Aug 31, 2015
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Pre-Medical
Wondering if anyone has experienced something similar. Currently I'm in my last year of college, I've completed all science classes, applied to medical school, finished secondaries, have 2 II's thus far, so thats a brief sum up.

What has caused the question:
- Facing a school year with no science classes I find myself reinvigorated about school. I am reading for fun once again, pursuing interests I haven't touched for some time, and genuinely excited to wake up in the morning.
- This new attitude has caused me to look at back at pre req classes and I'm wondering if I really enjoy the sciences as much as I told myself I did while taking them.
- Pursuing interests that I haven't touched for a while has put me back in contact with good friends. I spend time with them and realize that I am no longer quite as happy-go-lucky/energetic as I once was. These aren't a bunch of goof offs either. They are smart and excelling in their chosen areas of study/work. I fear med school/residency will continue to suck the fun right outta me.
- Have a good buddy in his residency who keeps harping on me to do ANYTHING other than medicine
- Having finished all the application stuff earlier in the summer I've had some time away from busy apps and school and I've seen a bit more clearly some of my real motivations for going in to medicine:

Those include:
a) the normal reason we claim to want to go into medicine. I genuinely feel I share these.
b) I liked the fact I was doing harder things than most people. There was satisfaction in working hard and succeeding. It was never an option to quit and explore other fields. Didn't want to be a quitter.
c) I respect doctors. period. I want to be respected like them. I like how people respond when the inquire my career plans and I tell them medicine.
d) I want to say I made it through med school/residency/fellowship/whatever. Again, I find satisfaction in succeeding in things that in my mind are very challenging.
e) I like money, and see the good salaries of physicians. I don't have much I want to spend money on, I just like making it.
f) I like the security of medicine. Maybe salaries will be significantly lower in the future, but the world needs doctors.
g) I'm scared to death to quit now. Don't want to see myself as a quitter. Scared to death of the uncertainty of other fields like business
h) I actually feel like I'm a bit pigeonholed into going to medical school. I realize thats false, but too some extent it does feel like the only option. I have NO clue what other career I would choose.
i) I want to make my family proud. No other person has a professional degree. They have all rallied around me.

Some of you are just born for medicine I'm sure, I'm seriously grateful for people like you. I have sincerely thought I was one of you. However, with added clarity I look at my motivations and really wonder if medicine is right.

I'm curious if anyone else is/was felt similar things. Perhaps the temporary ease I'm feeling from finishing apps and have some II's is causing my to be a bit crazy? hm...
 
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Goro

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These are all terrible reasons to chose a medical career. You wanna make people proud? Serve your country.

@Law2Doc, @mimelim...sage counsel needed here!

b) I liked the fact I was doing harder things than most people. There was satisfaction in working hard and succeeding. It was never an option to quit and explore other fields. Didn't want to be a quitter.
c) I respect doctors. period. I want to be respected like them. I like how people respond when the inquire my career plans and I tell them medicine.
d) I want to say I made it through med school/residency/fellowship/whatever. Again, I find satisfaction in succeeding in things that in my mind are very challenging.
e) I like money, and see the good salaries of physicians. I don't have much I want to spend money on, I just like making it.
f) I like the security of medicine. Maybe salaries will be significantly lower in the future, but the world needs doctors.
g) I'm scared to death to quit now. Don't want to see myself as a quitter. Scared to death of the uncertainty of other fields like business
h) I actually feel like I'm a bit pigeonholed into going to medical school. I realize thats false, but too some extent it does feel like the only option. I have NO clue what other career I would choose.
i) I want to make my family proud. No other person has a professional degree. They have all rallied around me.
 

