Wal-Mart...

[leelee]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060922/hl_nm/retail_walmart_dc_13

I first heard about this while watching the news tonight. I think it will cause some HUGE problems. They are simply doing what they always do--taking a hit so they can drive off competitors--then they will jack up the prices again.
Why do I care? Because I think moves as shady as this could filter down into other professions--including optometry. Besides, if they can get away with it in the pharmacy world, they probably won't stop there. What if Wal-Mart suddenly offered $4 eye exams? I can't even think about it anymore...

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[PBEA]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060922/hl_nm/retail_walmart_dc_13

I first heard about this while watching the news tonight. I think it will cause some HUGE problems. They are simply doing what they always do--taking a hit so they can drive off competitors--then they will jack up the prices again.
Why do I care? Because I think moves as shady as this could filter down into other professions--including optometry. Besides, if they can get away with it in the pharmacy world, they probably won't stop there. What if Wal-Mart suddenly offered $4 eye exams? I can't even think about it anymore...

Actually Walmart has already happened to optometry, and we've lost alot from their ilk. Pharmacy is just the next peg on their scorecard. Whats next? Will other aspects of medical care end up at your grocery store? Oh yeah, thats already happened too. I guess its a new world, everyday after all.

 

[astrife]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060922/hl_nm/retail_walmart_dc_13

I first heard about this while watching the news tonight. I think it will cause some HUGE problems. They are simply doing what they always do--taking a hit so they can drive off competitors--then they will jack up the prices again.
Why do I care? Because I think moves as shady as this could filter down into other professions--including optometry. Besides, if they can get away with it in the pharmacy world, they probably won't stop there. What if Wal-Mart suddenly offered $4 eye exams? I can't even think about it anymore...

I personally like wal-mart. As a consumer they have driven down the prices on so many products to make things affordable for the average day American. As long as Target holds strong in their competition I don't think you'll have to worry about Wal-Mart taking over EVERYTHING. And what if they start offering eye exams for $4, maybe they were overpriced to begin with

 

[PBEA]

I personally like wal-mart. As a consumer they have driven down the prices on so many products to make things affordable for the average day American. As long as Target holds strong in their competition I don't think you'll have to worry about Wal-Mart taking over EVERYTHING. And what if they start offering eye exams for $4, maybe they were overpriced to begin with

Contrary to popular belief they dont drive down prices as much as you might think. They provide lower quality items at slightly discounted prices, these lower quality products are nothing more then the worst chinese made junk found in the dollar store. Maybe the dollar store will open 6 acre buildings and put walmart out of business, I'm sure youll enjoy going to that store also. Currently, in any given small town, its very hard to find quality products on the shelf of a local store (because walmart has put them out of business). Now we have to shop on the internet, if we want something that wont break within the first year. I guess people who like walmart either dont care, and are content with their new junk, or they are to stupid to tell the difference between junk and quality products. which one are you?

 

[drgregory]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060922/hl_nm/retail_walmart_dc_13

I first heard about this while watching the news tonight. I think it will cause some HUGE problems. They are simply doing what they always do--taking a hit so they can drive off competitors--then they will jack up the prices again.
Why do I care? Because I think moves as shady as this could filter down into other professions--including optometry. Besides, if they can get away with it in the pharmacy world, they probably won't stop there. What if Wal-Mart suddenly offered $4 eye exams? I can't even think about it anymore...

its called fee splitting. if the walmart doctor doing the eye exams had any brain, courage, or morals at all she or he would enforce their LEGAL RIGHT to set their own fees. by prohibiting this, walmart would be subject to litigation. now, finding an OD who isnt a money grabbing sellout to do this is another thing.

 

[Ben Chudner]

And what if they start offering eye exams for $4, maybe they were overpriced to begin with

 

[Opii]

And what if they start offering eye exams for $4, maybe they were overpriced to begin with

 

[drmhyde]

Wal mart has done well by me. They leave me alone..I give great care. What's the problem?

