Vet School Applications and Social Media Networks

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Cypress

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A friend of mine recently changed her last name on facebook - so I asked her why she did it - she said that she changed it for med school application privacy. She said she didn't have anything really to hide just that she wanted to make sure she was being judged on her application and not what could be found on her facebook profile.

Has anyone heard of this as being a concern with vet school applications?

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I have definitely heard of things put on facebook coming back to bite people. But it depends on your privacy settings and who you are friends with. My profile is only viewable by people that I am friends with. People can search for me and find me, but they won't be able to see anything but my name and picture. Obviously that needs to be a presentable profile picture. However, some people's settings allow random people to see a lot more. The bigger thing I've heard is people being friends with bosses and coworkers and then making derogatory comments against them or other people in the workplace or calling in "sick" to work/school and then commenting about their awesome day at sea world or something like that. So, basically, a good rule is to not put anything on facebook that you don't want the whole world seeing. It never goes away.
 
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I think it is always important to be wary of what you post on facebook but is important to keep a closer eye during the admissions process.

Do adcoms who are going through applications have the time or the curiosity to look us up online? Maybe, maybe not.

However, as a future professional, your facebook page should be able to be looked at by any future client and leave them comfortable with you caring for their animals. I consider this regardless of what my privacy settings are. Does this mean I'm all pomp and circumstance on my page and don't put anything goofy or fun? No. However, you will not find pictures of me drinking at a crazy party or wearing any clothing choices that are questionable by others.

During the application process, make your profile picture a professional close up photo that highlights you as mature and competent adult....

First Impression is the Best Impression, right? 🙂

Just my $0.02 - take what you want. I'm not an adcom....
 
I know a potential boss googled me once between 1st and 2nd interviews - before I had good privacy settings and he was able to see almost all my pictures on facebook - after he told me what my husband looked like I was creeped out enough to change my settings pretty tight - not having ever considered this as a problem before.

I've always been cautious of what I post of fb anyway so I'm good there - was just curious if they would actually take the time to do something like that.
 
Someone asked if our Facebook profiles were checked during the admissions processes and they said no. That being said, their advice was to make sure that nothing on your Facebook was something you would object to having posted on the front page of the newspaper the next morning.
 
As a business student this is something my professors constantly reiterate, tight privacy settings are NOT enough. Organizations have the ability to get into a private account in seconds, and have been known to do so. I went through my Facebook and cleaned it up before pressing submit.

Interesting Infographic on the subject.
 
For the hell of it I reviewed my FB info from the point of view of a potential employer or adcom and I am embarrassed to say it was boring as hell. 😳

At worst I have made some questionable comments on others posts, but nothing that would be worth hiding. 😴

oh well....
 
I might just share that article.
I wish my previous minimum-wage employer used Facebook to screen applicants. Maybe I wouldn't have had to work with sooo many drunk, uninterested, lazy, HS students which sold drugs out of the store. :laugh:
I have mine set so that people can search me, but they cannot see my photos, status updates, interests or jobs (basically all they can see is my name, pic, where I am from and where I went to school). I also have relatives, previous employers, and staff from my undergrad on my Facebook, which causes me to think about what I write about. I also cleaned up my albums and I untag photos of me that I find embarrassing/unflattering/etc. I STILL wonder if potential employers can get through and what they will think of me. As of lately, I have debated whether something as simple as complaining as complaining about the transit schedule is enough to shed me in a negative light. 😕.

I will admit that in high school, a few coworkers and I caused a general note to be posted on watching what you say on Facebook. I had a comment in a group passed from a coworker/friend to a supervisor to the boss. As soon as I saw the note, I went in and talked to the boss and apologized for my behaviour. I ended up in tears because I was so embarrassed by what I had done. The boss did not realize I had taken the note so seriously and tried to laugh it off to make me feel better. It ended well, thank goodness, but I am still embarrassed that I let that happen to me at 17 and I am determined not to let that EVER happen again. If I remember correctly, I got caught up in discussing wages with a friend of mine (worked at the same company, different store) with a thousand other company employees as a group and I appeared negatively when I mentioned that my store seems to be the only one where people do not get raises after working there X number of months. I had thought that if my friend was doing it and a thousand other people were doing it that it was not a big deal. But yes... it is. I promptly left the group when I read the note, apologized and avoided posting anything about work for the time being.
 
