Wanted: your views on the grad school experience

[RayneeDeigh]

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While I was falling asleep last night I was thinking about something and it struck me that it would make a good thread. Clearly this means I spend too much time on here.

I'm curious to know what you guys have found to be a) the best thing about grad school and b) the hardest thing about it.

I thought it would be a cool thread for people applying to read (and for us bitter grad students to exchange experiences).

And for those applying... what are you most worried about when you get in, and what are you most looking forward to?

Okay, go! (and thanks in advance for giving me something to read since I'm sick in bed tonight and bored)

 

[spillsomepaint]

great thread topic RD!

since I'm am in the pool of people who are applying now, I'm going to say that that I feel the most trepidation about leaving everything I am familiar with. I know this is very general, but I've been pretty fortunate in that when I moved out of my rents house to a university 2 hors away, I moved in with my best friend, and a year later, my twin sister as well. (oh and my younger brother just started college and lives two blocks down, with my boyfriend across the street), so I am nervous about leaving my little bubble of comfort zone.
I'm also nervous about adjusting to the work load/time constraints. Hence, why I got a PDA now.

that said, I am really excited about getting into grad school, and being around people who are (hopefully) as motivated by psychology as I am.

 

[Ollie123]

Best thing(s):
Freedom to do what you want. Undergrad is still very much a hand-holding compared to grad school. As long as you're doing things well, there are basically no limits on what professors are willing to let you do. That being said, you also have to seek things out because there isn't as many already existing systems in place for you to join into - grad school is very much about creating your own opportunities.

That, and the work is meaningful. At long last, I actually WANT to do things well because I feel like it serves a purpose beyond getting good grades. Clients are real people, classes are actually useful and help develop useful skills, and I basically get to start developing my own research program.

I also especially like that nuances of grades/GPA don't matter anymore. This means that instead of the usual gaming of the system like almost everyone does in undergrad (e.g. pick the topic that's easiest to get an A on instead of the one that you will learn the most from), I can pick a topic knowing I'm likely to get a B because of it, and not care.

Hardest thing:
For me, its been on the social side of things. I'm not terribly close to my family, but I left behind a VERY tight knit group of friends and a girlfriend of 3 years, and its been difficult. Its starting to improve here, but despite being an extrovert, I also tend to take awhile to warm up to people. Everything else (classes, research, etc.) has come pretty naturally to me and hasn't been bad at all.

 

[irish80122]

The best thing about grad school for me so far are all of the opportunities. I am working with amazingly bright individuals and have a ton of opportunities to do whatever research that I want. It is awesome!

The worst thing is the grading in the class that I teach. I have to grade 60 assignments per student and have 117 students every semester...it gets to be a bit much. Also, though I am used to it now, I used to be strongly opposed to professors who would assign more reading then they knew we could do. I understand now that we have to learn what we need to read and read that, and that is an important skill to learn, but it drove me nuts because I used to succeed because I would read EVERYTHING!

Overall, though, I LOVE grad school and my program. It is a ton of work, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Best: I get to do what I love, and I love what I do. I looked into other avenues (I/O, Medicine, MBA) and none allowed me what this route allows me. I have more flexibility now, and I appreciate the rigors to this point. I love being in academia and feeling like I can make a difference. Being surrounded by people who love this stuff too is great, since my friends would just roll their eyes when I'd talk about research.

Worst: I wish I knew then what I know now. I wish I had exposure to a few more things, but there is already not enough time in the day, so I have no idea how to fit it in....outside of adding more hours to the original 24. I think there should be more biologically and pharmacy as a basis, but again...what do you cut? I don't want it like med school, as that lacks so much of what makes this training worthwhile....but I think there is a convergence, and we need to be better informed to put ourselves in the best position.

I wish we were paid fair wages for the work we do, especially later on in the process. I think the internship pay is insulting (for the work that is done), and the process of post-doc being pre-licensure is outdated.

-t

 

[positivepsych]

I second T4C's sentiments:

BEST: I get to do whatever I want, and I love what I do. Despite being pretty busy, I have a lot of flexibility if I manage my time properly. I have zero debt, I get paid to go school, and I have lower pressure compared to my professional school friends (though just as much work).

