WAMC / School List - Nontraditional, 3.85/528, Weak Research

[Contradition]

1. cGPA 3.85 overall (3.74 in university, 4.0 in postbacc - there was also an upward trend while in university); sGPA 4.0
2. MCAT: 528
3. California
4. White, male (ORM)
5. Undergrad: California state school (CSU, not UC) where I earned a Bachelor's in Philosophy. Postbacc: local Community Colleges
6. Clinical experience: Paid: Outpatient oncology medical scribe at a major oncology center, July 2023 - present. About 2,000 hours so far. Volunteer clinical experience: emergency department volunteer, about 200 hours, October 2023 - January 2025.
7. Research experience: About 100 hours working with a team composing a review article as the primary author. Not primary research so I don't fully trust the strength of this for schools that care about research but hopefully this will be submitted soon and at listable in some way as productivity even if it's not officially published by the time of primary apps.
8. Shadowing: Roughly 100 hours in palliative medicine, 11/2024 to present; roughly 25 hours in PM&R, 1/2025 to present. Hopefully more specialties to be added before applying but who knows.
9. Non-clinical volunteering: Literacy volunteering, 10/2023 to present. About 200 hours so far. This would be one of my "most meaningful" on the list, together with the scribing. Additional tutoring for homeless students (K-12), 11/2024 to present, about 40 hours so far - also going to be "most meaningful." I also will be starting hospice volunteering very soon, which seems to me more non-clinical and (unless there's a strong reason to categorize as clinical volunteering) I would place in this section as well.
10. Other extra-curricular activities: Science tutoring at the community college where I did most of my postbacc, 1/2023 to present. Approximately 500 hours. This includes 4 semesters thus far as an embedded tutor which involves leadership - basically a TA who doesn't do grading or other assessment.
11. Relevant honors or awards: President's list several semesters in undergrad; graduated cum laude; honors in my major (Philosophy) after composing an honors thesis Senior year.
12. Letters: 1 MD and 1 DO letter from my scribing and shadowing at the oncology center where I work. 1 science letter from my organic chemistry professor, for whom I have also been an embedded tutor as above. 1 science letter from a biology professor I've taken multiple courses with. Of note I do not have a letter yet from my original major, Philosophy, or anything non-science as I haven't taken a non-science class or interacted with the professors from my major in about 5 years, since I originally graduated. How beneficial would it be to obtain a letter from one?

I am a nontraditional student who originally majored in Philosophy and after the COVID-19 pandemic pivoted to try to go down a premedical route, but was unfortunately slower than I might have been - but now I have the science courses I need and a 528 MCAT under my belt and I want to apply this cycle. WAMC with the following school list? Should I add or remove any schools? I don't have any particular insights and am mainly going by admit.org's list.
I worry that I'm weak on the research front in particular but have been told (including here) that this may be overlooked to a degree due to my nontraditional status - I really have had a difficult time finding any as I didn't start trying until changing career paths, after which point I was already graduated and no longer affiliated with a university that could help with this sort of thing.

School list:
1. UCSF
2. University of Chicago
3. Columbia
4. Cornell
5. NYU Grossman
6. Yale
7. Mayo (Rochester)
8. Washington University (St. Louis)
9. Harvard
10. Johns Hopkins
11. Stanford
12. University of Minnesota
13. Penn
14. UCLA
15. Brown
16. UCSD
17. USC
18. Northwestern
19. Pitt
20. Mount Sinai
21. Case Western Reserve
22. University of Colorado
23. University of Virginia
24. University of Rochester
25. Hofstra
26. University of Arizona (Phoenix)
27. University of Cincinnati
28. Boston University
29. Emory
30. University of Michigan
31. UCI
32. Albert Einstein
33. Dartmouth
34. Tufts
35. Jefferson (Kimmel)
36. Drexel
37. Eastern Virginia
38. Quinnipiac
39. Hackensack Meridian
40. Virginia Commonwealth
41. Temple
42. Rosalind Franklin
43. University of Iowa
44. USF Morsani
45. University of Miami
46. Vanderbilt
47. Duke
48. New York Medical College

Thanks!

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[Mr.Smile12]

Previously

C

Thread 'WAMC Next Year?'

May 30, 2024

Hello. If anyone can help advise, I am interested in knowing what my chances are for MD admission (and school list as well if possible) for applying next year.

Currently:

cGPA 3.838; sGPA 4.00

MCAT 528 (one attempt, 4/2024)

ORM (White, male)

Nontraditional unimpressive undergraduate background: 4 year BA in Philosophy from a California State University school (a highly-ranked one within that system for what it's worth, but still looked down on compared to UC as far as I know) with no non-GE science courses at that time; GPA at graduation 3.747 with strong upward trend. Graduated 2020...

• Contradition
• nontradditional wamc
• Replies: 4
• Forum: What Are My Chances? WAMC Medical

It's going to boil down to why medicine is your purpose and what you expect from medical schools to shape you into the physician you want to be. Schools need to recruit you, so you must have a must-have and must-avoid set of criteria before you get bombarded with any admissions marketing. Do you expect to leverage your philosophy background?

