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google12 said:
Million $ Mistake

I just read this blog about this applicant who had a good GPA, good MCAT (he says top 33% which is ~508), 3 years as a CNA, etc. and yet he didn't even get MD interviews and barely any DO interviews...what would be the reason why? Also, if you read his round 1 blog, it says the dean of a med school told him to get more clinical exp, but is being a CNA for so long jot good enough either?

I know we don't know the full details of his story, but any thoughts?
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This story has been discussed multiple times in multiple threads on SDN for a few years now. There is a search feature on this site.
 
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My thoughts (since many previous threads are more arguments than actual rational discussion):

His GPA was good, but not spectacular. 77%ile MCAT is kind of on the low end of MD, though not "borderline" per se. I don't think it's a 508, more like a 506ish on the new one (remember these aren't really comparable since the new one is structured completely differently).

His school list was most definitely poorly constructed, as he mentions applying to like 100+ places. Um, that's ridiculous and probably meant his secondary essays became **** after a while. Yes, being white male probably didn't help things but that's minor in the grand scheme; as an ORM myself, the impact--though frustrating--is not as major as he makes it out to be.

His undergrad was done at a non-prestigious little LAC (maybe not a bad thing, but certainly a big name school would probably have helped him get in somewhere with those decentish stats). ECs average at best in my estimation, with no extensive research/cocurricular achievements worthy of particular note. Everything else he did, but was kind of just "check box-y;" no one is going to admit you solely b/c you shadowed people so superbly or performed admirable clinical experience hours.

TLDR: too average in every single way with arguably below-average MCAT, combined with a very bad school list. Also maybe there were other issues not revealed in the blog, or alternatively there could be conscious fabrications of the truth by said author.

P.S.-- That dean saying "gain more clinical exposure" is basically them saying "yeah I'm just looking for a passable reason to explain your rejection."
 
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There are too many qualified applicants to accept them all. The question the dean answered was "what can I do to improve?" not "what was lacking and caused me to be rejected?"

Getting more clinical exposure is a perfectly good thing for an "okay" applicant to do in a gap year if there is nothing else to do.

This fool went off-shore and stupid is as stupid does.
 
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I was actually wondering if he was lacking volunteer experience, especially in the helping-the-underserved department. There's something definitely wrong when he submits 100 primaries, but ends up with only 2 DO IIs.
 
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Person would have done better by aiming lower for more DO schools.

Even Podiatry school is a better idea and deal than the Caribbean. Im willing to say even pharmacy at this point too, because at least with pharmacy, you can get a job if you don't live in New York City or California.
 
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Isn't the average MCAT of accepted students a 509? That means his MCAT is slightly below average and not "good" like he says it is

Being ORM/white hurts you less than being URM helps you, but given the competitiveness of some of the top end schools I definitely think that shouldn't be downplayed. That said there are parts of his app that are easier to fix that he could have worked on
 
GypsyHummus said:
Even Podiatry school is a better idea and deal than the Caribbean. Im willing to say even pharmacy at this point too, because at least with pharmacy, you can get a job if you don't live in New York City or California.
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Let's not go that far with the SDN Carib bashing; it remains a somewhat viable, if admittedly high-risk option for certain individuals (possible conditions have been well described in previous offshore threads). This blog's author simply is not one of them (wanted Ortho or bust). Many Carib grads do become doctors, though it is exceedingly difficult.

Danny L said:
Being ORM/white hurts you less than being URM helps you, but given the competitiveness of some of the top end schools I definitely think that shouldn't be downplayed.
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I agree, but it's not like the blogger was aiming for the top 20 here. being white is basically neutral if you're just looking to get an acceptance anywhere at all. Agree with the rest of your post though.

Edit: Also, let's also keep in mind the fact that this blogger admits to having secured an academic IM residency in the end. He's still going to practice and have the opportunity to specialize. He's just extremely bitter about not being able to get ortho.
 
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What he did wrong was choose to attend a Caribbean school. It's also very possible that he is lying about those numbers. I could imagine someone getting a 25 on the MCAT and saying, "Eh, it's close enough to the top third, I can round up!" The moral of the story is to not go to the Caribbean.
 
