WAMC/General Advice Needed (2022-2023)

[babyangecakes]

Hello. Forgive me for any awkwardness, I have never posted one of these because I never had enough Reddit karma so I decided to come here for advice (plus Reddit scares me sometimes).

cGPA 3.95, sGPA 3.92
MCAT score (hold on for the ride) initially took the MCAT in May 2021 and got 505, was essentially convinced/bullied to retake it so I retook it in May 2022 and got a 499 (I know this is not a good look, I get it, but it happened; also very confused bc I was testing 508+ on practice exams)
NYC resident
Hispanic so URM
Undergrad @ honors college @ CUNY, graduated May 2021
Clinical Experience: Scribe for a year and still going, currently in an EMT course to get volunteer experience once I graduate from that (in the very very slim chance I get an interview it is something to talk about, plus I enjoy helping people)
Research Experience: 4 years with one lab where I got 4 publications (3rd & 4th author ones, not the last author tho), an NSF research program during the last semester of senior year, and a summer research internship at Brown University (this past summer)
Shadowing Experience: 200 hours with a neurologist/psychiatrist (MD) and ~36 virtual shadowing through the Virtual Shadowing Program (various specialties, will likely keep doing)
Non-clinical Volunteering: peer mentor for my school, volunteer activities through Pre-Health Club, and volunteering through Brighten A Day (aims to help combat isolation)
Extracurriculars: was a tutor for 2 years at my school (junior to senior year), during my gap year was when I scribed and did the recent summer research internship, plethora of posters presented
Honors/Awards: research award @ my school, Dean's List throughout the entire undergraduate
Anything else: Applied late (in early August) bc my committee last minute needed me to have all my recommenders resend everything and then the lady who compiles the stuff was transferring and blah blah blah. Pretty much finished all secondaries w/in 2 weeks of getting them. First-gen student so had zero clue how any of this even worked and am going THROUGH it rn.

So essentially I applied to 18 DO schools and 5 MD schools (3 of the MD schools specifically said they look at the higher MCAT score so fingers crossed I guess and the other 2 stressed a holistic review). Also, none were top-notch schools I am pretty sure. I guess I know my chances are very slim, I get that. I guess I'm looking for general advice for this cycle and for the future. I plan to apply for an MPH @ CUNY bc it's online and cheap and my advisor said schools like an MPH in the event I do not get in. I am also currently applying to TouroCOM's MS program because I think I can do really well in class settings and potentially get into their DO program through that. This is kinda what I am aiming for I guess since my partner just got into their PA program so COL would be cheaper if we can split a place). IDK about MCAT a third time; if that one doesn't come out well then I am essentially blacklisted. Also, this application cycle left me broke (no advice needed there just wanted to vent sorry).

Essentially, I have no preferences, I guess? I know I say I guess a lot but I'm really just burnt out and exhausted and feel zero hope. If any school takes me I am in. TBH if I did have a preference it would be a DO school, IDK why it just seems like that is what I would wanna do with my life. What do you guys recommend I do? Literally am open to anything, but am slightly hesitant to take the MCAT again bc of the stakes. IDK. Lemme know if I can add any info.

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[chilly_md]

Getting a 499 the second time definitely hurts. It is good you applied broadly and mostly DO. Did you hear back from any of them yet? What was your full list? What specific ethnicity are you?

Virtual shadowing is of little value. I would not put any more time into it. It would help to shadow a DO in-person (particularly one in primary care) and get a letter from them. What were your hours for each of those non-clinical volunteering activities? From what you’ve shared so far, there’s not much that is off-campus and more hands-on with the local community.

The MPH will not help your chances. It seems you want to do it essentially for that, and it would not be the best use of your time. Your grades are great already.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You really don't need an SMP with a 3.9 GPA unless you took practically no biomedical science courses. It's your MCAT retake that really pulled you down on first blush. I think you ultimately have to consider a third take but be careful as some schools will initially average all attempts when screening you first... but I'm not sure I see any other alternative unless you do some serious networking with SNMA and NHMA. Depending on your childhood/background, I would consider the HBCU medical schools. MPH is a waste of money in your case.

Stop the virtual shadowing but pick up in-person shadowing in a FM/IM/peds/ER area. Your scribing likely helps you there.