I didn't change my name but I did double check my privacy settings to make sure my photos/wall posts/info (other than the basic sex, network, school etc) wasn't visible to non-friends. And I made sure to keep my profile picture tame (ie. not one where I'm clearly at a club/party).
 
As a business student this is something my professors constantly reiterate, tight privacy settings are NOT enough. Organizations have the ability to get into a private account in seconds, and have been known to do so. I went through my Facebook and cleaned it up before pressing submit.

Interesting Infographic on the subject.

That infographic has nothing to do with organizations having the ability to get into private accounts... which I'd personally be really curious to see information on.

And today I learned my profile is really boring from the public view.
 
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I deactivated my facebook awhile ago just so I'd spend my time procrastinating on more useful things (hi, SDN!!).

Now that I think of some of the things that wound up on there, it's probably for the best.
 
I deactivated my facebook awhile ago just so I'd spend my time procrastinating on more useful things (hi, SDN!!).

Now that I think of some of the things that wound up on there, it's probably for the best.

Good thinking!! 👍
 
Being a much older person, I never had a Facebook page or participated in it. I feel like I'm more of a private person than most anyway. I never really understood the fascination of the whole thing frankly. Why would we want to advertise so much about ourselves to so many people? I just don't get it. I know, I know probably a lot of your parents do it and everything. I guess it's just me being my usual rebel self or something. Anyway, even if I did have a Facebook page it would just make me look like the boring old, non-partying person I am. I'm sure it would have some of my political rants, though. Maybe someday I'll be forced to do it or I'll be left behind by the rest of the world.
 
Everyone has different reasons for having a FB page or not having a FB page. One of my profs recently created a FB account after years of boycotting it because he was tired of hearing things from his wife, who had a FB account and saw this stuff online. :laugh:. Some people say it is a waste of time and do not get it. I see where they are coming from. I think I originally signed up because I wanted to keep in touch with my friends who live in different parts of NA. I think it is cool to be able to message them, chat with them and see their pictures all in one place. Now FB has become kind of a time-killer. I check it for the sake of something to do, like when I am standing in a long line at the grocery store or when I am waiting for the bus. Sad, I know.

Right this moment, I started a rebellion concerning the sucky public transit services at my undergrad institution. Oops. 🙄. Well, only good should come out of that. :laugh:.

Oh Facebook. Cannot live with you, cannot live without you. We have a love/hate relationship.
 
Being a much older person, I never had a Facebook page or participated in it. I feel like I'm more of a private person than most anyway. I never really understood the fascination of the whole thing frankly. Why would we want to advertise so much about ourselves to so many people? I just don't get it. I know, I know probably a lot of your parents do it and everything. I guess it's just me being my usual rebel self or something. Anyway, even if I did have a Facebook page it would just make me look like the boring old, non-partying person I am. I'm sure it would have some of my political rants, though. Maybe someday I'll be forced to do it or I'll be left behind by the rest of the world.
I was pretty much in your camp Bisbee, until I started vet school. Then it just felt too bizarre to seem to be the grumpy old technophobe.

Now I mostly post cute/funny pictures of my pets. But it is really useful for communicating with my classmates, and for keeping my sanity while studying.
 
Yeah, I guess I am the grumpy old technophobe. Maybe when/if I get in I'll have to get into it, especially since I wouldn't want to be out of the loop in school!
 
Maybe when/if I get in I'll have to get into it, especially since I wouldn't want to be out of the loop in school!

That's one of the biggest reasons I kept my Facebook. I rarely ever used it and waffled between deleting and keeping it. It's been enormously helpful to be able to connect with classmates over important issues like what professors said about midterm material, etc. I'd probably just delete the thing otherwise.
 
I'm going to go against the consensus here and say that I'm not really concerned about adcoms looking at my facebook. First, it's private except for my name/profile picture, and second, it's a pretty accurate representation of who I am. If a school is going to reject me because I sometimes make jokes in poor taste, I swear fairly regularly, and I constantly profess my love for a seriously hoppy IPA, then that's probably not the school for me. The school for me would be a place that can see that those things make me human, but that there's a lot more to me than bad jokes, bad words, and great beer!
 