WORST: Learned helplessness. We do way too much work, for way too long, to become treated like second-class citizens in the economy (both during grad school, and especially afterwards). It creates a kind of learned helplessness in grad students and clinicians because you're stuck in a system you can't change, so you take the punishment instead of doing something about it. It sucks to be a doctor, but treated like (and paid like) a master's level person, unless you have what it takes to make it on your own.

The best has to outweigh the worst to make it worthwhile. It does for me so far, hopefully that'll be the case once I'm done as well.

 

[Quynh2007]

ACADEMIC
i love my research!!! I LOVE DOING IT and exploration and learning. I don't exactly love being an RA (sometimes it is fun, but I know next to nothing about SPSS so it's been a crawl)

I agree on the grades and not worrying about it. If I get an A or a B, whatever. As long as I don't consistently get Cs (none this semester, I didn't even try in one class - physiology -- and got a B) who cares? not me 😛

I really like my classmates. They are doing cool research, and we help each other when we can for some classes.

I don't love having to figure things out for myself. Sometimes, I wish my advisor would just be like, to graduate you need to do XYZ, be a member of ABC, and etc.

SOCIAL

I like Nashville to a certain extent (things are a lot more accessible!), but I definitely miss the college atmosphere of Ithaca and my favorite restaurants and hang outs. I also miss free Planned Parenthood resources (it's too expensive here for PP to be an option for sexual/annual health care)

I'm really active with my sorority as an alum, and they have kept me sane. I don't have to worry about paperwork or event planning, but get to reap in their work. Plus, they made the transition here very smooth.

I love the large mall(s) here. Most are outlet stores for big/fashionable stores. My favorite (always ordered online because there had been none in NY) is Body Central. Very cute stuff for relatively cheap, especially when they have it on sale.

I have more time to watch some of my fav. shows - mainly Dexter this semester. So delicious!

The bad: I don't have a car (just a bike) which I don't mind because the farthest I usually ride is 1 miles. Still it sucks when it rains cuz then I can't go out (to go grocery shopping or CVSing)

Sales tax here is ridiculous 🙁 but I guess no income tax is okay...

oh yes, sure I won't have a snow white christmas, but i'll gladly exchange that for 50o weather. The weather is perfect, not too cold or too hot. And even if there is a whisper of ice/snow, everything shuts down, so I might actually in my 5 years here, may experience a snow day that I never got at my undergrad even though there we regularly get tons of snow each winter...

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Ah, Dexter was FANTASTIC this season as always. I can't wait to pick up the next book once it's in paperback.

This thread is really interesting to read so far. I figured I'd throw my own answers in (and follow Quynh's lead)

ACADEMIC

Best: I've really loved my assessment lectures. The prof is completely off his rocker but is also brilliant so I've learned TONS about the various tests and interview methods. Getting some knowledge that I can use in applied settings makes me feel like a grown up.

Worst: My lab has an attitude that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not uncommon for our advisor to email us a copy of an article someone from another university has published with negative (and very unprofessional) comments included. The lab in general tends to be pretty mean-spirited... it's the kind of atmosphere where you need very thick skin. I'm also not enjoying the "shut up and don't talk about anything that's wrong" vibe that's going around the department but I hear that's pretty standard in most programs anyway.

SOCIAL

BEST: One of my cohort members is an amazing person and she and I will likely be close friends for years and years and years to come. Without her I surely would have fallen to pieces this semester and it's a very give-and-take balanced friendship. It makes me think all the crap I've been through in my first semester was completely worth it. We remind each other frequently through emails and Hallmark cards that there are only 3.5 years left. Oh, plus I adopted a kitten who I love and adore (his name is Zimbardo). And I also love living alone... so I guess there's lots of good social stuff going on.

WORST: I kind of hate the city I'm living in. It's much smaller than I'm used to, people drive with dead deer in the back of their trucks, and I'm paying over $1000 a month for an apartment that downright sucks anyway. I'm looking to get out of my lease through legal means and move again in April.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Sales tax here is ridiculous 🙁 but I guess no income tax is okay...

What is it there? I'm used to paying 14% on everything so when I moved and it went to 11% I was all excited.

 

[char111]

Grad school was great in terms of opportunities; take the next step on my research in VR, teaching assistant, relief lecturer, guest lecturing, sitting on student and uni committees, putting into practice all that "knowledge".

there were also disappointments; the school teaching staff didn't "practice" psychology, bullying, the myth of elitism, an emphasis on grade not quality and learning or innovation, the lost student voice, crammed materials and attitudes resistant to change given my "whitespace" approach to learning support.

