Want advice from MD, choose between free school vs. dream school

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LoniNight

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I am in a lucky spot where I can make a decision between two schools and although I know that the ultimate decision rests on my own priorities and decisions for my happiness, I wanted to hear from someone who has already gone through medical school, residency, and debt experiences to let me know how much I should rank my priorities based on the cost of school.

I can either go to U of I, where I've been assigned to a less than ideal location due to being assigned to a more rural campus (I am a city person). But I can go with free tuition, have a good living stipend, and an additional 10,000 a year scholarship as well that hopefully I can apply towards something other than tuition.

or to OSU, where I've fallen in love with the more forward thinking curriculum, people seem happier, there are awesome electives. I think I would meet people who have more similar values as myself here. The tuition wouldn't be bad, I would get in state tuition and at the most be paying 20,000 a year (due to other grants) and still get a living stipend to cover rent and groceries.

So I see it as a 120,000 monetary loss of going to OSU over U of I. (80,000 for tuition and 40,000 for forsaken scholarship).

If it was just for myself, I would probably be able to handle 80,000 in debt. But I have an adult dependent to send money to on a monthly basis and am also responsible for other family member's retirement and my resources have been a source of savings/backup for the family.

Is it plausible to take out loans in order to support other family members during medical school?

Also, how much does having debt after school effect your standard of living?

I am thinking that not having debt (going to U of I) would really give me a lot of freedom to do what I want after residency. But since most people work for a several years after graduation perhaps a debt of about 80,000 is more manageable?

I am open to hearing anyone's opinion, it will help me think!

Sorry for such a long and detailed post! I just need someone who knows what they're talking about's opinions 🙂
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I don't attend OSU but I heard that there are a few people that are unhappy with their curriculum. The school is overhauling the curriculum and they have this thing called independent study pathway which they describe on their website as using "highly structured objectives, resource guides, web and computer based materials to learn on your own". What that translated to for this year's class is "we posted a bunch of old lecture materials and set up the schedule so that you will need to learn 6 hours of lecture material a day. So if you're doing that pathway, you're watching lectures by yourself (from a few years ago) and you'll be hard pressed to keep up at their pace.
 
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go to the free school no question. the only reason to go to a pay school would be to go to a school thats at the top of the tier since the match takes that into account. Otherwise, go free.
 
LoniNight said:
I am in a lucky spot where I can make a decision between two schools and although I know that the ultimate decision rests on my own priorities and decisions for my happiness, I wanted to hear from someone who has already gone through medical school, residency, and debt experiences to let me know how much I should rank my priorities based on the cost of school.

I can either go to U of I, where I've been assigned to a less than ideal location due to being assigned to a more rural campus (I am a city person). But I can go with free tuition, have a good living stipend, and an additional 10,000 a year scholarship as well that hopefully I can apply towards something other than tuition.

or to OSU, where I've fallen in love with the more forward thinking curriculum, people seem happier, there are awesome electives. I think I would meet people who have more similar values as myself here. The tuition wouldn't be bad, I would get in state tuition and at the most be paying 20,000 a year (due to other grants) and still get a living stipend to cover rent and groceries.

So I see it as a 120,000 monetary loss of going to OSU over U of I. (80,000 for tuition and 40,000 for forsaken scholarship).

If it was just for myself, I would probably be able to handle 80,000 in debt. But I have an adult dependent to send money to on a monthly basis and am also responsible for other family member's retirement and my resources have been a source of savings/backup for the family.

Is it plausible to take out loans in order to support other family members during medical school?

Also, how much does having debt after school effect your standard of living?

I am thinking that not having debt (going to U of I) would really give me a lot of freedom to do what I want after residency. But since most people work for a several years after graduation perhaps a debt of about 80,000 is more manageable?

I am open to hearing anyone's opinion, it will help me think!

