Waived tuition for MD/PhD?

[Rud42]

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I was looking through a few school's websites and have seen that some say that students in the MD/PhD programs get full tuition waivers (plus stipend).

Does this mean that the school is paid for during the 7-8 years plus the students are being paid?? If so, this almost seems too good to pass up if you are a qualified applicant. (Not much debt when going into residency.... is it worth it to spend the extra 3-4 years?)

 

[quiltlady]

That's why these spots are so competitive, everyone would like to go to med school and get paid to do it.

 

[trainride]

If your interested in research it is a good route. However, think about the extra 3-4 years your spending in school and not making a Dr. salary (minimum 115k year and much more for most) Thats 300-400k your missing out on just to have medical school paid for. Also the extra 3-4 years your life style is dictated by your stipend instead of Dr. salary.

So I don't believe doing an MD/PhD is worth getting if your only looking for a free ride.

 

[shantster]

If your interested in research it is a good route. However, think about the extra 3-4 years your spending in school and not making a Dr. salary (minimum 115k year and much more for most) Thats 300-400k your missing out on just to have medical school paid for. Also the extra 3-4 years your life style is dictated by your stipend instead of Dr. salary.

So I don't believe doing an MD/PhD is worth getting if your only looking for a free ride.

My allergist is an MD/PhD and the last time I saw him he told me that he felt that the dual degree is a waste of time if you want to do clinical medicine. He said the only time it helps him at all is for having a greater chance of doing the drug companies clinical trials for new medications (he's always advertising for enrolling patients in these), but he didn't make it sound like it was too competitive getting these studies.

 

[Rud42]

Thanks for the input.

Another reason I was asking is was I think I might like to work in an academic hospital and do clinical research; I had heard that the PhD is useful to many when going down this path. Is that true? It doesn't sound like it.

 

[TheRealMD]

Uhh... if you aren't going to be putting the PhD part of a MD/PhD degree to good use, you will never be accepted. Getting into med school is hard enough, do NOT think that a free ride should be your motivation to do a MD/PhD program. It's really not worth it just for that.

The stipend exists only because they don't want people who come out of these programs to have a ****load of debt and a few more years chopped off their lives.

 

[meowkat444]

actually, financially, it ends up working out to about the same. you go into 200,000 in debt with just an MD, but you undoubtedly earn 200,000 more in your lifetime. actually, you probably come out ahead without the phd.

only do it if you want to do research for sure. like me 🙂

 

[MassTransport]

People who enter MD/PhD programs are absolutely sure that they'll do research, and most of them are accomplished undergraduate researchers with superb academic qualifications. It's not a cakewalk, you typically interrupt your MD education after 2 years to study for a PhD.

You don't need a PhD to do academic medicine. Tildy has a very informative thread about it in the mentor forums. Check it out, it's a nice read.

 

[Rud42]

Uhh... if you aren't going to be putting the PhD part of a MD/PhD degree to good use, you will never be accepted. Getting into med school is hard enough, do NOT think that a free ride should be your motivation to do a MD/PhD program. It's really not worth it just for that.

I wasn't trying to make it sound like I thought I could or would do the program. I was just seeing if I had seen the websites correctly.

I think the extra time would probably be wasted for me since I really don't want to teach/research a basic science; I would rather do clinical research.

As an aside, I do think it is funny when some people (and I've seen some doctors like this) look like they are collecting degrees. (i.e. I saw one man that had MD, PhD, MBA, MPH) << I think that is getting rediculous unless you absolutely need all of these for your work, which I doubt formal training in all of these is necessary.

 

[ssquared]

My allergist is an MD/PhD and the last time I saw him he told me that he felt that the dual degree is a waste of time if you want to do clinical medicine. He said the only time it helps him at all is for having a greater chance of doing the drug companies clinical trials for new medications (he's always advertising for enrolling patients in these), but he didn't make it sound like it was too competitive getting these studies.

