Volunteering

[jesseealicia]

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I've recently called a bunch of local clinics in hopes to get someone to say yes to shadowing their veterinarian. Fortunately one (out of all of them in my city) said yes... So I started there, and it seems to me that I'm shadowing their vet techs/vet assistants.
There was a euthanasia of a feline today and I've never seen one performed, so I was looking forward to watching. They sent me into another room to fold their laundry for the clinic and when I got done I came back and the cat was already euthanized and put into a bag. The veterinarian has talked to me maybe twice, and both times she's told me to ask the vet tech what I needed to do. They've had me clean kennels, cages, exam rooms. I've witnessed one exam being done on a cat, because the vet tech the veterinarian has me following had to hold the cat down.

How do I approach the clinic about me shadowing the VET and not the TECHS? It's a one veterinarian clinic, with one tech and three assistants. Is following the tech around and doing kennel work still considered veterinarian experience? Or would it be considered Animal experience?

I'm also volunteering as a Bark Buddy for my local SPCA, so I have experience already with "getting dirty." Walking dogs, cleaning kennels, cages, grooming.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I've recently called a bunch of local clinics in hopes to get someone to say yes to shadowing their veterinarian. Fortunately one (out of all of them in my city) said yes... So I started there, and it seems to me that I'm shadowing their vet techs/vet assistants.
There was a euthanasia of a feline today and I've never seen one performed, so I was looking forward to watching. They sent me into another room to fold their laundry for the clinic and when I got done I came back and the cat was already euthanized and put into a bag. The veterinarian has talked to me maybe twice, and both times she's told me to ask the vet tech what I needed to do. They've had me clean kennels, cages, exam rooms. I've witnessed one exam being done on a cat, because the vet tech the veterinarian has me following had to hold the cat down.

How do I approach the clinic about me shadowing the VET and not the TECHS? It's a one veterinarian clinic, with one tech and three assistants. Is following the tech around and doing kennel work still considered veterinarian experience? Or would it be considered Animal experience?

I'm also volunteering as a Bark Buddy for my local SPCA, so I have experience already with "getting dirty." Walking dogs, cleaning kennels, cages, grooming.

If you've only been there a short time, it's entirely possible the doctor is trying to let you get your feet wet before she throws you into euthanasia. This may not be what's going on, but I'm giving the doctor the benefit of the doubt. Not every person who calls up asking to shadow is okay with watching euthanasia (sometimes they don't know themselves until they see one), and the doctor also may need to get to know you before she feels comfortable having you present in front of clients and whatnot. Again, benefit of the doubt.

Frankly, I don't think it's reasonable to have a volunteer/shadow doing laundry or deep cleaning. If they have nothing going on, they should send you home. It's turning into free labor at that point. I suggest asking the veterinarian if it's possible for you to be more involved in her day, such as being present for exams and procedures. If she blows you off or nothing changes for the better after a few weeks, start looking for another clinic.

As for categorizing the experience, technically it's veterinary since the vet had a say in your shadowing, and she is still your supervisor. However, you really aren't observing anything veterinary related yet. It's a little fuzzy.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

If you've only been there a short time, it's entirely possible the doctor is trying to let you get your feet wet before she throws you into euthanasia. This may not be what's going on, but I'm giving the doctor the benefit of the doubt. Not every person who calls up asking to shadow is okay with watching euthanasia (sometimes they don't know themselves until they see one), and the doctor also may need to get to know you before she feels comfortable having you present in front of clients and whatnot. Again, benefit of the doubt.

Frankly, I don't think it's reasonable to have a volunteer/shadow doing laundry or deep cleaning. If they have nothing going on, they should send you home. It's turning into free labor at that point. I suggest asking the veterinarian if it's possible for you to be more involved in her day, such as being present for exams and procedures. If she blows you off or nothing changes for the better after a few weeks, start looking for another clinic.

As for categorizing the experience, technically it's veterinary since the vet had a say in your shadowing, and she is still your supervisor. However, you really aren't observing anything veterinary related yet. It's a little fuzzy.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. How long have you been there? I don't think shadowing primarily technicians for the first week or two is unreasonable, until everyone can get a handle on your personality, level of professionalism, etc. Having a shadow in the room with clients is not something a vet is going to do until they are sure you can behave yourself.

 

[battie]

If you've only been there a short time, it's entirely possible the doctor is trying to let you get your feet wet before she throws you into euthanasia. This may not be what's going on, but I'm giving the doctor the benefit of the doubt. Not every person who calls up asking to shadow is okay with watching euthanasia (sometimes they don't know themselves until they see one), and the doctor also may need to get to know you before she feels comfortable having you present in front of clients and whatnot. Again, benefit of the doubt.

