WAMC for DO medical schools

[Damson]

Wow! For those schools that just want your academic record and no entrance exam, my money is on you getting in somewhere. That is, if you have good extracurriculars to report (do they ask for these?) and letters of recommendation.

I don't have connections to PAs, but the general consensus is that
- PAs enter workforce much quicker but make considerably less than physician, less stress, weird hours, and burnout, can hop between specialties, will need to ask for doc's signoff to do certain things, reports to the doc

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

For these schools that both Goro and Faha suggested, do you happen to know by any chance which ones are a true P/Fail grading for pre-clinical years? Mandatory attendance is one thing but P/Fail is a wholeeeeee different ballgame.

Mandatory attendance plus graded system is a recipe for stress, burnout, and disaster.

Thank you.

Check in the school-specific forums.

I repeat that beggars can't be choosy. I suggest that you take a second look at your desire to be a doctor considering that you're already throwing up pre-conditions.

 

[Neuro244]

Thanks Goro. As long as we have this thread going, I just wanted to ask some questions from those of you who have experience. Let's say God willing I get the opportunity to go DO, what specialties would you say is worth pursuing with this degree that would be out of the question for PA?

Another way of putting it is like this: I've heard that if you want to go into primary care such as family medicine, internal medicine, or pediatrics, then in terms of time commitment/salary/opportunity costs/stress/pressure/and all that extra stuff, then it's much better to go PA vs DO/MD. Overall I'm looking to go into either Neurology or internal medicine with a sub-specialty in sleep medicine. If not those fields, then I'd like to have options for maybe Diagnostic radiology and Ophthalmology. I'm trying not to get too ahead of myself but at the same time this is something that's VERY important to consider because you're talking about years of your life here, and I am a bit on the older side being a non-traditional applicant so I have to consider each move I make even more carefully. Salary wise and opportunity cost wise if I end up choosing internal medicine then it's better to pursue PA school rather than DO/MD school (someone correct me if im wrong here). All in all, what specialties would you guys recommend are UNEQUIVOCALLY WORTH PURSUING VIA THE DO/MD route vs the PA ROUTE?

Edit: Once I get there God willing and only want to take the COMLEX and not the USMLE would that severely restrict me in terms of residency options when it comes to matching? Again my thoughts are internal medicine, neurology, diagnostic radiology, and opthamology. Without getting into a heated discussion here, I've heard that this new merger which has gone into effect this year will make it much more difficult for DO's since they're competing now with MD's for residency placements. I'm trying to take everything into consideration with this decision and want to go in with eyes WIDE OPEN as to avoid as much heartache/pitfalls as I can along the way. My end goal is to become a physician, at the same time though, I have to make sure that I pick a path where I know I can succeed and not leave things up to chance/hope/prayer, etc. Thanks.

 

[Damson]

@sb247 @Lawpy @NotAProgDirector

 

[Sky138]

Thanks for the feedback. There are also many PA programs that don't require GRE which is nice. Do u know of any PA's who regret going down that path vs med school?

Plenty. Think about it this way, you might be fine as a PA when you’re in you’re 20s to 30s but how will you feel when a 30 year old, fresh out of residency doctor tells you what to do when you’re in your late 40s or 50s? That is if you get into PA school and if you pass your boards. Also there’s a decent chance you could be very unhappy in the future knowing that you were one solid retake away from getting into a medical school.

 

[Neuro244]

Plenty. Think about it this way, you might be fine as a PA when you’re in you’re 20s to 30s but how will you feel when a 30 year old, fresh out of residency doctor tells you what to do when you’re in your late 40s or 50s? That is if you get into PA school and if you pass your boards. Also there’s a decent chance you could be very unhappy in the future knowing that you were one solid retake away from getting into a medical school.

Yeah that’s true and I’ve thought about that. You also have to consider the fact that I’m a nontraditional student and I’ll be starting medical school and 33 finishing by 37 and then finishing residency most likely by 41. You've mentioned my MCAT a few times now and I’ve already said that I already took the exam three times and I’m not taking it again. I’m not putting myself through that again etc.

 

[deleted480308]

Hi guys,

Please no trolling/negative comments/berating/suggesting to give up.

I was wondering if anyone knows of ANY DO programs that I would suggest/advise to apply to with a 492 MCAT (I've taken the MCAT 3 times already and this is the last one-I know it's horrible but I'm still going to apply to ANY place where I may have even a very small chance at) that would maybe maybe land me an interview with and potentially a possible acceptance. I'm willing to to go ANY DO program even if it's halfway across the world, my overall goal is to become a physician regardless of the initials after my name (I'm a CA applicant). My breakdown was 123/121/124/124.