Sorry for such a long and detailed post! I just need someone who knows what they're talking about's opinions 🙂
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First, the difference in cost between the schools would be a bit more than $80,000. There is interest that accumulates and tuition goes up every year (mine went up 40% one year). However, you will still be in less debt than most graduates and they are able to pay their loans without too much trouble. During residency you can do forebearance so you won't have to make payments until after residency (you can still make payments, they're just not required). You can also make payments based on your income. Depending on where you end up your residency salary will provide a decent living or if you go some place with a higher cost of living you'll be scraping by. Free med school is something that shouldn't be given up lightly.

However, at the end of the day if you think living in some rural location will be a nightmare and you'll be miserable for 4 years it might be worth taking on the debt. It's something you'll have to decide. You'll be able to pay off your loans without much trouble. As far as curriculum goes, the preclinical years are pretty similar wherever you go. They teach the same material and your performance has more to do with your capabilities (ability to memorize a ton of info quickly) than your med school. You can always do away rotations during 4th year if there are electives you can't get at the free school.

You just have to decide how much you want to live in a city.
 
Med school goes too fast for you to enjoy the free-thinking atmosphere, most med schools teach toward step 1 as a bare minimum and then the PhDs teaching it love to throw in extra minutae, you will barely get much of a difference in education.

Seriously Med school goes way too fast for you to take some time to sit and enjoy where you are and you will be miserable and it won't be because of where you studied for 2 years (because you normally spend the last 2 years in rotations so who cares about campus at that point?).

You said it yourself you have a dependent and given free tuition + stipend which you can send home to take care of loved ones is better than paying tuition + more money for your living expenses and sending a stipiend is way more than 120k$. You are being way too conservative with your calculations and should really take the money because it doesn't matter that much in mid-tier schools.

This would be a different conversation about Ivy league schools not giving you a scholarship but a good school giving you one. Either way, think of debt as a shackle to your life.
 
I got on a friend of mine because she went to a medical school because they offered her "a scholarship." She choose it over a superior school because it cost a few bucks less. If they had offered her a free ride, I wouldn't have said a word. Go for FREE.
 
yehhhboiii said:
I don't attend OSU but I heard that there are a few people that are unhappy with their curriculum. The school is overhauling the curriculum and they have this thing called independent study pathway which they describe on their website as using "highly structured objectives, resource guides, web and computer based materials to learn on your own". What that translated to for this year's class is "we posted a bunch of old lecture materials and set up the schedule so that you will need to learn 6 hours of lecture material a day. So if you're doing that pathway, you're watching lectures by yourself (from a few years ago) and you'll be hard pressed to keep up at their pace.
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I do go to OSU and this is not how the curriculum has been set up. Just read the ample amounts of whining about curriculums on this board. The raw facts are that medical school is hard no matter where you go and some people are always going to be unhappy.
 
Screw the city. Do you have any idea how much fun you can buy with the money you'd save? Take the money.
 
Taking the scholarship is the safest and probably wisest decision. But ultimately this is up to you, its your life and it is a big decision.

I don't have experience myself with this but I have heard of people being able to communicate with the non-scholarship offering institution and explain that you would rather attend their school but the scholarship offer makes it hard to justify the extra expense. If the institution wants you enough they might be willing to make an offer to sweeten the deal and get you there.
 
I don't know how Columbus, OH counts as a city but Champaign, IL does not. Pretty similar places.
 
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If i were you, I'd take the scholarship. I think a lack of loans can make you more stress free and focus better on school work. Also please consider that if, however unlikely, that you fail out of med school, you are probably never going to be able to repay your loans.
 
Congrats on being in such an awesome situation. Sure wish I was! I think you would be CRAZY not to take the freedom of not having loans. It will make the next 20 years of your life completely different without that hanging over your head. Medical school, like anything else in your life, is what you make of it. I really think you should learn to love U of I!

Survivor DO
 
if location is bothering you, think of all the badass vacations/trips you can take to other places in the world with that money
 
There's no way you would end up with only $80,000 going to OSU. As one person already said, tuition will go up and the interest rates on loans are very expensive. Also, med school costs way more money than just the tuition. The board exams are expensive, the board prep classes are expensive, applying and interviewing to residency programs cost a lot of money, plus the hundreds of other little things they will ding you for out of pocket during school.

