WAMC for pm&r?

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aroundthehorn

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hey, looking for an honest assessment of my chances at matching
School: DO
Step 1: 220/590 Step 2: 240/605
Grades: A's and B's
Clinical: A's and B's
Research: none
Geographical preference: anywhere but Mountain time zone. Would prefer southeast, preferably town of >150k people.
 
If you are a good person and get along with people then you probably have a really good chance. Comlex scores are above average. I recommend doing 2 away rotations / audition rotations.
 
If you are a good person and get along with people then you probably have a really good chance. Comlex scores are above average. I recommend doing 2 away rotations / audition rotations.
Thanks. Just wasn't sure what kind of limitations i'd have not only as a DO, but with a 220 on step 1. I know the elite programs will be out of reach, but I don't particularly care where I match so long as the culture is positive and supportive.
 
Thanks. Just wasn't sure what kind of limitations i'd have not only as a DO, but with a 220 on step 1. I know the elite programs will be out of reach, but I don't particularly care where I match so long as the culture is positive and supportive.

don't sell yourself short.

scores weed out folks who can't pass exams and demonstrate a certain level of academic fortitude. other than that, another 10, or 20 points on your usmle doesn't really make a difference.
 
hey, looking for an honest assessment of my chances at matching
School: DO
Step 1: 220/590 Step 2: 240/605
Grades: A's and B's
Clinical: A's and B's
Research: none
Geographical preference: anywhere but Mountain time zone. Would prefer southeast, preferably town of >150k people.

I agree with the posters who responded before me. Your scores are going to keep you out of VERY FEW programs. Your Step 1-2 scores are slightly better than mine and I attend a very good program. I think that it will be important for you to find ways to stand apart. Your grades/boards are essentially a screen for medical competence, but PDs aren't usually going to make their rank list based upon scores. They want applicants who will be a good fit to the team and can contribute something more than redumentary medical competence. You don't have research experience...that's a missed opportunity. It's a question that was asked on EVERY interview I attended. You're a DO, so I completely GET not being involved in research (it's difficult to come by at MOST DO programs), but I'd have something to say when the question arises (because it will). You don't even have to have anything published (though it would be nice if you did)...but just have something to talk about when you are asked the question on interviews. If I was interviewing you and asked you about your prior research experience...if you told me that research opportunities are limited at your school but that you have sought out research and over the past few months have been working with Dr. soandso on blah research project or case report...that would give me MUCH more hope that you'd be able to meet the ACGME residency requirement of research one day than if you told me nothing at all. You need to give programs a reason to want you. If you don't have a flashy work experience, life experience, or research experience, the easiest way of doing that is by proving that you are competent and would be a good team member on an audition rotation. Through my experience...the majority of applicants who match to my program auditioned. Perhaps we only grant auditions to students with a certain grade point, serving as an initial screen...but I doubt it. Now...it's not impossible to match without an audition...I did it. But I probably checked enough boxes along the way, including interview day interactions, research experience, and a stellar work experience, that it was enough to give my PD enough confidence to rank me higher than applicants with better grades and applicants who auditioned. Find a way to stand apart in a good way. @DMBandFan86 was spot on recommending two audition rotations. If you could do three...even better. If you're a good worker and person...I'd be absolutely shocked if you didn't match to one of the 2-3 programs you auditioned.
 
Thanks. Just wasn't sure what kind of limitations i'd have not only as a DO, but with a 220 on step 1. I know the elite programs will be out of reach, but I don't particularly care where I match so long as the culture is positive and supportive.

There is essentially no bias against DO's in our field. There are only 1-2 programs in the country that are perceived as being anti-DO and only a handful that require a USMLE. Our field is littered with brilliant and accomplished academic DO physiatrists. I'd even say that being a DO can even help you if you sell yourself right.
 