 

[psychwanabe]

Good thread RD.

Best: Learning, learning, learning more about what I love. I adore being completely submerged in the field of Psychology. Additionally, the *majority* of the Prof's at my school are insanely intelligent and really terrific people to boot. Finally, I love my cohort. We have bonded through the hell that was fall semester and we all pitched in to help each other out/cover each other's backs. It's fabulous.

Worst: I got so stressed during the semester that I thought I wouldn't make it. My New Year's resolution is simply to implement my knowledge of stress management and learn to cope better. Also, there was one Prof. who was a complete and total jerk. This person had favorites, and it became clear when it wasn't you. Also, while this Prof was a certain orientation but *said* the class would be taught in a balanced way, it was not. Therefore I learned about things from a very slanted perspective and heard the other orientations ridiculed consistently. That was frustrating.

 

[blindblonde]

Best: Getting along with a small group of other people who worked as hard as you did in undergrad to get where you are in grad school. The nine first year students in my program are very close, as we all have the same classes and spend a lot of time together. Also, I love doing research!! Although it is not clinical research (personality research using palm pilots in experience sampling methodology), I still find it interesting and fun. One last and awesome perk for me is having my own office. 😀

Worst: I'm in a two-year masters program and will have to reapply next year. Blah. As such, I still have to worry about grades, although I know grades are not as important. It is quite a conflict to be in. It is hard to stomach getting a C on a test after studying your butt off for it, but grad school is supposed to be hard. I know that as long as I maintain a decent GPA (by decent i mean above a 3.0), I'll be okay. But it is difficult to work all the time with no end in sight and still not meet your expectations.

Great thread!

 

[JockNerd]

Best stuff: I absolutely love my adviser. She's just shockingly brilliant, and she's catapulted my research ideas from pretty darn great to awesomely amazing. We got along fantastically from the minute I got here. Really, a good relationship with your adviser can make all the difference in the world.

The adviser is huge on funding, and so am I. I'm in for a bunch of grants that would make me VERY happy. Getting free money for doing things you were going to do anyway can make grad school very fun.

I go to a research-focused school, and I'm moving nice and quick on a lot of cool stuff. Should have two first-authored papers by the end of the semester, and more on the way. Some people in the program have a pretty strong clinical focus, and they're the more unhappy ones. A bit of advice for the applicants--don't lie about loving research just to get into a program!

Also, it never snows here.

Worst stuff: The buses here suck. I miss some people back home (but it's not as bad as I expected). I'm not going to have a ton of clinical hours when I apply for internship (but I'm hoping my adviser's awesome network and my site choices can balance that out!). My program gets people through in 4 years, so I work my ass off.

It's still awesome, though. 😀

 

[RayneeDeigh]

It's still awesome, though. 😀

You, shut up! When I made this thread I knew you were going to reply eventually, haha. After we drove you home my mom was like "wow, ______ seems pretty damn happy with his program."

My theory: You're on drugs. 😀

As for this thread: I thought of another con about grad school in general. You can look at your dayplanner on a Sunday night and think "hmm, this week doesn't look too bad" and by Monday morning you've got seventy billion emails in your inbox asking you to attend meetings or something and suddenly you're wondering why you haven't slept all week. Like right now it "looks" like I only have classes on Monday and Tuesday all semester. But I know Friday's filled with meetings and I'll no doubt be seeing clients on Wednesdays and Thursdays. Your time is never your own.

 

[JockNerd]

You, shut up! When I made this thread I knew you were going to reply eventually, haha. After we drove you home my mom was like "wow, ______ seems pretty damn happy with his program."

My theory: You're on drugs. 😀

MY theory is that brain plasticity combined with my dispositional happiness caused the neural connections responsible for sadness to rewire, enabling me to learn to play the ukulele and leaving me unable to shake this cheery outlook. Believe me, you're not the only person it annoys. Imagine having me in your cohort. 😀 Speculation in my program has me faking happiness and really crying inside, I think.

Being able to look on the bright side is a virtue in grad school. I'm as swamped with tasks as anyone else, but I've noticed that I moan about it much less than some of my colleagues. Faculty seems to appreciate it, even if my classmates want to stab me sometimes.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Best: My advisor (since 2nd year) has provided all of his research group members publication opportunities. All the other groups are jealous.

