Vet vs Med?

[jessicaic]

So I've been set on being a physician for a while now and I am going to be starting college in August as a Biomedical Sciences major, but I have been looking into Vet school and veterinary medicine and now I'm at a crossroad. I just want to consider all of my options. I love animals and I love anything to do with science and medicine so really either one would be interesting in the end. While I am a social person and I can work great in teams and with other people, I feel like with my personality I would do really well with animals vs only working with humans. I've been doing my research and I am mainly interested in zoo and wildlife. I know vet salaries are low (especially compared to MD's) and there is a struggle to pay back loans but I am honestly not worried about that no matter what path I take because I feel like if it is something I love doing, it will be worth it. I just want to see if anyone has any helpful input? I have time to decide but I also want to figure out what kind of volunteering I want to do in college (hospital vs volunteering with animals somewhere).
Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated!

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[JaynaAli]

Shadow a physician. Shadow a veterinarian. See which fits you better. You are just starting out and many of the prerequisites for vet and human med are similar. There is time to explore both options.

Also don't discount the debt related to vet med. It is more than just struggling to pay it back...some people can have loan burdens so high they have trouble/can't buy a new vehicle, purchase a home, and save for retirement adequately. With income based repayment it becomes more doable for many people, but not all. Spend a little time using the search function on this forum and read some old threads, they might also provide you some insight as well.

 

[DVMDream]

So I've been set on being a physician for a while now and I am going to be starting college in August as a Biomedical Sciences major, but I have been looking into Vet school and veterinary medicine and now I'm at a crossroad. I just want to consider all of my options. I love animals and I love anything to do with science and medicine so really either one would be interesting in the end. While I am a social person and I can work great in teams and with other people, I feel like with my personality I would do really well with animals vs only working with humans. I've been doing my research and I am mainly interested in zoo and wildlife. I know vet salaries are low (especially compared to MD's) and there is a struggle to pay back loans but I am honestly not worried about that no matter what path I take because I feel like if it is something I love doing, it will be worth it. I just want to see if anyone has any helpful input? I have time to decide but I also want to figure out what kind of volunteering I want to do in college (hospital vs volunteering with animals somewhere).
Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated!

I like/love doing vet med as much as you possibly can. The debt isn't worth it. If someone told me they'd eliminate my debt but I couldn't work another day as a vet, I'd jump on that opportunity like a fat kid on cake.

 

[Gemgrrrl]

I know vet salaries are low (especially compared to MD's) and there is a struggle to pay back loans but I am honestly not worried about that no matter what path I take because I feel like if it is something I love doing, it will be worth it.

No matter how much you love your job, if you can't afford to live much of a life outside of your job it won't be worth it. I would think very seriously about how much debt you will have once you finish vet school (undergrad loans, vet school tuition, and living expenses). Think about how much money you will actually have to live on after debt repayment when you graduate. Just as an example - the average vet student will graduate with $176K in student loan debt. In order to pay that off in 10 years, you would have to put roughly 1/2 of your monthly post-tax income towards loan payments (based on $70K avg annual salary). That means you'd have around $2500 for living expenses - for 10 years. You could pay it off in 25 years by only putting 1/4 of your income towards repayment, giving yourself more to spend every month. But you'll have that payment for 25 years, which is probably longer than most people have been alive when they take on that kind of debt. (There is a good calculator here: Student Debt Center - VIN)

I don't want to sound harsh - but I honestly feel like the price to get a DVM far exceeds the income potential if you are financing all of your debt. At the time most people are signing on for all of that debt, they don't have the perspective to really understand what it will mean for their future quality of life. If you educate yourself and still want to take it on - go for it. But just do it with with your eyes wide open, knowing the reality of the decisions you're making - not because you're starry eyed about being a vet.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

So I've been set on being a physician for a while now and I am going to be starting college in August as a Biomedical Sciences major, but I have been looking into Vet school and veterinary medicine and now I'm at a crossroad. I just want to consider all of my options. I love animals and I love anything to do with science and medicine so really either one would be interesting in the end. While I am a social person and I can work great in teams and with other people, I feel like with my personality I would do really well with animals vs only working with humans. I've been doing my research and I am mainly interested in zoo and wildlife. I know vet salaries are low (especially compared to MD's) and there is a struggle to pay back loans but I am honestly not worried about that no matter what path I take because I feel like if it is something I love doing, it will be worth it. I just want to see if anyone has any helpful input? I have time to decide but I also want to figure out what kind of volunteering I want to do in college (hospital vs volunteering with animals somewhere).
Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated!

