Volunteering for Pregnancy Center over summer?

[thegreatandmythical227]

Hi,

I was looking to do some volunteering over my M1 summer in my spare time (in addition to research) so I was considering volunteering for a crisis pregnancy center near me. I helped out a friend running the place here and there a few years ago before medical school, and would be interested in having more a major role. I did mention it in my interview to medical school, and my interviewer seemed to praise it, saying we need more people your age fighting for what's right. I really do support their mission. Thoughts on how this would look to residencies? Thanks

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[wanderingorion]

If you are passionate/interested in it, do it. I'm sure it will look good on an app.

 

[deleted480308]

Hi,

I was looking to do some volunteering over my M1 summer in my spare time (in addition to research) so I was considering volunteering for a crisis pregnancy center near me. I helped out a friend running the place here and there a few years ago before medical school, and would be interested in having more a major role. I did mention it in my interview to medical school, and my interviewer seemed to praise it, saying we need more people your age fighting for what's right. I really do support their mission. Thoughts on how this would look to residencies? Thanks

some attendings will be like it, some won't

do what you find to be appropriate with your time

 

[jhenj529]

What would be your role at the center?

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

What would be your role at the center?

I would be running patient consults. I met with the manager the other day, and she's very excited to have me. According to her, they don't typically have medical professionals directly on the site

 

[deleted480308]

I would be running patient consults. I met with the manager the other day, and she's very excited to have me. According to her, they don't typically have medical professionals directly on the site

just to clarify, you are an M1. That is not a medical professional

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

just to clarify, you are an M1. That is not a medical professional

Correct. She said that I wouldn't be able to give out medical advice to patients because that would be against the law, but rather talk to them about the decision regarding pregnancy. I was always confused when event though she says there's no medical professionals there, everyone has a white coat like garment on. Come to think of it, I really didn't help them out last time. I just accompanied my friend there as she dropped off some papers.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

Depends on what residency your applying to and where; most probably won’t care, it has the potential to hurt you if applying to obgyn residency, though there are certainly individual attendings and probably a few PDs who would not look at it unfavorably

 

[IMGASMD]

Depends on what you eventually settle on. Couldn’t hurt, just depends on how you frame it when you apply.

You’re a MS1, do as much in as many different fields as you want. Just realize later on, there are always something you don’t like to do in your future speciality. Don’t think anyone can be 100% happy about their field 100% of the time.

 

[Mass Effect]

Depends on what residency your applying to and where; most probably won’t care, it has the potential to hurt you if applying to obgyn residency, though there are certainly individual attendings and probably a few PDs who would not look at it unfavorably

Disagree that there would be a difference in terms of potential for negative feedback if applying for OB residency. If anything, OB residency would be the most understanding as this is what they do so often (counsel women about options in crisis pregnancies).

OP, I'm confused by what the center is and what your role would be. I assume this is Planned Parenthood or a Planned Parenthood type of place? Or is it a straight-up abortion clinic? Or is it a sexual assault center? Would you be counseling women on abortions versus adoption? Do you have experience in this kind of thing? I'm really confused on your qualifications. Just being an MS 1 doesn't make you qualified to do what you're presenting here without some major training (and one med school summer will not afford you adequate time to do that training). Do you have previous experience with this type of thing? And if not, are you sure they don't want you to just check patients in or something? The details are important because it determines whether or not the experience is worth it or if you'd be better off just chilling before school starts again (keep in mind, this is your last summer, at least until the end of residency/fellowship).

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

Disagree that there would be a difference in terms of potential for negative feedback if applying for OB residency. If anything, OB residency would be the most understanding as this is what they do so often (counsel women about options in crisis pregnancies).

OP, I'm confused by what the center is and what your role would be. I assume this is Planned Parenthood or a Planned Parenthood type of place? Or is it a straight-up abortion clinic? Or is it a sexual assault center? Would you be counseling women on abortions versus adoption? Do you have experience in this kind of thing? I'm really confused on your qualifications. Just being an MS 1 doesn't make you qualified to do what you're presenting here without some major training (and one med school summer will not afford you adequate time to do that training). Do you have previous experience with this type of thing? And if not, are you sure they don't want you to just check patients in or something? The details are important because it determines whether or not the experience is worth it or if you'd be better off just chilling before school starts again (keep in mind, this is your last summer, at least until the end of residency/fellowship).

