Walgreens - nurses immunizing patients at a pharmacy- what do u think

[pharms]

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Walgreens has hired nurses to immunize patients at their pharmacies. If pharmacists are more than qualified to do this, than why hire a nurse? I feel like the corporation is implying that pharmacist should not be administrating immunizations, so let someone who knows what their doing deal with it. I must also admit some of these nurses are very efficient. What's your opinion on this?

 

[crossurfingers]

Maybe hiring a nurse is cheaper than hiring a pharmacist or there is a shortage of pharmacists that are certified to give immunizations?

 

[sdn1977]

In CA thats the way it has always been until recently when pharmacists began immunizing & corporations began realizing it was profitable for pharmacists to do so.

Nurses are the most competent folks to give injections, for the most part, since that is what they are trained to do. But...its not rocket science.

In my state at least, the only reason we do it is to increase access to immunizations since there are so few nurses & it is profitable for retail pharmacy to make the service available.

I gave about 70 injections last week....I'd rather fill rxs & counsel than give immunizations, but the season is only about 6 weeks long, so I'm good.

 

[Jeddevil]

Walgreens has hired nurses to immunize patients at their pharmacies. If pharmacists are more than qualified to do this, than why hire a nurse? I feel like the corporation is implying that pharmacist should not be administrating immunizations, so let someone who knows what their doing deal with it. I must also admit some of these nurses are very efficient. What's your opinion on this?

Probably because it is cheaper to hire a nurse to do this for a few months than an extra pharmacist to cover. Some nurses make a lot, many make 25-30 bucks an hour. Saves Wags money to hire the nurse.

I am not saying you are doing this, but I don't see the big push that several of my fellow students have to give immunizations. What is so exciting about giving shots? If you want to do this, become a nurse. I don't want to do so and don't see it as financially feasible for any company to have me as a pharmacist do so when cheaper paid workers can.

 

[alwaystired]

a lot of pharmacists do not want to give shots....so maybe walgreens is actually acknowledging this (but honestly, it's probably just cheaper.)

 

[rxlynn]

Walgreens has hired nurses to immunize patients at their pharmacies. If pharmacists are more than qualified to do this, than why hire a nurse? I feel like the corporation is implying that pharmacist should not be administrating immunizations, so let someone who knows what their doing deal with it. I must also admit some of these nurses are very efficient. What's your opinion on this?

There are some states that do not allow pharmacists to immunize.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Its much cheaper to hire a nurse. Walgreens has a shortage of Pharmacists in most places anyway. The company I work for has been doing Pharmacist immunizations for four years. In fact I just got done with our first clinic this past Thursday. Two Pharmacist immunizing and one tech running the intact station. We did 230 flu shots and 20 pnumonia shots in just under 6 hours. I will put a Pharmacist up against anyone any day for getting things done with speed and efficiency.

 

[cycloketocaine]

I have worked at 2 independent's. At one, we had a pharmacist give all shots. We had 2 pharmacists and did 200 a day. So, it wasn't that hard for her to break away and go give a shot. During flu shot season, we had a LPN come in and give them due to the sheer volume of people. Where I work at now, we do 350 a day, with one pharmacist, who is also the owner, and he refuses to give shots. We have a girl that works for us who graduates from nursing school in December, and he is going to hire her to give shots. If he gave shots, we'd be screwed. There would be no one to check, take scripts, etc. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

[alwaystired]

BTW: the sheer amount of calls just asking about shots is ridiculous---as if the phone didn't ring enough. And our new CVS system, I just love hearing 1 pharmacy call, 2 pharmacy calls.... We aren't giving them, and I just want to say No, we aren't giving them, click, and go back to my flood of work. Have pharmacies always been the place to get flu shots? My first inclination is the doctors office or the health district.

 

[MountainPharmD]

We have the most well organized flu shot clinics in the industry. The Pharmacy is staffed as normal, the flu clinic personnel are extra. Of course this is only possible at a chain pharmacy with a float pool to cover the extra shifts. On our clinic day we had two Pharmacists in the pharmacy and three techs. We then had two pharmacists and two techs working the flu clinic. Runs smooth as silk!!!

As far as phone calls go on the day the ad comes out in the paper I schedule an extra tech to help with the volume of people calling to make appointments. We fill all the appointments within a couple of days so its not a big deal.

 

[Doctor M]

It also depends on wheather or not your state law allows pharmacists to immunize. In the state of florida i believe it is illegal.

Dr M

 

[genesis09]

Pharmacist immunization is legal in 45 states and DC. Some states only allow pharmacist to administer just flu and pneumococcus vaccine, and others, allow them to administer all vaccines. In only 5 states there is no provision.