A few things.

1) A HUGE proportion of your time as a vet is interacting with owners. You need to have a thick skin and be comfortable interacting with all sorts of people (and often people who are upset because their animal is sick, because they can't or won't pay, because they read XYZ on the internet don't believe you, etc etc etc). Clients can be vicious. Think of it as a version of pediatric medicine - you may be sort of interacting with the kids, but you are mostly dealing with the parents.

2) As a warning - zoo and wildlife are two of the smallest, most competitive, and most poorly compensated areas of vet med. I can't count the number of people who are all gung-ho zoo/wildlife when they go into vet school. To be fair, it's a romantic idea - that's why everyone wants to do it. Then reality happens. 95% of them end up doing something else.

3) Spoken like someone who has never had to choose between food and gas. I assume you're what.....18 or so? Honestly, most people don't understand the financial ramifications of things and you have no concept of money at that age. How could you, you've been most likely living with your parents until now with most things paid for.

I don't mean this to sound insulting - I'm being honest. It's a fact. It doesn't sound like a big deal to you because you have no concept of it, and you can't really be blamed for that. However, it IS your job to now educate yourself - your career is a big deal and chronic financial instability is not something to just brushed off with "Oh, I'll be happy if I am just doing what I love!" (hint - you won't)

Please shadow as much as you can and be realistic about finances. Talk to as many vets as you can, and this includes those of us here. Ask them if they enjoy their jobs, how they feel about their loans, what are the good and bad aspects of their careers, if they would do it all over again, etc. Then decide if you really want to take this road or if you would be just as happy doing human med. If it's the latter, then for the love of God, do so.

 

[JRod94]

So I've been set on being a physician for a while now and I am going to be starting college in August as a Biomedical Sciences major, but I have been looking into Vet school and veterinary medicine and now I'm at a crossroad. I just want to consider all of my options. I love animals and I love anything to do with science and medicine so really either one would be interesting in the end. While I am a social person and I can work great in teams and with other people, I feel like with my personality I would do really well with animals vs only working with humans. I've been doing my research and I am mainly interested in zoo and wildlife. I know vet salaries are low (especially compared to MD's) and there is a struggle to pay back loans but I am honestly not worried about that no matter what path I take because I feel like if it is something I love doing, it will be worth it. I just want to see if anyone has any helpful input? I have time to decide but I also want to figure out what kind of volunteering I want to do in college (hospital vs volunteering with animals somewhere).
Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated!

So I was on the same boat as you are (although I made my decision to change to vet med my senior year of undergrad. Which was the most stressful and stupid thing I could have done. But It was totally worth it in the end). If you shadow a doctor and a veterinarian and you think you can see yourself being happy as either, go with the MD. Everyone else here has been saying the same thing, DEBT. As an MD, you'll be making a much higher salary and you have a feasible way of paying off your debt while still doing things like: owning a house, raising a family, etc.
You can still do that as a veterinarian but the debt will haunt you for a LONG TIME.
I switched over from human med to vet med because I was so unbelievably unhappy working in the human med field. I was an EMT for 3 years and I did not enjoy it. The medicine itself interested me, but I never felt the necessity to take classes like human anatomy or physiology, which was a HUGE red flag.
You'll eventually find out which path attracts you more. If you fall in love, and I mean head over heels in love with vet med then go for it, but if you're still undecided between the two after gaining more insight then human med may be a better path for you.

 

[battie]

Not to beat a dead horse, but if I had to retake year 1 (either because I don't quite make it this quarter or if I transferred to a different school), I would leave vet med and go onto my backup plan. I will simply not be able to justify the expense of 280,000 in debt to be paid 70,000.

Also a lot of the mental health problems in the profession have deep roots in the financial aspects. 1/6 veterinarians consider suicide. They say money can't buy happiness, but it feeds, clothes, and shelters you.

 

[DVMDream]

They say money can't buy happiness, but it feeds, clothes, and shelters you.

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

View attachment 216963

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I feel like that third quote should be one of your grumpy cat posts.

 

[DVMDream]

I feel like that third quote should be one of your grumpy cat posts.

(Not that I have any money to be buried with but we won't talk about that....)

 

[battie]

I feel like that third quote should be one of your grumpy cat posts.

I was thinking the third one describes my relationship with my loans.

 

[twelvetigers]

A few things.

