mike3kgt

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From an article I saw posted today:

"Wal-Mart is already the fourth largest pharmacy in the country. It's not implausible that Wal-Mart would offer in-store eye checks for prescription eyewear and contact lenses, or even dental care. "

http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/26/news/fortune500/walmart_future/index.htm

Can anybody picture wal-mart stores to incorporate dental practices? It seems like it's not too much different from... let's say... having a dental office next door to a florist and beauty tan salon.

Not sure if I'm a big fan of seeing my dentist at Costco... but then again, I wouldn't see my optometrist or pharmacist at those big retailers.

Any thoughts?
-Mike
 
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I don't mind getting Rx's filled at Walmart. It's the same service as anywhere else just like walgreens as far as I can tell.

but i don't know who would want to practice there. My guess is you see all sorts of crazy people.
 

dental2008

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1) Walmart will probably not do this because of the high overhead. They HATE overhead

2) They will see that there is a significant risk of mal-practice when you keep trying to cut costs and offer quality health care.

3) There will be a very high turnover of dentist, mostly new grads coming in getting experience then leaving

4) pay will be poor as it is for the OD's, which recently walmart REDUCDED their salaries
 

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I actually thought I came up with the idea. I went to the walmart near my house and they have a McDonalds, Nail spa, Photo studio, Optometrist and Pharmacy. They might as well have a 3 chair operatory. Some of the places where you find Walmart in the boonies might benefit from this service.

I'm kidding though. You never know, if the pay is right, I'm sure some dentists will give it a shot. A never ending supply of patients, that's for sure.
 

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kenniemd said:
I actually thought I came up with the idea. I went to the walmart near my house and they have a McDonalds, Nail spa, Photo studio, Optometrist and Pharmacy. They might as well have a 3 chair operatory. Some of the places where you find Walmart in the boonies might benefit from this service.

I'm kidding though. You never know, if the pay is right, I'm sure some dentists will give it a shot. A never ending supply of patients, that's for sure.
Me too! I was talking to my friends about this. How once I graduated I was going to go to walmart with this idea. Alot of big department stores have dentists, why not walmart?
 

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Get ready to laugh u entrepeneurs, but my current dentist and his partners practice in WAL-MART! I've been going to Wal-Mart for my dental care for over 10 years now. No I do not live in a small town (pop'n approx = 600, 000). You would not believe how incredibly busy he is....his practice is in one of the best/busiest/nicest malls in the Toronto area. Haha I'm surprised nobody has heard of this before. It was great shadowing him....get my shopping done on lunch breaks!
 

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grinningrice said:
Me too! I was talking to my friends about this. How once I graduated I was going to go to walmart with this idea. Alot of big department stores have dentists, why not walmart?
From what I've read, Wal-Mart treats it's employees terribly. Lowest pay possible, no unions (they shut down a Quebec wal-mart completely because it was going to unionize). Some stores have even hired illegal labor I hear - that would be funny if they used unlicensed dentists!! :eek: :p

Anyhow, my point is that if they treat all these employees badly, they'll probably treat a dentist badly. They'll limit the amount of money you can make, etc. Also, they'll probably decide who you'll refer to as well.
 

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Maybe they will put a cardiac cath lab in next. I am drawing the line at neurosurgery. I will not get neurosurgery at a wal-mart.
 

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lesstewert said:
Maybe they will put a cardiac cath lab in next. I am drawing the line at neurosurgery. I will not get neurosurgery at a wal-mart.
lol :laugh:
 

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Dentist: "So what can I do for you today?"

Patient: "I needs to git my toof yanked out. And which aisle can I find me a garden gnome?"
 

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toofache32 said:
Dentist: "So what can I do for you today?"

Patient: "I needs to git my toof yanked out. And which aisle can I find me a garden gnome?"
And you better believe angry customers will complain to the store manager if the dentist office refuses to check-out his or her cartful of merchandise, just like they do the pharmacy. ;)
 

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predentchick said:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Very funny...
Not really. I object to the negative stereotyping of Wal-Mart shoppers that is taking place on this thread. I demand this thread be locked out.
 