Worst: Being the only non-liberal on campus. I have basically been in the closet since I got here directly from active duty. I arrived with my Bush 04 sticker on my truck and found myself in the middle of a sea of Kerry stickers. I immediately took it off to not stand out so much. I thought it would be OK because grad school should be a place of tolerance for other views. Not so. It sucks being the only person on campus who does not adhere in lock-step with the following religiously held paradigms:

Guns/Poverty/Racism cause crime.
George Bush is Satan.
Against affirmative action=Racist.
The FEMA failings of Katrina were because of institutional bias/bigotry against African Americans.
The idea that freedom and private property are what makes America great is xenophobic.
If you are in the military and a psychologist you have to justify (EVERY time it comes up) the supposed torture that military psychologists engage in.
A cuture that engages in clitoredectamies, honor killings of rape victoms, does not let women drive or have jobs or show their faces in public and executes homosexuals just for being such is "just as valid" as ours.
If you think Roe V Wade should be overturned (on constitutional grounds) but you are also pro-choice (and pro-states rights) no matter--you are anti-woman.

However, I have made some great friends, and I will cherish watching their careers flourish, even if I disagree with them 99% of the time. I met the best man in my wedding here, and he is wrong about everything 🙂.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Worst: Being the only non-liberal on campus.

It sucks being the only person on campus who does not adhere in lock-step with the following religiously held paradigms:

I was 1 week into my classes my 1st year when I got into a great discussion with one of my professors about this very topic. I am use to it as I went to an UBER-liberal undergrad, but I was hoping people would be a bit more open minded. I guess you can't win them all! 😀

When I was still at my undergrad (but working full-time) I ended up on the other side of a protest....where many of my classmates and some professors were at. I had business at the company, and they were protesting their business practices.....whoops!

-t

 

[Ollie123]

Best: My advisor (since 2nd year) has provided all of his research group members publication opportunities. All the other groups are jealous.

I missed this the first time I read it. I don't want to seem like I'm raining on the parade so to speak but...isn't this expected? Are there SERIOUSLY advisors out there that don't provide publication opportunities? Some labs obviously have more going on than others, but I don't think I've ever heard of a lab not providing publication opportunities to grad students. Wouldn't there like....be a mutiny?

I understand PGSP is a good deal more clinically focused than most of the programs I'd be familiar with, but obviously they want students to get involved in research if they have research groups...why would those students not be involved in publishing? To me that sounds like someone here doing a practicum but not actually being given opportunities to see clients, its kind of missing the fundamental element of grad student level involvement.

Again, not trying to bash your school or anything, just want to make sure I understood correctly. Does this kind of thing really happen? If so, I feel like I lucked out, because the idea that something like this could happen never even crossed my mind when I was applying.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

I missed this the first time I read it. I don't want to seem like I'm raining on the parade so to speak but...isn't this expected? Are there SERIOUSLY advisors out there that don't provide publication opportunities? Some labs obviously have more going on than others, but I don't think I've ever heard of a lab not providing publication opportunities to grad students. Wouldn't there like....be a mutiny?

I understand PGSP is a good deal more clinically focused than most of the programs I'd be familiar with, but obviously they want students to get involved in research if they have research groups...why would those students not be involved in publishing? To me that sounds like someone here doing a practicum but not actually being given opportunities to see clients, its kind of missing the fundamental element of grad student level involvement.

Again, not trying to bash your school or anything, just want to make sure I understood correctly. Does this kind of thing really happen? If so, I feel like I lucked out, because the idea that something like this could happen never even crossed my mind when I was applying.

Well, I probably exagerrated a little bit, but the truth is, my group has the best pub stream. Its Dr. Larry Beutler and the National Center for the Psychology of Terrorism. Most of the other groups contribute to the pet projects of the research group advisor, and don't get a lot of authorships out of it. Dr. Beutler runs ours like a business. He hands out invitations to write and if you don't vounteer/contribute you are in trouble. He has a rule--3 publications by the end of the 4th year, each student.

 

[Ollie123]

Oh okay, that's a little better.