The Meaning of Life: Finding Insights in the Humanities - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

 

[Faha]

Some of the schools on your list will "yield protect" with your stats. 48 schools is far too many to apply to. I suggest these schools from your list:
1. UCSF
2. University of Chicago
3. Columbia
4. Cornell
5. NYU Grossman
6. Yale
7. Mayo (Rochester)
8. Washington University (St. Louis)
9. Harvard
10. Johns Hopkins
11. Stanford
13. Penn
14. UCLA
15. Brown
16. UCSD
17. USC
18. Northwestern
19. Pitt
20. Mount Sinai
21. Case Western Reserve
22. University of Colorado
23. University of Virginia
24. University of Rochester
25. Hofstra
27. University of Cincinnati
28. Boston University
29. Emory
30. University of Michigan
31. UCI
32. Albert Einstein
33. Dartmouth
34. Tufts
43. University of Iowa
44. USF Morsani
45. University of Miami
46. Vanderbilt
47. Duke

 

[Contradition]

Previously

C

Thread 'WAMC Next Year?'

May 30, 2024

Hello. If anyone can help advise, I am interested in knowing what my chances are for MD admission (and school list as well if possible) for applying next year.

Currently:

cGPA 3.838; sGPA 4.00

MCAT 528 (one attempt, 4/2024)

ORM (White, male)

Nontraditional unimpressive undergraduate background: 4 year BA in Philosophy from a California State University school (a highly-ranked one within that system for what it's worth, but still looked down on compared to UC as far as I know) with no non-GE science courses at that time; GPA at graduation 3.747 with strong upward trend. Graduated 2020...

• Contradition
• nontradditional wamc
• Replies: 4
• Forum: What Are My Chances? WAMC Medical

It's going to boil down to why medicine is your purpose and what you expect from medical schools to shape you into the physician you want to be. Schools need to recruit you, so you must have a must-have and must-avoid set of criteria before you get bombarded with any admissions marketing. Do you expect to leverage your philosophy background?

The Meaning of Life: Finding Insights in the Humanities - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

I certainly hope they will be recruiting me but for now I want to operate to minimize any chance of having to reapply. I do expect to leverage my Philosophy background in a few ways including as a matter of diversity and showing a broad background/range of interests. On the other hand, it doesn't play a strong role in my reason for switching to medicine. My main focus (including my honors thesis) was more on epistemology and the philosophy of language. Usually when I bring up my Philosophy background with medical people they assume it was all ethics. I'm not really sure how to present it on applications, to be honest.

 

[Contradition]

Some of the schools on your list will "yield protect" with your stats. 48 schools is far too many to apply to. I suggest these schools from your list:
1. UCSF
2. University of Chicago
3. Columbia
4. Cornell
5. NYU Grossman
6. Yale
7. Mayo (Rochester)
8. Washington University (St. Louis)
9. Harvard
10. Johns Hopkins
11. Stanford
13. Penn
14. UCLA
15. Brown
16. UCSD
17. USC
18. Northwestern
19. Pitt
20. Mount Sinai
21. Case Western Reserve
22. University of Colorado
23. University of Virginia
24. University of Rochester
25. Hofstra
27. University of Cincinnati
28. Boston University
29. Emory
30. University of Michigan
31. UCI
32. Albert Einstein
33. Dartmouth
34. Tufts
43. University of Iowa
44. USF Morsani
45. University of Miami
46. Vanderbilt
47. Duke

Thank you! I appreciate the guidance. Yield protection is definitely a concern for me given that my application is a bit lopsided (academically good, extracurriculars middling to weak especially in research). Do you think that this list is well-rounded in the sense of not being too top-heavy on research-focused schools that might reject me for that reason?

I'm also curious about one school on the list - why do you recommend removing the University of Minnesota? I wouldn't have expected yield protection from them. Is it too OOS-unfriendly?

 

[Faha]

Thank you! I appreciate the guidance. Yield protection is definitely a concern for me given that my application is a bit lopsided (academically good, extracurriculars middling to weak especially in research). Do you think that this list is well-rounded in the sense of not being too top-heavy on research-focused schools that might reject me for that reason?

I'm also curious about one school on the list - why do you recommend removing the University of Minnesota? I wouldn't have expected yield protection from them. Is it too OOS-unfriendly?

Minnesota admits many of its nonresidents from North Dakota and Wisconsin and also knows that a CA resident with a MCAT of 528 will go elsewhere.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I certainly hope they will be recruiting me but for now I want to operate to minimize any chance of having to reapply. I do expect to leverage my Philosophy background in a few ways including as a matter of diversity and showing a broad background/range of interests. On the other hand, it doesn't play a strong role in my reason for switching to medicine. My main focus (including my honors thesis) was more on epistemology and the philosophy of language. Usually when I bring up my Philosophy background with medical people they assume it was all ethics. I'm not really sure how to present it on applications, to be honest.

The top brand schools don't need to recruit you. They know you'll spend your money on them, and I'm sure they will have their stories about how they have rejected 4.0/528 applications before. I always advise to "MAKE them recruit you," implying you must show you're h-o-t-t-o-g-o. Show them you are genuinely interested (or "Ivy-plus" material if we are going to use dating proxy parlance). I'm sure there will be a natural question of why you are switching from philosophy to medicine... thus the question how you want to leverage your previous education and training as a physician. From your answer, you already know the assumptions they'll have so how would you answer, "why would anyone want to study epistemology?" 🙂 Know why they think you would be a great fit so you can echo that rationale in your application.