NotASerialKiller

2+ Year Member
Jul 7, 2015
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- This new attitude has caused me to look at back at pre req classes and I'm wondering if I really enjoy the sciences as much as I told myself I did while taking them.
- Pursuing interests that I haven't touched for a while has put me back in contact with good friends. I spend time with them and realize that I am no longer quite as happy-go-lucky/energetic as I once was. These aren't a bunch of goof offs either. They are smart and excelling in their chosen areas of study/work. I fear med school/residency will continue to suck the fun right outta me.
- Have a good buddy in his residency who keeps harping on me to do ANYTHING other than medicine
- Having finished all the application stuff earlier in the summer I've had some time away from busy apps and school and I've seen a bit more clearly some of my real motivations for going in to medicine:
This is why asking someone in residency how much they still love medicine is a terrible way to figure out if you should go into it. I once had a post-call anaesthesiology resident rant at me semi-coherently for 20 minutes about what an awful mistake it was to choose medicine.
 

PugsAndHugs

5+ Year Member
Oct 7, 2014
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Congratulations on your two interview invites! But what the hell did I just read...? The only plausible reason is:

"The normal reason we claim to want to go into medicine."

But by you saying this, I genuinly feel like you don't share these. It's so vauge. There is no normal reason and you should define what that is for you before proceeding.

Have you shadowed doctors? Can you see yourself educating, diagnosing, caring for patients?

Did it ever occur to you that your friend that told you not go into medicine maybe chose this profession for the wrong reasons in the first place?

Basic rule of life is: If you wan't to live a happy life, do something you're passionate about. Waking up miserable everyday because you have to do something you dislike is the WORST feeling ever (at least for me).
 
Nov 15, 2013
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This is why asking someone in residency how much they still love medicine is a terrible way to figure out if you should go into it. I once had a post-call anaesthesiology resident rant at me semi-coherently for 20 minutes about what an awful mistake it was to choose medicine.
That person sounds like a wuss. Post call im giving play by play commentary on how I dominated each aspect of the night (even pointless things like giving zofran to a nauseated patient will be followed by me excitedly explaining my plan to target several receptors in a multi-modal approach followed by me running down the hall screaming "domination"). Then I'll continue to stay past my dismissal time trash talking my friends on the day team asking if they need me to stay a little extra to destroy any airways followed by repeatedly asking them if they're surprised how fresh I look despite having been through a call.

Srs
 
Apr 2, 2015
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Topeka, Kansas
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"The normal reason we claim to want to go into medicine."

But by you saying this, I genuinly feel like you don't share these. It's so vauge. There is no normal reason and you should define what that is for you before proceeding.
Quit being so pretentious. We all wrote the same "Why Medicine" secondary and/or interview question answer. She means:
1) Its meaningful to work with Pts!
2) Science is COOOOOL!!!!!
3) Syngergizing those two makes it even better!!
4) Working with other humans beings is just soooo fun, especially when they smell like ****.
5) Biology is NEAT!
6) Stable Income is a nice addition too but obviously this is just a minor caveat hahahahahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAAAHAH
 

PugsAndHugs

5+ Year Member
Oct 7, 2014
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Quit being so pretentious. We all wrote the same "Why Medicine" secondary and/or interview question answer. She means:
1) Its meaningful to work with Pts!
2) Science is COOOOOL!!!!!
3) Syngergizing those two makes it even better!!
4) Working with other humans beings is just soooo fun, especially when they smell like ****.
5) Biology is NEAT!
6) Stable Income is a nice addition too but obviously this is just a minor caveat hahahahahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAAAHAH
Says the person with a 35/3.9 who was rejected/wait-listed from every school last cycle? I wonder why... It might have something to do with the generic "Why Medicine" answer.
 
OP
C
Aug 31, 2015
5
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Congratulations on your two interview invites! But what the hell did I just read...? The only plausible reason is:
"The normal reason we claim to want to go into medicine."
But by you saying this, I genuinly feel like you don't share these. It's so vauge. There is no normal reason and you should define what that is for you before proceeding.
Have you shadowed doctors? Can you see yourself educating, diagnosing, caring for patients?
Did it ever occur to you that your friend that told you not go into medicine maybe chose this profession for the wrong reasons in the first place?
Basic rule of life is: If you wan't to live a happy life, do something you're passionate about. Waking up miserable everyday because you have to do something you dislike is the WORST feeling ever (at least for me).
Thanks everyone for the responses. I did gloss over the "normal reasons we claim to want to go into medicine". I do feel like I have genuine desires for medicine. I have spent significant time shadowing physicians. I have enjoyed what I experienced while there. I loved how they were able to reinstall hope into their patients, or help them through challenging circumstances when there may be no hope. I loved that they had the ability to help take pain away from people. I especially loved the relationships they had with their patients. I haven't experienced such a relationship in any other field I have been exposed to. I loved how they can be a great asset to a community in need and help increase access to health care (shadowed in rural area). I loved that it was a career with heart and passion. For these reasons and others I want to do medicine.

