you really believe in letting a cat out, then do it safely. You can build enclosures for them, you can put some cats on leashes....there are other options then just letting them out and saying "fend for yourself! good luck!"

 

[ShelterGirl]

FWIW, 2 of my cats were strays and they have zero urge to go outside. Guess I must feed them well or something

 

[JIKJen124]

The screened-in back porch is as close to "outside" as my cat will ever get...

 

[PdxYOSHI]

Even if you try to consider letting a cat outside on a case by case basis, there will still always be risks. If you don't live on or near busy streets where cats could get hit by cars then you likely live in a more rural area where cats could do damage to other wildlife or other wildlife could do damage to them. Coyotes and dogs can be major threats to cats in rural areas and its not like these animals are only confined to rural areas either. In addition, cats are not as likely to stay on their owners property and then you, as the owner, may be violating some city ordinances. All these things in addition to the abscessed wounds, fleas, and assorted communicable diseases seems like it out to be reason enough to keep your cat indoors. But as the owner it is your responsibility to make the best decisions for your animals. But thats just my opinion.

 

[wildfocus]

or other wildlife could do damage to them. Coyotes and dogs can be major threats to cats in rural areas and its not like these animals are only confined to rural areas either.

even in a big city like seattle, cats get plucked from the streets by coyotes.

 

[bakaduin]

Sure cats can hurt wildlife populations of birds thats just a simple fact. That being said, cats aren't the first animal brought into a new environment by humans. Plenty of populations have been devastated by new species far worse than what cats have done. That being said, if people want to have their cats outdoors thats their choice and their priority. Yes it increases the chances of illness or accidental death but if a pet owner is responsible about vaccinations and such he can minimize this. It is obviously safer for a cat to be indoors but that is only one way to house your animal. It isnt the only way.

 

[Azawakh]

Sure cats can hurt wildlife populations of birds thats just a simple fact. That being said, cats aren't the first animal brought into a new environment by humans. Plenty of populations have been devastated by new species far worse than what cats have done. That being said, if people want to have their cats outdoors thats their choice and their priority. Yes it increases the chances of illness or accidental death but if a pet owner is responsible about vaccinations and such he can minimize this. It is obviously safer for a cat to be indoors but that is only one way to house your animal. It isnt the only way.

Bakaduin. You have a beautiful mind.

 

[AuburnPreVet]

If any of you have access to old copies of Javma.. there is an excellent article on the issue of outdoors cats and their impact on wildlife etc...:

Free-Roaming and Feral Cats - Their Impact on Wildlife and Human Beings
JAVMA Vol 212 No. 2, January 15, 1998
Dr. Gary Patronek, VMD, PhD

I only have a hard copy of it -- If I can find a link to an online copy I'll post it... It's worth reading.

Edit: I'm amazed by how many of you are OK with outdoor "pet" cats. If we are going to take the opinion that "there is more than one way to do anything", lets apply that more broadly and see how quickly we get to the conclusion of "but, why risk it?" Some means are less safe/ideal than others, regardless of the topic.

With that said - feral cats are an entirely different issue, and I suppose there are semi-feral pet cats which would be a "gray-area"...

 

[wildfocus]

Sure cats can hurt wildlife populations of birds thats just a simple fact. That being said, cats aren't the first animal brought into a new environment by humans. Plenty of populations have been devastated by new species far worse than what cats have done.

yeah, and we try to eradicate those species. if we did that with a companion animal like the cat though, people would be up in arms... but on a broader note, how can any of you possibly think it is OK for cats to kill native birds - that we should just take it as part of survival of the fittest? i mean, is that what you really believe? birds in north america did not co-evolve with cats to build up the physical or behavioral defenses against cats. so you are saying, so be it??

 

[giles]

Just wondering, does the study quoted below (and/or the others quoted in a previous post) provide conclusive evidence that predation by free-roaming pet cats alone (as opposed to feral cats) has a major detrimental impact on rare bird species?