Frankly, I don't think it's reasonable to have a volunteer/shadow doing laundry or deep cleaning. If they have nothing going on, they should send you home. It's turning into free labor at that point. I suggest asking the veterinarian if it's possible for you to be more involved in her day, such as being present for exams and procedures. If she blows you off or nothing changes for the better after a few weeks, start looking for another clinic.

As for categorizing the experience, technically it's veterinary since the vet had a say in your shadowing, and she is still your supervisor. However, you really aren't observing anything veterinary related yet. It's a little fuzzy.

Again, totes agree. Doctors don't want to alienate clients with a new shadow, so they are probably trying to feel you to see what kind of person you are.

I disagree with PP on the volunteer thing, though (which is odd cause we're normally on the same page). I feel like people kind of have to "earn their way" so to speak. You work your way up to the cool stuff by doing the crummy stuff.

 

[jesseealicia]

You guys are correct, I haven't been volunteering with them for that long. Less than a month. I just feel like I haven't seen or got hands on experience with anything yet. Also, with the things the vet tech does, I don't even get hands on experience with the animals. Just the animal belongings.

 

[orca2011]

You guys are correct, I haven't been volunteering with them for that long. Less than a month. I just feel like I haven't seen or got hands on experience with anything yet. Also, with the things the vet tech does, I don't even get hands on experience with the animals. Just the animal belongings.

If you're truly just a shadow, you might not get hands on experience. A lot of what you get to do is determine by liability policies and such. Shadowing still counts for vet school apps though.

 

[rockatiel]

I shadowed/watched techs before I did anything with/for my vets. By the end of my experiences, I was doing more. They're just getting you started. You can't just throw the most nervous person ever (not saying you are but I was) in to interact with clients. You'll have to prove yourself a bit. Not everyone handles euthanasia the best so she may have had you fold laundry so you wouldn't have to see it yet. Just prove yourself to them and you will get to do more!

 

[jesseealicia]

I did want to see it, and I was okay with seeing it. And yes, I did tell her this. The vet tech wanted me to see it. But the vet didn't even care if I was in the room, the tech said she just wanted to get it out of the way.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Again, totes agree. Doctors don't want to alienate clients with a new shadow, so they are probably trying to feel you to see what kind of person you are.

I disagree with PP on the volunteer thing, though (which is odd cause we're normally on the same page). I feel like people kind of have to "earn their way" so to speak. You work your way up to the cool stuff by doing the crummy stuff.

I do agree with that, but I feel there's a line that shouldn't be crossed. Having a new volunteer doing some light cleaning isn't as big of a deal, but expecting volunteers to scrub floors or be responsible for laundry on a regular basis crosses that line IMO. If the clinic has a dead day and a volunteer is being told to scrub floors, chances are the paid employees could do it instead and the volunteer could go home or learn her way around the clinic. The entire staff knows you're there for veterinary experience, so regularly using an unpaid employee to do your cleaning seems exploitative to me. Don't even get me started on keeping the volunteer around, but sending the paid employees home. I think that might be illegal, though.

I've had a couple of working interviews where I honestly felt I was just there to do some unpaid work before they found a better applicant. For one clinic, I worked a 1o hour day doing a lot of cleaning, didn't get the job. For another, I came in for 3 days in a row, doing a lot of cleaning and occasionally helping with exams. Didn't get the job there, either, and I found out later a few classmates did the exact same thing. I've only have one working interview where I was paid for my time (I'm not saying this should be customary, but only a few people really appreciate time like that). It doesn't sound like the line has been crossed in the OP's case, but it's definitely something to keep in mind. When you start to feel like you're not learning anything because you're doing all of the dirty work, it's time to move on.

 

[jesseealicia]

The vet assistant told me she feels bad for making me clean the dog runs because even she hates doing it. The vet said I need to get my hands dirty because all veterinarian students get their hands dirty eventually.

I already have experience getting my hands dirty at the shelter.

 

[jesseealicia]

I wouldn't mind cleaning a little bit a day, but when I'm there for 3-5 hours and all I do is basically clean and follow someone around without learning anything at all...it gets a little odd. I feel like I should be an employee.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

You guys are correct, I haven't been volunteering with them for that long. Less than a month. I just feel like I haven't seen or got hands on experience with anything yet. Also, with the things the vet tech does, I don't even get hands on experience with the animals. Just the animal belongings.