It's similar, but she says it holds different values. The goal of the center is to advocate for non-surgical means related to unexpected pregnancies. There's an emphasis on adoption and other resources for future mothers, and I believe a few of the state politicians have put funding into it, at least according to her. Basically I would wear my whitecoat, show pts some sort of video, and educate them on the process. I don't have any experience, but she said that's okay, and she would be willing to mentor and educate me. She said that the fact that I'm midway through my medical education is a giant plus, as even though I'm not qualified to give medical advice, my presence makes patients trust the center more

 

[Dr G Oogle]

Disagree that there would be a difference in terms of potential for negative feedback if applying for OB residency. If anything, OB residency would be the most understanding as this is what they do so often (counsel women about options in crisis pregnancies).

OP, I'm confused by what the center is and what your role would be. I assume this is Planned Parenthood or a Planned Parenthood type of place? Or is it a straight-up abortion clinic? Or is it a sexual assault center? Would you be counseling women on abortions versus adoption? Do you have experience in this kind of thing? I'm really confused on your qualifications. Just being an MS 1 doesn't make you qualified to do what you're presenting here without some major training (and one med school summer will not afford you adequate time to do that training). Do you have previous experience with this type of thing? And if not, are you sure they don't want you to just check patients in or something? The details are important because it determines whether or not the experience is worth it or if you'd be better off just chilling before school starts again (keep in mind, this is your last summer, at least until the end of residency/fellowship).

For the record I did an OB residency. I assume the OP is talking about something like this Why Crisis Pregnancy Centers Are Legal but Unethical

Which is the opposite of what a doctor, planned parenthood or other similar organization does when counseling patients on pregnancy options. In obgyn these crisis centers are considered to be on the fringe and are felt to do more harm than good. Now it’s not the message that’s the problem (everyone regardless of specialty is allowed their own belief system without impacting patient care) it’s rather How these many of these centers formulate the information they disseminate and who is giving out this information (namely lay people with no medical background) as the OP alluded to in their post “...they seldom have medical professionals”.

So yes many OB programs would not look on this experience in a positive light, again not because that these organizations try to prevent abortions but because they are associated with misinformation.

 

[Mass Effect]

It's similar, but she says it holds different values. The goal of the center is to advocate for non-surgical means related to unexpected pregnancies. There's an emphasis on adoption and other resources for future mothers, and I believe a few of the state politicians have put funding into it, at least according to her. Basically I would wear my whitecoat, show pts some sort of video, and educate them on the process

What do you mean by educate them on the process? Again, the details are important. Would you just read them a brochure or would you have a genuine conversation with them about their options?

Also the bolded part is a red flag that tells me you don't know much about the center itself. Never, ever take a job some place where you don't do independent research on it. The last thing you need is to trust what your friend is telling you and go to work there to find out the values she told you about are buried under the values government officials expect you to have. These centers are very political. You need to do your own research on what goes on, the reputation of the place, which officials donate to it and why. After that, get a better sense on exactly what you'd be doing. Turning on a video and answering questions about the center doesn't seem like anything that's going to help you or hurt you in the residency process and if that's the case, my advice would be to chill this summer.

 

[Mass Effect]

For the record I did an OB residency. I assume the OP is talking about something like this Why Crisis Pregnancy Centers Are Legal but Unethical

Which is the opposite of what a doctor, planned parenthood or other similar organization does when counseling patients on pregnancy options. In obgyn these crisis centers are considered to be on the fringe and are felt to do more harm than good. Now it’s not the message that’s the problem (everyone regardless of specialty is allowed their own belief system without impacting patient care) it’s rather How these many of these centers formulate the information they disseminate and who is giving out this information (namely lay people with no medical background) as the OP alluded to in their post “...they seldom have medical professionals”.