My overall GPA is 3.81 and overall science is 3.79. I have 5 solid letters of recommendation (1 from an organic chemistry professor, 1 from physics professor, 1 from a psychology professor who I have a longstanding relationship with, 1 from a supervisor for where I used to do volunteer work at a hospice for 3.5 years, and 1 from a professor with whom I did undergraduate research for/with). I'm a non-traditional student as well, currently 32 years old.

Based off of this information/stats does anybody have any actual recommendations without resorting to name calling, negativity, slanderous nonsense, or trolling?

Thank you.

I don’t think you should do this, standardized testing is a deal breaker in medicine

 

[Damson]

Yeah that’s true and I’ve thought about that. You also have to consider the fact that I’m a nontraditional student and I’ll be starting medical school and 33 finishing by 37 and then finishing residency most likely by 41. You've mentioned my MCAT a few times now and I’ve already said that I already took the exam three times and I’m not taking it again. I’m not putting myself through that again etc.

I can understand to 100% not wanting to put yourself through that again. Play thr cards as you see fit for YOU.

 

[Damson]

I don’t think you should do this, standardized testing is a deal breaker in medicine

Can you take a look at his "Thanks Goro..." thread above?

 

[deleted480308]

Thanks Goro. As long as we have this thread going, I just wanted to ask some questions from those of you who have experience. Let's say God willing I get the opportunity to go DO, what specialties would you say is worth pursuing with this degree that would be out of the question for PA?

Another way of putting it is like this: I've heard that if you want to go into primary care such as family medicine, internal medicine, or pediatrics, then in terms of time commitment/salary/opportunity costs/stress/pressure/and all that extra stuff, then it's much better to go PA vs DO/MD. Overall I'm looking to go into either Neurology or internal medicine with a sub-specialty in sleep medicine. If not those fields, then I'd like to have options for maybe Diagnostic radiology and Ophthalmology. I'm trying not to get too ahead of myself but at the same time this is something that's VERY important to consider because you're talking about years of your life here, and I am a bit on the older side being a non-traditional applicant so I have to consider each move I make even more carefully. Salary wise and opportunity cost wise if I end up choosing internal medicine then it's better to pursue PA school rather than DO/MD school (someone correct me if im wrong here). All in all, what specialties would you guys recommend are UNEQUIVOCALLY WORTH PURSUING VIA THE DO/MD route vs the PA ROUTE?

Edit: Once I get there God willing and only want to take the COMLEX and not the USMLE would that severely restrict me in terms of residency options when it comes to matching? Again my thoughts are internal medicine, neurology, diagnostic radiology, and opthamology. Without getting into a heated discussion here, I've heard that this new merger which has gone into effect this year will make it much more difficult for DO's since they're competing now with MD's for residency placements. I'm trying to take everything into consideration with this decision and want to go in with eyes WIDE OPEN as to avoid as much heartache/pitfalls as I can along the way. My end goal is to become a physician, at the same time though, I have to make sure that I pick a path where I know I can succeed and not leave things up to chance/hope/prayer, etc. Thanks.

It just depends on how capable you want to be in whatever type of disease you want to treat

 

[db673]

I also want to add that PA is not suppose to be a backup. People go there because they want to. You’d have to shadow one most likely, think of why you chose that field over others, and have the necessary clinical hours.

 

[deleted859689]

I'm going to also echo what was said above

I also want to add that PA is not suppose to be a backup. People go there because they want to. You’d have to shadow one most likely, think of why you chose that field over others, and have the necessary clinical hours.

I have friends in PA school and even considered the route myself - PA schools usually have different pre-requisite classes than medical school. In addition, they put a large emphasis on patient exposure. There is a dedicated website for PAs similar to SDN (see below link) - you can look there for more information on how to pursue the PA route. If you're dead set on becoming a physician, which you should be before you apply, an MCAT retake is in order. Honestly it would be cheaper in my opinion to remediate the MCAT score or use the money pursuing PA school rather than sending out another AACOMAS application.

Physician Assistant Forum

www.physicianassistantforum.com

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

Dude apply to Touro SMP program. You’ll get in. You have a high enough gpa that tells me you might be able to hack this program. It has guaranteed linkage to the DO program

 

[NotAProgDirector]

IM (especially community program based) and Neuro are lower competitive fields. You'll be able to get a spot as a DO with COMLEX only. Sleep is a non competitive fellowship.
Ophthalmology is crazy competitive. Not happening for you (most likely)
Radiology is competitive. Also likely not happening unless you can do much better on COMLEX than MCAT.