12YearOldKid

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It is one thing for a dentist to lease space from WalMart or a strip mall; it is another thing entirely for Walmart to own the practice and hir the dentist. Walmart is an economy in and of itself and thus has a lot of power. Once they get a foot in the door, there will be no end to the abuses they will foist upon the profession. Super-expanded duties assistants; independent hygiene, treatment plans subject to the whims of non-dentist management, etc... etc... Anything to increase profits.

They will offer super low prices and turnover of new dentists will be no problem for them - plenty more where they came from. Eventually the public will expect all dentists to compete at that level - $300 crowns, weekend hours, free exams. Maybe you don't believe this can happen but look at the pharmacists and optometrists. Yes, a select few manage to open their own practices, but the vast majority end up at Kroger, Walgreens, Walmart, Sears, etc... This was not the case 15-20 years ago.

This will be probably be pretty profitable for the first few dentists who buy into this model, but in the long run it is nothing but bad for our profession. I am not a Walmart hater, but if you value the salary, lifestyle, and autonomy to exercise your professional judgement that dentistry offers, you should be against this.
 

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tru dat
Being an Econ major, I agree that it is bad news for us dentists to let Walmart and other chains have dental practices. Their deep pockets mean that they can afford the equipment and offer discount dentistry. Lower even than the so called dental mills. Unlike drugs which come premade and all you have to do is hopefully count them right, dentistry has both the art and science component and can't be easily standardized. Patient care would definitely be compromised as can be seen at the mills.

I understand this is a capitalist economy blah, blah, blah.
 
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mike3kgt

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delicious said:
Not really. I object to the negative stereotyping of Wal-Mart shoppers that is taking place on this thread. I demand this thread be locked out.
I think this type of attitude presents a very interesting point. Many people view Wal-Mart as lowly and quality of their goods poor. I for one, avoid shopping at the store at all costs due to many of the articles I have regarding their strong-arm techniques with global produces and supplies in order for the endless search for cheaper products.

This thread should be discussed because the entry of Wal-Mart into the profession would create many of these feelings and attitudes. I would be greatly disappointed if dentist offices were popping up as Wal-Mart owned (I feel less strongly against private offices in leased-space inside stores, but still none-the-less). I could, however, see private hygiene practices being incorporated into the wal-mart model.

Any way you look at it, hygiene, dentists, custom bleaching stations, etc. in Wal-Mart locations would probably not be in the best interest of the integrity of the profession.

-Mike
 

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12YearOldKid said:
It is one thing for a dentist to lease space from WalMart or a strip mall; it is another thing entirely for Walmart to own the practice and hir the dentist. Walmart is an economy in and of itself and thus has a lot of power. Once they get a foot in the door, there will be no end to the abuses they will foist upon the profession. Super-expanded duties assistants; independent hygiene, treatment plans subject to the whims of non-dentist management, etc... etc... Anything to increase profits.

They will offer super low prices and turnover of new dentists will be no problem for them - plenty more where they came from. Eventually the public will expect all dentists to compete at that level - $300 crowns, weekend hours, free exams. Maybe you don't believe this can happen but look at the pharmacists and optometrists. Yes, a select few manage to open their own practices, but the vast majority end up at Kroger, Walgreens, Walmart, Sears, etc... This was not the case 15-20 years ago.

This will be probably be pretty profitable for the first few dentists who buy into this model, but in the long run it is nothing but bad for our profession. I am not a Walmart hater, but if you value the salary, lifestyle, and autonomy to exercise your professional judgement that dentistry offers, you should be against this.
I totally agree with you. That's all we need is for someone to ***** out dentistry and 10 years down the road we'll be making 10 dollars per hour.
 