 

[Doctor M]

Pharmacist immunization is legal in 45 states and DC. Some states only allow pharmacist to administer just flu and pneumococcus vaccine, and others, allow them to administer all vaccines. In only 5 states there is no provision.

Thanks for the update!👍

 

[meg]

I hate needles. *shudders*

 

[realrph]

That's how this is for many pharmacists. If they work in fast paced, volume driven chain as such in Walgreen or CVS (Customer Viral Syndrome), etc, then they don't eat lunch, don't get a break, don't complain. Many RPh's afraid to complain due to job loss, yet being in stage of denial of saying they're happy campers working at Walgreen or CVS or Safeway or Albertson's or Right Aid is not true. As the old saying goes: "lick, pour & stick" even for PharmD's. Clinical knowledge, rotaions, therpeutics, clinical assessments go to waste. What do pharmacists do in chains? Nothing, fill, listen to consumers complaints, don't eat lunch normally. Why do you people think many pharmacists in chainse are obese? Yes, they're if worked for over 5-10 years.
Huh, immunizations, very interesting that in many states it's legal, in others it's not & yet others it's a grey area. Though in grey area states, they still immunize in big chains, not in small shops. They will be fined, & big chains it's a slap on their hands.
RN are the right hand of MD's. Why do you think CVS, Walgreen has signed agreements with "minute clinic" who have nurses -RN to give shots?
They say October is a american or national pharmacist month? That's BS, that's what APHA says, but when shove comes to push, they miserablly fail. All they do is talk & blab for nothing. It's a national "mickey the mouse month" And actually, October is national cancer or breast cancer awareness month is more widely known.
It sucks to be a pharmacist, unless you get lucky & work in better places.🙂

 

[jake7]

1

 

[sdn1977]

I don't know what to think about this issue. I go to Temple Y1 and one of my professors is real excited about the new legislation in PA that gives pharmacists the ability to give immunizations. She constantly brings it up during class to the point of it being embarrassing. Honestly. As another poster replied it is the job of the nurse. They do it best and it limits the liability of the chain. This same professor is really passionate about how nurses and PA's are infringing upon our position as being drug experts but yet does not see the irony in wanting to reduce pharmacists to giving shots. To me this implies that she doesn't have much faith in being the purported drug expert she thinks she is or atleast feels that role of the pharmacist is long gone. Is it? Should I base my entire career outlook on whether or not I can give an immunization? I don't want to and I wish they would stop pushing us to become certified in this. Is this why pharmacists are not organized as a group. I wish they would stop pretending to be nurses and doctors and just concentrate on being pharmacists. Am I just a naive and confused first year? Sorry for my ranting but I am not enjoying school at this point. I am questioning everything.
Any thoughts?

jake...I think you bring up some really good points. First..your professor seems to think or feel we should be "drug experts". Personally, I feel that is a bit arrogant & I doubt anyone is ever really an expert in all drugs. A neonatal pharmacist knows far, far more than me on neonatal drugs & doses than I ever will in all my life. Likewise...I'm way too far behind on the current chemo regimens to call myself an expert in chemotherapy. In addition....a physician specializing in these specialties will know far more about the drugs & their clinical uses than we will - that is their job. However, that does not mean that when we specialize, we are not of value to be able to sort thru the various influences on kinetics, dynamics & doses when the drugs we are supposed to be knowledgable in can vary with patients.

However...generally, we have broad knowledge, the abilitiy to specialize if we want & the ability & capability to easily access accurate & complete drug knowledge for those who need it. We are also very good at being able to transmit the information in a way & manner in which whoever our audience is can understand it.

Unfortunately, I think professors like the one you have, seem to feel we need our "turf" which shouldn't be impinged upon by anyone else. The reality is that healthcare is interdisciplinary. We need those nurses & PA's to do what they are supposed to do. Likewise...we need that physician to evaluate sx, lab tests, xrays & scans & anything else they need to get a diagnosis & start therapy. We are here to make sure that therapy is obtainable, accessible, safe, effective & understandable by the patient.

As for immunizations...well - the thought here when the medical & pharmaceutical professional organizations came together to address a concern by the CDC that adult immunizations were hindered by access...they determined that an effort to certify pharmacists to immunize was the most complete & readily available solution to the problem.

We are the most accessible healthcare provider on a daily basis. You can go into a pharmacy & ask to speak with a pharmacist any day of the week. Within a very short amount of time....could be minutes up to 30 min...you will be able to speak to one.

That is not the case with physicians &/or their nurses. If you've ever tried to call your physician & asked to speak w/ him/her or the nurse...you'll get a call back later that day or days later...