I go to an in-state school where the tuition is roughly $27,000/yr. I was actually pretty conservative and didn't take out the full loans I was eligible for living expenses. Now, as I'm graduating med school, I've taken somewhere close to $150,000 out in principle and have added another $12,000 or so in interest. I'll add on another $11,000 worth of interest every year of my residency. By the time I get done paying off my loans, I will have paid well over $300,000 back. I'm luckily going into what is currently a high paying field, but what if I had fallen in love with peds? There's no way I could feel good about going into peds where the attending salaries aren't much more than $100k. I just don't think I could cover my student loans and still provide a comfortable lifestyle for my family.
If you can go to med school for free you won't have any of those shackles. You could do whatever you want without all of the financial pressures i.e go into a primary care field, volunteer a good chunk of your time to a free/underserved clinic, take time off to get an MPH or do research.

Seriously, just take the money and run.
 
Thanks everyone for your responses! It is really helpful to see what is more important to people who are already experiencing medical school/post medical school life.

I am prioritizing the money more at this point as well, to the person who talked about taking awesome vacations...yes, I would love to travel, and it would also be cool to be able to afford a car and take tiny road trips or something to loosen up during those 4 years. Memorization isn't my strong point so I'm sure it'll be four years full of studying anyhow.

I am also on the wait list for some top tier schools and wondering if anyone thinks its worth it to write LOI's for those schools. I can't deny that being able to go to one of those schools would be awesome, but what is it that would really make it worth it as opposed to free school? I don't want to write a LOI if I don't intend to attend if I get off waitlist!!

Thanks again! These responses have been great in helping me think and prioritize while in the midst of trying to finish up my bachelors and many other things!!
 
Wordead said:
I don't know how Columbus, OH counts as a city but Champaign, IL does not. Pretty similar places.
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Yeah, I've heard this too. Columbus is much like a college town, but I just feel like at least there are other things going on...not that it would matter to a med student that much I guess. XD
 
basal said:
There's no way you would end up with only $80,000 going to OSU. As one person already said, tuition will go up and the interest rates on loans are very expensive. Also, med school costs way more money than just the tuition. The board exams are expensive, the board prep classes are expensive, applying and interviewing to residency programs cost a lot of money, plus the hundreds of other little things they will ding you for out of pocket during school.

I go to an in-state school where the tuition is roughly $27,000/yr. I was actually pretty conservative and didn't take out the full loans I was eligible for living expenses. Now, as I'm graduating med school, I've taken somewhere close to $150,000 out in principle and have added another $12,000 or so in interest. I'll add on another $11,000 worth of interest every year of my residency. By the time I get done paying off my loans, I will have paid well over $300,000 back. I'm luckily going into what is currently a high paying field, but what if I had fallen in love with peds? There's no way I could feel good about going into peds where the attending salaries aren't much more than $100k. I just don't think I could cover my student loans and still provide a comfortable lifestyle for my family.
If you can go to med school for free you won't have any of those shackles. You could do whatever you want without all of the financial pressures i.e go into a primary care field, volunteer a good chunk of your time to a free/underserved clinic, take time off to get an MPH or do research.

Seriously, just take the money and run.
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Wow! thanks for the detailed reply! I don't know much about money management so this is very helpful. Also, great points about choosing something that you'll love.
 
survivordo said:
Congrats on being in such an awesome situation. Sure wish I was! I think you would be CRAZY not to take the freedom of not having loans. It will make the next 20 years of your life completely different without that hanging over your head. Medical school, like anything else in your life, is what you make of it. I really think you should learn to love U of I!

Survivor DO
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hmmm...yes...20 years. Thanks for that perspective.
 
Pic said:
Med school goes too fast for you to enjoy the free-thinking atmosphere, most med schools teach toward step 1 as a bare minimum and then the PhDs teaching it love to throw in extra minutae, you will barely get much of a difference in education.

Seriously Med school goes way too fast for you to take some time to sit and enjoy where you are and you will be miserable and it won't be because of where you studied for 2 years (because you normally spend the last 2 years in rotations so who cares about campus at that point?).