 

[drmhyde]

Oh...I set my own fees. WTF are you talking about $4 eye exams?

 

[drmhyde]

You know..there a a LOT of OD's practicing in corporate settings, This thread is a slap in the face of all the OD's who work hard and give excellent care. It doesn't matter where you practice, but how. Be VERY careful.

 

[xmattODx]

You know..there a a LOT of OD's practicing in corporate settings, This thread is a slap in the face of all the OD's who work hard and give excellent care. It doesn't matter where you practice, but how. Be VERY careful.

The corporate place I work at is far worse for optometry than Wal-Mart but Wal-Mart as an entity is good for nothing and no-one. I think that we commercial docs need a slap in the face. You may practice righteously but come look at the charts I see from other docs everyday. Try to practice "good" optometry seeing 40 patients a day with high school drop outs "helping". Your Wal-Mart area director may not dictate the way you practice but visit the Wal-Mart practices I filled in at and see a different story. Just as we shouldn't lump commercial practitioners into one group, you can't claim they all practice good optometry when I would argue the majority do not.

 

[cpw]

there are good and bad docs in ANY setting.... time to reel back in the mud-slinging guys. I've gotten charts faxed in from other docs that just make me cringe. (OMDs included)

 

[xmattODx]

there are good and bad docs in ANY setting.... time to reel back in the mud-slinging guys. I've gotten charts faxed in from other docs that just make me cringe. (OMDs included)

My contention is that the ODs aren't "bad" in commercial, rather the mode of practice leads to sloppy practice. I would further argue that this sloppy practice is more likely in the corporate world where eye exams are so de-valued. No mud slinging intended. I am not opposed to Wal-Mart practitioners rather I am opposed to Wal-Mart the corporation.

 

[still_confused]

I personally like wal-mart. As a consumer they have driven down the prices on so many products to make things affordable for the average day American. As long as Target holds strong in their competition I don't think you'll have to worry about Wal-Mart taking over EVERYTHING. And what if they start offering eye exams for $4, maybe they were overpriced to begin with

and i look forward to the $4 dollar checkups i get from the NPs and MDs that eventually work there

 

[Docc99]

At the OD's office I work at, we get all the aftermath from the Walmart optometry offices. The patients will learn....

 

[posner]

Walmart patients are some of my best patients. They come to me after they have already seen the the boner at the Walmart who told them they just needed an update on their Rx. They show up with the $300 glasses they got at the Walmart dispensary(after the bait and switch) and they cant see worth a crap. A few tests and a quick peek inside and you see a case of CSR or an occult net, or a raging iritis or vitritis. It happens a few times per month. And it is not because I think I am so much better than the dude at Walmart, but I try very hard to think outside the refractive error box.

The problem with Walmart patients is that in many cases they are bargain shopping dolts who think every eye problem known to exist must be remedied with a pair of glasses or contacts. That is why they go to walmart in the first place...they think they can save a buck on their glasses or contacts. This is not to say that all Walmart docs are bad because this is not the case. BUt, the Walmart environment is set up to get patinets to the dispensary where they can buy a glasses that were made by some 12 year old in a sweat shop in Laos. And they do this on the back of an OD who gets $49 dollars and exam. In order to make any kind of living the OD needs to see 15-20 patients a day depending on the deal he or she may have structured with the vision center. It is disgusting if you ask me.

 

[drmhyde]

Walmart patients are some of my best patients. They come to me after they have already seen the the boner at the Walmart who told them they just needed an update on their Rx. They show up with the $300 glasses they got at the Walmart dispensary(after the bait and switch) and they cant see worth a crap. A few tests and a quick peek inside and you see a case of CSR or an occult net, or a raging iritis or vitritis. It happens a few times per month. And it is not because I think I am so much better than the dude at Walmart, but I try very hard to think outside the refractive error box.