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md-2020 said:
Let's not go that far with the SDN Carib bashing; it remains a somewhat viable, if admittedly high-risk option for certain individuals (possible conditions have been well described in previous offshore threads).
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The overwhelming majority of applicants should not go to the Caribbean. It is a terrible idea, especially for someone with okay stats gunning for ortho.
 
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LizzyM said:
There are too many qualified applicants to accept them all. The question the dean answered was "what can I do to improve?" not "what was lacking and caused me to be rejected?"

Getting more clinical exposure is a perfectly good thing for an "okay" applicant to do in a gap year if there is nothing else to do.

This fool went off-shore and stupid is as stupid does.
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I love it when the divine LizzyM sticks the knife in!
 
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This person's biggest mistake was being a tool.
 
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google12 said:
Million $ Mistake

I just read this blog about this applicant who had a good GPA, good MCAT (he says top 33% which is ~508), 3 years as a CNA, etc. and yet he didn't even get MD interviews and barely any DO interviews...what would be the reason why? Also, if you read his round 1 blog, it says the dean of a med school told him to get more clinical exp, but is being a CNA for so long jot good enough either?

I know we don't know the full details of his story, but any thoughts?
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When I read his blog a couple of weeks ago, the first thing that stood out during his first app cycle was that it appeared that he submitted his app to AMCAS late...he mentions filling it out in the Fall.

If that's the case, then he may have been under the impression that the reported deadlines are like college deadlines.

His app list may have been dumb, as well. His then-fiancée got into UMissouri, her home state med. I think he applied there as well, but likely it wasn't his home state.

His downfall was his arrogance. His fiancée begged him not to go abroad. That speaks volumes to me that he ignored her.
 
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"He asked me what I wanted to be, and I said an Ortho surgeon. It was the only kind of doctor I wanted to be"

Maybe he said this in his personal statement.
 
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Terry Toma said:
"He asked me what I wanted to be, and I said an Ortho surgeon. It was the only kind of doctor I wanted to be"

Maybe he said this in his personal statement.
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Yes, I forgot to mention that as well. If he applied to state schools or other schools that have a primary care interest/mission, and in his PS he stressed that he's always wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon, and nothing else, that might turn off a whole bunch of adcoms.
 
I'm glad he wrote the blog. I've long known that going to the Caribb is bad, but I had no idea how bad until I read his blog. I'm sure many wrongly think that if, "I just spank the shelf exams and step exams, I'll be golden."

Since reading that blog, I'm even more concerned for a friend who's now there, soon to start second year. The goal is psychiatry. I don't know if that's a more difficult match to get or not for a Caribb applicant.
 
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Didn't read whole thread so this might already be said, but iirc, he applied to something like 100 schools and didn't get any interviews.

There are some major problems lurking that we can't see (statement, letters, etc)
 
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efle said:
Didn't read whole thread so this might already be said, but iirc, he applied to something like 100 schools and didn't get any interviews.

There are some major problems lurking that we can't see (statement, letters, etc)
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True, but somehow his premed advisor didn't uncover them. And the UMinn adcom didn't share what it was, either.

The 100 apps was when he was a reapplicant. I still wonder about his first round...sounds like he applied late, and maybe not a great app list. The 100 apps were likely a mix of MD and DO. Did he ever mention shadowing any DOs? That could disqualify him at some DOs.

There was that strange remark about his name. Can't imagine any ethnic name being a barrier. We've all seem many ethnic, difficult to pronounce, names get into med school....over and over again. We've never heard that it's a barrier. Though it did make me wonder what his name is. He does mention having some Italian relatives in CA. Can't imagine that some unusual Italian name, first or last, would matter at all. Of course, his last name could be another ethnic group, but again med schools don't care about those things.

I don't think it was his LORs. He came from a small catholic college. Probably few premeds. They're probably going to be supportive of any premed with qualified stats. And, i think the UMinn adcom would have mentioned that there was a borderline or unsupportive LOR.

I'm surprised that it appears that he's been able to maintain anonymity. Wonder what specialty he's training in? He seems to be miserable.
 
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The blogger in the op has more entitlement than half of the pre allo people on sdn.

Seriously life is hard. Getting into medical school is harder. Med school is worse . Residency is pain. Learn that fact and learn to love it because it is what it is.