I'm just attempting to be extra, even excruciatingly, honest with myself. Something I have somewhat avoided as I have been caught up in all the requirements us premeds need to fulfill. I am now seeing these other motivations more clearly, and they cause me to worry. I will admit they are minor motivations when compared to what got me into shooting for medical school in the first place, but they are there nonetheless.
 

PugsAndHugs

5+ Year Member
Oct 7, 2014
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Thanks everyone for the responses. I did gloss over the "normal reasons we claim to want to go into medicine". I do feel like I have genuine desires for medicine. I have spent significant time shadowing physicians. I have enjoyed what I experienced while there. I loved how they were able to reinstall hope into their patients, or help them through challenging circumstances when there may be no hope. I loved that they had the ability to help take pain away from people. I especially loved the relationships they had with their patients. I haven't experienced such a relationship in any other field I have been exposed to. I loved how they can be a great asset to a community in need and help increase access to health care (shadowed in rural area). I loved that it was a career with heart and passion. For these reasons and others I want to do medicine.

I'm just attempting to be extra, even excruciatingly, honest with myself. Something I have somewhat avoided as I have been caught up in all the requirements us premeds need to fulfill. I am now seeing these other motivations more clearly, and they cause me to worry. I will admit they are minor motivations when compared to what got me into shooting for medical school in the first place, but they are there nonetheless.
That's MUCH better. You definitely seem like you have the right motivations. The next step is address your concerns:

1) Do you like science classes? Did you enjoy taking Chemistry, Biology, Orgo etc... Just think back to when you were studying for these classes, how did it feel? It's going to be tough for everyone, but did you read your textbook with interest?

2) Can you commit another 6+ years? This is why I think a gap year is essential to give students a much needed break.

3) The buddy in his residency should be the least of your concern per @NotASerialKiller 's reason.
 
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Cotterpin

Gluconeogenesis Evangelion
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@carryandrun This probably seems like a ridiculous question, but I don't think you've directly answered it yet: Do you still want to be a doctor? You're talking about the "normal reasons to go into medicine" in the past tense. But you still love all those things, right?

Also, have you had any time off of school at all yet? Have you been in school every year of your life since kindergarten? Because if you haven't ever been out of school, I think you could benefit from a gap year to see how you feel. If you get accepted to a med school this cycle, maybe defer for a year and decide later.
 
Jul 21, 2015
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That's MUCH better. You definitely seem like you have the right motivations. The next step is address your concerns:

1) Do you like science classes? Did you enjoy taking Chemistry, Biology, Orgo etc... Just think back to when you were studying for these classes, how did it feel? It's going to be tough for everyone, but did you read your textbook with interest?
I don't know about this - you can love chem, orgo, etc. and hate other subjects that are covered in medical school. Saying that you enjoy "science" in general is iffy.
 

PugsAndHugs

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I don't know about this - you can love chem, orgo, etc. and hate other subjects that are covered in medical school. Saying that you enjoy "science" in general is iffy.
Well there's a reason why classes like biology, chemistry, orgo (and also in most schools now; biochemistry) are prerequisite courses. It's safe to say if you are interested in the science prerequisites, you will be interested in what the have to teach you in medical school (whether it's Anatomy, Biochemistry, etc).
 
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Jul 21, 2015
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Well there's a reason why classes like biology, chemistry, orgo (and also in most schools now; biochemistry) are prerequisite courses. It's safe to say if you are interested in the science prerequisites, you will be interested in what the have to teach you in medical school (whether it's Anatomy, Biochemistry, etc).
Those courses are prerequisite because they give you the foundation to understand what is going to be taught to you in the future. I loved most of my prereqs but I hate anatomy, for example. If you're really interested in prerequisite material, you should probably consider a career in research instead. So, no, it's not safe to say that.
 