The nurse mediated immunizations just didn't work like they did when the polio vaccine came out, for example. The reason is - there is a huge shortage of nurses & the various nurse agencies just cannot staff enough to provide access.

Nurses don't give immunizations best. Pediatricians give them lots, medics give injections (same as immunizations) in combat, even Peace Corp workers give them in third world countries & they are not health care providers! Its just a task. Easy to learn, easy to learn the precautions & easy to do.

But...if you don't want to do it - don't. Unless you work for someone who requires you to do them or become certified to do them as a condition of employment...choose to do what you feel comfortable doing!

That actually is a good lesson for many things in pharmacy. If you don't feel comfortable adjusting an aminoglycoside dose - don't do it! The risks of doing that poorly are much greater than giving an immunization.

No, jake, you're not naive...just finding your way as a pharmacist. When you stop questioning - you stop learning. Don't stop!

 

[sdn1977]

OK Caverject - rant on!

I spoke too much again😱 (let me know if you need Cliff notes again😳 )

 

[DownonthePharm]

Just because a pharmacist is "allowed" to give immunizations in a state doesnt mean it makes it easy. For example the law book from Oklahoma (which I happened to have near me) says:

"A D.Ph. shall administer immunizations only on the patient specific prescription order of a prescribing practitioner."

Now thats a load of crap hu? When have you ever known a doctor to prescribe a shot to be given offsite?

 

[sdn1977]

Just because a pharmacist is "allowed" to give immunizations in a state doesnt mean it makes it easy. For example the law book from Oklahoma (which I happened to have near me) says:

"A D.Ph. shall administer immunizations only on the patient specific prescription order of a prescribing practitioner."

Now thats a load of crap hu? When have you ever known a doctor to prescribe a shot to be given offsite?

Does your state have collaborative practice agreements? That is what essentially is the case in CA - we prescribe, dispense & administer under the collaborative practice agreement which is signed by a physician.

 

[Caverject]

Does your state have collaborative practice agreements? That is what essentially is the case in CA - we prescribe, dispense & administer under the collaborative practice agreement which is signed by a physician.

ditto in Georgia and most places else

 

[DownonthePharm]

Can you please explain to me what "collaborative practice agreements" are? We havent really gotten into any law/regulation stuff yet.

 

[sdn1977]

Can you please explain to me what "collaborative practice agreements" are? We havent really gotten into any law/regulation stuff yet.

will do...but...I may be brief...as described on another post..I'm doing rehab w/my mom - post op broken hip - pharmacists have to be flexible - particularly when they are someone's kid!

Anyway....the state board of pharmacy with collaboration with the state medical practice board "collaborates" - gets together - & decides what the scope of practice you should have.

In CA - we have a couple - Plan B, immunizations - which are statewide. This means that an individual pharmacist (usually owner of a business) or corporation (think CVS, Wags, etc) gets together with consenting physicians & draws up set practice standards. Who the drug will apply to (Plan B - women only, ages.......; immunizations - vary with the immunization, etc...), the surveying questions we need to ask & ascertain basic information, the restrictions the pt &/or pts conditions might put on the dispensing &/or administration of the drug & concomitant pharmacist training & recertification involved.

The collaborative practice agreement must be resigned annually....It is only good for that one pharmacist/physician, but in my practice setting, one physician signs for about 100 pharmacists - all of my region.


There can be other unique agreements - which cover anticoag, diabetic teaching, etc...within physician groups. These are not statewide agreements as Plan B & immunizations are.

Let me know if you have further questions....I have to make sure my mom doesn't just get up w/her walker & take off!😱

 

[DownonthePharm]

Thank you. Informative as always. 🙂

 

[bananaface]

Let me know if you have further questions....I have to make sure my mom doesn't just get up w/her walker & take off!😱

You need one of those locking systems for the wheels - like the ones some grocery stores have for their carts.

People like getting their shots from someone they know. I don't think we'd have as high of a turnout if we hired a nurse to come in.

 

[pharms]

We have the most well organized flu shot clinics in the industry. The Pharmacy is staffed as normal, the flu clinic personnel are extra. Of course this is only possible at a chain pharmacy with a float pool to cover the extra shifts. On our clinic day we had two Pharmacists in the pharmacy and three techs. We then had two pharmacists and two techs working the flu clinic. Runs smooth as silk!!!

As far as phone calls go on the day the ad comes out in the paper I schedule an extra tech to help with the volume of people calling to make appointments. We fill all the appointments within a couple of days so its not a big deal.

seems well organized. good to know. do you think it may be more cost effective to just hire a nurse to immunize and two extra techs, one to handle phone calls and another to assist the nurse? thanks.