So yes many OB programs would not look on this experience in a positive light, again not because that these organizations try to prevent abortions but because they are associated with misinformation.

Got it. OP, read the above. I take back what I said about it not hurting you in OB residency. But it emphasizes what I said about doing research on any place you work.

ETA: After reading that link, I think this has the potential to hurt the OP no matter what residency he/she does. I would avoid it.

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

What do you mean by educate them on the process? Again, the details are important. Would you just read them a brochure or would you have a genuine conversation with them about their options?

Also the bolded part is a red flag that tells me you don't know much about the center itself. Never, ever take a job some place where you don't do independent research on it. The last thing you need is to trust what your friend is telling you and go to work there to find out the values she told you about are buried under the values government officials expect you to have. These centers are very political. You need to do your own research on what goes on, the reputation of the place, which officials donate to it and why. After that, get a better sense on exactly what you'd be doing. Turning on a video and answering questions about the center doesn't seem like anything that's going to help you or hurt you in the residency process and if that's the case, my advice would be to chill this summer.

Basically by encouraging them to not terminate the pregnancy due to the many risks associated with that "behavior." She considers herself a "holier" version of a planned parenthood. I'd be able to give the pt an ultrasound and give patients a pregnancy test too, and she would train me on this. It would be nice to get training on those things in a low stress environment.

 

[Mass Effect]

Basically by encouraging them to not terminate the pregnancy due to the many risks associated with that behavior. I'd be able to give the pt an ultrasound and give patients a pregnancy test too, and she would train me on this. It would be nice to get training on those things in a low stress environment.

Avoid this. First of all, how do you know the risks associated with that "behavior"? You're an MS1, which means you'll likely be parroting what others have told you to say and you have no idea how much of it is actually true. Second, unless she's an ultrasound tech, don't assume you'd learn the right way. Again, these places are incredibly political and you'll be tying up your name and reputation with a place that could be viewed as unethical and shady. You, as an MS 1, have the pro of being referred to as a med student, but don't have the knowledge to know what is misleading information and what isn't and people will take advantage of that.

 

[Sephirakra]

It's similar, but she says it holds different values. The goal of the center is to advocate for non-surgical means related to unexpected pregnancies. There's an emphasis on adoption and other resources for future mothers, and I believe a few of the state politicians have put funding into it, at least according to her. Basically I would wear my whitecoat, show pts some sort of video, and educate them on the process. I don't have any experience, but she said that's okay, and she would be willing to mentor and educate me. She said that the fact that I'm midway through my medical education is a giant plus, as even though I'm not qualified to give medical advice, my presence makes patients trust the center more

If you're planning to wear your school's white coat, make sure to clear it with admin before you start. Anytime you wear it you're an ambassador of that institution, and they may or may not want the connection.

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

If you're planning to wear your school's white coat, make sure to clear it with admin before you start. Anytime you wear it you're an ambassador of that institution, and they may or may not want the connection.

I got told to avoid bringing that up to the school. She just said don't wear your clinical ID

 

[Sephirakra]

I got told to avoid bringing that up to the school. She just said don't wear your clinical ID

I'm confused. They want you to wear your white coat but not tell your school? That's an ethical issue that should be a giant red flag.

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

I'm confused. They want you to wear your white coat but not tell your school? That's an ethical issue that should be a giant red flag.

Everyone wears a white coat there, that's why I was confused. I think the point is that it would save them money if I did so. I brought up my interest in an organization with similar values during my medical school interview, and he said we needed more people like you, because it's insane how the country supports this, as well as it is crazy with what these kids get away with from day to day. He was a PhD

 

[Sephirakra]

Everyone wears a white coat there, that's why I was confused. I brought up my interest in an organization with similar values during my medical school interview, and he said we needed more people like you, because it's insane what these kids get away with from day to day. He was a PhD

Right, but I'm specifically talking about the white coat you have from your school. If you're just wearing a plain white coat that the center provides, then there's no issue and I apologize if I misunderstood. But if they want you to wear your short coat with the insignia of your school on it to add an air of legitimacy, then walk away.