You said it yourself you have a dependent and given free tuition + stipend which you can send home to take care of loved ones is better than paying tuition + more money for your living expenses and sending a stipiend is way more than 120k$. You are being way too conservative with your calculations and should really take the money because it doesn't matter that much in mid-tier schools.

This would be a different conversation about Ivy league schools not giving you a scholarship but a good school giving you one. Either way, think of debt as a shackle to your life.
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Good points, I have a friend at a ranked 1-5 school and all they do is complain about how the professors like to rant about their own research during class. Medical school is what you make of it. $$$$$$$$$ all the wayyyssss!
 
[youtube=-WCFUGCOLLU]Go on...[/youtube]
 
Free is Free.

If you really want to go to an ivy/top 10 school then maybe hold out for interviews from them.

I wouldn't pick OSU with tuition over U of I without tuition, ever.
 
LoniNight said:
Yeah, I've heard this too. Columbus is much like a college town, but I just feel like at least there are other things going on...not that it would matter to a med student that much I guess. XD
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No, don't get me wrong, it's important. Very important. Let me tell you, it sucks a hard one when it's post-exam time and you want to blow off steam and for 100 miles there's just ****ty hole bars and red lobsters serving bud light and playing lil wayne.

But the difference between those 2 cities is not great. Champaign might even have the edge in some areas, from what I've seen when I visited. Certainly not a difference worth 80-120K.
 
yehhhboiii said:
I don't attend OSU but I heard that there are a few people that are unhappy with their curriculum. The school is overhauling the curriculum and they have this thing called independent study pathway which they describe on their website as using "highly structured objectives, resource guides, web and computer based materials to learn on your own". What that translated to for this year's class is "we posted a bunch of old lecture materials and set up the schedule so that you will need to learn 6 hours of lecture material a day. So if you're doing that pathway, you're watching lectures by yourself (from a few years ago) and you'll be hard pressed to keep up at their pace.
Click to expand...

Just to give an alternate curriculum viewpoint, these are some excerpts that were posted by a current MS1. Personally, I've heard great things about the curriculum. They say it makes you work way harder than the old one, but they are expecting people to be really well prepared for Step 1-also, they are very open to student feedback. Also, I'm pretty sure independent pathway was in the old curriculum. Now students do LSI, they have the choice, self study, attend lecture, or access e-modules (for the more independent learners). I guess we'll see when Step scores come back next year for sure.
People who value fee time or thrive with more free time would probably hate this curriculum though. People that want directed Step 1 preparatory classes will probably like it.

Quotes from current students: ...."It's an effective curriculum with an incredible amount of potential (that can be reached with a few tweaks) that is surprisingly open to modification based on student input.
.... LSI, at its best, is better than the historical medical school curriculum. There has been a ton of work put into the ideology of LSI, and the most important components are as follows:

1. Pertinent anatomy should be integrated through with the discussions of clinical disorders. This is a goal that makes a ton of sense to me. I want to learn Neuroanatomy when I'm studying Neurological disorders, not during a 12 week course at the beginning of my first year. Current second year medical students (on the old curriculum) tell us nowadays about how much anatomy they've been forced to forget because of preparation for the more recent blocks. ...[truncated]

2. Medical students should develop strong patient skills before their clerkship years. This is more of a debatable point....[rtuncated]

3. E-modules are better for student education. Absolutely, they are. The best professors that do e-modules create short length (20 minute) modules that are concise, detailed, and thorough. A good e-module is always better than a good lecture. However, a bad e-module is worse than a bad lecture.... if all e-modules are made competently (which will be the case for you guys next year, I'm sure), they are a much better option than lecture.

4. Medical students should be able to perform all the duties and tasks of an MD before entering the Med 3 year....[truncated] [In reference to understanding admin burden etc, not actually knowing what to do]

5. Maybe this is not a stated goal of LSI, but I'll be honest. LSI is extremely tough. All the integration and the clinical exposure, along with keeping up with learning the material for Step 1 necessitates a tougher experience. I've never worked this hard in my academic life, and even the previous class comments on how much less free time we have. LSI is thorough, and we're all learning a lot (and I think our board scores will show it). But it really is a beast of a curriculum.
 