I agree with the posters who responded before me. Your scores are going to keep you out of VERY FEW programs. Your Step 1-2 scores are slightly better than mine and I attend a very good program. I think that it will be important for you to find ways to stand apart. Your grades/boards are essentially a screen for medical competence, but PDs aren't usually going to make their rank list based upon scores. They want applicants who will be a good fit to the team and can contribute something more than redumentary medical competence. You don't have research experience...that's a missed opportunity. It's a question that was asked on EVERY interview I attended. You're a DO, so I completely GET not being involved in research (it's difficult to come by at MOST DO programs), but I'd have something to say when the question arises (because it will). You don't even have to have anything published (though it would be nice if you did)...but just have something to talk about when you are asked the question on interviews. If I was interviewing you and asked you about your prior research experience...if you told me that research opportunities are limited at your school but that you have sought out research and over the past few months have been working with Dr. soandso on blah research project or case report...that would give me MUCH more hope that you'd be able to meet the ACGME residency requirement of research one day than if you told me nothing at all. You need to give programs a reason to want you. If you don't have a flashy work experience, life experience, or research experience, the easiest way of doing that is by proving that you are competent and would be a good team member on an audition rotation. Through my experience...the majority of applicants who match to my program auditioned. Perhaps we only grant auditions to students with a certain grade point, serving as an initial screen...but I doubt it. Now...it's not impossible to match without an audition...I did it. But I probably checked enough boxes along the way, including interview day interactions, research experience, and a stellar work experience, that it was enough to give my PD enough confidence to rank me higher than applicants with better grades and applicants who auditioned. Find a way to stand apart in a good way. @DMBandFan86 was spot on recommending two audition rotations. If you could do three...even better. If you're a good worker and person...I'd be absolutely shocked if you didn't match to one of the 2-3 programs you auditioned.
Thanks. Research is one of my biggest regrets. I had a stipend research position, but due to a life altering event had to decline. This is a tedious and nerve wracking process to say the least.
 
If research is a big regret, you can always still try to publish a good case report. They really don't take that much time. But if you are interviewing this season then you might be too late. I wasn't sure what year student you are.

Overall, I don't think having research is a requirement. If you want to get a residency spot at one of the big research institutions, then yes you are probably going to need to have a good research background with some publications. Either that or rotate at the program and make a great impression. Personally, I had undergrad research but no medical school research and am an osteopath. During my interviews I always stated that I wanted to do clinical medicine, but was open to research and looking forward to doing some during my residency. I also talked about my undergrad research. Matched into my #1 program. Did not take USMLE so I can't comment about your scores.
 
I'm not going to be able to speak on the number or which programs to apply to per board score.

However, as mentioned on these forums before, for most PM&R programs the board scores are mainly used as an initial screening tool. Whatever that board score is will vary for each institution. However, I would imagine that as PM&R is becoming more competitive and programs are getting too many applicants to handle, that more programs will have board score cut offs and will use higher scores as time goes on.

So to be accurate, it doesn't matter how many programs you apply to necessarily, it matters that you apply to enough programs that have a lower cut off score than your board scores. Once you are screened in and get an interview, there are more important factors that programs are looking at. Knowing what programs have cut off scores and what these scores are is unknown. Therefore, I always recommend to apply to a broad number of programs. And I always recommend to do away rotations and show them that they should pick you for a resident.
 
Op, I hope you dont mind me piggy-backing on your topic.

Given the rapidly increasing step scores in pm&r (214 median in 2011, 220 in 2014, 226 in 2016), I expect the median to be around 230 this year. So, what specific programs would you guys suggest to a current applicant with,
210?
220?
230?
240?

Very few programs post their cut-offs. And some of the elite programs may actually have lower median board scores than other less regarded program because location is an enormous factor. I think that it would be a mistake to not apply to a program you really like based on the fear that your scores may not be good enough. I think that those with low scores should throw out more applications, but I wouldn't focus on a specific set of programs.
 
Somewhat tangential, but wanted to add-- regardless of your scores, you may be surprised by some of the programs that are either less spoken of (on SDN) or aren't considered "top" per Doximity stock. I found that many of the programs I absolutely loved during the interview process were places that don't necessarily have SDN fanboys drooling while some of the so called "elite" programs I visited were not my cup of tea. My point being, just apply broadly and visit a variety of places. You might be surprised what you end up liking.
 
Somewhat tangential, but wanted to add-- regardless of your scores, you may be surprised by some of the programs that are either less spoken of (on SDN) or aren't considered "top" per Doximity stock. I found that many of the programs I absolutely loved during the interview process were places that don't necessarily have SDN fanboys drooling while some of the so called "elite" programs I visited were not my cup of tea. My point being, just apply broadly and visit a variety of places. You might be surprised what you end up liking.
That's actually really encouraging. What I'm taking away from this is just cough up the money and apply to a load of programs in every geographical location I could possibly see myself living.
 
That's actually really encouraging. What I'm taking away from this is just cough up the money and apply to a load of programs in every geographical location I could possibly see myself living.
You can always cancel a few interviews if you get overloaded with invites. OTOH, you can apply to more programs if you get nervous about the number of invites trickling in.
 
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