One of my research PIs was an MD/PhD, and even he said it was a waste of time, and he does research full-time.

It's only for the very, truly devoted to research. Since the MSTP program is funded by NIH, I believe that by accepting the money you are agreeing to do some level of research for a good chunk of time (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong here, I don't know the specifics).

 

[TheRealMD]

I wasn't trying to make it sound like I thought I could or would do the program. I was just seeing if I had seen the websites correctly.

I think the extra time would probably be wasted for me since I really don't want to teach/research a basic science; I would rather do clinical research.

As an aside, I do think it is funny when some people (and I've seen some doctors like this) look like they are collecting degrees. (i.e. I saw one man that had MD, PhD, MBA, MPH) << I think that is getting rediculous unless you absolutely need all of these for your work, which I doubt formal training in all of these is necessary.

If you decide to open your own lab that concerns public health, maybe?

 

[jjmack]

One of my research PIs was an MD/PhD, and even he said it was a waste of time, and he does research full-time.

It's only for the very, truly devoted to research. Since the MSTP program is funded by NIH, I believe that by accepting the money you are agreeing to do some level of research for a good chunk of time (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong here, I don't know the specifics).

you owe the NIH nothing. I think in the past schools or the NIH tried to force grads to do research.

 

[Rud42]

If you decide to open your own lab that concerns public health, maybe?

I guess, but I just don't think I could continue a formal education like that for so long.

Has anyone seen any examples of people with 5+ professional degrees like this? It would be interesting to see.

 

[AnthonyNY]

you only live once.. i say this because "missing out on the doctor pay", while being a common argument/distraction against doing anything that will take time away from your future professional life, to me, isn't very persuasive if you enjoy what you're doing.

if you want to learn the material, and enjoy the research (and all that comes with it) required to earn the PhD alongside your MD, than you should go for it without fear of "losing 3 years of attending pay".

its not just about having the credentials, or getting a stipend and free tuition vs. the sum of your potential monetary "loss" - its about life experience. do you actually WANT to get a PhD? will you enjoy the process of earning a PhD? enjoy/want the privilages that the degree entails?

i think i might have digressed a bit🙄 anyway, i'm just tired of peoples' credentialistic concerns; their missing the real point in earning ANY degree, in general. little rant, kinda scattered. no offense was intended.

 

[MahlerROCKS]

Most programs might say that their program typically last only 7 years, but in order to finish in 7 years you have to live in the lab; most students finish in 8, but at some programs, such as Baylor, Emory and Rochester, most students often take longer

 

[Flopotomist]

There is only one reason to go MD/PhD... because you want both degrees, have an interest in getting both degrees, and will likely use both degrees somehow in your career.

The dual program, actually ends up costing you money usually in terms of lifetime earnings (you lose 3+ years of income at ~$200K for a gain of a MAX of 4 years of medical school which is usually ~$200K)

 

[trichomoniasis]

The stipend exists only because they don't want people who come out of these programs to have a ****load of debt and a few more years chopped off their lives.

and also so they'll be more inclined to work in an academic setting, which generally doesn't pay as well as private practice or industry.

 

[CCLCMer]

and also so they'll be more inclined to work in an academic setting, which generally doesn't pay as well as private practice or industry.

Yeah, and you're not getting paid tons of money as a student either. It's like being a grad student for seven, eight, nine years. You get a stipend that hopefully covers your living expenses, not a real salary. I'm not saying people shouldn't do it if that's what they really want, but it's not like you're going to be raking in big bucks as an MD/PhD student. Some of the ones I've met still take out loans if they have extra expenses like credit card debt or car payments that they can't afford on their stipend.

Rud42, another thing to consider is that most MD/PhDs are in basic sciences, not clinical sciences. If you want to do clinical research, that's an awful long time to spend in the lab doing benchwork to get a PhD that you might never use. My two cents anyway. 🙂