WAMC MD/PhD low clinical experience

[jaroune]

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Hi everyone, I'm considering applying to MD/PhD programs this cycle but am now having second thoughts due to a lack of clinical experience. Is it worth shooting my shot this cycle or would it be wiser to accumulate more experience before applying? I graduated in 2021 and am currently expecting to take 2 gap years before matriculation (in my 1st gap year right now).

1. cGPA: 3.88, sGPA: 3.89
2. MCAT: 520 (131/128/132/129) -- expires after this cycle
3. State of residence: MI
4. ORM (asian)
5. Top public undergrad
6. Clinical experience: hospital volunteer (will have ~60-70 hrs by application, and projecting around 200 total hours by matriculation) which I started Jan 2022
7. Research experience: 4000+ hours (2000 hours across 3 undergrad labs, 2000+ hours in gap year lab). Will have 2 middle-author pubs by application.
8. Shadowing: 40 hrs virtual (don't think it counts for much), 30 hrs so far with an oncologist. Currently looking for more hours across different specialties.
9. Non-clinical volunteering: 500 hrs serving my local unhoused community
10. Other ECs: 1000+ hrs athletics, 500 hrs orgo TA, 300 hrs dancing, several thousand hours of piano (played since childhood)
11. Dean's list for 4 semesters, several medals from athletics competitions

My main concern is with my lack of overall clinical hours (including shadowing) and my late clinical volunteering gig. I mostly blame COVID for this, though at this point I'm not sure to what extent med schools see that as a cop-out excuse, as some of the blame does lie with me. I should have done something clinical in my first two years, instead of waiting until junior year to start something which unfortunately was when COVID began! Furthermore, my housing situation got compromised from COVID so I couldn't meet a lot of the 6-12 month commitments for many volunteering opportunities because I had no idea where I would be in six months (another excuse--just trying to vent some frustration).

In light of this information, would you suggest I still try to apply this cycle? I have the impression that at least for MD/PhD, clinical experience holds less weight than in MD admissions, though it is still important. My MCAT is expiring after this cycle, and the 520 is a pretty difficult bar to match/surpass if I retake it. I'm also taking 2 gap years already, and would rather avoid taking more, since MD/PhD training is long enough and I'd rather not delay. Also, although my hours are lacking, I've found my clinical experiences to be very affirming of my desire to practice medicine which I'm hoping I can write about in a compelling way.

If so, would I be competitive for T20s, or should I aim for mostly T50s/mid-lower tiers? Here is my current school list, which is quite top-heavy (am I shooting myself in the foot with this list?). I'd like some advice on which schools to trim off, if possible.
1. Albert Einstein
2. Baylor
3. Columbia
4. Duke
5. Emory
6. Harvard-MIT
7. Johns Hopkins
8. Mayo Clinic
9. Mount Sinai
10. Northwestern
11. NYU
12. OHSU
13. Stanford
14. Cornell/Tri-I
15. UC Irvine
16. UCLA-Caltech
17. UCSD
18. UCSF
19. UNC Chapel Hill
20. UChicago
21. University of Colorado-Denver
22. U Iowa
23. UMD
24. UMass
25. UMich
26. UPenn
27. Pitt-CMU
28. URochester
29. UVA
30. UWash
31. UTSW
32. Vanderbilt
33. WashU
34. Yale

Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you!!

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

you have no clinical and little that suggests you want to deal with moldy sick poor people

for phd w or w/o the md you need to think of it as applying to a lab/program in whatever field you're interested in not ooooooooh top 20s which makes me think you dont have any idea what youre getting into on either side of the slash.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

If you want PhD, go for it (take the GRE if needed... just don't bomb it). If you want MD+PhD, get more clinical hours and skip to the next cycle when you have it. You have 500 hours of non-clinical community service with the unhoused community... can you describe?

It's understandable but futile to blame COVID for your lack of gaining experience. We want to know how you had to adjust and will reward those who found a way to succeed (that's a different debate). There will be some consideration, but from what I can tell, the basic expectations still are the basics.

 

[candbgirl]

There isn’t one thing in your grid that says you even want to be a physician. Your activities scream Ph.D and not medicine. It’s fine for you to blame Covid but be aware your peers applying at the same time will have hundreds of hours of clinical experiences despite Covid. So either accumulate 200+ hours of clinical experiences or put off applying. Do not apply to medical school without clinical experiences.
What do your 500 hours of nonclinical volunteering serving the unhoused in your community involve ?
Ask the oncologist to ask a colleague to let you shadow, especially a primary care doc.
Frankly, you seem to have made time for everything you are interested in and everything you want to do. The only area you haven’t put any focus on is the clinical area.
Before you decide to retake the MCAT, make sure you really want to be a doctor. @Mr.Smile12 might be right(usually is). Maybe the GRE is what you should take.
Good luck in whatever path you decide to follow.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I mostly agree with the advice you're being given above. You would clearly be in a stronger position with more clinical exposure.

That said, I also hear what you're saying about your MCAT expiring. Also, MD/PhD is a funny beast because they're evaluating you on your research prowess as much as your ability to be a good doctor.

So, my real question is this--why do you want to be a PHYSICIAN SCIENTIST? If your passion is for research, then why do you need an MD? Conversely, if you really just want to be a doctor, then why did you spend all of your time doing research instead of interacting with people? If you can actually write a compelling story about how you're going to carve out a career as a translational researcher who both runs a lab and takes care of patients (ideally if the research you're currently doing supports that story)... then I think you may have a case. Otherwise, while I would probably go ahead and just apply anyways since your MCAT is expiring, you really need to cram in as many hours as humanly possible between now and when you submit, and you need to significantly lower your expectations because you're not going to get into a "top anything" school with the amount of clinical exposure you currently have.