If you are shadowing there, you shouldn't have your hands on anything (animals, or laundry) - shadows are there to watch and (when time permits) discuss things. If you're there to volunteer and work, I'm not surprised you haven't gotten any hands-on experience with animals yet......especially if you're not there full time. It requires training, and trusting a volunteer to a) not injure patients and b) not allow the vet or staff to get injured isn't something that will come easily.

 

[jesseealicia]

I asked them if I could shadow the veterinarian, and this is what I'm doing. I wouldn't mind helping out though, just not excessive like it's seemingly so.
If they're going to make me do all this work, I should be able to get some hands on work. I wouldn't mind just following the vet around into exam rooms and not saying anything or touching anything. I would still be learning how she interacts with the clients and their animals. She is the only veterinarian, and she has a boarding service at her clinic.

 

[WildZoo]

If you're there as a volunteer, it makes sense that they're putting you to work. I mean, if you signed up as a volunteer, that is kind of what you sign up for. But if you're specifically there to shadow then it makes less sense for you to be cleaning when you could be watching someone do actual medical stuff.

Either way, I wouldn't expect you to get much hands on experience with the animals for a good while (if ever, depending on the clinic). Many clinics don't have insurance to cover volunteers/shadows.

 

[jesseealicia]

I'm supposed to be a shadow.

 

[WildZoo]

I'm supposed to be a shadow.

Then I would have a discussion about it with them, saying that you expected to be able to shadow, and not so much to be doing cleaning and such which takes away from your shadowing time.

I had a situation very similar to yours, but I had signed on as a volunteer, so it was par for the course. After a couple months (I only went for a few hours once a week) I was allowed to help with things a bit more. But if I had signed on specifically to shadow the vet and that was what they had told me I would be doing, I wouldn't have been happy in that situation. Honestly I wasn't that happy for a while anyway, but that was because there was a lot of down time where I was staring at walls.

I've had a couple of working interviews where I honestly felt I was just there to do some unpaid work before they found a better applicant. For one clinic, I worked a 1o hour day doing a lot of cleaning, didn't get the job. For another, I came in for 3 days in a row, doing a lot of cleaning and occasionally helping with exams.

I think this was discussed on the veterinary forum, that kind of working interview is most likely illegal. I've never had one that was more than 2 hours long and it was more about shadowing and maybe demonstrating a couple skills than it was about actually doing unpaid work.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Then I would have a discussion about it with them, saying that you expected to be able to shadow, and not so much to be doing cleaning and such which takes away from your shadowing time.

I had a situation very similar to yours, but I had signed on as a volunteer, so it was par for the course. After a couple months (I only went for a few hours once a week) I was allowed to help with things a bit more. But if I had signed on specifically to shadow the vet and that was what they had told me I would be doing, I wouldn't have been happy in that situation. Honestly I wasn't that happy for a while anyway, but that was because there was a lot of down time where I was staring at walls.


I think this was discussed on the veterinary forum, that kind of working interview is most likely illegal. I've never had one that was more than 2 hours long and it was more about shadowing and maybe demonstrating a couple skills than it was about actually doing unpaid work.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was illegal. Young(er) me didn't think about things like that back then. The vet that paid me for my working interview is still one of the most respectable people I know today.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

You've got to keep in mind a couple things. First off, a euthanasia is a very emotional thing, especially if the owner stays. Having a shadow stick around for that isn't always appropriate depending on the situation and the client/patient. Furthermore, if you are new the vet may just have not felt comfortable throwing you in to such a situation yet.

I'd give it some time. If it was me, I'd do what they asked and prove my worth (but that's just me).

 

[battie]

I did want to see it, and I was okay with seeing it. And yes, I did tell her this. The vet tech wanted me to see it. But the vet didn't even care if I was in the room, the tech said she just wanted to get it out of the way.

You stated that you've never seen a euthanasia before. There's really no way of knowing if you'll be okay for a euthanasia until you see one. With my first vet experience, the vet knew I had seen multiple euthanasias and natural passings before and still waited about two months before letting me be present for a euthanasia. At that clinic, I was never present for a client involved euthanasia. I wasn't involved with a client involved euthanasia until my third clinic, and that's simply because it was understaffed and I was the only paid vet assistant around (with regards to the clinic owner; the second vet there would have let me be present for almost anything). It's more of the vet's comfort level with you seeing a euthanasia and how you'll handle it, especially since you've never seen it happen before.