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You want to be really carefull, even joking about this topic/concept. If Walmart dentistry was to happen, you just know that the ins. industry would be chomping at the bit to get all over this and then market their plans with walmart prices. If this were to happen, you potentially could see the managed care concept taking over dentistry and dentistry would have happen to it the same thing that medicine did :eek: :mad: :barf:

I know that I may be jumping a few steps ahead, but if you step back and think about it its not as far fetched as you might think!
 

Fullosseousflap

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DrJeff said:
You want to be really carefull, even joking about this topic/concept. If Walmart dentistry was to happen, you just know that the ins. industry would be chomping at the bit to get all over this and then market their plans with walmart prices. If this were to happen, you potentially could see the managed care concept taking over dentistry and dentistry would have happen to it the same thing that medicine did :eek: :mad: :barf:

I know that I may be jumping a few steps ahead, but if you step back and think about it its not as far fetched as you might think!
We have been having the Wal-Martization of dentistry in California for some time now.

When the California Dental Practice Act changed and allowed dental corporations to own multiple dental practices the Wal-Mart type practices arrived.
 

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I could see Walmart joining up with ortho in a OEC/OCA office type thing. Shorter appointments, lower malpractice?, more patients per day, ect. It really is kinda scary when you think about it.

Who wouldn't want to drop the kid off to fix his class II for $1998.88, and then pick up the groceries, get the prescriptions filled, and ohh look at that brand new karaoke machine for $12.67!
 

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Totally unrelated to Walmart.....but am I missing something when "delicious" has a handle that says that he is going to Stanford School of Dental Medicine next year? I know Stanford doesn't have a dental school, so what's up? Is there some crazy same name school in Canada?
 

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Wallmart won't touch dentistry

#1 The ADA is one of the strongest defacto labor unions in the USA. Its members exercise an enormous ability to control the supply of labor.

#2 Unlike pharmacy and opthomology, the practice of dentistry encompases the delivery of invasive surgical procedures on customers.

However, Dr Jeffs's warnings should be heeded. Politics is the biggest threat to dentistry. If the smoldering issue of the "underserved" catches fire and gets political wings a number of negative consequences could result. The dental community (aka ADA) needs to become very proactive and not reactive regarding this issue of the underserved.
 

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I think the majority of Wal-Mart customers are low income people. Now, do you think having a dental practice at Wal-Mart would get any top money cases?
 

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Fullosseousflap said:
We have been having the Wal-Martization of dentistry in California for some time now.

When the California Dental Practice Act changed and allowed dental corporations to own multiple dental practices the Wal-Mart type practices arrived.
So what has been the result? I don't doubt that corporations have had their eye on the money made from dentistry. Multiple McDental franchises will be as hurtful to the independent detist as Wal-mart.This really seems inevitable. No escape from the corporate Borg. "You will be assimilated, resistance is futile"

Omahahahaha said:
Totally unrelated to Walmart.....but am I missing something when "delicious" has a handle that says that he is going to Stanford School of Dental Medicine next year? I know Stanford doesn't have a dental school, so what's up? Is there some crazy same name school in Canada?
Stanford does have a secret dental school, but its by invitation only. They keep a low profile and only invite the best and brightest. I turned down my invite since I was already accepted elsewhere.
 

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airvent said:
Stanford does have a secret dental school, but its by invitation only. They keep a low profile and only invite the best and brightest. I turned down my invite since I was already accepted elsewhere.


Yeah, I think he's full of crap too.
 

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groundhog said:
Wallmart won't touch dentistry

#1 The ADA is one of the strongest defacto labor unions in the USA. Its members exercise an enormous ability to control the supply of labor.

#2 Unlike pharmacy and opthomology, the practice of dentistry encompases the delivery of invasive surgical procedures on customers.