The problem with Walmart patients is that in many cases they are bargain shopping dolts who think every eye problem known to exist must be remedied with a pair of glasses or contacts. That is why they go to walmart in the first place...they think they can save a buck on their glasses or contacts. This is not to say that all Walmart docs are bad because this is not the case. BUt, the Walmart environment is set up to get patinets to the dispensary where they can buy a glasses that were made by some 12 year old in a sweat shop in Laos. And they do this on the back of an OD who gets $49 dollars and exam. In order to make any kind of living the OD needs to see 15-20 patients a day depending on the deal he or she may have structured with the vision center. It is disgusting if you ask me.

So...your officice isn't set up to maximize patinets filling thier spec rx? Don't be a hypocrite. Look...dispite our "scope" of practice..our profession relies on the bread and butter. Namely, refractive exams. Do we see pathology? yes...but it is a smaller percentage. If you have an optical in your practice then it behooves you to sell glasses. I didn't say not give them proper care..but selling glasses is a HUGH part of what we do. I think it's a good thing for us. There aren't many other professions that even allow such a thing. And about seeing 15-20 patients a day. That's nothing. If you can't do that you need more practice or more help. Man I know MD's that see 40-50. The point is GIVE GOOD CARE. If that means 3 patients a day for you..good, but not everyone feels the need to be so slow. I'll tell you this. the average patient in my office is a refractive case. Pathology is MAYBE 5-6%. Walmart is not the problem. If you're a ****ty doctor you're a ****ty doctor..plain and simple.

 

[drmhyde]

Walmart in general has been a good experience for me. Like most students my wife and I came out with about $150,000 in debt. I worked for an OD in private practice for 2 years. Nice guy...dead end for me. I quit my job, sold my old condo, bought a new home, opened 2 walmart locations cold and my wife had just givem birth to our son 3 months prior. There aren't too many places you can open for under $2000.00 start up cost. I got all the equipment needed to rock and roll. I didn't pay rent for one year and yhe second year I only paid 5% of gross recipts. (that's NOTHING). The difference is I refused to be anyone's bitch. I didn't sign a contract forcing days, hours, or set fees. I gave the DM a copy of the Texas Opto Act and said I will practice my way or no way. They leave me alone because they know they can't bully me. I won't always be at WM...but it's served me well.

 

[posner]

Both of our offices have very productive labs, We capture well over 90%. However, I have always maintained that any dick nose can put a pair of glasses on your face(as is evidenced by the untrained techs that do the refractions for our ophthalmologist). I agree, that if you are a poor doctor then you are a poor doctor. period. I dont ignore the retail part of our business. In fact quite the opposite. But I approach it differently. I have a superbly trained staff that sells eyewear. I steer the patients to the dispensary when appropriate. I had no intention of putting down doc-in-the-boxes. It is, however, undeniable that there is a very specific patient type that frequents their local Walmart for vision care. I have never viewed Walmart as my competition. In fact, I wish some of my patients would go to the local Walmart and leave us alone...But it is all about perceived value. If you can differentiate your own private practice from the local Walmart and make patients understand the difference, that is the key. AS far as seeing patients goes, I didnt mean that 15-20 was necessarily alot of patients. I do think it is alot of patients to see if all you are doing is spinning dials and referring the rest for addtional care. I can easily(and often do)see 30+patients a day. However, I dont like to see any more than 14-15 primary care exams in a day. It takes longer to see these patients, and aside from the optical it is less profitable. Just my opinion.

 

[drmhyde]

Fair enough...but I'll say this. I have many...MANY patients follow me from the private practice. I have many more leave thier current private practice (even MD practices) to see my wife and me. That's because we're phucking cool and people like us. We do a good job for them and I'm pretty damn sexy, and I have a BIG...heart. THERE!