I do agree with that, but I feel there's a line that shouldn't be crossed. Having a new volunteer doing some light cleaning isn't as big of a deal, but expecting volunteers to scrub floors or be responsible for laundry on a regular basis crosses that line IMO. If the clinic has a dead day and a volunteer is being told to scrub floors, chances are the paid employees could do it instead and the volunteer could go home or learn her way around the clinic. The entire staff knows you're there for veterinary experience, so regularly using an unpaid employee to do your cleaning seems exploitative to me. Don't even get me started on keeping the volunteer around, but sending the paid employees home. I think that might be illegal, though.

I agree with that to a certain extent. It just really depends to me. I had to sign a volunteer contract with the last clinic (before they moved me up to actual employee), and that contract had a list of volunteer responsibilities that included cleaning and stuff. If the information is detailed out for you that you'll be handling the cleaning and such and you still take the position, that's on you at that point. Obviously that's going to be clinic by clinic, too. Granted, at this clinic, there weren't enough staff to get everything done; volunteers helped make that clinic function on any level. I do agree that volunteers should be sent home over staff, 100%.

You guys are correct, I haven't been volunteering with them for that long. Less than a month. I just feel like I haven't seen or got hands on experience with anything yet. Also, with the things the vet tech does, I don't even get hands on experience with the animals. Just the animal belongings.

The vet assistant told me she feels bad for making me clean the dog runs because even she hates doing it. The vet said I need to get my hands dirty because all veterinarian students get their hands dirty eventually.

I already have experience getting my hands dirty at the shelter.

I wouldn't mind cleaning a little bit a day, but when I'm there for 3-5 hours and all I do is basically clean and follow someone around without learning anything at all...it gets a little odd. I feel like I should be an employee.

So, I need some clarification here:

Are you a shadow or a volunteer? You use volunteer in the title for the thread and in many of your responses, but then you'll use shadow, then switch back to volunteer. If you're a volunteer, you're a volunteer. If you're a shadow, you're a shadow.

Got to say, getting your hands dirty doesn't mean the same between different areas of the animal world. I've done kennels in pet stores, clinics, and boarding facilities, and not two places had the same protocols, methods, priorities, or anything really. Getting down and dirty in a vet clinic was way different than the pet stores or the boarding place. Again, you've been there for less than a month. When you have a Great Dane yank a catheter out of their back leg and lay down and roll in their own blood, you'll get the difference.

How often are you there and how much time do you spend? If you're spending only 3-5 hours a week, that's why you haven't gotten to do anything yet. You've spent 9-20 hours over the course of less than a month with people who spend that amount of time with each other within a 24 to 48 hour period. They don't know you, so they're not going to trust you with a lot of stuff yet. That's not them trying to push you out; that's them being responsible with their business, clients, and patients.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

You stated that you've never seen a euthanasia before. There's really no way of knowing if you'll be okay for a euthanasia until you see one. With my first vet experience, the vet knew I had seen multiple euthanasias and natural passings before and still waited about two months before letting me be present for a euthanasia. At that clinic, I was never present for a client involved euthanasia. I wasn't involved with a client involved euthanasia until my third clinic, and that's simply because it was understaffed and I was the only paid vet assistant around (with regards to the clinic owner; the second vet there would have let me be present for almost anything). It's more of the vet's comfort level with you seeing a euthanasia and how you'll handle it, especially since you've never seen it happen before.



I agree with that to a certain extent. It just really depends to me. I had to sign a volunteer contract with the last clinic (before they moved me up to actual employee), and that contract had a list of volunteer responsibilities that included cleaning and stuff. If the information is detailed out for you that you'll be handling the cleaning and such and you still take the position, that's on you at that point. Obviously that's going to be clinic by clinic, too. Granted, at this clinic, there weren't enough staff to get everything done; volunteers helped make that clinic function on any level. I do agree that volunteers should be sent home over staff, 100%.








So, I need some clarification here:

Are you a shadow or a volunteer? You use volunteer in the title for the thread and in many of your responses, but then you'll use shadow, then switch back to volunteer. If you're a volunteer, you're a volunteer. If you're a shadow, you're a shadow.

Got to say, getting your hands dirty doesn't mean the same between different areas of the animal world. I've done kennels in pet stores, clinics, and boarding facilities, and not two places had the same protocols, methods, priorities, or anything really. Getting down and dirty in a vet clinic was way different than the pet stores or the boarding place. Again, you've been there for less than a month. When you have a Great Dane yank a catheter out of their back leg and lay down and roll in their own blood, you'll get the difference.

How often are you there and how much time do you spend? If you're spending only 3-5 hours a week, that's why you haven't gotten to do anything yet. You've spent 9-20 hours over the course of less than a month with people who spend that amount of time with each other within a 24 to 48 hour period. They don't know you, so they're not going to trust you with a lot of stuff yet. That's not them trying to push you out; that's them being responsible with their business, clients, and patients.