If you want to do Sleep, honestly the best plan is become a PA and specialize in sleep.

 

[Neuro244]

IM (especially community program based) and Neuro are lower competitive fields. You'll be able to get a spot as a DO with COMLEX only. Sleep is a non competitive fellowship.
Ophthalmology is crazy competitive. Not happening for you (most likely)
Radiology is competitive. Also likely not happening unless you can do much better on COMLEX than MCAT.

If you want to do Sleep, honestly the best plan is become a PA and specialize in sleep.

Thanks for responding. Yeah, I realize I would have to do really well on the comlex which has even more questions on it than the USMLE step one. Why is it the best plan to become a PA in order to do sleep?

What bothers me about the PA field Is the lack of prestige, social status, the title is the worst, and you make half the salary doing essentially 85% of what a physician is doing. Additionally, you don’t have the last say and you don’t have as much control over the patient’s care as you would like. It seems like you’re more limited and restricted as a PA, and I also don’t like how you don’t go into as much detail in PA school as you do in med school. As a PA, they teach you just enough for you to be able to take care of bread and butter cases and to treat patients as a general practitioner which is why the profession was created in the first place. I just don’t feel like I would feel academically satisfied or rather proud of myself in the long run if I pursue the PA field as opposed to looking back and saying wow I became a doctor. I see that as a much bigger accomplishment. I currently am not married and don’t have any children and I’m not planning on doing so for at least another 5 to 7 years so I feel like I might as well go all the way if I get the opportunity which is what I’ve been waiting for for a very long time. The only thing that concerns me is getting good enough scores on the COMLEX in order to be able to pursue the specialties, but as you said theyre lower competitive specialties. The fact of the matter is though is that you actually have to know more information for the COMLEX than you would the USMLE due to OMM.

I just don’t want to be in a position where I get stuck having to do either family medicine or internal medicine because if that’s the case then PA is much better, and you save 6-7years of your life. I’ve been having this nagging feeling and this constant replay of these thoughts of wanting to do medical school for like the past 3 years while trying to do well on the MCAT and I don’t know if doing anything else will be able to scratch that itch and finally allow me to be happy with what I’m doing and pursuing. I feel like it’s something I have to do. In my mind, becoming a doctor seems a lot more something to be proud of and significant and I feel that becoming a PA is a step down for me personally.

I’m not bashing the profession whatsoever I think PA schools are extremely difficult based on people I’ve spoken with who are in programs and I think they are fine providers, but just based on my thoughts, feelings, and lifelong goals as well as my personality, I think becoming a physician would be a better fit for me.

If anybody else can shed some light on this and provide their opinions without being condescending, judgemental,negative, or troll like, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you

 

[candbgirl]

I’m not really sure how any of us can really help you at this point. The ultimate decision on what you pursue is your decision! In one of your posts you said something about being a PA if you couldn’t be a doctor! I thought that was a well thought out choice but based on your last post it seems that you really don’t want to be a PA at all. You are correct in many of your statements because being a PA is vastly different than being a physician. It makes sense that you don’t learn as much in PA school as you would in med school because you are training for a fully different profession. It also makes sense that you wouldn’t earn as much but high social status ? What do you even mean by this statement ? And what should physician assistants be called since you think that title is the worse. It’s fairly obvious that you really don’t want to be be a PA and over the years you will be pretty unhappy if you don’t figure things out.

You say you think you will only be happy being a physician. If this is true then you have to find away to get you there. And that means retaking the MCAT after you figure out how to conquer it. Have you gone to a learning specialist and asked for help figuring out how to take a test ? Are you having test taking anxiety as you work up to and on the day of the test? This can be fixed with some work. The MCAT is the first in a never ending series of monster tests physicians(MD and DO) have to take. There are the steps and the licensing exams in every area you want to be licensed in. It’s pretty standard to need BC these days.

Have you spent significant time with PAs? Those that I know are happy(or seem so) and are a part of the team. I’m not sure how many, if any, ended up
as PAs because they weren’t accepted to med school! But it was ultimately all of their choices to go to PA school.

Good luck as you move forward.

 

[Damson]

You will get into a PA school if you applied, if what you said about some schools not requiring entrance exams is true. There is some autonomy in the PA profession. I think you'll be surprised that prestige won't matter much to you anymore as you move forward in your career. The money will already be rolling in by then.

Don't overthink it.

 

[Goro]

Thanks Goro. As long as we have this thread going, I just wanted to ask some questions from those of you who have experience. Let's say God willing I get the opportunity to go DO, what specialties would you say is worth pursuing with this degree that would be out of the question for PA?