 

[posner]

YOu touched on THE most important factor in any practice. I learned it in school and laughed when the instructor said, "Patients dont care what you know until they know that you care." I will say this is 100% true. It is the foundation upon which successful practices of any kind are built. I have had patients that I have sent to Stanford or UCLA for second opinions from the experts on very complex cases, and they come back to me before they decide to pursue a proposed treatment. They know that I care and value my opinion. Once a patient knows that you care, they think YOU are the expert and they want you to be involved. Just some food for thought.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

Walmart in general has been a good experience for me. Like most students my wife and I came out with about $150,000 in debt. I worked for an OD in private practice for 2 years. Nice guy...dead end for me. I quit my job, sold my old condo, bought a new home, opened 2 walmart locations cold and my wife had just givem birth to our son 3 months prior. There aren't too many places you can open for under $2000.00 start up cost. I got all the equipment needed to rock and roll. I didn't pay rent for one year and yhe second year I only paid 5% of gross recipts. (that's NOTHING). The difference is I refused to be anyone's bitch. I didn't sign a contract forcing days, hours, or set fees. I gave the DM a copy of the Texas Opto Act and said I will practice my way or no way. They leave me alone because they know they can't bully me. I won't always be at WM...but it's served me well.

Do you feel like you are able to practice more freely in Texas, because if I recall correctly its a two door state? I'm glad people just leave me alone and let me practice the way I want also.

 

[cpw]

Do you feel like you are able to practice more freely in Texas, because if I recall correctly its a two door state? I'm glad people just leave me alone and let me practice the way I want also.

Texas is a two door state, yes.

Florida is not. It took me awhile to get used to it here.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

Texas is a two door state, yes.

Florida is not. It took me awhile to get used to it here.

CPW, are you employed by a corporation or do you run as an independent contractor? Do they leave you alone for the most part or try to influence your scheduling of patients per day or hour. Try you to push certain CL's or spec products/options?

 

[cpw]

CPW, are you employed by a corporation or do you run as an independent contractor? Do they leave you alone for the most part or try to influence your scheduling of patients per day or hour. Try you to push certain CL's or spec products/options?

independant contractor. you can't be employed by corporations in Florida.

They leave us alone as far as number of patients, but they do try to influence how many hours I'm there. A lot of it depends on your retail staff though. Mine leaves me alone... one of the docs I know at another office.. if he tries to leave "early" the retail manager calls and tattles on him. So much for "independent" doctors of optometry.

And no, I'm not pushed at all in how to perscribe, what lenses to sell etc. In fact, we own our contact lens sales. (much to corporates chagrin)

I treat anything that walks in the door as long as it's within my abilities.. I do know when to refer when appropriate. But, I refer a lot less than some other docs in the area. I'm one of the few corporate docs I know in the area who will tackle bitorics or reverse geo. RGPs. I also made sure to educate the staff to know we're more than "glasses and contacts". Red eyes, foreign bodies etc.. are all do-able here. One of the girls who works in a restaurant down at the other end of my building referred all her co-workers to me after I removed an on-the-job glass shard out of her eye. The staff knows to educate the patients that we're open to see them for all their ocular care (not just glasses).

 

[aarlan]

The difference is I refused to be anyone's bitch. I didn't sign a contract forcing days, hours, or set fees. I gave the DM a copy of the Texas Opto Act and said I will practice my way or no way. They leave me alone because they know they can't bully me. I won't always be at WM...but it's served me well.

By your comments, you seem to be the exeption rather than the rule. If only all ODs that practiced at a big box had the same outlook, we wouldn't have many of these conversations. The truth, however, is that many contracts that corporate ODs willingly sign(despite the state laws) do in fact dictate hours, which insurances they must accept (which, if the leasor has an interest in the insurance company, essentially allows the corporation to dictate the exam fees), and other aspects of the practice. they do this often because of a perceived lack of opportunity elsewhere.

my question to you, Dr Hyde, is what makes you think that when the next batch of OD Grads is unleashed upon the public (whether this year, or a year soon thereafter), that your DM (that you won't take any cr@p from) won't drop you like a bad habit in favor of a new OD that will charge 1/2 as much for exams? Please don't give me that song and dance about how much better you are than any of those docs are, and that you are valued, because in terms of business (as these outfits view it anyway), LOWER COST IS ALWAYS BETTER even if quality is a bit diminished. They may not renew your contract at some point to replace you with someone willing to charge less, and someone who doesn't give a damn about the Texas Opto laws, who will be do their bidding better than you will. Just wondering what your take is on this.