True that. I saw my coworkers more than I saw my parents, tbh.

 

[battie]

True that. I saw my coworkers more than I saw my parents, tbh.

Same. We do trivia Wednesday nights at a local old people bar and I would get off between 7 and 8 and come to the bar still in my scrubs. We'd do trivia for two hours, I would go home, shower, go to sleep, and open the next day (hopefully able to leave at 5, which was never a guarantee).

 

[Jess Monster]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was illegal. Young(er) me didn't think about things like that back then. The vet that paid me for my working interview is still one of the most respectable people I know today.

You're right. It's illegal in most instances for a for-profit business to take on volunteers. Definitions might get stretched when you start calling people "job interviewees" but, legally, only non-profit organizations and public organizations (government) can go the route of the unpaid worker/intern/volunteer. If a for-profit does take on an unpaid person, they, by law, are not supposed to be doing work that anyone else gets paid to do. The duties have to be separate and completely unique to that position and the volunteer/intern has to benefit more than the business from the arrangement. The law that specifically deals with this is The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA).

Obviously, businesses break this law frequently and some private businesses probably don't even know it exists until they're being sued for back wages. Go figure.

 

[WildZoo]

Staring at walls was pretty unique to my position as a volunteer

 

[battie]

You're right. It's illegal in most instances for a for-profit business to take on volunteers. Definitions might get stretched when you start calling people "job interviewees" but, legally, only non-profit organizations and public organizations (government) can go the route of the unpaid worker/intern/volunteer. If a for-profit does take on an unpaid person, they, by law, are not supposed to be doing work that anyone else gets paid to do. The duties have to be separate and completely unique to that position and the volunteer/intern has to benefit more than the business from the arrangement. The law that specifically deals with this is The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA).

Obviously, businesses break this law frequently and some private businesses probably don't even know it exists until they're being sued for back wages. Go figure.

Well, I know of one clinic in Aurora, CO that's technically breaking the law....

 

[pinkpuppy9]

You're right. It's illegal in most instances for a for-profit business to take on volunteers. Definitions might get stretched when you start calling people "job interviewees" but, legally, only non-profit organizations and public organizations (government) can go the route of the unpaid worker/intern/volunteer. If a for-profit does take on an unpaid person, they, by law, are not supposed to be doing work that anyone else gets paid to do. The duties have to be separate and completely unique to that position and the volunteer/intern has to benefit more than the business from the arrangement. The law that specifically deals with this is The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA).

Obviously, businesses break this law frequently and some private businesses probably don't even know it exists until they're being sued for back wages. Go figure.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but don't you think this is something the AVMA should get involved in? Not to start punishing clinics or anything, but to make it known that shadowing/volunteering is considered illegal?

 

[battie]

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but don't you think this is something the AVMA should get involved in? Not to start punishing clinics or anything, but to make it known that shadowing/volunteering is considered illegal?

Well, shadowing can probably be passed because the person isn't donating any service if we're talking strict watching and talking.

 

[finnickthedog]

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but don't you think this is something the AVMA should get involved in? Not to start punishing clinics or anything, but to make it known that shadowing/volunteering is considered illegal?

Well, shadowing can probably be passed because the person isn't donating any service if we're talking strict watching and talking.

I've just been following this thread and I understood from the recent discussion that volunteering is not legal... but is shadowing actually illegal?

If not do you have to be strictly watching/talking for it to be legal?

This is all very interesting.
I shadow, but I don't exactly sit around and do nothing the entire time either so now I'm really curious.

 

[jesseealicia]

You've got to keep in mind a couple things. First off, a euthanasia is a very emotional thing, especially if the owner stays. Having a shadow stick around for that isn't always appropriate depending on the situation and the client/patient. Furthermore, if you are new the vet may just have not felt comfortable throwing you in to such a situation yet.

I'd give it some time. If it was me, I'd do what they asked and prove my worth (but that's just me).

It was a drop off.

You stated that you've never seen a euthanasia before. There's really no way of knowing if you'll be okay for a euthanasia until you see one. With my first vet experience, the vet knew I had seen multiple euthanasias and natural passings before and still waited about two months before letting me be present for a euthanasia. At that clinic, I was never present for a client involved euthanasia. I wasn't involved with a client involved euthanasia until my third clinic, and that's simply because it was understaffed and I was the only paid vet assistant around (with regards to the clinic owner; the second vet there would have let me be present for almost anything). It's more of the vet's comfort level with you seeing a euthanasia and how you'll handle it, especially since you've never seen it happen before.



