wait a minute.......osteopathic medical schools?

[DATtaker]

ok, i know a lot about osteopathic medicine and have met some DOs..........even though i'm a pre-dental student.

but i heard that osteopathic medical schools are comparatively easier to get into. is this true? you can get into a few osteopathic schools with a 3.0 GPA and MCAT around 26? can someone explain what the deal is with admissions? maybe they look at other things, etc.

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[Justin]

I wouldnt say it is easier to get into a DO school. In fact, the odds are worse, there is less seats compared to the number of applicants than in MD schools. Anyway, DO schools don't care as much about the MCAT or grades. They came up with a revolutionary idea that certain qualities, such as maturity and compassion, are just as important as grades. They take a "whole person" approach to applicant selection. See the trend here, DO's take into consideration everything that a person has to offer. I feel that this is a much more sound way to pick future physicians. After spending over a month in a very elite hospital, I can tell you that intelligence alone does not make a good doctor, it is more a matter of compassion and heart. After all, medicine requires a person to be friendly and smart(remember, the MCAT does not matter once in school, everyone has to pass the boards).

 

[solie]

Also, I don't know about a 3.0...that seems really low to me. I think most schools average around a 3.4 to 3.6. If someone were to be admitted with a 3.0, I think they'd have to have a LOT of other things going for them. It's definitely not the norm.

 

[Peregrin]

I just wanted to respond to some of justin's points. Please do not take offense, but I disagree with a few your assessments.

Originally posted by Justin:
•I wouldnt say it is easier to get into a DO school. In fact, the odds are worse, there is less seats compared to the number of applicants than in MD schools.•••

Now I don't want to get into a spitting contest with anyone, but the ratio of applicants:acceptances has little if anything to do with whether or not it is "easier" to get in. True, if medical school acceptance was a purely random event (feels like it sometimes I know) then these things would be related, but it isn't so they aren't. The number of people applying to MD schools has declined rather steadily these last 5 or 6 years, and yet the average MCAT and GPA's have stayed the same and in some areas gone up, can I then use the same logic to conclude that it is now easier to get accepted? If you run the numbers for DO's vs. MD's, they are, on average, a few points lower in every respect all the way up to the USMLE step I pass rates. Is that meaningful? That's up to you.

•Anyway, DO schools don't care as much about the MCAT or grades. •••

I think we all know that this is false, since they are the only tools DO schools have to determine the applicant's scholarly ability. To say this is to suggest that one not need much scholarly ability to get into DO schools, which we all know is totally false as well.

•They came up with a revolutionary idea that certain qualities, such as maturity and compassion, are just as important as grades. They take a "whole person" approach to applicant selection. See the trend here, DO's take into consideration everything that a person has to offer. I feel that this is a much more sound way to pick future physicians. •••

Well, all schools have interviews to determine whether or not you would be a good "fit" for their program. In this regard all medical schools are actually quite similar. To put it another way, Osteopathic schools have indeed earned the reputation to "look beyond the numbers" when an applicant who they feel is exceptional might not have as much demonstrated scholarly ability, and this may indeed contribute to lower average GPA, MCAT scores and USMLE step I pass rates. Does this mean that they are turning out better or worse doctors? This is something that cannot be empirically measured, so it's up to you.

•After spending over a month in a very elite hospital, I can tell you that intelligence alone does not make a good doctor, it is more a matter of compassion and heart. •••

This is indeed true, but neither MD's or DO's have the monopoly on this one. I think that if you took a survey of patients, the less intelligent doctor with lots of heart is no better than a very intelligent one that is rather cold. If I had to choose, I'd rather have the more intelligent and scholarly one know more, and then do more for me or my family member than have the less scholarly one not be able to do as much. However I think that this is a false dichotomy because the MD or DO after your name will not change your fundamental character; you are who you are. If you are a cold fish now, your going to a DO school will not change that too much.

•After all, medicine requires a person to be friendly and smart(remember, the MCAT does not matter once in school, everyone has to pass the boards).•••


Very well put, on this we certainly agree. Choosing between the MD and DO is such a personal thing, and I'm not sure anyone has the answers for you. You must pick what is important and go with it.

In my humble opinion, the best medical school to go to is the one that accepts you. You will be who and what you will be regardless of the letters, they're just window dressing. Your GPA and MCAT are certainly within the range for DO schools, and if you have a strong application overall, your GPA won't stop you.

 

[jhug]

Anyone can look at see that the average mcat scores are slightly lower for DO schools than MD- this doesn't mean it is easier to get in though. A good friend of mine did much better than I did on the mcat and applied to both md/do schools. He hasn't heard a word from the md's and has been rejected by do's because he lacks clinical experience & doesn't know why he applied DO- other than it is said to be easier to get in to . I have a ton of volunteer/clinical experience and have been fortunate to be accepted to a few schools. This doesn't really answer anything...i guess i would say- don't apply to DO schools just because you think it is easier to get in- you may be very dissapointed!

 

[Justin]

Peregrin,

 

[Justin]

Peregrin,


I respect your opinion but please refrain from putting words in my mouth. Take a look at what I wrote and your response, it has alot of flaws in it. 1. All I said was the odds are worse, this
is a fact.
2. I said DO schools don't care as much, that implies they still care but to a lesser degree.
3. I said intelligence alone does not make a good doctor, it is important but not the only factor.

In my own opinion, I feel DO schools, for the most part, try to select for a more well rounded individual. I will admitt that DO's, on the whole, have lower scores from pre-meds to med school. However, I feel that if DO schools wanted to increase their average MCATs they could by simply selecting people with higher scores from their applicant pool. Thank God they take other qualities into consideration.

