Vet Residency

[Ginkneephur]

Hi everyone,

This may be a dumb question but is a residency required to practice? If so, how many years?

Thanks!

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[verbal_kint]

nope. you can practice after four years. however, most people will do an internship to get their bearings before doing things on their own. Others will do residencies to specialize in a certain area.

 

[wishes]

As verbal_kint said, a residency is not required to practice after completing veterinary school (unlike human medical school).
Some veterinary school graduates do internships which, as I understand, are typically two years. A residency can follow an internship. If you complete a residency you are eligible to take boards in whatever area you are specializing in.
The length of the residency depends on the field you are specializing in, but I believe that they are usually four years in length, including the internship.

 

[chickenboo]

Internships are generally one year, with residencies usually 2-3 years (after completing the internship). While it's fairly common for new grads to complete internships, my impression was that more new grads still start in private practice, rather than doing an internship. If you want more info., check out www.virmp.org; it's the website for the match.

 

[LynnKat]

I think lots of people go into practice right away (pay off those loans), but those who want to specialize or who want to take another year to put everything together do internships. Residencies are for those who want to be boarded specialists (IM, Rads, Surgery, EM/Crit Care, Zoo, Oncology, Cardio, etc).

My friends who are doing internships are all in one year programs, though I did know someone who followed a rotating internship year with a surgery internship before matching as a resident. Also, all of them seem to be going for residency programs that are 3 years long, taking the boards at the end of third year.

ETA: I think chickenboo and I posted this at the same time and she basically said the same thing 🙂

 

[Ginkneephur]

Ok this might be a weird question too but do VET schools accept MCAT scores in place of the GRE? I'm taking the MCAT April 22nd but I'm thinking about switching to VET med. 🙂

 

[chris03333]

Ok this might be a weird question too but do VET schools accept MCAT scores in place of the GRE? I'm taking the MCAT April 22nd but I'm thinking about switching to VET med. 🙂

Depends on the school. I believe there are very few in the US that will take MCAT. Most want GRE (and a couple also require GRE biology subtest). Look at www.aavmc.org for school specific requirements.

 

[wishes]

I took both the GRE and the MCAT and applied to both medical school and veterinary school at the same time. It can be done, but I would not really recommend it.
If you are not seriously considering medical school then there is no reason to take the MCAT as it is a very difficult test, which requires alot of study time (which I'm sure that you now know).
I can say from experience that the general GRE is much easier than the MCAT, although unfortunately your MCAT studying will not help you out as much for the general GRE as you would think. I did not take the biology subject GRE, as most schools do not require it.
Even if you take the MCAT, I would encourage you to take the general GRE also, if you do apply to veterinary school. As was mentioned by chris03333, very few schools accept the MCAT.
If you are wavering between medical school and veterinary school, I can totally sympathize with you because I have been in your shoes although I have now committed to veterinary school and will be beginning this fall. If you have any specific questions about making the choice between the two careers, please feel free to ask me.
Good luck on the MCAT!!

 

[frozen_canadian]

What convinced you to go with vet med Wishes?

 

[weeziefive]

As for internships I know that pathology residencies do not require you do an internship before hand, but there are other residencies that require you get some experience.

My pathologist at work suggested I do an internship after I finish school to brush up on clinical skills and then proceed to a residency if that is what I still desired. Dont forget not all residencies pay well. A residency in pathology is around 25K a year. Its sad. But worth it.

 

[HorseyVet]

As for internships I know that pathology residencies do not require you do an internship before hand, but there are other residencies that require you get some experience.

My pathologist at work suggested I do an internship after I finish school to brush up on clinical skills and then proceed to a residency if that is what I still desired. Dont forget not all residencies pay well. A residency in pathology is around 25K a year. Its sad. But worth it.

lol...I thought they all paid something like that...at least all the ones I looked at (large animal/equine) paid around there....I think the idea is that b/c you work 80+ hours a week and sleep in stall at the hospital, you have really low living expenses.

 

[chickenboo]

I think pretty much all academic internships pay about $25K and academic residencies pay $25-35K. Internships and residencies will sometimes pay more...I've seen some internships (small animal) in SoCal that pay $30-35K. That probably has something to do with cost of living, though. Unfortunately, I think it's more that you're a source of cheap labor than that your living expenses are low...at most small animal places, anyway, you're responsible for your own housing. And don't forget those student loan payments! 🙂

 

[weeziefive]

The small animal hospital I also work at pays their residents around 90K (that may be with commission also). But it also is a refferal hospital and clients bills get to be in the extreme thousands!

 

[HorseyVet]

The small animal hospital I also work at pays their residents around 90K (that may be with commission also). But it also is a refferal hospital and clients bills get to be in the extreme thousands!