AA

 

[Schroder79]

Seeing that I am already a target on one of these threads I risk responding to this one, but you have to give Walmart credit. The only way they can find business in this is because not many optometrists have an M.B.A. It's probably great to have your own business but small businesses don't do very well in this corporate nation. Optometrists are O.D.s no matter where they work. Theoretically they all get the same training. Whether one business model works better than another is purely due to its design. Walmart has a huge cash flow enabling power and coming out of school with a 200,000 debt puts optometrists in a difficult situation.
I would personally like to join a group practice (if I don't make too many enemies before then) that would put any competition out of business so we'll see what happens. Walmart pulled all their stores out of Germany because they weren't making a big enough profit this past summer (which profit is measured in % of sales rather than pure net profit.)
I think that optometry is still here because it is a great benefit to society but it isn't doing well because we haven't really developed or used a mode that fits our society yet.

 

[ericlemonster]

the worst chinese made junk found in the dollar store.

There are many quality Chinese made products. And there is American made junk in the dollar store.

 

[posner]

By your comments, you seem to be the exeption rather than the rule. If only all ODs that practiced at a big box had the same outlook, we wouldn't have many of these conversations. The truth, however, is that many contracts that corporate ODs willingly sign(despite the state laws) do in fact dictate hours, which insurances they must accept (which, if the leasor has an interest in the insurance company, essentially allows the corporation to dictate the exam fees), and other aspects of the practice. they do this often because of a perceived lack of opportunity elsewhere.

my question to you, Dr Hyde, is what makes you think that when the next batch of OD Grads is unleashed upon the public (whether this year, or a year soon thereafter), that your DM (that you won't take any cr@p from) won't drop you like a bad habit in favor of a new OD that will charge 1/2 as much for exams? Please don't give me that song and dance about how much better you are than any of those docs are, and that you are valued, because in terms of business (as these outfits view it anyway), LOWER COST IS ALWAYS BETTER even if quality is a bit diminished. They may not renew your contract at some point to replace you with someone willing to charge less, and someone who doesn't give a damn about the Texas Opto laws, who will be do their bidding better than you will. Just wondering what your take is on this.

AA

Splendid post Aarlan. In the corporate world you are a face in the crowd. No matter how bitchin you think you are. Just ask my best friend who just sold his home and bought another one 500 miles away after being promoted up the management chain only to get a letter in the mail announcing that the company decided to cut 40% of their white collar jobs(one of which was his)in an effort to cut costs and satisfy stock holders. Guess what he is going to get? A whopping 2 months severance.

Posner

 

[orangezero]

been said before in this thread and others, but some things to consider:

1) try to raise your fees $5, or even $1, see how long it lasts
2) leave 1hr early on a saturday (even if you have no patients)
3) call the night before and tell them to reschedule your patients because you are sick.
4) recommend a lens design not sold at their "optical"
5) repeat the above
6) refuse to give their workers a discount (on top of your already discounted exam)
7) repeat the above

You think doing any of these things enough times isn't going to put you on a list for replacement?? Too many new grads and other commercial docs willign to take your spot.


IF you are working commercial you better have a big savings account or a backup plan at all times. It can work for a short time, or a long time, and I don't doubt some will make it their whole lives, BUT it is a trap (that those higher up business advisors at walmart have researched quite well) and there is nothing anyone will say that will make me believe its good for our profession.

ODs ARE all the same, they give optical the Rxs, nothing more. If you think its something more, then you need to rethink why they have you there. Its not so you get to charge $200 for a punctal plug insertion... after all, too many of those and you dont' give out those Rsx

Good thing walmart has so many negatives that some people will always stay away. Giving "over the top care" and being a great doctor (in my opinion) actually does more to damage the profession of optometry because in most cases ODs don't charge appropriately, or do it for free because the patient has no medical insurance. And, those people are left with the feeling that they did get good care (which I would agree they did) and that the services they received are worthless or worth little. The only person to suffer in this whole scenerio is the OD, even if they don't realize it... its easy to rationalize.