However, Dr Jeffs's warnings should be heeded. Politics is the biggest threat to dentistry. If the smoldering issue of the "underserved" catches fire and gets political wings a number of negative consequences could result. The dental community (aka ADA) needs to become very proactive and not reactive regarding this issue of the underserved.
Don't you mean optometry? Opthomology is pretty invasive. :D
 

Fullosseousflap

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airvent said:
So what has been the result? I don't doubt that corporations have had their eye on the money made from dentistry. Multiple McDental franchises will be as hurtful to the independent detist as Wal-mart.This really seems inevitable. No escape from the corporate Borg. "You will be assimilated, resistance is futile"



Stanford does have a secret dental school, but its by invitation only. They keep a low profile and only invite the best and brightest. I turned down my invite since I was already accepted elsewhere.
Alot of corporate multiple dental office (mill type) offices have sprung up like mushrooms.
 

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Thanks for coming to my aid Gavin, but I also give credit to Fullosseous for being alert enough to catch my momentary brain freeze.
 

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groundhog said:
Thanks for coming to my aid Gavin, but I also give credit to Fullosseous for being alert enough to catch my momentary brain freeze.
Thanks for the credit.... but what did I do before tx oms calls me out again?!

:eek: :eek: :eek:
 

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Zurik5 said:
You couldn't pay me enough to work in a Wal-Mart. Those places drive me nuts. Now a MooseJaw or a Tri/Cycling store, I could get down with.
...I'd work in a Hooters...
 

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toofache32 said:
...I'd work in a Hooters...

The waitresses could double as dental assistants :idea:
 

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kato999 said:
The waitresses could double as dental assistants :idea:
Where do I sign up? I think I'd have to schedule an appointment with my dentist every month.. I don't know about this every 6 months stuff. :D
 

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mike3kgt said:
Any way you look at it, hygiene, dentists, custom bleaching stations, etc. in Wal-Mart locations would probably not be in the best interest of the integrity of the profession.

-Mike
I think this is the key here. The integrity of the profession. An office inside of a WalMart (corporate or private) would cheapen dentistry, put it right between the portrait shop and the hotdog stand. I feel about the same about a practice with a neon sign in the window of a tooth holding a toothbrush.

I am not saying dentists need to be haughty but as a profession we are trying to bring the public to the realization that oral health and overall health cannot be seperated. Teeth are not parts that can just be yanked when they become problematic (not without consequence).

You stick an office between customer service and the hair salon and see just how serious your patients take you.
 

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DrJeff said:
You want to be really carefull, even joking about this topic/concept. If Walmart dentistry was to happen, you just know that the ins. industry would be chomping at the bit to get all over this and then market their plans with walmart prices. If this were to happen, you potentially could see the managed care concept taking over dentistry and dentistry would have happen to it the same thing that medicine did :eek: :mad: :barf:

I know that I may be jumping a few steps ahead, but if you step back and think about it its not as far fetched as you might think!
INSURANCE COMPANIES should be....check out delta dental....they have their tentacles in many, many dental schools....do you really think they are "donating" buildings and equipment without an agenda?
 

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Good post SPBest
 

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DDS2BE said:
I think the majority of Wal-Mart customers are low income people. Now, do you think having a dental practice at Wal-Mart would get any top money cases?
I think this concept is the key. The low socio-economic stature of your average Wallyworld customer (exceptions granted) means probably he/she does not have very good dental insurance, certainly not if they actually work for Walmart (i.e. none). Can a Walmart shopper afford any elective dental work? Not if you look at the dentition of the customers I saw this weekend.

More importantly, however, I believe and you may disagree, that the future of general dentistry lies with aesthetics (and prevention) and will be less and less drill n' fill (also opinion of several GPs I know). Pick your reasons: better oral health, awareness, fluoridation of water, sonicare, celebrity teeth, etc.
That being said, to survive and maintain a growing income level, GPs will expand out to do more elective aesthetic work which is more lucrative.

The socio-economically depressed Walmart crowd is unlikely to be able to afford this type of care (especially if not covered by insurance) and therefore the number of dentists who will choose to/want to cater to them in a general practice will be limited. Keep in mind that those who have the disposable income for aesthetics are less likely to be Walmart shoppers or be caught dead in one.