Although I personally object to everyone wearing a white coat there if aren't usually medical personnel onsite.

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

Right, but I'm specifically talking about the white coat you have from your school. If you're just wearing a plain white coat that the center provides, then there's no issue and I apologize if I misunderstood. But if they want you to wear your short coat with the insignia of your school on it to add an air of legitimacy, then walk away.

Although I personally object to everyone wearing a white coat there if aren't usually medical personnel onsite.

Gotcha. I think my white coat is plain. She's apparently works part time at Goldman's Sacs, so that's her main line of work. Later today I'm going to meet with her to hear more about the opportunity and discuss some of the concerns people brought up, I'll keep you updated. If anyone else has input, let me know

 

[deleted480308]

100% full stop do not wear your school's white coat at any time you aren't doing a school approved activity.

 

[IMGASMD]

I got told to avoid bringing that up to the school. She just said don't wear your clinical ID

Now thats sketchy.

 

[Mass Effect]

Everyone wears a white coat there, that's why I was confused. I think the point is that it would save them money if I did so. I brought up my interest in an organization with similar values during my medical school interview, and he said we needed more people like you, because it's insane how the country supports this, as well as it is crazy with what these kids get away with from day to day. He was a PhD

How this country supports what? Who gets away with stuff from day to day?

There are so many red flags here, I'm genuinely surprised you still think this could be a good idea.

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

How this country supports what? Who gets away with stuff from day to day?

There are so many red flags here, I'm genuinely surprised you still think this could be a good idea.

If I had to guess, he was referring to abortion, and maybe has this idea in head that the one's getting them primarily are promiscuous college girls.

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

Update:
I just came back and it ways very sketchy to say the least. I met the lady and I liked her overall message about termination of pregnancy, but it seemed like she was going the wrong way. I will say when I was there I felt somewhat happy, like I was making a difference. I don't think I'm going to do it. Basically what she wanted me to do was follow a script that is displayed on the computer that challenged any idea that was anti-life. One thing that really turned me off was that she basically got on her knees at the end and asked me to volunteer with her and make this issue right, which creeped me out.I'm all about convincing people, just don't want to misinform them. An example of one idea was that abortion -> increased depression rates with women and that. Also, I wasn't sure on this one, but can abortion cause breast cancer?

 

[deleted480308]

Update:
I just came back and it ways very sketchy to say the least. I met the lady and I liked her overall message about termination of pregnancy, but it seemed like she was going the wrong way. I will say when I was there I felt somewhat happy, like I was making a difference. I don't think I'm going to do it. Basically what she wanted me to do was follow a script that is displayed on the computer that challenged any idea that was anti-life. One thing that really turned me off was that she basically got on her knees at the end and asked me to volunteer with her and make this issue right, which creeped me out.I'm all about convincing people, just don't want to misinform them. An example of one idea was that abortion -> increased depression rates with women and that. Also, I wasn't sure on this one, but can abortion cause breast cancer?

The reason to be opposed to elective abortion is because it's killing an innocent human, not because of concerns for depression/cancer which are not shown to be related to the best of my knowledge

 

[Dr G Oogle]

[QUOTE="thegreatandmythical227, post: . Also, I wasn't sure on this one, but can abortion cause breast cancer?
[/QUOTE]

Nope.

 

[Mass Effect]

Ugh. What a horrible organization. I'm glad you said no. Frankly, if a friend of mine worked there, I'd have serious concerns about his/her ethics.

 

[AMEHigh]

Sorry don’t have time to read all the replies, but if you’re serious about medicine DO NOT DO THIS.

Regardless of your views on abortion, crisis pregnancy centers blatantly lie to people. As a physician one shouldn’t support such a place. They typically do not have any medical professionals in their centers, they are not regulated like medical facilities.

There are definitely better options for volunteering.

 

[deleted480308]

Sorry don’t have time to read all the replies, but if you’re serious about medicine DO NOT DO THIS.

Regardless of your views on abortion, crisis pregnancy centers blatantly lie to people. As a physician one shouldn’t support such a place. They typically do not have any medical professionals in their centers, they are not regulated like medical facilities.