Maybe my numbers are old. I do remember someone at a talk doing an equine surgery residency said she made around 28,000.
Seeing how colic surgery often starts at 8,000....I'm doubting the cilent bills themselves are the issue. Large animal surgeries have an incredibly high overhead relative to small animal, so the profit margin may be the deciding factor.
Oh well...I'm certainly not in this game for the money.

 

[mokadet]

The link that someone referenced earlier in this thread pertaining to residency matches actually lists salaries. From a cursory glace they all seemed to be around $25 - 30K. I even found an internship that was unpaid!

 

[wishes]

What convinced you to go with vet med Wishes?

Well, since you ask, let me start out by saying my considering both veterinary and human medicine as possible professions had nothing to do with the pay scale differential between the two, although you would be amazed at how many people assume that.

Honestly, veterinary school has been my passion for many years, as I have always loved working with animals. I did not begin considering human allopathic medicine until my freshman year in college when members of my immediate family experienced some extreme illnesses that continue to be ongoing. When I realized the impact that physicians were having (and continue to have) on my personal life, I began to think seriously about how wonderful it would be to provide this same support for other people.

The timing of these family illnesses occurred simultaneously with my realization of one frustration with veterinary medicine that I still have not fully resolved, and that is that clients who cannot afford proper veterinary care will continue to be a restriction for the profession. In addition, I have always had a personal desire to help the poor and needy populous, and I cannot help but recognize that many veterinarians make their profit from people who not only own animals, but who can afford to pay for their care. These people are often in the middle to upper crust of society. I do not mean for anyone to take this the wrong way, as I now know that veterinarians are an integral part of society and that opportunities for veterinarians in to work in underprivileged areas all over the world are increasing, however in many ways I began to feel that my desires could be better met through human medicine. Considerations such as these made the transition from veterinary to human medicine initially seem to be a natural progression.

For a time I also struggled with the misguided attitude that veterinarians are not “real” doctors, and, while I do not at all agree with this, nor did I ever, I did not want to forever resent my chosen profession because of a foolish stigma. Now I encourage anyone else who has also considered this difficulty with veterinary medicine to disregard it and move on, as this way of thinking is truly erroneous. Furthermore, I believe that the public is becoming increasingly aware of the important efforts of veterinarians in our society.

Last, but not least, I think that some ascetic tendency in my personality felt that I should choose the route of human medicine, rather than veterinary medicine, simply because I knew that human medicine would require far more self-sacrifice on my part than would pursuing my true dream of becoming a veterinarian.

As it stands now, I have been fortunate, receiving many acceptances to veterinary school, but not yet one to a medical school (although I am still waiting to hear back from several). I know that my futility in human medicine is not a result of academic inadequacies, so I can only speculate that medical admissions committees can see what I know to be true in that I am not truly passionate about becoming a physician. I am willing to admit too the possibility that I am disenchanted with what appears to be my failure to succeed in the human medical route 🙂 .

Not profound really, but since you asked, there you go. I guess when all is said and done down the road I see myself much happier as veterinarian, rather than a physician.

 

[HorseyVet]

I was very close to applying to both med and vet schools as well. I very well might next year if I do not get accepted anywhere this year, although I hope that won't be an issue.

Like Wishes, I initially thought that I would not want to deal with the fact that lack of resources or competence of the client would cause many animals to be euthanized instead of treated. At the time I was pretty much raised by those I was doing research with to do a PhD/MD and was essentially indoctrinated that the only option was human medicine. Although all of my extra time was spent with animals, it wasn't with vets, so I think I just didn't see it as crisply as I did being an MD. Also, I was a little of a technology junkie and wanted to do something where I could always use the latest and greatest gizmo.

I really have a (this will sound corny) drive to help humanity and living things, so my plan was to help people through medicine and to use the money to help animals (setting up programs, etc). I felt that medicine was the only effective way to really impact an extant benefit on mankind.

Through various things that happened I began to realize (again this will sound cliche) that I was remarkably good with animals and sort of felt in part that it was a diservice not to work more closely with them and that by doing so I could still aid humans in the process. I remember when I told a few people that I made the switch and they were all "duh, we were wondering when you'd figure it out"

Additionally, by and large, the crop of pre-med students are frightenly awful people. I remember sitting in a class one day and thinking "I cannot work with these people the rest of my life." I realize, like everything else, not all are bad, but the dynamics of who becomes a doctor has changed and there are a lot of people I know that will be doctors who I wouldn't even let babysit a goldfish.

Anyway, veterinary is way better. I really doubt I could see myself doing anything else.

 

[chris03333]

FWIW I think you both made the right decision too... No way I want to spend all day around sick people, they're grumpy and obnoxious - at least I know I'm grumpy and obnoxious when I'm sick... 🙂

👍 me too!