But like everything else, where there's a niche, there's a dentist. Someone will work for Walmart (as in Canada), and will either live to regret it or make a killing and hate everyday of it.
 

Fullosseousflap

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velikimajmun said:
For those who aren't aware, Target has already begun putting clinics staffed with PAs and NPs in their stores. It's not dentistry but it's a bad sign

http://www.minuteclinic.com
Didn't Sears have dental offices in the Midwest?

Do any still exist?
 

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velikimajmun said:
For those who aren't aware, Target has already begun putting clinics staffed with PAs and NPs in their stores. It's not dentistry but it's a bad sign

http://www.minuteclinic.com
Hey lets go shopping and get sneezed on by all the sickies who are wandering the isles before and after their minuteclinic visits .
 

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groundhog said:
Hey lets go shopping and get sneezed on by all the sickies who are wandering the isles before and after their minuteclinic visits .
:laugh:
 

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Fullosseousflap said:
Didn't Sears have dental offices in the Midwest?

Do any still exist?
looks like it.


http://www.dcpartners.com/

Apparently "sears dentists" aren't afiliated with sears and roebuck inc. But they are a big group of dentists/ dental plan provider type of organization that has licensed the name and operates in their stores
 

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Fullosseousflap said:
Didn't Sears have dental offices in the Midwest?

Do any still exist?

Sears is all but a memory lost in the wind in the midwest. They have closed down numerous stores. Their fate was ultimately that of Woolworth's.

Also, any dentist that values integrity and money would not become a corporate ***** of Wal-Mart. When you support Wal-Mart, you support the New World Order, globalization, slave labor, corruption and the destruction of humanity.
 

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Neon Black said:
Sears is all but a memory lost in the wind in the midwest. They have closed down numerous stores. Their fate was ultimately that of Woolworth's.

Also, any dentist that values integrity and money would not become a corporate ***** of Wal-Mart. When you support Wal-Mart, you support the New World Order, globalization, slave labor, corruption and the destruction of humanity.
Tell us how you really feel.
 

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groundhog said:
Wallmart won't touch dentistry

#1 The ADA is one of the strongest defacto labor unions in the USA. Its members exercise an enormous ability to control the supply of labor.

#2 Unlike pharmacy and opthomology, the practice of dentistry encompases the delivery of invasive surgical procedures on customers.

However, Dr Jeffs's warnings should be heeded. Politics is the biggest threat to dentistry. If the smoldering issue of the "underserved" catches fire and gets political wings a number of negative consequences could result. The dental community (aka ADA) needs to become very proactive and not reactive regarding this issue of the underserved.

This is EXACTLY why each and everyone of us in the dental profession should be ASDA/ADA members. It presents on a lobbying stance for political issues a united front for all of dentistry which is what we need. I know that it may sound like a ton of $$, but the just over $1000 I'm paying now for my annual ADA/Ct State Dental Assoc/CT component society association dues is worth every last cent and then some for all the politcal/business/legal benefits that I get in return. (I.E. the ADA vs the insurance companies and their fee schedules/fair practice clauses, the ADA vs. the politicians and/or the environmentalists/sensationalists on the Amalgam issue.

End of my political rant, not its off to a Ct Dental Association meeting for more dental politics!
 

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Neon Black said:
Sears is all but a memory lost in the wind in the midwest. They have closed down numerous stores. Their fate was ultimately that of Woolworth's.

Also, any dentist that values integrity and money would not become a corporate ***** of Wal-Mart. When you support Wal-Mart, you support the New World Order, globalization, slave labor, corruption and the destruction of humanity.

Yes exactly. And thats why we have so many dumb-OEC whores dental students who will drop all that you are talking about (integrity, values, money) and apply for OEC-corporate funded crap. Because they can't obtain acceptance into a traditional orthodontic program.