Another way of putting it is like this: I've heard that if you want to go into primary care such as family medicine, internal medicine, or pediatrics, then in terms of time commitment/salary/opportunity costs/stress/pressure/and all that extra stuff, then it's much better to go PA vs DO/MD. Overall I'm looking to go into either Neurology or internal medicine with a sub-specialty in sleep medicine. If not those fields, then I'd like to have options for maybe Diagnostic radiology and Ophthalmology. I'm trying not to get too ahead of myself but at the same time this is something that's VERY important to consider because you're talking about years of your life here, and I am a bit on the older side being a non-traditional applicant so I have to consider each move I make even more carefully. Salary wise and opportunity cost wise if I end up choosing internal medicine then it's better to pursue PA school rather than DO/MD school (someone correct me if im wrong here). All in all, what specialties would you guys recommend are UNEQUIVOCALLY WORTH PURSUING VIA THE DO/MD route vs the PA ROUTE?

Edit: Once I get there God willing and only want to take the COMLEX and not the USMLE would that severely restrict me in terms of residency options when it comes to matching? Again my thoughts are internal medicine, neurology, diagnostic radiology, and opthamology. Without getting into a heated discussion here, I've heard that this new merger which has gone into effect this year will make it much more difficult for DO's since they're competing now with MD's for residency placements. I'm trying to take everything into consideration with this decision and want to go in with eyes WIDE OPEN as to avoid as much heartache/pitfalls as I can along the way. My end goal is to become a physician, at the same time though, I have to make sure that I pick a path where I know I can succeed and not leave things up to chance/hope/prayer, etc. Thanks.

I don't know enough about PA to comment.

Most DOs go into FM, IM, EM, Ob/Gyn, PM&R, Neuro, Gas, D-Rads, Path, Psych and Gen Surg is doable, but harder.

At this point, thinking about specialties is premature since you're not in med school, and you're interest will mostly likely change anyway.

What bothers me about the PA field Is the lack of prestige, social status, the title is the worst, and you make half the salary doing essentially 85% of what a physician is doing.
If you want to be a doctor because you crave social status and prestige, I can't recommend this path. In fact, II'm beginning to think that you're unteachable, and as such, I'm going to model good SDN behavior and place you on Ignore, because your attitudes are rather loathsome.

 

[GoPenguinsGo]

Thanks Goro. As long as we have this thread going, I just wanted to ask some questions from those of you who have experience. Let's say God willing I get the opportunity to go DO, what specialties would you say is worth pursuing with this degree that would be out of the question for PA?

Another way of putting it is like this: I've heard that if you want to go into primary care such as family medicine, internal medicine, or pediatrics, then in terms of time commitment/salary/opportunity costs/stress/pressure/and all that extra stuff, then it's much better to go PA vs DO/MD. Overall I'm looking to go into either Neurology or internal medicine with a sub-specialty in sleep medicine. If not those fields, then I'd like to have options for maybe Diagnostic radiology and Ophthalmology. I'm trying not to get too ahead of myself but at the same time this is something that's VERY important to consider because you're talking about years of your life here, and I am a bit on the older side being a non-traditional applicant so I have to consider each move I make even more carefully. Salary wise and opportunity cost wise if I end up choosing internal medicine then it's better to pursue PA school rather than DO/MD school (someone correct me if im wrong here). All in all, what specialties would you guys recommend are UNEQUIVOCALLY WORTH PURSUING VIA THE DO/MD route vs the PA ROUTE?

Edit: Once I get there God willing and only want to take the COMLEX and not the USMLE would that severely restrict me in terms of residency options when it comes to matching? Again my thoughts are internal medicine, neurology, diagnostic radiology, and opthamology. Without getting into a heated discussion here, I've heard that this new merger which has gone into effect this year will make it much more difficult for DO's since they're competing now with MD's for residency placements. I'm trying to take everything into consideration with this decision and want to go in with eyes WIDE OPEN as to avoid as much heartache/pitfalls as I can along the way. My end goal is to become a physician, at the same time though, I have to make sure that I pick a path where I know I can succeed and not leave things up to chance/hope/prayer, etc. Thanks.

Dude... literally all you should be worrying about right now is getting in ANYWHERE. Specialty selection should not even be on your radar with your credetials.

 

[Neuro244]

Dude... literally all you should be worrying about right now is getting in ANYWHERE. Specialty selection should not even be on your radar with your credetials.

Yeah you're right I know. Will do. Let's just see what happens first.