I would definitely not assume that some members of the admissions committee don't look at Facebook. Better to be safe than sorry =)
 
I would definitely not assume that some members of the admissions committee don't look at Facebook. Better to be safe than sorry =)

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I do want to add that I agree completely that you shouldn't assume that adcoms don't look. If your Facebook has pictures of you in various states of undress or holding various beverages or it exposes your baby mama drama, might be time to rethink the whole "public profile" thing!
 
I don't know if this was directed at me, but I do want to add that I agree completely that you shouldn't assume that adcoms don't look. If your Facebook has pictures of you in various states of undress or holding various beverages or it exposes your baby mama drama, might be time to rethink the whole "public profile" thing!

Oh no, not directed towards anyone in particular! Just a general statement =)
 
I'm going to go against the consensus here and say that I'm not really concerned about adcoms looking at my facebook. First, it's private except for my name/profile picture, and second, it's a pretty accurate representation of who I am. If a school is going to reject me because I sometimes make jokes in poor taste, I swear fairly regularly, and I constantly profess my love for a seriously hoppy IPA, then that's probably not the school for me. The school for me would be a place that can see that those things make me human, but that there's a lot more to me than bad jokes, bad words, and great beer!

I agree with this 🙂
 
My FB is set to super, duper private. People who do not know me MIGHT be able to find me if they try hard enough and when they do they see my picture and name, nothing else. I did not realize how hard I was to find until the guy at the tattoo company I had my tattoo done at wanted to add me as a friend and he could not find me even typing in my first and last name (and my last name is one of those that if you have that last name you are related to me). My sister actually had to direct him through her facebook page to mine in order for him to add me....so good luck locating me and if you do it is a super boring page...😴

Even still I take my FB page as something that everyone can see even though I know they can't and I have it so that I don't put anything on there that I wouldn't want my grandmother to see (after all she is one of my friends...😍) 😉
 
On my FB page my name is my nick name which is universally known by everyone that knows me, so vet schools couldnt just find me by searching my name. In addition, the email I have listed on facebook is no longer one I use anymore so they couldnt search FB profiles by email addresses. I did not intentionally have it turn out this way due to my desire to be private, just turned out that way.

I really couldnt see vet schools looking at applicants facebook pages, the admissions process is already tedious enough for them to be screening all potential applicant's facebook pages.
 
I'm going to go against the consensus here and say that I'm not really concerned about adcoms looking at my facebook. First, it's private except for my name/profile picture, and second, it's a pretty accurate representation of who I am. If a school is going to reject me because I sometimes make jokes in poor taste, I swear fairly regularly, and I constantly profess my love for a seriously hoppy IPA, then that's probably not the school for me. The school for me would be a place that can see that those things make me human, but that there's a lot more to me than bad jokes, bad words, and great beer!

👍

Absolutely agree.
 
I'm going to go against the consensus here and say that I'm not really concerned about adcoms looking at my facebook. First, it's private except for my name/profile picture, and second, it's a pretty accurate representation of who I am. If a school is going to reject me because I sometimes make jokes in poor taste, I swear fairly regularly, and I constantly profess my love for a seriously hoppy IPA, then that's probably not the school for me. The school for me would be a place that can see that those things make me human, but that there's a lot more to me than bad jokes, bad words, and great beer!

I agree. I used to be really paranoid because I worked at various professional institutions (teaching, research, etc) and had to cover a significant amount of my body so my tattoos were not visible, and I just got tired of hiding myself. My FB photo album still has shots of me shirtless, gut hanging out, with a mic in hand singing in warehouses with all my old bands and piercings/tattoos fully visible. Interestingly, I ended up talking up some shows I played in DC and NYC for a few minutes with an interviewer at Penn since he was a fan of rock music.
 
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I personally didn't care so much about the stupid stuff like immature wall posts, stupid pictures, etc... since I wouldn't want to go to a school that was crusty enough to think that facebooking should allow for a little personal expression that may not always be *professional.*

I did, however, delete pictures that may come off wrong, like playing with wildlife that you couldn't tell was non-releasable, handling rabies vector spp without adequate protection 😱 (stupid, I know... I personally wouldn't accept me either if I saw that). I honestly didn't think anyone would be looking, but I didn't think it could hurt to take those down.
 