I mean these Carib schools don't lie about their tuition costs and most people have access to google. I'm working today and tomm but I would do it again in a heartbeat knowning I can help provide and save for my family
 
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Toutie said:
This story has been discussed multiple times in multiple threads on SDN for a few years now. There is a search feature on this site.
Click to expand...

do you really have to be that guy? The search button sucks and you know it
 
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md-2020 said:
too average in every single way with arguably below-average MCAT,
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He had a MCAT 30, hardly below-average. And he first applied about 7 years ago when a MCAT 30 was probably more competitive than it was a year or two ago. The app process was competitive back then, most definitely, but now is even worse.

There's nothing wrong with his small private LAC. I doubt he was dinged for that at any school. Med schools, particularly the ones that he likely applied to, would have no problem with his undergrad - a respectable small Catholic private.

I can understand some of his "entitled" feelings. He's not from Calif, so it's understandable why he thought that with his resume, he'd get at least a couple MD IIs.
 
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PreMedMissteps said:
He had a MCAT 30, hardly below-average. And he first applied about 7 years ago when a MCAT 30 was probably more competitive than it was a year or two ago. The app process was competitive back then, most definitely, but now is even worse.

There's nothing wrong with his small private LAC. I doubt he was dinged for that at any school. Med schools, particularly the ones that he likely applied to, would have no problem with his undergrad - a respectable small Catholic private.

I can understand some of his "entitled" feelings. He's not from Calif, so it's understandable why he thought that with his resume, he'd get at least a couple MD IIs.
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Did he reveal that he had a 30 on an SDN thread? B/c my original post actually contains a math error (it was never a strong suit of mine!); an MCAT in the "top 33%" is actually a 67%ile+ score, or 27+. And surely for the sake of his blog's message the author is right at the bottom of that range. 27-28 would be below average even in the early 2010s, I'd imagine.

I agree his UG rep didn't hurt him (it rarely does, unless maybe if you're from some infamous places i.e. Chicago State or whatnot). But only that a big name school might have landed him some more love with "fine meh" stats. I have plenty of love for small LACs, some of my closest friends chose them over research unis.

I mean, his resume was objectively average. Being basically like every other applicant in this dang process is not somewhere you want to be.
 
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md-2020 said:
Did he reveal that he had a 30 on an SDN thread? B/c my original post actually contains a math error (it was never a strong suit of mine!); an MCAT in the "top 33%" is actually a 67%ile+ score, or 27+. And surely for the sake of his blog's message the author is right at the bottom of that range. 27-28 would be below average even in the early 2010s, I'd imagine.

I agree his UG rep didn't hurt him (it rarely does, unless maybe if you're from some infamous places i.e. Chicago State or whatnot). But only that a big name school might have landed him some more love with "fine meh" stats. I have plenty of love for small LACs, some of my closest friends chose them over research unis.

I mean, his resume was objectively average. Being basically like every other applicant in this dang process is not somewhere you want to be.
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I don't think he's ever been on a SDN thread, has he?

He indirectly gives his MCAT in his blog. He took the MCAT several years ago, and maybe he made a math mistake when he figured that a 30 was top 33%.

This is what he wrote:
  • Earn a 30 or higher (top 1/3) on the MCAT
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PreMedMissteps said:
True, but somehow his premed advisor didn't uncover them. And the UMinn adcom didn't share what it was, either.

The 100 apps was when he was a reapplicant. I still wonder about his first round...sounds like he applied late, and maybe not a great app list. The 100 apps were likely a mix of MD and DO. Did he ever mention shadowing any DOs? That could disqualify him at some DOs.

There was that strange remark about his name. Can't imagine any ethnic name being a barrier. We've all seem many ethnic, difficult to pronounce, names get into med school....over and over again. We've never heard that it's a barrier. Though it did make me wonder what his name is. He does mention having some Italian relatives in CA. Can't imagine that some unusual Italian name, first or last, would matter at all. Of course, his last name could be another ethnic group, but again med schools don't care about those things.

I don't think it was his LORs. He came from a small catholic college. Probably few premeds. They're probably going to be supportive of any premed with qualified stats. And, i think the UMinn adcom would have mentioned that there was a borderline or unsupportive LOR.

