Veterinary Specialties of Canada

[Dr. Matt]

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Hey everyone. New to the site and lovin it. I am currently in highschool and not completely sure of what I want to become once graduated, but high up on my list is becoming a vet. More specifically, a vet specialist(surgery). I was just wondering what schools in Canada I could go to to specialize and what kind of salary I am looking at in Canada?. Any information on education or just any info would be greatly appreciate. Thanks

Dr. Matt

 

[twelvetigers]

First, you get your DVM - then you can specialize. For surgery, this will likely mean a one year internship followed by a three (?) year residency, both of which you apply for through the match program (VIRMP). Really, the only thing to worry about at all for now is just getting into the vet school for your province. (I think that's how it works in Canada.)

Salary, beats me... but probably the average is close to the equivalent of $60k USD a year.

 

[Escalla]

You can only go the school designated to your province unless there's extenuating circumstances surrounding your residency (like parents living in different provinces).

So that means...

BC, AB, SK, MB, Territories - University of Saskatchewan/WCVM
AB - University of Calgary/UCVM
ON - University of Guelph/OVC
QC - University of Montreal
NS, NB, PEI, NL - AVC/University of PEI

Like TT said, you will have to do a 1-year internship and a 3-year residency through VIRMP (which can take you outside of Canada) to become specialized in surgery.

Salary info....I had a whole lecture on it and it varies which province you're in and what area you go into....but the national average starting salary back in 2008 was $60,700 (with the high being $77,000) for a 40-45 hr work week. This is for GPs straight out of school. For surgeons, I have no idea, but I would worry more about vet school itself to start with.

 

[Coquette22]

Just to add since you're still in high school, you can do your pre-requisite courses pretty much anywhere, so you don't necessarily have to go to an undergraduate school with a specific "pre-vet" program. Look up the vet school you would be eligible for based on your province, find their pre-requisite courses and then start taking them and getting volunteer/paid/shadowing experience at clinics.

 

[SocialStigma]

Everyone has already said pretty much what I wanted to say. Except that OVC now has a 4 year surgical residency program (all other schools are still 3 years to my knowledge), they just changed it this year. Starting salary for a new grad in SA general practice would be around $60-70k (in Ontario), higher for more rural areas. As an intern and surgical resident, you'd be making around $22-40k (depending on the program). I don't have exact figures for an ACVS diplomate surgeon (and it will also depend on whether you're going into SA or LA surgery, whether you're in private practice vs. institution), but it seems to be about $100-150k based on asking around/anecdotes.

I'm an OVC student hoping to specialize in small animal surgery, feel free to PM me if you have more questions!

 

[Dr. Matt]

Thanks for all of the info guys, greatly appreciate it. Anymore is still welcome!

 

[Thelemic]

If you're interested in an internship/residency match through VIRMP, do you have to apply to each separately, or do you apply once in 4th year and get matched (hopefully) with both an internship and residency? As all residencies I know of require a year of internship first, it seems like it would be very frustrating to get accepted into an internship only to find, a year later, you didn't get accepted into a residency.

 

[Escalla]

If you're interested in an internship/residency match through VIRMP, do you have to apply to each separately, or do you apply once in 4th year and get matched (hopefully) with both an internship and residency? As all residencies I know of require a year of internship first, it seems like it would be very frustrating to get accepted into an internship only to find, a year later, you didn't get accepted into a residency.

They are separate. Often there are people that want to only do an internship and decide not to pursue a residency.

 

[JaynaAli]

They're separate. And I am pretty sure with some specialties (like SA surgery), the competitive applicants have even done two internships before getting a residency.

 

[primatevetjess]

Also, there are two specialties that don't require an internship first (pathology and lab animal medicine).

 

[NStarz]

Also, there are two specialties that don't require an internship first (pathology and lab animal medicine).

I believe behavior also falls into that category.

 

[Thelemic]

I believe behavior also falls into that category.

Behavior is the residency I'm currently most interested in, but according to The OSU Behavioral Residency webpage, a rotating internship is required.

 

[NStarz]

Behavior is the residency I'm currently most interested in, but according to The OSU Behavioral Residency webpage, a rotating internship is required.

It probably depends on the residency program. My friend is pursuing a non-conforming residency and that doesn't require an internship.

 

[Thelemic]

It probably depends on the residency program. My friend is pursuing a non-conforming residency and that doesn't require an internship.

That's awesome. Do you know what makes it 'non-conforming'?

 

[NStarz]

That's awesome. Do you know what makes it 'non-conforming'?

The fact that it's not an approved residency program. It's a residency under a boarded behaviorist without being a certified "program" per say. There should be more info on the Behavior Med website about nonconforming residencies.

 

[Thelemic]

The fact that it's not an approved residency program. It's a residency under a boarded behaviorist without being a certified "program" per say. There should be more info on the Behavior Med website about nonconforming residencies.

Gotcha. Thanks! I'll check it out.

 

[Dr. Matt]

Here`s another question that came to mind. When specializing in surgery, can you specialize and train to do one area of surgery(ex. just neuro or just ortho) or do you have to train in every category and learn every procedure for every category(ex. general + ortho + thoracic, etc.)????

