MD WAMC/ Help! cGPA:4.0 MCAT: (Only Practice) 512, Great research but low prestige undergrad

[poby1526]

Hi.

I desperately need your advice on my next step toward an MD-PhD.

I am first generation immigrant to the US. (Soon get a physical PR card, hopefully before the application closes) (Asian Male, 27)

I am aiming for an MD-PhD but I have no idea what strategy I should use regarding finishing my second undergraduate degree.
I hope and need your honest, objective opinion as this is linked to my physical immigration plan to the US.

Current status:
Second Undergrad 1 (US, Current, biology, 2023.05-current):4.0/4.0, One of SUNY Campuses (Not even ranked within the top 500.)
- Enrolled in 2 semesters by the time of application for 24-25 cycle
- Science courses with grades taken by the time of application: Biology 1, Chemistry 1, Neurobiology, Cell Biology, Human Biology, Genetics

Master's degree in science (Non-US, Artificial Intelligence)

(The first undergrad is from non-US and will not be included in AMCAS, according to their guidelines)

MCAT : (Only practice exam, so, low credibility. Studied less than one month) :
512. Planned to take the MCAT in April.

Publications:
Three 1st authored papers, each at reputable journals regarding medical AI and augmented reality

Six other Co-authored papers in the medical AI and AI field.

One master's thesis paper on AI and sign language

Total papers (both first and co-authored): Ten

Total citations: 19.


Clinical activities :
(Scheduled): In February, I arranged a shadowing activity at a university hospital in Asia. Subspecialty in general surgery
Hours = 150+ hours

Professional activities :
1. (Scheduled): Lecturer at one of the top 3 Universities in one of the countries in Asia(2024 March - 2025. March),

2. Medical AI researcher
(2021.July - 2023. April)

Total: Around 2 years

Non-clinical volunteering:

Computer science education volunteering at one of the countries in Central Asia.

Hours = 120

Leadership:
Undergraduate university department class vice president
(2017-2018)

These are my honest, genuine CV.

Here is what I have in mind :

Could you please share your objective opinion on whether I would have a shot in MD-PhD schools? Would I have a shot in the top 20?

I am anxious that because of my low-prestige undergrad (probably not even ranked top 500), I would not have a shot at an MD-PhD

Choice 1: Transfer undergraduate to great, top universities
(Columbia, NYU, CMU, or other schools that accept second bachelors),
delay application for 1 year, and apply for 25-26 cycles.

Pros: Secure more study time for MCAT (Currently studied less than 1 month)
Able to take more prerequisite courses before application
Better undergraduate prestige

Cons: Life plan delayed by a year
Fewer savings before matriculation.

Choice 2: Finish undergraduate at current university

Pros: (If admitted) The life plan is short as compared to Choice 1.
More savings as I can currently do both work and undergraduate work.

Cons:
The risk with lower undergraduate prestige
I searched for current MD-PhD student profiles of the top 20 medical schools
and found out that they came from at least the top 50, or at least, the top 100 universities.
I doubt if undergraduate prestige of lower than the top 500 would have a shot in the top 20 MD-PhD.
But I just have no one to ask.

Thank you very much for reading.

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[theoceanman]

We would need your actual MCAT to give you advice, suggestions, and feedback for school options. A 512 is usually on the lower end of the spectrum for MD-PhD's. Being from an undergraduate of a lower prestige does not usually hurt you, at least not that I have heard from peers and family, but being from a prestigious one may give you a slight edge just because of the whole "name-value" aspect.

I would recommend getting 50+ shadowing hours in within the United States as the hospital systems are quite different here compared to Asia, get at least 150 non-clinical volunteering hours in through community service such as the Salvation Army or other nonprofit organizations, and try to get a higher MCAT score than your current practice exam one.

 

[poby1526]

We would need your actual MCAT to give you advice, suggestions, and feedback for school options. A 512 is usually on the lower end of the spectrum for MD-PhD's. Being from an undergraduate of a lower prestige does not usually hurt you, at least not that I have heard from peers and family, but being from a prestigious one may give you a slight edge just because of the whole "name-value" aspect.

I would recommend getting 50+ shadowing hours in within the United States as the hospital systems are quite different here compared to Asia, get at least 150 non-clinical volunteering hours in through community service such as the Salvation Army or other nonprofit organizations, and try to get a higher MCAT score than your current practice exam one.

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply!
I was concerned with undergraduate prestige because I had hardly seen anyone with an undergrad below a flagship state school
among MD/PhD students in the top 20 like Harvard, Johns Hopkins, etc...
(Please note that my current one is not even listed in the top 500, probably the top 1000)

If I manage to nail the MCAT with over 518+, do you think that my undergraduate prestige and the courses taken would have very little negative impact on MD/PhD competitiveness?

Thank you so much!!