Non-clinical volunteering: what experience OFF-CAMPUS have you had? You list opportunities that are connected with University. That's okay, but if we are talking about improving your application, going off-campus for a community service committed activity will help.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Do you have testing anxiety? See if you've got that. If you were feeling ill on Test Day, there's a simple fix for that: reschedule! A 510+ retake would help you a lot.

 

[babyangecakes]

Getting a 499 the second time definitely hurts. It is good you applied broadly and mostly DO. Did you hear back from any of them yet? What was your full list? What specific ethnicity are you?

Virtual shadowing is of little value. I would not put any more time into it. It would help to shadow a DO in-person (particularly one in primary care) and get a letter from them. What were your hours for each of those non-clinical volunteering activities? From what you’ve shared so far, there’s not much that is off-campus and more hands-on with the local community.

The MPH will not help your chances. It seems you want to do it essentially for that, and it would not be the best use of your time. Your grades are great already.

Yeah, the 499 kinda broke me.

I just received an interview for TouroCOM this past week.

I am Hispanic!

Virtual shadowing was decent when my original plan was to apply in 2021. I continue it now because it takes very little time. The problem with trying to shadow in person is that I live in a small underserved area and most docs continue telehealth and also dislike shadowing interns. I am currently in an EMT course so maybe I can meet a doc through that when I start working. I do have a DO letter from scribing and an MD letter from previous in-person shadowing.

Peer mentoring was 15 hours, Pre-Health Club stuff was ~50 hours, and Brighten A Day was ~15 hours (will likely continue doing this, not even just for application but because I love their mission). I'll try looking for more local community volunteering opportunities!

The MPH was a suggestion by my advisor but it was a fallback if DO or MS --> DO doesn't work out.

Thank you for your advice so far! It means a lot!

 

[chilly_md]

Yeah, the 499 kinda broke me.

I just received an interview for TouroCOM this past week.

I am Hispanic!

Virtual shadowing was decent when my original plan was to apply in 2021. I continue it now because it takes very little time. The problem with trying to shadow in person is that I live in a small underserved area and most docs continue telehealth and also dislike shadowing interns. I am currently in an EMT course so maybe I can meet a doc through that when I start working. I do have a DO letter from scribing and an MD letter from previous in-person shadowing.

Peer mentoring was 15 hours, Pre-Health Club stuff was ~50 hours, and Brighten A Day was ~15 hours (will likely continue doing this, not even just for application but because I love their mission). I'll try looking for more local community volunteering opportunities!

The MPH was a suggestion by my advisor but it was a fallback if DO or MS --> DO doesn't work out.

Thank you for your advice so far! It means a lot!

That is good to hear that you got an interview.

I did see you wrote Hispanic in your original post, I meant more where your parents or ancestors can trace their heritage. Some applicants have a background from a South American country as opposed to Mexico or Puerto Rico. Fluency in Spanish always helps as well if that applies to you.

The MD you shadowed may have leads for physicians who are open to shadowing. Scribing usually counts as shadowing too, but if they used teledocs for that, that is a bit different from what usually happens.

 

[babyangecakes]

You really don't need an SMP with a 3.9 GPA unless you took practically no biomedical science courses. It's your MCAT retake that really pulled you down on first blush. I think you ultimately have to consider a third take but be careful as some schools will initially average all attempts when screening you first... but I'm not sure I see any other alternative unless you do some serious networking with SNMA and NHMA. Depending on your childhood/background, I would consider the HBCU medical schools. MPH is a waste of money in your case.

Stop the virtual shadowing but pick up in-person shadowing in a FM/IM/peds/ER area. Your scribing likely helps you there.

Non-clinical volunteering: what experience OFF-CAMPUS have you had? You list opportunities that are connected with University. That's okay, but if we are talking about improving your application, going off-campus for a community service committed activity will help.

I took all required science courses and some extra: gen bio 1 & 2 with labs, gen chem 1 & 2 with labs, orgo, biochem, physiology, genetics, molecular bio, etc.

I agree, the retake really kinda hurts my app. HBCU would likely not apply given my background. The MPH was a recommendation from my advisor as an interim type thing. I am currently applying to Touro's MS program in the hopes to do well and get into their DO program because that seems to be a fitting option and some students I know said the MS program really strengthened their science skills which I may need since it will be almost 2 years since graduation.