 

[jhug]

I just had a thought- it would be interesting to know/research how many "traditional" applicants apply/are accepted to DO schools as opposed to MD. In what little experience i have had interviewing and visiting other schools, it seems that DO's take a lot more un-traditional, well rounded if you want to call it that, students than MD's-- again i speak only from my experience, which isn't much, but it would be interesting to find out.

 

[Freeeedom!]

DATtaker,

#1 Why do you care? You are pre-dental.

#2 I heard the same thing about dental school...and do you think THAT is true?

 

[dvdrv31]

Originally posted by Freeeedom!:
•DATtaker,

#1 Why do you care? You are pre-dental.

#2 I heard the same thing about dental school...and do you think THAT is true?•••


1. I am just curious. I am curious about all the health fields. Have you ever been curious about anything?

2. It could be true about dental school. But if you compare the stats of dental schools and osteopathic schools, they will differ.

 

[Freeeedom!]

Ohhhhh boy.


The way I read your post, it sounded a bit condesending...much like if I were to post on pre-dental "Hey what is the deal with dental schools??? I heard they were alot easier to get into than podiatry or medical school. Is this true?"
I am sorry if I misunderstood your post. I apologize.

 

[bustinbooty]

As a D.O. student I see numerous reasons why our academic numbers are lower, many of which are manifested in my own class.

1. D.O. schools accept many more non-traditional students than M.D. schools. In my class we have several older students, the oldest of which was 57. Many of these older students were granted a seat in the class not because of their academic scores, but because they have done some outstanding things with their lives before now. High scores or not, these people belong in my class because of their character and life experiences.

2. It seems that some students gain admission because of who they know. THis happens in M.D. and D.O. schools but I have noticed it prominentyly in D.O. Schools. Legacy rights seem to be the norm in D.O. schools. (i.e. the son/daughter of a D.O. is almost guaranteed an acceptance...especially if the D.O. is a faithfully donating alumni.
.....I don't mean to discredit anyone who "knew" someone to get in.....because I also "knew" people so to speak. Was this the reason I got in? I hope not, and my numbers don't say it either... I am saying that I have seen some low numbers get in and, in general, the trend has been that these people have had some connections.
....this is fine though, they will make great doctors and I am proud to have them as my classmates. I am just giving some explanations for why numbers are lower for D.O. schools.

3. The D.O. schools truly do follow their "whole person philosophy" of patient treatment by also taking the "whole person" philosophy in granting admissions. I did not personally have any outstanding numbers that would have gained me admission to an elite M.D. school, but my numbers would have been competitive at my state M.D. schools. The D.O. school seemd to care more about my clinical experience than my academic numbers, however, giving me the idea that they cared about my 3-dimensional characteristics more than 4 or 5 numbers.

Can you get into a D.O. school with lower numbers? Absolutely, yes you can. However, you better have some dimension, personality, life experiences, clinical experiences, etc. to get in. IF you have mediocre numbers, but don't have anything to make up for it, you are not getting in. D.O. schools have even been known to turn down people with phenomenal numbers because they didn't bring anything else to the table besides a few high scores.

Best of Luck to All of YOU!!!

 

[deleted4401]

Hey Justin,

I agree that DO schools "tend" to take students with more life experience. But take a step back: don't people with more life experience tend to apply to DO schools? Don't more older people apply to DO as opposed to MD? Don't more people who got exposed to medicine later think DO? I think it is just the subset of the people applying more than any consideration on the school's part.

Also, the other dude was right, you cannot say that the odds are better on MD schools because this is not a random event. It's like saying if G.W. Bush, Al Gore, and I were up for election, that I have a 1/3 chance of winning. Heck no, those two dudes would rock me. It's simple statistics, man. That would be like saying regardless of my numbers, if I apply to enough schools, I'll get in, because there is X applicants and Y seats and tehre is a Y/X % chance I'll get in. Then I should have applied to 30 schools, based on stats, I'll get into about 13 or so. No way, man.

And for the record: if there are two applicants, exactly the same, age, undergrad, clinical experience, research experience, but one has a 3.8 and a 33, and one has a 3.4 and a 28, which one are you going to take?

I agree that grades and MCATS DO NOT make the man, b/c I am in med school, and I know that working very hard and being a decent human being are far more important in becoming a good physician. But the applicants to DO schools have lower numbers to begin with, and that's why the attendees have lower numbers. It isn't an insult or a problem. I know they'll make great physicians and I can't wait to work with them. Because they learn the same stuff and pass the same tests. That's all that matters.

Let me ponder y'all this ... If all the people who applied to MD applied to DO schools, too, I bet the averages of DO schools would skyrocket. Guaranteed. Because there are brilliant, charismatic, fun, and caring people who are at Harvard (and many other top MD schools) who would make great applicants to DO schools, but just didn't know enough about them, or just didn't apply to them.

As someone said before, the key is to become a doctor. In the end, the diagnostic codes bill the same for DOs and MDs. And that tells me that there is not a drop of difference in them. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise, because it is either propaganda from the MD end or from the DO end, and both sides are full of crap.

Finally, as anecdotal evidence on a message board is like a ton of camel dung (worthless), I'll say this anyway. One of my friends applied to 20 average MD schools last year and got no love. He applied strictly DO this year and has interviewed twice. He doesn't give a darn about the DO philosophy and his experiences are not what you'd call vast. He just wants to be a doctor really bad. And the minute he gets in, he'll go, and not look back. And he won't be any less educated, and I can't wait for us to be colleauges.

Simul
Tulane Med '05