Usually the posters that work commercial mention, "I don't plan on being there too long, or its not permanent" but eventually there won't be private practice Optometry to escape to if the public gets all their primary care needs met by suckers at big box shops that perform all services for $29 (or whatever, if you charge $89, whatever) BECAUSE they have to pay off their debt. Everyone has debt. Its just one thing to deal with and its ok to deal with it for decades, especially in this climate.

Truth is, there is no shortage of bad care anyway. Walmart only allows it to flourish in many cases.

 

[eyedoc1991]

You know..there a a LOT of OD's practicing in corporate settings, This thread is a slap in the face of all the OD's who work hard and give excellent care. It doesn't matter where you practice, but how. Be VERY careful.

I am glad you feel the same way toward non-private setting. For those in private practice, they think how you practice refer to how you billed the insurance and how much money you can make. I hope there are more of "us" doctors.

 

[bournehall]

I recently retired from the military and had worked in hospitals for over 20 years as an optometrist. Saw alot of path day in and day out. Now work in an ophth practice and pull call and see alot of path day in and day out. While in the military I routinely moonlighted at commercial places (mostly Lenscrafter and occasionally Wal Mart). I can count on 2 fingers the number of path problems/Rx's written in 4 years at Lenscrafter/WalMart. They simply do not come in, so 99.9999999999% of your work is routine refractions, but WTF not bad income at 50 bucks a pop.

So...your officice isn't set up to maximize patinets filling thier spec rx? Don't be a hypocrite. Look...dispite our "scope" of practice..our profession relies on the bread and butter. Namely, refractive exams. Do we see pathology? yes...but it is a smaller percentage. If you have an optical in your practice then it behooves you to sell glasses. I didn't say not give them proper care..but selling glasses is a HUGH part of what we do. I think it's a good thing for us. There aren't many other professions that even allow such a thing. And about seeing 15-20 patients a day. That's nothing. If you can't do that you need more practice or more help. Man I know MD's that see 40-50. The point is GIVE GOOD CARE. If that means 3 patients a day for you..good, but not everyone feels the need to be so slow. I'll tell you this. the average patient in my office is a refractive case. Pathology is MAYBE 5-6%. Walmart is not the problem. If you're a ****ty doctor you're a ****ty doctor..plain and simple.

 

[drgregory]

I am glad you feel the same way toward non-private setting. For those in private practice, they think how you practice refer to how you billed the insurance and how much money you can make. I hope there are more of "us" doctors.

awww. isnt that precious. no go one and do some refractions, and hope that your corporate boss, the 19 y/o with the blue vest on, keeps noting a stable or positive trend in optical sales - or you may be in the job market. i'll be sure to send all of my emergent disease to your office for its professional setting, and instrumentation such as OCT, GDx, digital ant seg/ret photos, FANG, VF, OBFA, and topo. maybe "you" doctors can figure it out, and with any luck when you get done paying your loan payment for the above mentioned items you'll have enough money left over to swing by the McDonalds in the mall next to your office to bring home enough food to feed your oldest child. maybe, just maybe, at $29 a pop you can achieve this. but i bet you'll likely never try, or even understand what im talking about.

 

[posner]

awww. isnt that precious. no go one and do some refractions, and hope that your corporate boss, the 19 y/o with the blue vest on, keeps noting a stable or positive trend in optical sales - or you may be in the job market. i'll be sure to send all of my emergent disease to your office for its professional setting, and instrumentation such as OCT, GDx, digital ant seg/ret photos, FANG, VF, OBFA, and topo. maybe "you" doctors can figure it out, and with any luck when you get done paying your loan payment for the above mentioned items you'll have enough money left over to swing by the McDonalds in the mall next to your office to bring home enough food to feed your oldest child. maybe, just maybe, at $29 a pop you can achieve this. but i bet you'll likely never try, or even understand what im talking about.