PugsAndHugs

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Those courses are prerequisite because they give you the foundation to understand what is going to be taught to you in the future. I loved most of my prereqs but I hate anatomy, for example. If you're really interested in prerequisite material, you should probably consider a career in research instead. So, no, it's not safe to say that.
All I was saying is that you are more likely to enjoy what you will learn in medical school if you enjoyed learning the prerequisites in undergrad. That is why science GPA is an important part of an application as well as why verbal gets more slack on the MCAT vs BS or PS. This really isn't as complex as you're trying to make it out to be.
 

bearintraining

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The interesting thing here is that I know schools who emphasize VR, and their rationale for doing so is that the science scores (BS and PS) predict your performance in medical school, but drop off soon after, whereas VR increases in predictive success in residency and clinical practice.
 

PugsAndHugs

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The interesting thing here is that I know schools who emphasize VR, and their rationale for doing so is that the science scores (BS and PS) predict your performance in medical school, but drop off soon after, whereas VR increases in predictive success in residency and clinical practice.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there is convincing data to back that up. And I am talking about generally - Go to the MSAR and I guarantee you the VR subscore mean is lower than than that of PS and BS >95% of the time.
 
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Affiche

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The interesting thing here is that I know schools who emphasize VR, and their rationale for doing so is that the science scores (BS and PS) predict your performance in medical school, but drop off soon after, whereas VR increases in predictive success in residency and clinical practice.
This is complete hogwash. God, what is it with SDN's boner for verbal? The data does not support in any way that verbal scores are predictive of any success as a physician. I'm sure that verbal reasoning tests for something, but that something doesn't seem to be relevant to being a good physician.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there is convincing data to back that up. And I am talking about generally - Go to the MSAR and I guarantee you the VR subscore mean is lower than than that of PS and BS >95% of the time.
This is correct!
 

Cotterpin

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Just preventing the spread of misinformation ;)
It's like a bat signal for you. Every single time anyone mentions verbal, you come out of the woodwork with your massive chip on your shoulder. But anyway, that's none of my business...
 
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Affiche

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Lol but realtalk I'm just stating what the data supports. No need to get pissy and derail a thread.
http://data:image/png;base64,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Glazedonutlove

2+ Year Member
Jan 3, 2015
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This is complete hogwash. God, what is it with SDN's boner for verbal? The data does not support in any way that verbal scores are predictive of any success as a physician. I'm sure that verbal reasoning tests for something, but that something doesn't seem to be relevant to being a good physician.

This is correct!
There was a study showing that verbal was more indicative of future performance. I think it was in one of those long aamc manuals
 

Affiche

5+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2014
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There was a study showing that verbal was more indicative of future performance. I think it was in one of those long aamc manuals
There's a meta-analysis that shows that it's the weakest indicator of all MCAT scores (and gpa) for future performance. There are multiple studies on this. Even for studies that do shine verbal in a nice light, the correlation was too weak to conclude that it's indicative of any future performance. But I agree that there are plenty of threads on this already on SDN and we don't need to turn this into another one. We can banter about this in our PM, @Glazedonutlove ;)
 

Glazedonutlove

2+ Year Member
Jan 3, 2015
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There's a meta-analysis that shows that it's the weakest indicator of all MCAT scores (and gpa) for future performance. There are multiple studies on this. Even for studies that do shine verbal in a nice light, the correlation was too weak to conclude that it's indicative of any future performance. But I agree that there are plenty of threads on this already on SDN and we don't need to turn this into another one. We can banter about this in our PM, @Glazedonutlove ;)
Totes would but class calls :D
 
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OP
C
Aug 31, 2015
5
3
Status
Pre-Medical
1) Do you like science classes? Did you enjoy taking Chemistry, Biology, Orgo etc... Just think back to when you were studying for these classes, how did it feel? It's going to be tough for everyone, but did you read your textbook with interest?