I'm surprised that it appears that he's been able to maintain anonymity. Wonder what specialty he's training in? He seems to be miserable.
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This premed advisor also thought every school skipped the guy for interview because he sounded like he was a certain race, and I don't know that this advisor would have read his LoRs either, mine didn't. I don't think the dean at UM was likely to read his LoR packet and essays in the fifteen minute meeting, plus the clinical experience thing sounds like an easy excuse to give. If he already had years of hospital work my money is on the essays/letters, there's just no other reason a 3.8/30 should get 0 MD interviews and 2 DO interviews with a list of ~100 total.
 
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efle said:
This premed advisor also thought every school skipped the guy for interview because he sounded like he was a certain race, and I don't know that this advisor would have read his LoRs either, mine didn't. I don't think the dean at UM was likely to read his LoR packet and essays in the fifteen minute meeting, plus the clinical experience thing sounds like an easy excuse to give. If he already had years of hospital work my money is on the essays/letters, there's just no other reason a 3.8/30 should get 0 MD interviews and 2 DO interviews with a list of ~100 total.
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I agree that that seems to be a possible conclusion. That said, I think it's pretty jerky for a recommender to agree to write a LOR when he/she had no intention of writing a supportive one. Decline if you don't think you can be positive.

I don't think the UMinn dean really looked at anything because he totally missed all of applicant's clinical hours and suggested that he needed more. I imagine that deans/adcoms find these "what I did wrong" meetings embarrassing and uncomfortable and probably just want to get thru them ASAP.

I don't think it serves anyone when some here call him a tool or worst. Instead, we should be grateful that he owned his horrible judgment and detailed his frustrating results in an effort to spare others a repeat of his mistake. That is an honorable thing to do. He could have just put on a good face and perpetuated the Caribbean myth that it's a viable option.

The real tools are the alums that meet with naive applicants and mislead them. They're the ones who deserve to be shamed and disparaged.
 
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Just my .02

-> Having " average" stats from an "average" UGrad shouldn't hold you back from med school- average stats for acceptees means that those people can get at least one acceptance. If he were applying to just top schools, it would hurt, but he stated that he wasn't. If you're average for accepted students , you should be have at least one acceptance.
-> It's been stated that his MCAT could have been as low as a 27. Even 10 years ago that is just weak, it explains why his only acceptance was DO and not MD.
-> The fact that he applied to a 100+ schools means his secondaries were likely crap.
-> This guy was a tool. He had a massive superiority complex, and was gunning for ortho and nothing else. I'm not saying he deserved what happened to him, but the interviews/PS/secondary essays are supposed to weed out people with these personalities. I'm not saying he deserved what happened to him, but it likely contributed to him not getting an MD acceptance. It seems like he turned down DO b/c he was " boning for the MD " as Goro would say...
-> Something else he's hiding- lack of service hours ( if you have just clinical employment and no volunteering that can be an issue), a major downward grade trend, or an iA.
 
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mwsapphire said:
The fact that he applied to a 100+ schools means his secondaries were likely crap.
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This is very likely. He applied to a 100 as a reapplicant (not his first go round), and if someone has to rather quickly complete 100 secondaries, they'd likely be very vanilla or boilerplate-ish.
 
mwsapphire said:
Even if it was, my other points still stand.Also, I'm pretty sure a 30 is still borderline, but I'm not totally sure.
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Not so long ago, and even somewhat today, having an MCAT 30 with an otherwise good application would nearly mean an expectation of at least one MD acceptance (likely your instate public) unless you're from CA.

Today, a 507/508 is approx a MCAT 30.

He first applied about 7-8 years ago.

It wasn't unusual for premeds to say that they were hoping for any MCAT score that starts with a 3.
 
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Or the million dollar mistake incorporated some alternative facts into his narrative...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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JJRousseau said:
Or the million dollar mistake incorporated some alternative facts into his narrative...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
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I bet he was rejected from the Bowling Green State University School of Medicine.
 
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sliceofbread136 said:
do you really have to be that guy? The search button sucks and you know it
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The search button isn't subtle.