1) A HUGE proportion of your time as a vet is interacting with owners. You need to have a thick skin and be comfortable interacting with all sorts of people (and often people who are upset because their animal is sick, because they can't or won't pay, because they read XYZ on the internet don't believe you, etc etc etc). Clients can be vicious. Think of it as a version of pediatric medicine - you may be sort of interacting with the kids, but you are mostly dealing with the parents.

2) As a warning - zoo and wildlife are two of the smallest, most competitive, and most poorly compensated areas of vet med. I can't count the number of people who are all gung-ho zoo/wildlife when they go into vet school. To be fair, it's a romantic idea - that's why everyone wants to do it. Then reality happens. 95% of them end up doing something else.

3) Spoken like someone who has never had to choose between food and gas. I assume you're what.....18 or so? Honestly, most people don't understand the financial ramifications of things and you have no concept of money at that age. How could you, you've been most likely living with your parents until now with most things paid for.

I don't mean this to sound insulting - I'm being honest. It's a fact. It doesn't sound like a big deal to you because you have no concept of it, and you can't really be blamed for that. However, it IS your job to now educate yourself - your career is a big deal and chronic financial instability is not something to just brushed off with "Oh, I'll be happy if I am just doing what I love!" (hint - you won't)

Please shadow as much as you can and be realistic about finances. Talk to as many vets as you can, and this includes those of us here. Ask them if they enjoy their jobs, how they feel about their loans, what are the good and bad aspects of their careers, if they would do it all over again, etc. Then decide if you really want to take this road or if you would be just as happy doing human med. If it's the latter, then for the love of God, do so.

I'mma quote this hoping that you don't realize you have already read it and you read it again. I'm tempted to quote it twice.

 

[clinicalscience808]

I am having a similar debate although I am further along in the process. I received my Bachelor's degree in two years as a Biology major and recently received my Master's degree in Biotechnology. Over the past year I have worked at a veterinarians office to get hours and have applied to vet school for Fall 2018. However, I have been looking into salaries and hours put in and have been thinking about med school. The way I see it, I love animals and would love to be a vet but I am not sure if 8+ years of schooling is worth the small salaries and emergency hours that vets receive comparatively. As far as med school, I feel like I would make a good doctor because my emotions wouldn't get in the way as they would as a vet (since its heartbreaking a vet when theres just nothing you can do). To clarify, I would preferably be a radiologist, anesthesiologist, or general practitioner (something that I would not deal with the major downsides of the job like a vet would). I would also make more money as an MD. My main worry is that I just applied to vet school and I don't want to appear wishy-washy in my applications since I had applied to PhD programs before vet school. My rec letter providers have provided both PhD letters and vet letters and I'm not sure how comfortable I am asking them to change my focus and write a new one AGAIN, especially because I don't have any other people I could ask. Also, I might have to take more time to get hours in a MD office and get a rec letter from an MD. Anyone have any thoughts on what I should do? I feel like I'm so late in the process to change again but I don't want to be stuck as a vet and not like my salary/hours.

 

[Doctor-S]

I am having a similar debate although I am further along in the process. I received my Bachelor's degree in two years as a Biology major and recently received my Master's degree in Biotechnology. Over the past year I have worked at a veterinarians office to get hours and have applied to vet school for Fall 2018. However, I have been looking into salaries and hours put in and have been thinking about med school. The way I see it, I love animals and would love to be a vet but I am not sure if 8+ years of schooling is worth the small salaries and emergency hours that vets receive comparatively. As far as med school, I feel like I would make a good doctor because my emotions wouldn't get in the way as they would as a vet (since its heartbreaking a vet when theres just nothing you can do). To clarify, I would preferably be a radiologist, anesthesiologist, or general practitioner (something that I would not deal with the major downsides of the job like a vet would). I would also make more money as an MD. My main worry is that I just applied to vet school and I don't want to appear wishy-washy in my applications since I had applied to PhD programs before vet school. My rec letter providers have provided both PhD letters and vet letters and I'm not sure how comfortable I am asking them to change my focus and write a new one AGAIN, especially because I don't have any other people I could ask. Also, I might have to take more time to get hours in a MD office and get a rec letter from an MD. Anyone have any thoughts on what I should do? I feel like I'm so late in the process to change again but I don't want to be stuck as a vet and not like my salary/hours.

My initial thoughts: you might benefit from slowing down, exploring your goals/interests/passions, and regrouping at this time.