 

[twelvetigers]

Pretty sure if you want to go into neuro, you do neuro. If you want cardio, you do cardio. And if you want surgery, you do surgery... which is pretty much anything that involves cutting.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Pretty sure if you want to go into neuro, you do neuro. If you want cardio, you do cardio. And if you want surgery, you do surgery... which is pretty much anything that involves cutting.

Yep. Veterinary surgeons are general surgeons. Although many "subspecialize" and become especially good at certain areas e.g ortho vs soft tissue. But you still have to be able to do almost anything.


Veterinary cardiologists will, however, do heart surgery. Veterinary neurologists will cut backs and brains. So there is overlap.

 

[SocialStigma]

Here`s another question that came to mind. When specializing in surgery, can you specialize and train to do one area of surgery(ex. just neuro or just ortho) or do you have to train in every category and learn every procedure for every category(ex. general + ortho + thoracic, etc.)????

You have to be proficient in each area to pass boards but after that you can choose to practice only ortho/soft tissue/etc surgery if you like.

 

[Thelemic]

So, if you decide you want to specialize in a surgical area such as ortho, neuro, etc, what are the pros and cons of choosing to go into surgery rather than the area in which you want to surgically specialize? That is, if someone becomes a board-certified surgeon, realistically, do they end up needing to specialize, anyway, or are there veterinary surgeons out there that do it all? And how do they do it all? I would think if your animal was seeing a veterinary surgeon in the first place, it would likely be a referral? And if that's the case, wouldn't most GP vets refer their clients to the specialist that deals with the particular area/system that's causing trouble? That is, a dog with a neurological issue would be referred to a neurologist who would diagnose and then perform neurological surgery if it was required, etc. So, where would a non-specialized veterinary surgeon fit in? Or, for that matter, veterinary surgeons who have specialized in an area but are 'vet neuro surgeons' rather than 'vet neurologists'?

 

[Dr. Matt]

Ok makes sense. Thanks. So that means that Vet cardiologists and neurologists can perform surgery just in that category?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

They can perform any surgery they want. Any vet can in theory and in licensure. It comes down to experience and comfort. Being a pathologist does not restrict me from doing, say, intestinal resection. But I probably would decline to do it because I haven't done many.

 

[SocialStigma]

So, if you decide you want to specialize in a surgical area such as ortho, neuro, etc, what are the pros and cons of choosing to go into surgery rather than the area in which you want to surgically specialize? That is, if someone becomes a board-certified surgeon, realistically, do they end up needing to specialize, anyway, or are there veterinary surgeons out there that do it all? And how do they do it all? I would think if your animal was seeing a veterinary surgeon in the first place, it would likely be a referral? And if that's the case, wouldn't most GP vets refer their clients to the specialist that deals with the particular area/system that's causing trouble? That is, a dog with a neurological issue would be referred to a neurologist who would diagnose and then perform neurological surgery if it was required, etc. So, where would a non-specialized veterinary surgeon fit in? Or, for that matter, veterinary surgeons who have specialized in an area but are 'vet neuro surgeons' rather than 'vet neurologists'?

Ok makes sense. Thanks. So that means that Vet cardiologists and neurologists can perform surgery just in that category?

It may depend on location (not sure whether there are differences between US and Canada?), but I've shadowed a bunch of SA surgeons and they've all either a) worked at a ER/referral hospital, or b) worked at a teaching hospital (eg. OVC). There aren't that many boarded surgeons out in regular GP clinics. I've never seen a cardiologist/neurologist perform surgery, they've always passed on the surgical patients to soft tissue surgeons (or ortho for spinal surgeries) once they've made their diagnosis, and then they would follow-up with the post-op after care, rechecks, rehab/physio (for neuro patients) etc.

I did shadow one vet overseas (Edinburgh graduate) who "specialized" in ortho (as in he liked ortho surgeries the most) but he was also the only surgeon in a referral practice (with internal med/onco specialists), so he was responsible for ALL surgical patients (neuro, ortho, soft tissue, cardio, urogenital, etc). So there isn't really a need to specialize a surgical field because there will be surgeons that are comfortable performing a wide range of surgeries but I think he's in the minority. Most surgeons I've come across do specialize because they can focus on a subset of techniques and become really proficient at performing them.

 

[JaynaAli]

I did an externship at a specialty clinic with several board certified surgeons. They were all trained in everything, but two focused on ortho and one did soft tissue. This clinic had a board certified neurologist too and she did most of her own neuro surgeries, but when a ventral slot she was doing when I was there started to bleed excessively she called in one of the older surgeons to assist her and give her his input. On the other hand, at my school the cardiologist doesn't do heart surgeries to my knowledge...he passes the actual cutting off to the surgeons but handles the rest of the case pre and post op. So I think it varies quite a bit.

 

[allygator13]

I just started working as an assistant at a surgery referral practice. One doctor does mainly orthopedic surgeries, but he is capable of doing any others he wants to. The other surgeon focuses on soft tissue and will only do orthopedic procedures on small dogs. So once you're a board certified surgeon, you can choose what kind of surgery you want to do if you so choose, or you can do everything. I do remember the orthopedic surgeon saying that you used to have to take a special class from the inventor of the TPLO procedure to be able to perform it because the inventor had patented it. I'm not sure how this works anymore since the patent has run out, but sometimes there are things like that that could restrict a surgeon from doing certain procedures.