This will date me but whatever my intern helped me setup my FB account years ago. I’d given him a hard time for “wasting time” on that weird FB site thing. He brought me up to speed and for fun I created an account. Now I see the benefits of it but I agree you need to be mindful of who can see what. I’ve started to follow a few tech blogs and found some cool uses for FB. I do some rescue work and FB helps me coordinate with people. It also bridged the age gap when I returned to college for my pre-requisites because I could coordinate with my classmates.

I recently had a very cool thing unfold on FB. A lady contacted me about her lost dog. Out of curiosity I created a page for the dog, and started sharing it with everyone I could think of. We ended up with 250LIKS! So many that our local News channel picked up the story and ran a small piece about the lost dog. All of this got its photo out all over town and explaining what a challenge it was to catch the dog because it would run from anyone (puppy mill). The dog was finally caught and returned to the owner after 33days running all over town. Because of the FB page we had folks call in sightings of the dog. It really helped track and finally catch her. Also, during the search other pets were listed and found because so many people were looking for this one dog that they came across others. The group even caught a 5lb stray poodle mix that eventual was adopted by one of the people from the fan group. For me FB provided a platform to coordinate folks, so for that it was great. Did I mention any of this in my application, heck no and my privacy settings are tight :laugh:
 
I recently had a very cool thing unfold on FB. A lady contacted me about her lost dog. Out of curiosity I created a page for the dog, and started sharing it with everyone I could think of. We ended up with 250LIKS! So many that our local News channel picked up the story and ran a small piece about the lost dog. All of this got its photo out all over town and explaining what a challenge it was to catch the dog because it would run from anyone (puppy mill). The dog was finally caught and returned to the owner after 33days running all over town. Because of the FB page we had folks call in sightings of the dog. It really helped track and finally catch her. Also, during the search other pets were listed and found because so many people were looking for this one dog that they came across others. The group even caught a 5lb stray poodle mix that eventual was adopted by one of the people from the fan group. For me FB provided a platform to coordinate folks, so for that it was great. Did I mention any of this in my application, heck no and my privacy settings are tight :laugh:


Very cool story!!!
Similar thing happened in my area with the local shelter - they caught people on camera stealing a puppy - posted it on FB - news picked it up - and the dog was returned and the people were caught
 
I never really understood the fascination of the whole thing frankly. Why would we want to advertise so much about ourselves to so many people? I just don't get it.

Definitely NOT speaking for myself here (because I am thoroughly and unapologetically addicted to FB...) but honestly not everyone who has facebook "advertises" every second of their lives. A lot of people on my friends list never update their status or pictures and once every 5 years will they comment on anyone else's Facebook updates. They basically have it merely as a solution to boredom, because people like to Facestalk quietly! Aside from being a potential housing platform for every thought/feeling/tummy rumbling that one encounters minute-to-minute, it's useful for keeping up with people you don't get to see because, as in my case, you live 4+ hours away from them.

I know, I know probably a lot of your parents do it and everything. I guess it's just me being my usual rebel self or something. Anyway, even if I did have a Facebook page it would just make me look like the boring old, non-partying person I am. I'm sure it would have some of my political rants, though. Maybe someday I'll be forced to do it or I'll be left behind by the rest of the world.

On behalf of myself and the rest of the "younger" Facebook users, I sincerely thank and appreciate you for refraining from joining the millions of clueless parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles who have blindly hijacked the walls of Facebook with their cluelessness. If you think the younger generation is bad, take a gander at people like my mom and aunt.. the epitome of taking a fun pastime and just bludgeoning it to no end. I applaud you for opting against being another annoying wannabe-hipster adult.


I'm going to go against the consensus here and say that I'm not really concerned about adcoms looking at my facebook. First, it's private except for my name/profile picture, and second, it's a pretty accurate representation of who I am. If a school is going to reject me because I sometimes make jokes in poor taste, I swear fairly regularly, and I constantly profess my love for a seriously hoppy IPA, then that's probably not the school for me. The school for me would be a place that can see that those things make me human, but that there's a lot more to me than bad jokes, bad words, and great beer!

YES!!! Thank you! I don't see what the fuss is about?! Make you stuff private and be done with it! If all one can see when they visit your page is your default profile picture, how can they possibly scrutinize your personal life via Facebook?? If your default has you throwing up in an alley topless, well you need some class anyways, and they have every right to judge you. Otherwise move on, there are plenty of other first world problems..
 