Greg, again you echo my sentiments entirely.

 

[bournehall]

Baby, this is what it's all about!!!!!! Private practice docs, successful ones like W. West, etc. are ingenious on coding, upcoding, or whatever you call it to maximize reimbursement from the insurance carriers. You know, kinda like charging 25 dollars to flip through the color plates and on and on and on and on. Everybody does it, damn it I mean everybody, and you better get on the gravy train because that train has left for the coast and National Health is on the way. BUT, our salvation is simple...make 167.1 a medical diagnosis and all is good.

For those in private practice, they think how you practice refer to how you billed the insurance and how much money you can make.

 

[bournehall]

See, so emotional I accidently hit the one instead of the number three key. Geez, I shouldn't have skipped class the day the typing instructor went over that top row of keys on the typewriter. We all know 367.1 is our salvation!!!!

Baby, this is what it's all about!!!!!! Private practice docs, successful ones like W. West, etc. are ingenious on coding, upcoding, or whatever you call it to maximize reimbursement from the insurance carriers. You know, kinda like charging 25 dollars to flip through the color plates and on and on and on and on. Everybody does it, damn it I mean everybody, and you better get on the gravy train because that train has left for the coast and National Health is on the way. BUT, our salvation is simple...make 167.1 a medical diagnosis and all is good.

 

[hye345]

bookmarking

 

[Foveator]

Our biggest problem in optometry is not being able to see the big picture.
We, as a group, are committed to giving patients excellent care and are good at it. We think of our patients' needs, usually before our own.

WM has other needs. It needs to sell eyeglasses. Lots of them. The ONLY reason an OD is on premises is to crank out Rxs for eyeglasses (there's no profit in contact lens sales). If opticians' current efforts to win the right to refract are successful, you will see ODs DISAPPEAR from WMs and every commercial venue overnight, or as soon as WM or LUX can cancel their leases. WM will put the optician on an hourly wage and collect all of the professional fees for itself. We know that the opticians are not performing a complete eye exam, but the patient-- I mean "customer" -- doesn't.

There are currently plans for 3 new OD schools in the US. There is already a glut of ODs, which is why commercial seems like the only choice for graduating ODs. Where will the additional graduates end up? How will it affect your job prospects and earning potential after graduation?

Optometry is a state legislated profession, meaning the rules and regulations governing optometry in one state may not be the same in another. In order to protect the profession (this should read as "your jobs"), every OD has to be politically proactive. This is done at the state level and membership in your state optometric association is an absolute necessity. You can join as a student member for little or no cost, but it will allow you to see the inner workings concerning our profession.

 

[Ben Chudner]

(there's no profit in contact lens sales)

Funny that someone who posts a response with the title of "Look at the Big Picture" fails to see the big picture when it comes to contact lenses, but other than that I agree with a lot of what you said.

 

[stevemc1]

You know..there a a LOT of OD's practicing in corporate settings, This thread is a slap in the face of all the OD's who work hard and give excellent care. It doesn't matter where you practice, but how. Be VERY careful.

MH you're the one who should be VERY careful. I've read your other posts, and it sounds like you might be one of only a few ODs in Texas that has control over their fee schedule and mode of practice at WM. For that I commend you, and congrats. BUT if you think your situation is common, you are just kidding your self, and alot of impressionable people here. The VAST majority of WM docs in Texas would lose their lease in 30 days if they raised their fees above $39, closed on a Saturday (and some on Sunday), or closed the doors for a vacation. The WM docs I know of, that get preferential treatment are the ones that agree to practice in some of the less desirable WMs (small town USA). In other words, no one else wants the gig.