 

[theoceanman]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply!
I was concerned with undergraduate prestige because I had hardly seen anyone with an undergrad below a flagship state school
among MD/PhD students in the top 20 like Harvard, Johns Hopkins, etc...
(Please note that my current one is not even listed in the top 500, probably the top 1000)

If I manage to nail the MCAT with over 518+, do you think that my undergraduate prestige and the courses taken would have very little negative impact on MD/PhD competitiveness?

Thank you so much!!

I believe undergraduate prestige is easily overlooked by stats. Prestige of undergraduate is one of the minor factors in an application, it will not affect your application as much as you are worried about. Best of luck on your MCAT!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It would be interesting how the posters in the Physician Scientists forum feel about publications focused on AI. Usually, established MSTP labs are wet labs so I would want to know how well your work clicks with what the MSTP PIs do. Granted, you will likely switch topics as the process of research is important for MSTP applicants.

Let's get to your profile.

All of your coursework is outside the US, including a master's thesis. I would consider you taking a postbac program focused on your prerequisites ("career changer") so you have at least some grades AMCAS and the medical schools can evaluate. I would do this before taking your MCAT, despite your practice scores to date; if not, things will be out of order or you risk getting a low MCAT that takes you out of contention. Finish your US bachelor's degree.

Your clinical activities need to be done in the US. Not negotiable here.

I don't know why you don't want to pursue just a PhD. Your CV rings like a lecturer at a university, and it sounds like you are very happy and accomplished in your area of computer science (19 publications). I don't know how you want to use your training in health care to this end, not would I know if it is worth the decade of effort and relative poverty when AI/CS is more lucrative.

 

[poby1526]

It would be interesting how the posters in the Physician Scientists forum feel about publications focused on AI. Usually, established MSTP labs are wet labs so I would want to know how well your work clicks with what the MSTP PIs do. Granted, you will likely switch topics as the process of research is important for MSTP applicants.

Let's get to your profile.

All of your coursework is outside the US, including a master's thesis. I would consider you taking a postbac program focused on your prerequisites ("career changer") so you have at least some grades AMCAS and the medical schools can evaluate. I would do this before taking your MCAT, despite your practice scores to date; if not, things will be out of order or you risk getting a low MCAT that takes you out of contention. Finish your US bachelor's degree.

Your clinical activities need to be done in the US. Not negotiable here.

I don't know why you don't want to pursue just a PhD. Your CV rings like a lecturer at a university, and it sounds like you are very happy and accomplished in your area of computer science (19 publications). I don't know how you want to use your training in health care to this end, not would I know if it is worth the decade of effort and relative poverty when AI/CS is more lucrative.

Hello.

Thank you very much for your kind replies!

Also, I really appreciate how you deeply analyzed my situation!

Just for the information, my second undergraduate is from one of the SUNY Campuses, which is US Institute.

Yes! my CV does look like a PhD applicant and would raise doubt "why would you pursue medicine when you can earn more in CS?"

But to me, researching, publishing papers in medicine, especially in intersection of AI meant more than dollars and cents!

My recent research progress on assisting MD professors at university hospitals with AI did convey some clinical implications and this thrilled me.

Any how, if clinical experience (shadowing, volunteering, and else) to be done on US is non-negotiable, I'd need to apply next year after I gain US experience, right?
(Although I am still pursuing shadowing at my home country, which is globally top 50 hospital. This is my personal aim)

Thanks again for your thoughtful comment!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Yes! my CV does look like a PhD applicant and would raise doubt "why would you pursue medicine when you can earn more in CS?"

It's more than just that. It's not clear how your pursuit of an MD/PhD is in line with what your passion is. Most MD/PhD's wind up in academic medical center administration or spearheading research in translational medicine. I'm not sure if you can find an AI project that could get you where you want to go.

Furthermore, 19 publications already under your belt means you may already overqualified. You need to network around with MD/PhD's. I say this because returning to being the lowest rank in a scholarly environment is difficult for anyone who has been successful in academia. Med school education does not really do a great job with personalization.

But to me, researching, publishing papers in medicine, especially in intersection of AI meant more than dollars and cents!

My recent research progress on assisting MD professors at university hospitals with AI did convey some clinical implications and this thrilled me.

The challenge is finding a school that you qualify for that shares this passion with you and how you fit patient care as a physician/resident into your passions. It's going to take a longer time than you realize.

Frankly, medical schools are looking for experts like you as they ramp up programs to teach AI in healthcare. Example:

AI in Medicine Certificate

Explore our AI in Medicine certificate program and how having an understanding of AI principles can prepare you to lead in healthcare.

bioengineering.illinois.edu

Note that the course isn't limited to doctors. PAs, veterinarians, engineers, and administrators are all interested.

Any how, if clinical experience (shadowing, volunteering, and else) to be done on US is non-negotiable, I'd need to apply next year after I gain US experience, right?
(Although I am still pursuing shadowing at my home country, which is globally top 50 hospital. This is my personal aim)

Thanks again for your thoughtful comment!

The problem is that reputation of your hospital isn't going to matter. If anything, it will work against you in US med school admissions.