I've heard of this not specifically with vet apps, but for things like job applications, and other professional schools (so yeah vet school in that case!).

All the things I've seen were on the news, and I think the general message is 'Don't be an idiot'. If your facebook profile is private or invisible, then people outside your friends can't see you or anything on you profile.

My e-mail address for vet school (i.e. my "professional" e-mail address) isn't the same as my facebook log on, and my name on facebook is my first and middle name. I didn't specifically do this for privacy and so that employers can't find me, it just worked out that way, but essentially serves the same purpose.

I don't think its necessary to go all paranoia and delete your entire facebook profile page, but just be smart about it, and don't tag photos of yourself where you're piss-drunk, half naked and posing with a shot gun and a bloody deer or something.

Wanted to add:
in addition to what Libster06 said, I'm not one to update every minute from my iphone: "walking the dog!", "saw the cutest squirrel on my walk!" "soo hot out! really want to go for a swim!" "Swimminggg!! <3!" ... etc, (not to mention my lack of iphone-ness), but Facebook is also excellent for keeping in touch with people you meet while traveling, and sharing pictures of your travels with your friends/family to let them know you're still alive, and also to make them extremely jealous. Facebook is quicker and easier to message a friend in another country then e-mailing, and its more fun because you can see their pictures, live chat, etc. Its also an easier way to remember who's who rather then trying to remember if [email protected] is that hot guy you met on the ferry to Montezuma, or that really cool mom of 3 you met while you were lost in the middle of Auckland.
 
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my name on facebook is my first and middle name. I didn't specifically do this for privacy and so that employers can't find me, it just worked out that way, but essentially serves the same purpose.

I turned off the search feature to where no one can search for me. I did it as a creep-control measure awhile back because I kept getting a lot of random friend requests that were annoying but it's also just worked out REALLY well in a lot of other aspects too. Not only can I now screen who I am friends with but people I associate with yet know me very little, such as bosses and coworkers, can't troll me easily.

Particularly, recently the employer I worked for this summer was trying to find me on Facebook bc another pot-stirring employee there lied and told them I was writing about the business and the job. Then the boss guy actually said to me, several times, that he hadn't been able to find me to "confirm" anything... as if he was expecting me to jump in and say "Sure! Of course, I'd be more than happy to let you can scroll through my personal life for your own peace of mind, and in fact since you're having trouble, 'lemme just help you out there and find it for you myself..."
 
I haven't changed my search settings, but I don't confirm any friends requests from employers or co-workers until I am no longer actively working somewhere.

I'm also in the camp of don't put your sneezes(or other mundane stupidity) on facebook. I think I update maybe once a semester with pictures to let my family know that vet school hasn't killed me yet, and so they can see what kind of trouble I've been up to, but that's about it.
 
On behalf of myself and the rest of the "younger" Facebook users, I sincerely thank and appreciate you for refraining from joining the millions of clueless parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles who have blindly hijacked the walls of Facebook with their cluelessness. If you think the younger generation is bad, take a gander at people like my mom and aunt.. the epitome of taking a fun pastime and just bludgeoning it to no end. I applaud you for opting against being another annoying wannabe-hipster adult.
Yuck!😱 Old people:scared: Get them away. They just ruin everything!

All I can say is, "Get over yourself."
 
Libster06-Since I've not yet ventured into Facebook and don't know much about it, could you maybe tell me what your aunt and mother did that was offensive? Is it just that they joined or did they do something against the rules or just embarrass you or others or what? I'd honestly like to know specifics. I get the idea, like LetItSnow, that maybe it's just the fact that they're old and that you feel older people don't belong or can't have fun or something like that. Correct us if we are wrong.
 
Sorry...it was StartingOverVet, not LetItSnow (apologies LIS...you might think we're too old for Facebook, so I don't want to put words in your mouth).
 
Yuck!😱 Old people:scared: Get them away. They just ruin everything!

And they smell too :meanie:

In japan, there's a legitimate and pretty popular word for "old man smell." I dunno how in touch your wife is with japanese media, but for a while, they had these commercials (for Fabreeze maybe?) where wives are shocked and depressed to realize that their aging husbands are starting to emanate this old man smell, and some spray/laundry detergent/etc comes to the rescue! Ask her about the phenomenon, it's pretty hilarious (though kind of sad since old men are always so ostracized).