I agree with that to a certain extent. It just really depends to me. I had to sign a volunteer contract with the last clinic (before they moved me up to actual employee), and that contract had a list of volunteer responsibilities that included cleaning and stuff. If the information is detailed out for you that you'll be handling the cleaning and such and you still take the position, that's on you at that point. Obviously that's going to be clinic by clinic, too. Granted, at this clinic, there weren't enough staff to get everything done; volunteers helped make that clinic function on any level. I do agree that volunteers should be sent home over staff, 100%.








So, I need some clarification here:

Are you a shadow or a volunteer? You use volunteer in the title for the thread and in many of your responses, but then you'll use shadow, then switch back to volunteer. If you're a volunteer, you're a volunteer. If you're a shadow, you're a shadow.

Got to say, getting your hands dirty doesn't mean the same between different areas of the animal world. I've done kennels in pet stores, clinics, and boarding facilities, and not two places had the same protocols, methods, priorities, or anything really. Getting down and dirty in a vet clinic was way different than the pet stores or the boarding place. Again, you've been there for less than a month. When you have a Great Dane yank a catheter out of their back leg and lay down and roll in their own blood, you'll get the difference.

How often are you there and how much time do you spend? If you're spending only 3-5 hours a week, that's why you haven't gotten to do anything yet. You've spent 9-20 hours over the course of less than a month with people who spend that amount of time with each other within a 24 to 48 hour period. They don't know you, so they're not going to trust you with a lot of stuff yet. That's not them trying to push you out; that's them being responsible with their business, clients, and patients.

I'm supposed to be shadowing her. I use the word volunteering because that's what dvm college website call it.

Also I spend about 30 hours a week there.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I've just been following this thread and I understood from the recent discussion that volunteering is not legal... but is shadowing actually illegal?

If not do you have to be strictly watching/talking for it to be legal?

This is all very interesting.
I shadow, but I don't exactly sit around and do nothing the entire time either so now I'm really curious.

I'm sure a lot of us have shadowed at some point. From my personal familiarity with the law, it is illegal to replace paid employees with unpaid, take away paid work an give it to an unpaid employee, and so on. For example, you can't tell Sarah the volunteer to scrub floors, then tell Cathy the tech that there's nothing to do so she can go home early.

Without having owned a business, I never quite understood why any for-profit business took on volunteers. You know students are desperate for experience, so you exploit that. You might not have room for another paid employee, sure. Not all clinics treat their volunteers/shadows like that, though. My boss just told me I'm more than welcome to come back over school breaks, but she suddenly can't promise to pay me anymore (I think she just doesn't want me to demand a raise...). Sorry, but I'm not going to volunteer to do dentals, blood draws, xrays, etc. without being paid.

 

[battie]

It was a drop off.

I'm supposed to be shadowing her. I use the word volunteering because that's what dvm college website call it.

Also I spend about 30 hours a week there.

Then I would definitely suggest using "shadowing" and "shadow" for the rest of the conversation because there is a huge distinction and will change our answers. There's also a huge distinction in vet school applications as well.

Still, the doctors I work with probably would not have allowed me to watch a euth after 90 hours in 5 hour segments over six days a week. Just my perspective based on my experience.

Without having owned a business, I never quite understood why any for-profit business took on volunteers. You know students are desperate for experience, so you exploit that. You might not have room for another paid employee, sure. Not all clinics treat their volunteers/shadows like that, though. My boss just told me I'm more than welcome to come back over school breaks, but she suddenly can't promise to pay me anymore (I think she just doesn't want me to demand a raise...). Sorry, but I'm not going to volunteer to do dentals, blood draws, xrays, etc. without being paid.

Having been in a family with an animal based business with several stores, volunteers are a nightmare. I also don't understand it. The liability is a huge thing for us. If a random customer gets bit by something, we don't get in trouble because, "there is an inherent risk in being bit, scratched, clawed, etc. when in a pet store," according to the judge who oversaw a civil case after a kitten bit the skin in between a thumb and pointer finger of a lady. But if they are a volunteer, it's a whole different set of rules that are just not worth dealing with. Besides, it isn't hard to find people to hire. We have stacks of apps so that if we don't like an employee, we can fire them and find someone else. In the situation with not having enough money to have enough employees, that does suck. But that's also how the market rolls. Not every vet clinic makes it.

 

[DVMDream]

There's a whole lot of walls of text in here that are all just tl;dr.

Yup that is all...

 

[Jess Monster]

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but don't you think this is something the AVMA should get involved in? Not to start punishing clinics or anything, but to make it known that shadowing/volunteering is considered illegal?