2) Can you commit another 6+ years? This is why I think a gap year is essential to give students a much needed break.

3) The buddy in his residency should be the least of your concern per @NotASerialKiller 's reason.
1. I liked certain aspects of them. I liked the detail oriented aspects of ochem (also, can I say ochem was actually a little...dare I say beautiful..all those mechanisms, pretty cool)..bio was of course fun. Look back now, however, I can see that a large part of my enjoyment from these classes was that I was doing well in them. 3.95 sGPA. Not perfect, but I did well. Others in the class certainly enjoyed them more. I became VERY grateful for people who dedicate their careers to furthering knowledge in these areas and I don't believe I would ever enjoy working in a lab. Seriously, can we give a huge nod to the pHd's and others??

2. I can definitely commit to another 6+ years. I've enjoyed the commitment thus far. But, as mentioned, largely because I felt accomplished and could look at myself in the mirror and know I was working hard and doing my best. Could I commit to 6+ years while staying sane/without large regrets/without looking at other careers and wondering what it might have been like in those fields? Currently wrestling with myself about this.

3. Agreed
 

RustBeltOnc

2+ Year Member
Dec 28, 2014
296
138
The Rust Belt
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Attending Physician
This is complete hogwash. God, what is it with SDN's boner for verbal? The data does not support in any way that verbal scores are predictive of any success as a physician. I'm sure that verbal reasoning tests for something, but that something doesn't seem to be relevant to being a good physician.

This is correct!
And if we only eliminated the MCAT, SDN would take less bandwith :)
 
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OP
C
Aug 31, 2015
5
3
Status
Pre-Medical
@carryandrun This probably seems like a ridiculous question, but I don't think you've directly answered it yet: Do you still want to be a doctor? You're talking about the "normal reasons to go into medicine" in the past tense. But you still love all those things, right?

Also, have you had any time off of school at all yet? Have you been in school every year of your life since kindergarten? Because if you haven't ever been out of school, I think you could benefit from a gap year to see how you feel. If you get accepted to a med school this cycle, maybe defer for a year and decide later.
Great question, not ridiculous at all. Yes I still want to be a doctor. But, I'd also like to be a professional baseball player I'm sure. However, I'm not willing to put the time in to acquiring professional baseball abilities. Dumb analogy probably, but I do still want to be a doctor. The reasons I want to be a doctor, the sincere genuine ones, are still reasons for me. However, like baseball, I am beginning to wonder if there are other reasons that would keep me from being truly passionate about it.

I have been in school full time (summers included) for the past 3 years. I've basically been in school all the times since high school except for an ecclesiastical mission at 19 (LDS). I do wonder if some of my current feelings are arising from the fact that I faced the end of summer without science classes, and I now face a year of school with no science classes or heavy pre med obligations. I am currently taking 18 credits and working as a manager in my job, but trust me 18 credits of a foreign language and a job is MUCH more chill than 15 credits of lab classes. This school year feels like a HUGE breath of fresh air
 
OP
C
Aug 31, 2015
5
3
Status
Pre-Medical
As for pre reqs and verbal MCAT scores...can we all finally admit that it is the new Psych and Soc portion of the MCAT that will be THE determiner of how we will do in medical school?? :)
 

Affiche

5+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2014
2,440
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As for pre reqs and verbal MCAT scores...can we all finally admit that it is the new Psych and Soc portion of the MCAT that will be THE determiner of how we will do in medical school?? :)
Lol I'm sure you will have people arguing this regardless of what the data supports. FWIW, I scored very highly on the psych/soc section and I don't think it means anything.
 
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mimelim

Vascular Surgery
7+ Year Member
Sep 19, 2011
4,878
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Lol I'm sure you will have people arguing this regardless of what the data supports. FWIW, I scored very highly on the psych/soc section and I don't think it means anything.
What exactly does the data show? Can you link them to me either here or PM? Higher scores in pre-clinical classes or step 1 is completely irrelevant to being a good physician.
 