But telling newer members "it exists" is a safer bet than telling them off while also gettin ya a handful of cheap "likes."
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Both. Either way, I'm saying I think he was below the median.
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I highly doubt that at that time he was below the median of interviewed applicants, and that's what's really the issue since he got zero MD IIs.

I don't think "below the median" of matriculated is relevant, if that's what you're suggesting.
 
PreMedMissteps said:
I highly doubt that at that time he was below the median of interviewed applicants, and that's what's really the issue since he got zero MD IIs.

I don't think "below the median" of matriculated is relevant, if that's what you're suggesting.
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You don't think being below the median is relevant? :confused:
 
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During his first app cycle, he mentions that he and his fiancée filled them out together. Presumably, they read over each other's PS, overall app, etc. He never mentions any criticisms from her about his app at the time of the app or later.
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
You don't think being below the median is relevant? :confused:
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Half of all matriculants are below the median.

Many of us have been wondering why he didn't get at least one II from a MD school. I doubt he was below median of interviewed students. Do you think he was with a MCAT 30 at that time?
 
PreMedMissteps said:
During his first app cycle, he mentions that he and his fiancée filled them out together. Presumably, they read over each other's PS, overall app, etc. He never mentions any criticisms from her about his app at the time of the app or later.



Half of all matriculants are below the median.

Many of us have been wondering why he didn't get at least one II from a MD school. I doubt he was below median of interviewed students. Do you think he was with a MCAT 30 at that time?
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No idea. I asked if he was below the median for matriculating students. The median for interviewed students will be lower, but less important, I think. If he is significantly below the median for matriculants, that might have been a factor.

Clearly not his only factor. His secondaries likely sucked, he's arrogant, which I'm sure shined through in his app, and there are likely other things not as obvious.
 
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A decade ago a 31-32 was competitive for most of the top 10 schools, I don't think there is any way to pin it on a 3.8/30. We don't know his school list the first time, or the quality of his essays and LoRs either time (especially his secondary essays to 100 schools). And the fact that he talks about being set on Ortho and blaming his race/name makes me think there were probably major issues in there.
 
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libertyyne said:
This person's biggest mistake was being a tool.
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100x this. The guy is a straight up a-hat, and it comes through in the way he writes.

efle said:
There are some major problems lurking that we can't see (statement, letters, etc)
Click to expand...


grapefruit17 said:
The blogger in the op has more entitlement than half of the pre allo people on sdn.
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cactusman said:
I bet he was rejected from the Bowling Green State University School of Medicine.
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Probably accepted to Princeton though. I hear he turned it down because he though Ivy League DO wasn't as good as the Harvard of the Caribbean
 
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He was unwilling to delay gratification. Plenty of students with much better stats than his don't get interviews. Instead of fixing/improving his application, he rushed two cycles and sought the Caribbean. He was scared of committing to a DO when he felt that an MD would be more critical to success. He was fairly smart. Performed better in medical school than most of us on here will, but was limited by his own ambition and poor decision making.

At the end of the story, he failed in his own goals, i.e. becoming an orthopedic surgeon. However, he still has an MD, and probably placed into a lower ranked residency. To many of us, that's still a success. Had he had a better mindset, he would have landed a less competitive residency slot on his first match.

He may have landed himself in a million dollar loss in net earnings, but he's still a doctor. There are plenty of Caribbean grads that don't even reach this stage.

Edit: not worse. Better
 
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hellobigcat said:
He was unwilling to delay gratification. Plenty of students with worse stats than his don't get interviews. Instead of fixing/improving his application, he rushed two cycles and sought the Caribbean. He was scared of committing to a DO when he felt that an MD would be more critical to success. He was fairly smart. Performed better in medical school than most of us on here will, but was limited by his own ambition and poor decision making.

At the end of the story, he failed in his own goals, i.e. becoming an orthopedic surgeon. However, he still has an MD, and probably placed into a lower ranked residency. To many of us, that's still a success. Had he had a better mindset, he would have landed a less competitive residency slot on his first match.

He may have landed himself in a million dollar loss in net earnings, but he's still a doctor. here are plenty of Caribbean grads that don't even reach this stage.
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I agree! He probably would have had a good chance matching into orthopedic surgery as a DO, as he proved to be a good medical student and there are many DO-specific residencies.
 
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