You'd think as the professional advocacy group they'd be more concerned, but honestly, the leadership roster of the AVMA reads like the roster of most conservative business organizations - wealthy, white, old, and male. Call me cynical, but I just have little faith in that demographic taking any real concern over practices that maintain the status quo and only disadvantage the vulnerable. Imagine all the money a business could make not paying their employees a wage, overtime, any type of leave, health insurance, etc.? Illegal labor practices are big money the world 'round.

 

[WildZoo]

There's a whole lot of walls of text in here that are all just tl;dr.

Yup that is all...

I was seriously tempted to copy and paste the uncyclopedia entry for wall of text. But it's huge.

 

[DVMDream]

uncyclopedia

wtf is this?

 

[WildZoo]

wtf is this?

It's a wikipedia parody site. I think it was one of my most visited sites in middle school. *insert joke about that being last year*

 

[DVMDream]

It's a wikipedia parody site. I think it was one of my most visited sites in middle school. *insert joke about that being last year*

Damn millennials.

 

[WildZoo]

Damn millennials.

What did we do wrong now? Enjoy a funny internet thing?

 

[DVMDream]

What did we do wrong now? Enjoy a funny internet thing?

Something like that.

 

[WildZoo]

Something like that.

Sorry I will keep all reactions like this from now on:

 

[DVMDream]

Sorry I will keep all reactions like this from now on:

Better yet:

 

[WildZoo]

Better yet:

 

[hazelmoo]

As a shadow, I feel like you should strictly be "shadowing" a veterinarian, unless he/she's doing paperwork or in the office. Then it would be appropriate to shadow the techs or do some light cleaning... but if that's all you are doing, I would maybe talk to an office manager or even the vet and ask if you will ever be actually shadowing the vet themselves. But, be prepared to continue to call around and ask if there are any other vets to shadow if they still aren't letting you watch and learn. I would not expect hands-on experience though!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

OP, do you make it clear enough to others exactly which types of things you wish to see? Perhaps it is a case of them just not knowing what to do with you and being a bit more vocal and proactive about activities you wish to be involved in would help. Sometimes you need gently nudge people in that direction.

As for the working while shadowing...the way I look at it, the vet is allowing you to be in the clinic of their own free will. This may include slowing things down to explain things to you, using time they would otherwise use with clients or patients to answer your questions and show you things, dealing with any potential liability of having you there even if you don't touch things.....I don't think requiring a bit of light work is out of the question in repayment for that. Now yes, if the shadow is spending all their time cleaning runs and doing laundry, that is another story and borders on forcing someone to work for free. That is NOT ok. I've seen it enough with students in academia to have a distinct distaste for that sort of treatment. I'm not sure which is the case here and couldn't really say since we're hearing only one side of the story.

 

[katashark]

I wish you the best of luck. Just keep asking the doctor if you can go in with them to see a patient. Most of the time, they'll say no, just wear them down. But eventually, as they learn to trust you and get used to you being around, and know that you have a little bit of experience around their office and how things run, then they'll start saying yes. Also, the doctor will most likely not let you in when they are handling a new patient. You may have to wait around for the "right" client to walk in where they are comfortable with you being in the room and watching/helping. You have to earn their trust. Step up to the plate. Yeah, it sucks to do ****ty work for free, but at some point it won't be for free anymore. You've gotta pay your dues. This is how you get a ton of hours for your application.

 

[cheathac]

I agree with WTF. I am a volunteer at my clinic. I do some laundry and help with the night list. That is after appointments though. I usually sit through as many appointments as I can and I've been given more freedom to help techs and the vets with blood draws, nail trimmings, cysto, etc. I see the light work as repayment for my ability to shadow there. If all you are doing is cleaning, just let the office manager know or whoever you talked to who let you in the clinic.

 

[lailanni]

Start trying the other clinics again. Tell them you have X hours of experience and are looking to see different aspects of medicine.

There's a chance that maybe the vet just isn't that interested in mentoring a shadow. And if that's the only vet there, then you're out of luck. Being good with shadows isn't a requirement of every veterinarian. It takes time and effort to explain everything and that may not be a priority to them. And it doesn't look promising in this case if they've talked to you twice (I think you mentioned that?)

Of course before you throw in the towel make a good effort to let them know you're interested in seeing more and assisting in any way possible. Perhaps ask the vet some case related questions. Ask if it'd be ok to see an exam and let them know you wouldn't be interfering in any way. If you don't feel comfortable asking the vet directly, ask the office manager or lead tech.

Due to insurance/legal reasons you may not be able to do any hands on work there as a shadow. Do they have any job openings?