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Affiche

5+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2014
2,440
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Status
Medical Student
What exactly does the data show? Can you link them to me either here or PM? Higher scores in pre-clinical classes or step 1 is completely irrelevant to being a good physician.
I don't know what the data shows for psych/soc, I honestly haven't cared enough about the new section to look into it. But sure, I'll PM you.
 

mimelim

Vascular Surgery
7+ Year Member
Sep 19, 2011
4,878
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Attending Physician
I don't know what the data shows for psych/soc, I honestly haven't cared enough about the new section to look into it. But sure, I'll PM you.
I meant the verbal.
 

Cotterpin

Gluconeogenesis Evangelion
2+ Year Member
Jun 18, 2015
6,919
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Great question, not ridiculous at all. Yes I still want to be a doctor. But, I'd also like to be a professional baseball player I'm sure. However, I'm not willing to put the time in to acquiring professional baseball abilities. Dumb analogy probably, but I do still want to be a doctor. The reasons I want to be a doctor, the sincere genuine ones, are still reasons for me. However, like baseball, I am beginning to wonder if there are other reasons that would keep me from being truly passionate about it.

I have been in school full time (summers included) for the past 3 years. I've basically been in school all the times since high school except for an ecclesiastical mission at 19 (LDS). I do wonder if some of my current feelings are arising from the fact that I faced the end of summer without science classes, and I now face a year of school with no science classes or heavy pre med obligations. I am currently taking 18 credits and working as a manager in my job, but trust me 18 credits of a foreign language and a job is MUCH more chill than 15 credits of lab classes. This school year feels like a HUGE breath of fresh air
My sense of your situation is that you need to take a break to assess your feelings. It's hard to know that you want to commit your life to something when you're young and don't know really know what's out there yet. I think it's totally normal and healthy for you to be having these feelings. You still want to be a doctor and maybe you will still be a doctor. Continue forward earnestly with this application cycle and see what happens. If you get accepted and you still aren't sure, then you can defer and figure it out. If you don't get in, you can reassess. But cross that bridge when you come to it.
 

raiderette

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So you say you are not as fun, well, you have just come out of studying for the MCAT, probably volunteering and research and the stress of applying to medical school. Cut yourself some slack. Use this year to learn work/life balance again, then go into medical school re-energized. I have no science classes this semester and I can't believe how much free time that I have. Rather than doubt yourself, take advantage of this time to enjoy your last year of undergrad.
 

bearintraining

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bearintraining

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Great question, not ridiculous at all. Yes I still want to be a doctor. But, I'd also like to be a professional baseball player I'm sure. However, I'm not willing to put the time in to acquiring professional baseball abilities. Dumb analogy probably, but I do still want to be a doctor. The reasons I want to be a doctor, the sincere genuine ones, are still reasons for me. However, like baseball, I am beginning to wonder if there are other reasons that would keep me from being truly passionate about it.

I have been in school full time (summers included) for the past 3 years. I've basically been in school all the times since high school except for an ecclesiastical mission at 19 (LDS). I do wonder if some of my current feelings are arising from the fact that I faced the end of summer without science classes, and I now face a year of school with no science classes or heavy pre med obligations. I am currently taking 18 credits and working as a manager in my job, but trust me 18 credits of a foreign language and a job is MUCH more chill than 15 credits of lab classes. This school year feels like a HUGE breath of fresh air
I'm wondering whether what you're going through is just a sign of typical burn out more than anything else. When you make a list of what jobs you'd want to do, what would be on that list? for myself its, in no particular order:
- biological research
- medicine (surgery)
- computer programming

What is on your list?

EDIT: just to say, I have days where I just want to work as a barista out of frustration with whatever issue is going on (usually a failed experiment) - i'd probably hate it though, people are particularly picky with their coffee orders! :)
 
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This is complete hogwash. God, what is it with SDN's boner for verbal? The data does not support in any way that verbal scores are predictive of any success as a physician. I'm sure that verbal reasoning tests for something, but that something doesn't seem to be relevant to being a good physician.

This is correct!
I don't think any portion of the MCAT is a good predictor of success as a physician.
 