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impact2d said:
4. Medical students should be able to perform all the duties and tasks of an MD before entering the Med 3 year....[truncated]

.
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There has to be more to that quote, cause otherwise that is ridiculous. Are they going to have you placing central lines, completing discharge summaries, and calling family with updates, and calling specialists to remind them to see your patients, all before M3?

I'm more on-board with an essentially 'self-study/online module' system rather than PBL.
 
OP, I would strongly consider taking the free money. This is from someone who also loved OSU, and thinks they are doing outstanding things.
Also, I personally thought columbus was a pretty interesting city. Short north has enough to do for med students, the Buckeye games are a huge event in football and basketball season, there is no shortage of late night non-chain places to blow off steam. They have chipotle, which gives them like 10000 points in my book lol. I don't know anything about the other city.

I don't see how the cities are similar with Columbus having almost 10 times the population but maybe others have been to both places and know better. Either way, I don't think a city with more going on is worth the debt. Also, OSU charges more for year 3 and 4, not sure if you noticed this. I loved the school and hate to recommend against it, but for a free ride-I'm pretty sure any doc I know would say take the free ride, even if it were against a top 10. (Two doctors I know personally said if they could do it over again they would have gone to state school over the "prestigious" private school),

This is why despite how much I loved OSU, I am having a hard time justifying choosing it over more affordable options (not a full ride like you but scholarships none the less). The docs I ask tell me to go to the cheaper school, and then rock the boards and go where I want for residency.
 
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evilbooyaa said:
There has to be more to that quote, cause otherwise that is ridiculous. Are they going to have you placing central lines, completing discharge summaries, and calling family with updates, and calling specialists to remind them to see your patients, all before M3?

I'm more on-board with an essentially 'self-study/online module' system rather than PBL.
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I believe the student meant, should be primed to perform rather than able to perform. He alluded to exposure to admin burden and such.
 
impact2d said:
I believe the student meant, should be primed to perform rather than able to perform. He alluded to exposure to admin burden and such.
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Admin burden?

Does that mean they should be able to manage a census, ICD-9 codes for billing, what needs to be done in order to bill for certain codes? I mean, kudos if they can get all that down and still prepare people for Step 1, but as a MS3 I haven't had to really do the 2 latter things I posted above. And managing a census is minor, basically just learning when it is appropriate to D/C patients.
 
I read that post I think the student meant mentorship with attendings

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Take the money! Seriously, having 80,000k to spend during your 4 years mean so much!!
 
As a fourth year about to graduate and evaluating my loans now, it's scary. Take the free school. You forget too that interest will accrue on those loans, and it gathers quickly. You can make a good experience anywhere. I WISH I was graduating with now debt. You could really be helping out your family much more with no loan payments during residency and down the road.
 
Attend the "free" medical school. You're very fortunate to be in that predicament. They're practically paying YOU to attend their program! Being debt-free is a really nice feeling.
 
Thanks everyone for your answers!

I really needed to hear from graduates and med students what meant the most to them down the road, and ya'll delivered!!! Thanks for looking out for my well being, the answers sure puts everything in perspective.

I'm glad I posted here because now I am definitely going to take the free school unless my finaid package from OSU matches up, and I feel a lot more happy about myself for it. hehe.
 
Another vote for the free school.

I know OSU might make you happy, but an extra $120K would also make you happy. Also when it comes to debt you should familiarize yourself with the concept of interest. It makes $120K no longer just $120K.
 
Another question though:

Some people posted that if it was between free school vs an ivy it would be possibly worth it.

What would make it worth it? The name? The research? Resources? Match list?

I have some top tier waitlists (I comfort myself by telling myself that I subconsciously botched the interviews in favor of cheaper schools XD) and was wondering if its worth it to stay on and extend the twilight zone waiting period of the application cycle.

Thanks in advance!
 
I had to make a similar decision. I took the money.

The only time I wouldn't is if one location was amazing and the other was terrible.

Doesn't apply here.

Money.
 
Take the money and never look back.
 
There is no question here. Listen to above advice.
 
LoniNight said:
Another question though:

Some people posted that if it was between free school vs an ivy it would be possibly worth it.