There are definitely better options for volunteering.

Some lie. Some are honest about both their biases and limitations

 

[AMEHigh]

Some lie. Some are honest about both their biases and limitations

Yes, which is why it would be a horrible place to volunteer if one is looking to be a doctor and not something one should put on their resume/CV in regards to anything medically related.

 

[deleted480308]

Yes, which is why it would be a horrible place to volunteer if one is looking to be a doctor and not something one should put on their resume/CV in regards to anything medically related.

I think it’s fine as a volunteer activity. It’s not likely to be an appropriate “medical” activity as what most of those programs do isn’t actually medicine despite being a good service if they do it honestly

 

[AMEHigh]

I think it’s fine as a volunteer activity. It’s not likely to be an appropriate “medical” activity as what most of those programs do isn’t actually medicine despite being a good service if they do it honestly

The OP asked how this would look to residencies. I do not think it’s a fine volunteer activity. Like I said, regardless of your view of abortion, I think it’s a moral character flaw as a physician to be involved in any volunteer activity, especially one that deals directly with medical decisions, in which you will be put in the position to potentially lie to people. I certainly would not want to rank such a person in my program and it’s not because they are pro-life, but because they are associating themselves with organizations that lie to people about medical care and decisions.

Now that I’ve skimmed through, I’m glad to see that OP has decided against this volunteer activity. There are plenty of ways one can be pro-life without being involved in the business of lying to people.

 

[deleted480308]

The OP asked how this would look to residencies. I do not think it’s a fine volunteer activity. Like I said, regardless of your view of abortion, I think it’s a moral character flaw as a physician to be involved in any volunteer activity, especially one that deals directly with medical decisions, in which you will be put in the position to potentially lie to people. I certainly would not want to rank such a program in my program and it’s not because they are pro-life, but because they are associating themselves with organizations that lie to people about medical care and decisions.

Now that I’ve skimmed through, I’m glad to see that OP has decided against this volunteer activity. There are plenty of ways one can be pro-life without being involved in the business of lying to people.

And one of the ways to be prolife without lying is to volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center.

Not all of them lie.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think it’s fine as a volunteer activity. It’s not likely to be an appropriate “medical” activity as what most of those programs do isn’t actually medicine despite being a good service if they do it honestly

And one of the ways to be prolife without lying is to volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center.

Not all of them lie.

But this one does. They're unethical. I wouldn't be surprised if they want the OP only because he comes with a short white coat.

 

[Weirdy]

They want you for the legitimacy it will bring to the people coming to the clinic with no risk on their part.
Which is why everyone wears white coats but no one has medical training.
Which is why they want you to wear your white coat but get rid of your name tag/ ID.

I am very conservative regarding views on life and abortion, but I highly advise you not get involved.

There are better ways. Go volunteer at a legitimate free health clinic that provides services to the uninsured or something else instead.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

I help out with residency interviews and help make the final rank list. If I saw this on an application I would immediately make that person a Do Not Rank; regardless of other things like board scores, LORs etc. Not because people are pro-life, that is a perfectly valid position and we have attendings, residents and midwives who are pro life who I am proud work with but because it demonstrates an individuals capacity to engage in practices which are perceived (mostly deservedly) as misleading to patients when our mission in Medicine is to provide honest and ethical care. Now I am in obgyn and people in this field know a bit more than others about these centers. But all it takes is a simple google search by a PD from other specialties and the first hits are to articles like the one I attached earlier (I know because that’s how I found it) and immediately that applicant will be seen from a different perspective, and most likely not a positive one. You may find some sympathetic PDs that may even support these centers, medicine is a diverse field after all, but it is truly not a risk worth taking. If you really want to volunteer at these centers at least don’t advertise it on ERAS or your CV because it will not help make you a better applicant. As a medical student there are plenty of well recognized organization which are pro life with whom you could collaborate.

But from what the OP described about these centers and what they wanted him/her to do, sketchy doesn’t even begin to describe it.