Without unpacking some of the other points mentioned in your post, it's advisable to find more MDs and DVMs to shadow before you make a potentially life-altering decision. In so doing, you can take time to figure out what you want to do for the next 30, or 40, or 50+ years of your life.

Get in more trenches and find out *what* actually occurs in the life of different veterinarians and physicians - positive, neutral and negative. Take the time to converse (and shadow) recent graduates of veterinary and medical school. As early career professionals, they'll probably have the "freshest" information to provide to you - especially since they're in the early stages of a professional career that you're thinking about pursuing.

Take more time to observe ... process ... and learn. The practice of medicine (we're all "doctors" whether our patients are animals or humans) is not perfectly luxurious, glamorous, carefree, or filled with staggering wealth. There are many clinical issues, as well as practical everyday issues (e.g., overhead and insurance), associated with the practice of veterinary or human medicine. There are also psychological issues, business issues, etc.

TL/DR: feel free to explore your career thoughts and options; and weigh the pros-and-cons of the career that truly interests you *before* you invest significant time, labor, energy and money into a career that might (or might not) meet your expectations or goals (or worse yet leads to burnout, despondence or total job dissatisfaction).

I wish you the best of success!

[By the way, anesthesiologists, general practitioners and radiologists routinely deal with major downsides of their jobs and often feel helpless, affected, dispirited and demoralized when patients AMA, or don't do well, or spiral downward ... and expire.]

 

[Fluidpaladin]

I am having a similar debate although I am further along in the process. I received my Bachelor's degree in two years as a Biology major and recently received my Master's degree in Biotechnology. Over the past year I have worked at a veterinarians office to get hours and have applied to vet school for Fall 2018. However, I have been looking into salaries and hours put in and have been thinking about med school. The way I see it, I love animals and would love to be a vet but I am not sure if 8+ years of schooling is worth the small salaries and emergency hours that vets receive comparatively. As far as med school, I feel like I would make a good doctor because my emotions wouldn't get in the way as they would as a vet (since its heartbreaking a vet when theres just nothing you can do). To clarify, I would preferably be a radiologist, anesthesiologist, or general practitioner (something that I would not deal with the major downsides of the job like a vet would). I would also make more money as an MD. My main worry is that I just applied to vet school and I don't want to appear wishy-washy in my applications since I had applied to PhD programs before vet school. My rec letter providers have provided both PhD letters and vet letters and I'm not sure how comfortable I am asking them to change my focus and write a new one AGAIN, especially because I don't have any other people I could ask. Also, I might have to take more time to get hours in a MD office and get a rec letter from an MD. Anyone have any thoughts on what I should do? I feel like I'm so late in the process to change again but I don't want to be stuck as a vet and not like my salary/hours.

I do want to point out, because I feel that a lot of this thread is talking about debt, that you can still make money as a vet. You won't make the money you would as an equivalently trained MD, but you can make 200-300K if you specialize. Radiologists in vet med can make 350K, so if that is really what you want to do, don't let money scare you off.

 

[britzen]

I do want to point out, because I feel that a lot of this thread is talking about debt, that you can still make money as a vet. You won't make the money you would as an equivalently trained MD, but you can make 200-300K if you specialize. Radiologists in vet med can make 350K, so if that is really what you want to do, don't let money scare you off.

In what region could you make that much?

Related general question: Anybody have stats for average salaries of specialists?

I've seen the regional veterinarian salary breakdowns from the Bureau of Labor statistics, curious if another organization has more detailed info on specialties vs. general practice vs. other (especially that factors in regional or age differences).

Per BLS, only 10% of veterinarians make $160K+, and presumably that includes lots of mid and late career specialists at peak earning power (eg not younger veterinarians still trying to pay of their loans while also buy their first house).

My impression is also that veterinarians going on to specialties also make substantially less than average for at least four years (1 year internship + 3 years residency). Given how low they are, I would think that an internship or residency salary might not even be enough to keep up with interest on average loan debt, so you'd have to factor in not only the actual salary differences but also the cost of the extra interest that accrues during those four years and the interest that accrues during the extra years needed to pay off the debt. Not to mention the fact that specialties and higher than average salaries are also correlated with cities that have higher than average costs of living...

So... all this begs the question if you can afford to comfortably live for 10 years while also making student loan payments, even if you go on to a high-paying specialty. Everybody's answer to that will be different, but worth looking into for anybody considering the profession. I'd be curious to see if any organization has done a study calculating the true difference in career earning potential when you account for all of the above.