 

[PAThbrd]

In case you are wondering what happened to the other posts in this thread, you can find them in the new "Competition in Pre-reqs" thread.

 

[sikkvet1]

Hi everyone!

Does anyone know for sure if an internship is required for specialty residency? or is it just recommended?
Thank you

 

[ajs513]

Hi everyone!

Does anyone know for sure if an internship is required for specialty residency? or is it just recommended?
Thank you

Depends entirely on the program

 

[sikkvet1]

Depends entirely on the program

thank you.

 

[KCgophervet]

Hi everyone!

Does anyone know for sure if an internship is required for specialty residency? or is it just recommended?
Thank you

Depends on the specialty as well. It's not even recommended for some specialties/programs (like lab animal for most programs).

 

[sikkvet1]

Depends on the specialty as well. It's not even recommended for some specialties/programs (like lab animal for most programs).

Thank you!

 

[twelvetigers]

Whoah, I wasn't expecting to see some of those usernames. Old school...

 

[Ashgirl]

Hi everyone!

Does anyone know for sure if an internship is required for specialty residency? or is it just recommended?
Thank you

As others have said, it depends on which specialty. Some have a strict requirement for one, some don't need it at all, and some might even need an additional specialty internship afterward to get into that residency. It all depends on which specialty and your individual needs/application.

What are you currently interested in?

 

[ajs513]

thank you.

Another thing that hasn’t specifically said yet, there are residencies that require EITHER an internship or relevant experience. So if you want to do an internal medicine residency, for example, and you have several years of relevant experience, you can bypass the internship requirement. But if you’re coming right out of vet school you’ll need an internship (usually rotating) to qualify. This is just an example of when it’s not cut and dry that you do or don’t need an internship.

 

[allygator13]

Another thing that hasn’t specifically said yet, there are residencies that require EITHER an internship or relevant experience. So if you want to do an internal medicine residency, for example, and you have several years of relevant experience, you can bypass the internship requirement. But if you’re coming right out of vet school you’ll need an internship (usually rotating) to qualify. This is just an example of when it’s not cut and dry that you do or don’t need an internship.

Yes, most people say three years of clinical experience (GP, ER, etc.) as a veterinarian is the equivalent of a rotating internship.

 

[SocialStigma]

Yes, most people say three years of clinical experience (GP, ER, etc.) as a veterinarian is the equivalent of a rotating internship.

It will depend on the specialty, but some specialties will not consider an applicant without a rotating internship, even if they have multiple years in practice. I have never heard of anyone being accepted into a surgery residency without a rotating internship, and I know someone who applied to a residency after 5 years in small animal GP/ER who still had to then go the internship route. For surgery in particular, having experience in GP/ER is actually a detriment because then the applicants may have picked up "bad habits" and are less amenable to being taught good surgical habits and skills when they have already been doing surgery a certain way for years on their own.

 

[VetMedSurvivalGuide]

For surgery in particular, having experience in GP/ER is actually a detriment because then the applicants may have picked up "bad habits" and are less amenable to being taught good surgical habits and skills when they have already been doing surgery a certain way for years on their own.

The above is totally dependent on the specialists at the institution and their preference of candidates. There are residency programs (surgery or something else) that will basically only take applicants that went the traditional route (vet school, internship, +/- specialty internship). Some don't even want anyone that has done a specialty internship for the reason mentioned above.

As for a candidate being less amenable to learn good surgical and medical practices, it also totally depends on the individual. I've worked with multiple surgery residents that were in practice for years and came back for residency and are great surgeons. On the other hand, I've also seen and worked with many interns that are resistant to learning a better and correct way of doing certain things. Bottom line, if you are to be an intern or a resident, take the opportunity to learn from your various mentors and become a better doctor by combining the best they have to offer.

 

[SocialStigma]

The above is totally dependent on the specialists at the institution and their preference of candidates. There are residency programs (surgery or something else) that will basically only take applicants that went the traditional route (vet school, internship, +/- specialty internship). Some don't even want anyone that has done a specialty internship for the reason mentioned above.

As for a candidate being less amenable to learn good surgical and medical practices, it also totally depends on the individual. I've worked with multiple surgery residents that were in practice for years and came back for residency and are great surgeons. On the other hand, I've also seen and worked with many interns that are resistant to learning a better and correct way of doing certain things. Bottom line, if you are to be an intern or a resident, take the opportunity to learn from your various mentors and become a better doctor by combining the best they have to offer.

Definitely agree that it is a preference of the faculty members/institution, I should have worded it differently to say GP/ER experience "may" be considered a detriment when it comes to matching to a residency position.