 

[deleted480308]

But this one does. They're unethical. I wouldn't be surprised if they want the OP only because he comes with a short white coat.

I agree with this place being unethical

The argument I was having with AME was against their premise that all of them are, I don’t think that’s true

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

Do you think it would be realistic to set up a prolife medical school club at medical school? There's already an anti-life/pro-choice one. If I couldn't do that, could I do a students for trump club, or would that be to charged?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Do you think it would be realistic to set up a prolife medical school club at medical school? There's already an anti-life/pro-choice one. If I couldn't do that, could I do a students for trump club, or would that be to charged?

You can do whatever you want, but there is a lot to be said for keeping your head down and unless you're at Liberty COM then holding this opinions loudly could cause you problems.

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

You can do whatever you want, but there is a lot to be said for keeping your head down and unless you're at Liberty COM then holding this opinions loudly could cause you problems.

Crazy that the other side attacks us yet were the one's silenced. What happened to tolerance and acceptance? I guess it only applies if you agree with them. But thanks for the headsup

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Crazy that the other side attacks us yet were the one's silenced. What happened to tolerance and acceptance? I guess it only applies if you agree with them. But thanks for the headsup

I'd say the same if someone wanted to start a branch of Planned Parenthood at med school, so settle down.

You'll have a long career where you can do whatever you want with pet causes, med school/residency is not that time given how pissing off the wrong person can end said career before it even starts.

 

[AMEHigh]

Do you think it would be realistic to set up a prolife medical school club at medical school? There's already an anti-life/pro-choice one. If I couldn't do that, could I do a students for trump club, or would that be to charged?

I’ve never heard of an anti-life group.
Yes obviously starting a group specifically for Trump would be too charged. And what would happen when he’s no longer president in 2 or 6 years?

There are plenty of ways to get involved with issues that are important to you outside of school. There are several things that I do outside of work that aren’t on my resume.

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

I’ve never heard of an anti-life group.
Yes obviously starting a group specifically for Trump would be too charged. And what would happen when he’s no longer president in 2 or 6 years?

There are plenty of ways to get involved with issues that are important to you outside of school. There are several things that I do outside of work that aren’t on my resume.

Anti life = pro choice to many. Sorry for making that clear.

 

[deleted480308]

You can do whatever you want, but there is a lot to be said for keeping your head down and unless you're at Liberty COM then holding this opinions loudly could cause you problems.

Yeah, I’m openly prolife but I’m not starting conversations about it during training

They can always hurt you more

 

[differentiating]

Yeah, as people have noted these crisis centers have a rep for intimidating women and outright lying to them about their options to promote their pro-birth ideals. I’m not going into OB, but that’d still raise a pretty major red flag - a willingness to lie to & coerce patients, as well as suggesting a lack of understanding of evidence-based medicine.

I also recommend to OP that you do more research on abortion prior to ever doing any counseling regarding it. From your posts and questions, it sounds like you don’t have a full understanding of the pros and cons. Even if your objection is religious, your obligations as a doctor include referring patients who want abortions to physicians who will perform the procedure.

 

[thegreatandmythical227]

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, as people have noted these crisis centers have a rep for intimidating women and outright lying to them about their options to promote their pro-birth ideals. I’m not going into OB, but that’d still raise a pretty major red flag - a willingness to lie to & coerce patients, as well as suggesting a lack of understanding of evidence-based medicine.

I also recommend to OP that you do more research on abortion prior to ever doing any counseling regarding it. From your posts and questions, it sounds like you don’t have a full understanding of the pros and cons. Even if your objection is religious, your obligations as a doctor include referring patients who want abortions to physicians who will perform the procedure.

Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm uninformed

 

[AMEHigh]

Anti life = pro choice to many. Sorry for making that clear.

Got it. That’s not the correct term.
I’m not anti-life.
As a doctor, pregnancy options counseling should include all options regardless of what one would do themselves, hence the term pro-choice. I’m certainly supportive of all my patients whom choose to have children (regardless of their circumstances or whether or not their child will survive) and don’t try to talk them out of their choice.

If you’re going to be a doctor words certainly matter.