If that were the case, that would be the strongest argument to me for keeping pet cats indoors. I am a little skeptical that pet cats really do that much damage to rare bird populations (but am willing to be persuaded if I can see data to the contrary). I would have thought that the feral cat population does much more damage, and I am all in favor of controlling this population through wildlife management techniques.

The flipside is that cats can also be very useful for controlling pest populations. I vaguely remember an (admittedly old) study that surveyed cat droppings and concluded they mainly ate rodents not birds. Makes sense in that rodents are a lot easier to catch. I know that my cat catches a whole lot of rats and mice, and the occasional rabbit, but I have only ever seen him catch a bird once (not a rare one).

I think the health argument for keeping cats indoors is a bit weak (depending on where you live, of course). E.g. surely an indoor cat is at greater risk of obesity and associated diseases. Plus a cat that does like to go outside will not be happy if confined indoors all the time (psychological health issue). The way I see it, unless you live in a really cat-dangerous area, why not give your moggy the choice? If they really don't want to go outside, they won't anyway. But if they do, they will be happier.

Just my 2 cents worth...

If any of you have access to old copies of Javma.. there is an excellent article on the issue of outdoors cats and their impact on wildlife etc...:

Free-Roaming and Feral Cats - Their Impact on Wildlife and Human Beings
JAVMA Vol 212 No. 2, January 15, 1998
Dr. Gary Patronek, VMD, PhD

I only have a hard copy of it -- If I can find a link to an online copy I'll post it... It's worth reading.

Edit: I'm amazed by how many of you are OK with outdoor "pet" cats. If we are going to take the opinion that "there is more than one way to do anything", lets apply that more broadly and see how quickly we get to the conclusion of "but, why risk it?" Some means are less safe/ideal than others, regardless of the topic.

With that said - feral cats are an entirely different issue, and I suppose there are semi-feral pet cats which would be a "gray-area"...

 

[VelcroSky]

(Deleted because I decided to not be so damn sarcastic)

 

[CookieBear]

I feel bad when my cats have their eyes glued to the window screen, bird-watching, their tails twitching expectantly, because I know they'd love to be outside, but, where I come from, outdoor cats become dead cats sooner rather than later.

I agree with the issue that roaming cats kill native birds. I've known the Audobon Society to be very proactive about educating and advocating against outdoor cats, as well as some local wildlife organizations that I'm personally familiar with: Bowman's Wildflower Preserve in New Hope, PA, and the Raptor Trust, in NJ.

I'm a native plant and wildlife fan, so there's my bias right there.

Situations can vary place to place, but in my opinion, the risks far outweigh the benefits as a whole. When my cats go 'out', it's on a leash and harness, and I'm right there with them, in my fenced backyard.

Too many cars, other animals, disease, parasites and unknowns for me to deal with, to let my two roam around.

There's a Himalayan that the folks diagonally behind my house let out ALL the time (except in the winter). I've seen the cat poo right smack in the middle of my neighbor's back lawn in broad daylight, and I couldn't help but laugh (does he know no shame?) - but I've also had to shriek my head off at Cookie when the cat's snuck into my backyard and Cookie's instincts kick in and she gives chase. I've yelled at this cat to chase him from the street when I've seen him rolling around on the asphalt sunning himself. The cat hisses at me from a distance, but I would still feel terrible if I ever find him someday dead. Other neighbors have told me that they've mentioned all this to the owners, but apparently it doesn't make a difference to them.

 

[thesonofdarwin]

Growing up, all of our cats were indoor/outdoor - mostly outdoor, but anytime they came to the door to get let in, they were. Especially during the winter they preferred indoors. Vaccines, etc - not a single one ever died of a disease and we had at least 7 cats.