What would make it worth it? The name? The research? Resources? Match list?

I have some top tier waitlists (I comfort myself by telling myself that I subconsciously botched the interviews in favor of cheaper schools XD) and was wondering if its worth it to stay on and extend the twilight zone waiting period of the application cycle.

Thanks in advance!
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Honestly, in my opinion there isn't much that would make it worth it for me. If you're really into research (I'm not) it might be worth it but even at my no name school we have some amazing opportunities if you put in a little effort.

Doing well on the Step exams and on clinical rotations has more to do with your abilities and not the school. I chose my med school because it is known for it's clinical opportunities. Despite being a student I was allowed to take ownership of my patients, do procedures, and felt like a productive member of the care team for most of my rotations. This background will help me the most in residency, not my board score or my med school's reputation. Having connections at a big name school might help but how you do in the match is mostly on you. From what I've heard so far, my class (I'm a M4 and we just found out if we matched) has done pretty well matching folks into competitive specialties even if we are just a state school.

Looking at match lists won't tell you much. It doesn't take into account that even people with great board scores want to go into less competitive specialties and at this stage you have no idea which programs are more competitive for each field. For example, in EM the program at Yale isn't as highly regarded as Carolinas (who has even heard of Carolinas). The only thing I can possibly think of is if someone really wants to go into plastic surgery, rad/onc, etc but the school focuses on primary care and no one has matched in those fields from the school every. Maybe it's because no one has wanted to go into those fields or because the school doesn't have the connections/advising to match people in those fields. It's hard to say.
 
Take the money- anywhere in the US you will learn basically the same stuff with all the accreditation requirements. Plus 3rd year is similar anywhere and during 4th year you can do some fun/unique electives as aways. I am in a more rural area for school and honestly I didn't do much but study and when I wanted to relax I was fine to go to a movie, go out to dinner with friends, or relax by the pool at my apartment.

It isn't a huge deal and you don't have to stay at your school for summers (I went to a bigger city and did research at a bigger school through connections I had).
 
I have a tiny bit to add to all the many thoughtful answers already.

You might also look at it from this analytical perspective. We always make decisions in life based on less than 100% complete and 100% accurate information.

1. Think about what you really know with certainty regarding the difference between costs at choice A vs choice B.
2. Now think about what you really know with certainty regarding the difference between lifestyle and curriculum at choice A vs choice B.

I would venture to guess that #1 is probably more clear cut than #2. Imagine if you somehow end up wrong about #2 and the non-financial aspects of U of I are actually superior to OSU. How terrible would it be to be paying so much more for an inferior experience? Suppose the OSU experience turns out better than the U of I experience. Is it really so much better that it's worth all that lost money?

The financial aspects compound. The more debt you are in, the more you will have to take that into account when choosing specialty, residency and first job. It can handcuff you.

Speaking from experience, having no or minimal debt after residency/fellowship allows you options such as gambling to start your own practice. Imagine if you had so much financial pressure that you are forced to sign up to be exploited by a practice that offers you a tasty signing bonus but which relegates you to many years of misery.

In any case, good luck!
 
I took the free route and I couldn't be happier. Do what I did.

Ps, my med school was awesome, so it was a no brainier, either way, go to med school for free.
 
LoniNight said:
Another question though:

Some people posted that if it was between free school vs an ivy it would be possibly worth it.

What would make it worth it? The name? The research? Resources? Match list?

I have some top tier waitlists (I comfort myself by telling myself that I subconsciously botched the interviews in favor of cheaper schools XD) and was wondering if its worth it to stay on and extend the twilight zone waiting period of the application cycle.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

If it was a top 5 school.... only top 5 and you have research experience or desperately want to research and you want to match into a top 3 medical specialty like derm or plastics. Other than that, no. Definitely not to 10 or top 20 IMO. Only top 5.

I wouldn't even pay more for the top 5.

It's the same degree. Matching into a specialty is more person dependent than school dependent.

Staying on a waitlist is fine. It doesn't hurt you. Staying on a waitlist helped me get more money because the cheaper school saw I got into a "better" school.
 
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