Kareishu
 
My experience with the older generation is that they cannot spell, do a lot of these "Post this on your wall for one hour" things and/or use internet lingo far too often. It drives me bonkers. 🙄.
A friend of mine (who is trying to land a teaching job) added a bunch of his students and teachers. Yet, he chooses to swear, talk about porn, and ramble on about how student loan/voting/university/etc. sucks. Talk about setting a bad example to EVERYONE in his potential field. Yet, he claims that he can sue if he is fired/denied a job based on his facebook profile. 😕.
 
And they smell too :meanie:

In japan, there's a legitimate and pretty popular word for "old man smell." I dunno how in touch your wife is with japanese media, but for a while, they had these commercials (for Fabreeze maybe?) where wives are shocked and depressed to realize that their aging husbands are starting to emanate this old man smell, and some spray/laundry detergent/etc comes to the rescue! Ask her about the phenomenon, it's pretty hilarious (though kind of sad since old men are always so ostracized).

Kareishu
And I was just getting over being a "wet leaf" husband (with no classes to attend). Something else to worry about😱!
 
And I was just getting over being a "wet leaf" husband (with no classes to attend). Something else to worry about😱!

Go and fabreeze everything you've worn/touched, and she won't notice! Go GO GO!!!

Fabreeze commercial (this one isn't the best tho... there are better kareishu CM's out there)

P.S. sorry... waaaay off topic. I hit submit and realized i couldn't remember what thread I was posting on. But I'm really concerned for SoV's marriage here.
 
My experience with the older generation is that they cannot spell, do a lot of these "Post this on your wall for one hour" things and/or use internet lingo far too often. It drives me bonkers. 🙄.

My family seems to think that facebook is the place to brag about things you would never bother bragging about in public. For instance, my mother posted on my wall about how wonderful I was for cleaning up the dead rabbit in the yard. Why????? 😕
 
I like facebook because it makes it easier to stay in touch with my family. Besides my mom and siblings, everybody still lives in Germany, and although we do talk on the phone regularly, facebook is a pretty nice tool for it. We can look at each others pictures, talk about things that interest us and so on. My phone won't let me call to Germany (it can receive calls though), so if there is something really urgent that my dad needs to know, I just facebook him. I like it.

I also don't think that anybody is ever too old for it. There are people making stupid posts that are teenagers, and there are those that are older. I don't think my dad is too old. In fact, when I'm going to Germany for christmas, I'll be making one for my grandma so she can see our pictures and everything too. :] We do e-mail already, but my account is dumb and won't let me send a lot of pictures in e-mails, so facebook is gonna make that easier.
 
Yuck!😱 Old people:scared: Get them away. They just ruin everything!

All I can say is, "Get over yourself."

🙁 sorry granpappy I didn't mean to offend you.


Also the ageist-ness you perceived in my comment was not intended to be that way. On second thought, let them eat Facebook.
 
Libster06-Since I've not yet ventured into Facebook and don't know much about it, could you maybe tell me what your aunt and mother did that was offensive? Is it just that they joined or did they do something against the rules or just embarrass you or others or what? I'd honestly like to know specifics. I get the idea, like LetItSnow, that maybe it's just the fact that they're old and that you feel older people don't belong or can't have fun or something like that. Correct us if we are wrong.

Anyone can join facebook. There are no official "rules". However, as with many social networking sites, there is a certain level of unspoken etiquette that most people who are familiar with things like facebook, generally understand and comply with. Its just that it seems that older people (and very young teenagers) tend to overdo it on there. Like, typing in all caps or rambling and updating every 3 seconds about the same useless things... Also, they (meaning my family members) will comment about me using profanity, or how I should be studying rather than on FB (because God forbid I do anything else but study), and it's just annoying. I'm a grown woman, I don't need someone monitoring me and a lot of times that's how it feels with all of my family constantly connected to my life.

Trematode hit the nail on the head also about what I mean when I say over do it I am referring to:
My experience with the older generation is that they cannot spell, do a lot of these "Post this on your wall for one hour" things and/or use internet lingo far too often. It drives me bonkers. 🙄.

I'm sorry yall took offense to it. I didn't mean it like that, I just meant that I feel like some people get facebook because they're trying to fit in with the rest of the world but they just never really get the hang of it or understand it and it makes them look silly.
 
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