So if you are suggesting docs search out these good WM opportunites like you have, I would agree. If your are misleading docs into thinking they can practice like you do in cities like Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Tyler, and Midland, etc that's wrong, and that is where the majority of docs want to be. BTW look at my screen name, you'll be able to figure out who this is. Take care padnuh.

 

[stevemc1]

There are many quality Chinese made products. And there is American made junk in the dollar store.

I highly doubt that...Americans don't produce much of anything except garbage, and I can't think of one quality Chinese made good.

 

[stevemc1]

I am glad you feel the same way toward non-private setting. For those in private practice, they think how you practice refer to how you billed the insurance and how much money you can make. I hope there are more of "us" doctors.

What is an "us" Dr.? A doc too afraid to practice without the constraints of a corporate behemoth holding their hand (and administering the occassional bitch slap, and ultimately the fatal lease withdrawal)? A doc that hasn't figured out that quick money now is selling out your future? A doc lacking in the entrepreneurial spirit? Please tell me, what is an "us" doctor?

 

[DrEvil518]

I just wanted to chime in and say it's kinda cool that my hometown (Tyler) is now considered one of the desirable Wal-mart locations in Texas.

Off topic, but usually people have no idea where it is

 

[stevemc1]

Heck yes...my Mom lives there. With over 80,000 people in Tyler and a lot more in surrounding areas, 90% of those folks shop at WM for everything. Tyler Texas IS Sam Walton's wet dream (God rest his soul ).

 

[cpw]

My hubby spent freshman through Jr year at one of the Tyler high schools

 

[DrEvil518]

HAHA! That is so true. When I was home a few weeks ago, my mom took me (gleefully) to the new Wal-mart! She was so stoked that there was a new Wal-mart, even though "our" Wal-mart is within walking distance of our house! I must admit, I caved and got two pairs of earmuffs at $1 each. You can take the girl out of Tyler...

 

[stonegoat]

I don't know if it made the news in the US, but recently in Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada, Wal-Mart announced plans to launch a pilot-project where they would get rid of their OD and have an optician "sight test" with the Eyelogic system. After considerable opposition, they decided to postpone things. This should worry ODs working in commercial settings. It's true there are good and bad ODs both in commercial and private practice, but that's not the point. As a profession we have to elevate our image in the public eye, and educate the public on what we are really all about. Unfortunatley, Walmarts and the like degrade our image and make it very easy for the public to confuse us with opticians. If we want to become integrated into the sphere of health care we need to get the hell out of Walmart. I own a private practice and gets lots of referrals from MDs, and will soon be doing call at the local hospital. What MD is going to refer a patient to Walmart??? Not many. Will opticians beable to refract without Dr. supervision? I think probably....in BC, though not legal, it is a common practice. In short, it's time for an OD image change. It's our responsibility.

 

[stevemc1]

I'm not a proponent for refracting optician legislation, but it might force Optmetrists to start acting like professionals.

 

[HenryH]

Just out of curiosity, how much do Wal-Mart optometrists tend to gross (as in, what they personally take home)? I've heard eye-exam figures quoted in this thread ranging from $29-to-$49-per exam. I chose a number within that range -- $39 -- and did some simple calculations. At a minimum of 15 patients per day, that's $585/day. If you work 5 (?) days a week, that's $2,925/week. With four weeks in a month, that's $11,700 per month, and with 12 months in a year, that amounts to a total yearly gross of $140,400. That doesn't sound bad, at all.

Of course, I'm sure I'm totally wrong in how all of this works, so please excuse my ignorance.

So, what are some low, middle and high-range figures for a Wal-Mart, Sams, etc. optometrist?

 

[optometrist123]

I think if ODs are willing to gain more business sense, there is a great oppurtunity to be able to start your own practice with lots of support. One of the student organizations needs to teach marketing principles. And this would also be a great workshop at a forum. If ODs really got involved in the community it would be much easier. Things like adopting a school. Free clinics at local churches. This could rack in many patients. Wal-Mart is becoming evil. Indoor malls are becoming obsolete. Even partnering with MDs or Dentists would be a smart move.