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Affiche

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I don't think any portion of the MCAT is a good predictor of success as a physician.
I agree completely! In summary: all of these numbers are garbage for predicting how "good" of a physician someone will be, but it seems the bio section may be correlated with performance on Step 1, which is why some adcoms seem to focus on this section specifically (although that doesn't mean Step 1 is correlated with being a good physician). You can't break down being a good physician into numbers, IMHO.
 

styphon

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c) I respect doctors. period. I want to be respected like them. I like how people respond when the inquire my career plans and I tell them medicine..
I find this reason funny. Respect for doctors has faded away as sense of entitlement and "I'm special" has become the norm. I can not count the times I have been yelled at, cursed, and demeaned. People want to talk to their chiropractor/naturopath/mothers cousins friends uncle before doing what you advised. When people actually thank me I almost fall off my chair.

Do it because you love it, because you cannot imagine a future without doing it. You are in not "stuck" as a premed..But once you are in medical school after having signed large loan papers, it is hard to leave. Find out what your true calling is before you reach that point.

What exactly does the data show? Can you link them to me either here or PM? Higher scores in pre-clinical classes or step 1 is completely irrelevant to being a good physician.
With the old MCAT there was a study finding the highest correlation with STEP I scores to be the verbal section of the MCAT.
 
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spaingirl17

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If you can, try to take a gap year. I was wayyy overloaded in college and pretty burnt out which was causing me to dread the years of schooling ahead of me. So I took a gap year teaching English abroad and had a blast learning a new language and new culture! Now on my second gap year and in the midst of applying, I am feeling more refreshed than ever and am now ready to start my medical career. That year was really enlightening as to what I wanted, and I would really recommend it to anyone questioning their path, those who are burnt out, or those who want to try a few new things before committing to medicine.

EDIT: Right, if you can defer
 
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Glazedonutlove

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I don't think any portion of the MCAT is a good predictor of success as a physician.
Then carribean students should be treated equally

Mcat score tells much about problem solving and analytical skills, having the work ethic required to score well, etc
 

Affiche

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Then carribean students should be treated equally

Mcat score tells much about problem solving and analytical skills, having the work ethic required to score well, etc
Caribbean scores aren't sub-par because of MCAT scores lol. They have a plethora of other issues.
 
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You can never go back to college. Enjoy your final year and take some courses that are stimulating even if they have nothing to do with your pre-med journey. I've talked to some brilliant physicians at academic hospitals who lament that they did not take some of the really cool courses available at their incredible undergrad institutions. I don't think taking a pause or even wondering out loud means you don't really want to be a physician. The idea that you are just born knowing you want to be a doctor or have some magical epiphany is a bit oversold (and a little too religious for my tastes).
 
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My guess is that the attitudes about relevance of MCAT scores tracks pretty accurately with the scores of those persons.
 
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Affiche

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Mcat score is a factor that gets them there
Right, but if you remove MCAT scores completely, the Caribbean schools are still sub-par. The actual clinical training is greatly inferior to their US MD counterparts, for example. Thus, Caribbean students should not necessarily be treated equally even if we remove MCAT scores.

Edit: The reason Caribbean students have such a hard time isn't because their MCAT scores are lower. DO students typically have lower MCAT scores and they match to residencies fine. MCAT scores vary greatly between US MD schools, but US MD students match just fine. Caribbean schools have other inferior qualities that make residencies biased against their students.
 
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Goro

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Agree 100% with my young colleague.

At many MD schools, either the median and/or the bottom 10th %ile for VR are a full point lower than that of Bio or PS, which says that VR is given the most slack and considered less important than the other subjects.

I've gone through a good deal of the studies of the MCAT as a predictor of med student success and the data for VR is weak, at best. The best data, and most replicatable, is for total MCAT score.

While poor communication skills may be reflected by poor VR results, the reverse isn't necessarily true.

This is complete hogwash. God, what is it with SDN's boner for verbal? The data does not support in any way that verbal scores are predictive of any success as a physician. I'm sure that verbal reasoning tests for something, but that something doesn't seem to be relevant to being a good physician. This is correct!
 
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