There's a fine line between putting in the scut work to make it on the team and then just being taken advantage of as free labor. Even though you have no credentials, your time is valuable too. So don't be afraid to walk away from a situation that is not beneficial to you.

At clinics I've been a shadow at, different vets had different comfort levels with me in the exam room. One vet would let me in any exam at all. Another would only sporadically. And another preferred that I not go in their exams at all. So it's highly variable. I started cleaning and observing. When things got busy I was able to lend a hand. Eventually I made myself more and more useful and got hired. Then it was plenty hands on. So you may need to be patient.

On the other hand, I was at one clinic/shelter where all I did was clean cages and poop. I had minimal vet interaction over the summer. After a day spent scrubbing poop off rocks, I never came back. I really don't think I missed anything.

If you've been spending 30 hours a week there for a month they should have some increased comfort level with you now. Maybe it'll start with just little things and go from there. Maybe not. Tough it out for a little while longer, raise your concerns, and then move on if it's not right. A good shadow experience is lots more than just cleaning.

 

[jesseealicia]

OP, do you make it clear enough to others exactly which types of things you wish to see? Perhaps it is a case of them just not knowing what to do with you and being a bit more vocal and proactive about activities you wish to be involved in would help. Sometimes you need gently nudge people in that direction.

As for the working while shadowing...the way I look at it, the vet is allowing you to be in the clinic of their own free will. This may include slowing things down to explain things to you, using time they would otherwise use with clients or patients to answer your questions and show you things, dealing with any potential liability of having you there even if you don't touch things.....I don't think requiring a bit of light work is out of the question in repayment for that. Now yes, if the shadow is spending all their time cleaning runs and doing laundry, that is another story and borders on forcing someone to work for free. That is NOT ok. I've seen it enough with students in academia to have a distinct distaste for that sort of treatment. I'm not sure which is the case here and couldn't really say since we're hearing only one side of the story.

They're not wasting any time by having me there. No one stops to explain anything, and if I ask a question they basically explain nothing. For example, tech took blood and tested it, I asked what the test was for, and she said it was for testing blood.

The vet owns and operates it, so she is the only 'manager.' & today I kind of got to watch two different dogs get their teeth extracted, one cracked tooth off a Catahoula dog and almost all the teeth off of a pomeranian mix. I'm sure the only real reason I was allowed to watch was because the tech they have me following is the only one that really helps with surgeries. Also they told me to stand in one spot, and they kept moving into my line of sight for the dogs. So I kind of watched the extractions/vets back.

 

[hazelmoo]

Sounds like you need to find somewhere else who has employees that will be more helpful and caring about teaching you :/ it never hurts to stay at a place for hours though, especially if you haven't gotten many "vet experience" hours for your application yet.

 

[Caiter92]

I feel like this experience isn't working for you, and you need to just move on. Like others said, some vets aren't interested in mentoring. It almost sounds like someone else gave the okay for you to shadow/volunteer, and then the vet felt obligated to comply even though they didn't want you there.

Do you have a good relationship with the tech you're shadowing? Maybe talk to them about what you'd like to get out of this and see if they can help you change things. If not, I'd look for a new place to shadow. Or at the very least a paid kennel position, so that atleast you're not doing labor for free.

I have to say though, even if you're shadowing the tech, that can still be very useful experience. The techs at the clinic I work at have been awesome at helping me learn skills and explaining treatments, etc. A good tech is worth their weight in gold, so try to learn from them as well.

 

[jesseealicia]

Sounds like you need to find somewhere else who has employees that will be more helpful and caring about teaching you :/ it never hurts to stay at a place for hours though, especially if you haven't gotten many "vet experience" hours for your application yet.

I feel like this experience isn't working for you, and you need to just move on. Like others said, some vets aren't interested in mentoring. It almost sounds like someone else gave the okay for you to shadow/volunteer, and then the vet felt obligated to comply even though they didn't want you there.

Do you have a good relationship with the tech you're shadowing? Maybe talk to them about what you'd like to get out of this and see if they can help you change things. If not, I'd look for a new place to shadow. Or at the very least a paid kennel position, so that atleast you're not doing labor for free.

I have to say though, even if you're shadowing the tech, that can still be very useful experience. The techs at the clinic I work at have been awesome at helping me learn skills and explaining treatments, etc. A good tech is worth their weight in gold, so try to learn from them as well.

To both responses, there really isn't anywhere else to shadow or volunteer in my city. And there hasn't been an open animal related job in years. I've been searching. I've called all the clinics and shelters and none of them take volunteers or shadows except for the ones that I'm currently volunteering/shadowing at