 

[twelvetigers]

I do want to point out, because I feel that a lot of this thread is talking about debt, that you can still make money as a vet. You won't make the money you would as an equivalently trained MD, but you can make 200-300K if you specialize. Radiologists in vet med can make 350K, so if that is really what you want to do, don't let money scare you off.

I would venture to say that vet salaries rarely surpass $150k without (successful) practice ownership. Even with a specialization like surgery, pathology, or radiology - yeah. I don’t think it’s common at all. $350k as a vet of ANY type is very, very hard to believe.

 

[SocialStigma]

I would venture to say that vet salaries rarely surpass $150k without (successful) practice ownership. Even with a specialization like surgery, pathology, or radiology - yeah. I don’t think it’s common at all. $350k as a vet of ANY type is very, very hard to believe.

I agree that $300k+ would be very surprising in vet med (unless you are the Dean of a CVM or something), but $200k isn't uncommon for some specialties, especially in private practice. I've received recruitment letters stating a starting salary of $180-190k that would go up to $200k + production once I pass boards. My radiologist friends (just finished their residency last year) are definitely making $200k+ in private practice.

 

[SkiOtter]

I agree that $300k+ would be very surprising in vet med (unless you are the Dean of a CVM or something), but $200k isn't uncommon for some specialties, especially in private practice. I've received recruitment letters stating a starting salary of $180-190k that would go up to $200k + production once I pass boards. My radiologist friends (just finished their residency last year) are definitely making $200k+ in private practice.

Canadian or usd tho? Not a huuuuge difference with the exchange rate but there is some

 

[SocialStigma]

Canadian or usd tho? Not a huuuuge difference with the exchange rate but there is some

Ha, that would definitely make a difference! I'm talking USD though.

 

[SkiOtter]

Ha, that would definitely make a difference! I'm talking USD though.

Just making sure we actually were all in the same currency tho
Saw you went to ovc

 

[JaynaAli]

I know a couple radiologists making 300k+, one who just finished residency. They work for corporate private practice (reading in-house stuff plus consulting/reviewing for other practices in the corporation) plus they take on a bunch of 'extra' telerads in their 'free time'. From talking to residents from other specialties like oncology, surgery, and internal medicine at my institution, I've heard about what SocialStigma said for private practice jobs. Path you might get 120ish in a diagnostic lab setting when you first start out. Academia is a whole other beast though...don't expect anything like private practice salaries there. I know boarded pathologists making 85-100 in academia.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I know a couple radiologists making 300k+, one who just finished residency. They work for corporate private practice (reading in-house stuff plus consulting/reviewing for other practices in the corporation) plus they take on a bunch of 'extra' telerads in their 'free time'. From talking to residents from other specialties like oncology, surgery, and internal medicine at my institution, I've heard about what SocialStigma said for private practice jobs. Path you might get 120ish in a diagnostic lab setting when you first start out. Academia is a whole other beast though...don't expect anything like private practice salaries there. I know boarded pathologists making 85-100 in academia.

85k is underpaid for a DACVP in academia. 100-110 is more standard for a brand new hire. But you're right in terms of academic vs industry salaries.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Speaking of teleradiology...Has anyone come across opportunities to tele-consult for Idexx and Antech? I knew a zoo vet who consults for Idexx as a side hustle and said he makes a decent chunk of change. I haven't come across such an opportunity on either company's website, but it could be a special situation since he is a zoo vet.

Also this thread is making me want to re-consider radiology. I really liked radiology when we had an actual radiologist first year, but I've since lost that interest since we haven't really had good radiology education since.

 

[DVMDream]

I do want to point out, because I feel that a lot of this thread is talking about debt, that you can still make money as a vet. You won't make the money you would as an equivalently trained MD, but you can make 200-300K if you specialize. Radiologists in vet med can make 350K, so if that is really what you want to do, don't let money scare you off.

Even if you can make the figures above, telling someone to not let the money to scare them away just because they "might" be able to make a decent living if they specialize probably isn't a good idea for a number of reasons. The first being, what if they don't want to specialize? The second, what if they decide they like one of the lower paying specialties where they aren't making much more than a general practitioner? What if they don't make it through vet school? What if they struggle in vet school and can't specialize?

Basically, anyone going into this field needs to be very, very aware of the debt and the impact that can and will have on their life. They shouldn't walk into veterinary medicine thinking that it is ok to go $250,000+ in debt because they are totally going to get into that competitive specialty and they will totally pass specialty boards and they will totally land that $200-300k per year job, because, really, that happens to very few people.