Since then, my eyes have opened to the type of society we live in. 3 of those cats were purposefully shot, 2 were hit by cars. This all over the course of at least 10 years which is, perhaps, a good ratio to some. What should I feel about my cats that were shot or hit by cars? Personally, I felt neglect. It was something that I could have easily prevented, but didn't (and couldn't at the time as I was just a kid).

Car hits are not always an instant death - just last week my ex called me bawling because a cat that had been hit on the road was flopping around trying to get off the road. After getting there, I realized it's chance of survival was nill, but it was definitely still alive. All I could imagine was one of MY cats on the road, half alive trying to struggle off the road at a vain attempt of survival. Heartbreaking indeed and ample reason for me to continue to keep mine inside.

Furthermore, not all car hits are accidental. Many types of people will go out of their way to hit an animal crossing the road. Another example, and believe me I wish I was making these up. Yesterday I went to my father's for the holiday. He lives in a small town, the most traffic you see an hour is two amish buggies and the occasional car. I was heading home on one of the back roads and noticed a bird (juvenile) on the side of the road - near enough the side that it probably wouldn't get hit by accident, but it may have strayed further on, so I stopped alongside the road just behind it so I could move it a few feet to the field. Ugh, a car coming - so I stand near it off the road (no more than 2 feet away, mind you). He has to get over anyways to get around my car anyway. But instead, he sees what I'm doing and after passing my car jerks his car over as fast as he could, almost hitting me, but running over the bird.

Needless to say he has been reported to the police for his attempts that endangered MY life (god forbid he be held accountable for the bird) - but these type of people aren't rare, people swerve and speed up to hit animals on a daily basis.

Personally, I'm accountable for my animals 100% just as I would be any future children. If my dog bites someone, it's my ass. I'm also accountable for their lives and if I wasn't I don't deserve to have animals.

Meh, sorry if this sounded like a rant about keeping your cats inside, that's absolutely not true. I take my cats outside, under my supervision, in our fenced-in yard frequently.

I just wish more people would realize that when you volunteer to take care of another life, you are accountable for what happens to that life. If it gets by a car, it's your fault. If it gets shot, it's your fault. To play the other side, if it gets electrocuted because you have bare wires, it's your fault. If it gets in a dryer while doing laundry and no one realizes, it's your fault. No one forced us to take command of these lives, but in doing so we have the responsibility and accountability for anything that happens while under our command.

 

[philomycus]

No one forced us to take command of these lives, but in doing so we have the responsibility and accountability for anything that happens while under our command.

well said

 

[kate_g]

I agree with the issue that roaming cats kill native birds.

It's gotta depend on the kind of native birds though... There must be a dozen outdoor (or at least partially outdoor) cats on my block, and yet there are enough songbirds that one really has trouble hearing oneself think during daylight hours. The birds sit on rooftops, phone wires, or high in trees, and nest in dense shrubbery or under building eaves... and don't seem to be threatened by cats in the least. (I'm not saying that none of these cats ever brings home a trophy, I just mean that the songbird population is *very* healthy in this suburban area, and that cats just can't be contributing more predation pressure than hawks would be in a more rural environment.)

I would believe that ground feeders and birds that nest lower in trees are more susceptible, just because they spend more time where the cats are. But again, most of the ground feeders here are sparrows and mourning doves, which can hardly be said to be threatened populations.

So anyway, I guess I'm weighing in on the not-black-and-white side of the argument. If you live in an area with threatened populations of rare ground-feeding or low-nesting birds, OK, cats are dangerous. But I don't think the blanket "cats should never be allowed outdoors" statements are justified. To make a generalization of my own, I'm just not a fan of broad generalizations.

(FWIW my cats are indoor-only, because cats do not win fights with traffic or raccoons, both of which exist here in abundance. I do wish I lived somewhere I felt comfortable letting them outside, though - or had the financial wherewithal to build them a safe enclosure. Just because I think they would enjoy fresh air and sunshine, and to be perfectly honest, I think the opportunity to hunt would be good enrichment.)