Virtual shadowing was just something I started in the midst of the pandemic since I had to stop my previous in-person shadowing. I only continue it now because it takes very little time. Shadowing in person is difficult because I live in a small underserved area and most docs continue telehealth and also dislike shadowing interns, but I am currently in an EMT course so maybe I can meet a doc through that when I start working. I am still a scribe tho!

So my Brighten A Day volunteering is my off-campus experience. It takes a lot of work to get the actual hours, but I am still continuing it. I can try looking into NY Cares for additional community service since they connect with a lot of soup kitchens and stuff.

Thanks for the advice! It means a lot!

 

[babyangecakes]

That is good to hear that you got an interview.

I did see you wrote Hispanic in your original post, I meant more where your parents or ancestors can trace their heritage. Some applicants have a background from a South American country as opposed to Mexico or Puerto Rico. Fluency in Spanish always helps as well if that applies to you.

The MD you shadowed may have leads for physicians who are open to shadowing. Scribing usually counts as shadowing too, but if they used teledocs for that, that is a bit different from what usually happens.

I cannot tell you how excited I am about the interview. Trying not to be too hopeful in case things go south, but a part of me is still excited! Any tips?

Sorry, I forgot I put Hispanic in the original post. I trace my heritage from Puerto Rico, including the native Taino tribe, and Spain. I am nearly fluent!

My year of scribing before was in-person, so that's good, about ~2000 hours. I am remote now so it's just plain old scribing now.

 

[babyangecakes]

Do you have testing anxiety? See if you've got that. If you were feeling ill on Test Day, there's a simple fix for that: reschedule! A 510+ retake would help you a lot.

I have had massive testing anxiety, literally since I was a kid. I wake up physically in pain, tachy, dizzy, and nauseous. But I have tried hundreds of tips and it's only minimally helped. I've spoken to psychiatrists, psychologists, guidance counselors, etc. and my girl testing anxiety just keeps swimming. I looked into accommodations briefly, but tbh I have too much general anxiety, as you can probably tell from my initial post, and will likely downplay my situation. Plus, the psychiatrists in my area are historically unhelpful.

The issues with a reschedule, at least to me, are (1) the likelihood I will do even worse or not much better, (2) my skills in the sciences are diminished already since I'm two years out, (3) some schools might average scores even IF I do well, (4) another retake would be a lot of time, money, and mental strength, and (5) another retake would make 3 total MCAT's which would probably make me need to do at least 510+ or 512+ to even seem like it was worth it.

BUT, I am out of my element so if you all think a retake is the best course, I could try.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Okay... it make some sense with not having many options left with undergrad courses, but the high sGPA is evidence of mastery of science material.

The risk is that you would do badly on an SMP even though chances are you might be okay. What if you had a semester of B grades? How would you handle introducing doubt in another area of your application where your NCAT retake already has.

Find a program with very strong mentoring. Hopefully the program you found does this very well. (I presume so. )

Good luck on this interview; make this discussion moot.

 

[chilly_md]

I cannot tell you how excited I am about the interview. Trying not to be too hopeful in case things go south, but a part of me is still excited! Any tips?

Sorry, I forgot I put Hispanic in the original post. I trace my heritage from Puerto Rico, including the native Taino tribe, and Spain. I am nearly fluent!

My year of scribing before was in-person, so that's good, about ~2000 hours. I am remote now so it's just plain old scribing now.

See Goro’s posts for detailed tips on the interview:

Goro's guide to DO school interviews

Everything I've posted here applies, but a few additions are below. https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/goros-guide-to-interviews-2018-edition.1330559/ Everything on the other post holds true, but you also need to show that you know something about Osteopathy. Please don’t simply parrot...

forums.studentdoctor.net

A mock interview is always helpful too (both for MMI and traditional practice).

I am not sure if you included them in your original list, but the MD schools in Puerto Rico would definitely have been good to apply to.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Medical school is a stressful experience. Will you be able to handle both it and the anxiety? I’d advise thinking long and hard about that now; you don’t want to find out that the anxiety is too much when you are a first year…or a third year, tired after a long surgery rotation. It’s a personal choice; no shame in either decision you choose to make. Good luck with everything.