I was concerned there for a minute - I'd be worried if there were schools out there where students seriously were not involved in the publication process. Not everyone is going to come out with a dozen pubs for obvious reasons, but if an advisor wasn't even providing opportunities for his students to publish...well I'd kick him out the door, tenure or no, but that's me🙂

Cool research area though, and its great working for a super-productive researcher. My lab is quite productive as well (though admittedly nowhere near the number of pubs Beutler has), and I'm pretty much diving in as far as my involvement goes - something that will bite me in the ass next year I'm sure, but its a great start and not only will help me in my career later, I also think it makes grad school alot more fun.

I'm also curious what you mean by "runs it like a business" since well...that sounds alot like how I plan on running my lab 1000 years from now when I'm actually done with school, internship and post-doc. Would you mind elaborating? (feel free to PM if you don't want to go into too much detail here). I'm just curious what you meant by that, especially since whatever he is doing is obviously working very well.

 

[irish80122]

It is funny how things change. I just received an email with the survey responses from the class I taught this semester. It is funny as just last year I was an undergrad filling these out and now I am reading the responses much like my professors read mine. For instance, for the students who marked me down for "mastery of subject matter" I would like to know how they know this. I taught them Intro to Psych. How do they know my mastery of the subject matter?

It is just funny being on this side of it and realizing how important these questionnaires are and yet, at the same time, how irrational they are in some ways.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It is funny how things change. I just received an email with the survey responses from the class I taught this semester. It is funny as just last year I was an undergrad filling these out and now I am reading the responses much like my professors read mine. For instance, for the students who marked me down for "mastery of subject matter" I would like to know how they know this. I taught them Intro to Psych. How do they know my mastery of the subject matter?

It is just funny being on this side of it and realizing how important these questionnaires are and yet, at the same time, how irrational they are in some ways.

I think the feedback/evaluation forms can be REALLY helpful, though if thy are just Likert scales, that leaves a lot to be desired. Do they have sections to leave comments?

-t

 

[deleted176373]

Best: My advisor (since 2nd year) has provided all of his research group members publication opportunities. All the other groups are jealous.

Worst: Being the only non-liberal on campus.

However, I have made some great friends, and I will cherish watching their careers flourish, even if I disagree with them 99% of the time. I met the best man in my wedding here, and he is wrong about everything 🙂.

You don't exactly see many open liberals on my campus and you aren't gonna see a protest march and open pot smoking there anytime soon either. LOL, USUHS is a strange place when compared to most college environments.

Mark

 

[irish80122]

I think the feedback/evaluation forms can be REALLY helpful, though if thy are just Likert scales, that leaves a lot to be desired. Do they have sections to leave comments?

-t

They could leave comments but I didn't get that information yet. As it is it is hard to make much sense of them, but oh well. It gives me some ideas on how to improve, so it is valuable in that way at least.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Oh okay, that's a little better.

I was concerned there for a minute - I'd be worried if there were schools out there where students seriously were not involved in the publication process. Not everyone is going to come out with a dozen pubs for obvious reasons, but if an advisor wasn't even providing opportunities for his students to publish...well I'd kick him out the door, tenure or no, but that's me🙂

Cool research area though, and its great working for a super-productive researcher. My lab is quite productive as well (though admittedly nowhere near the number of pubs Beutler has), and I'm pretty much diving in as far as my involvement goes - something that will bite me in the ass next year I'm sure, but its a great start and not only will help me in my career later, I also think it makes grad school alot more fun.

I'm also curious what you mean by "runs it like a business" since well...that sounds alot like how I plan on running my lab 1000 years from now when I'm actually done with school, internship and post-doc. Would you mind elaborating? (feel free to PM if you don't want to go into too much detail here). I'm just curious what you meant by that, especially since whatever he is doing is obviously working very well.

We come in to research group meeting every other Monday and we meet in the conference room. Dr. Beutler sits at the head and all the 3rd and 4th years are around the table. The 2nd years sit in chairs around the outside of the room, because they are not on his radar screen yet. THey are just getting an idea of what these meetings will be like for the next 2-3 years.

He starts the meeting by going over announcements (this person got engaged, we got some grant money, etc) then he looks at the first person sitting to his left and says "what's going on with your project(s)?" If you have not made any progress on whatever it is you are doing, it is better not to show up to the meeting. Or if you are honest about it he asks for volunteers (from the quiet, scared little 2nd years on the outside of the room) to help you. "So and so, do you want to help Scott get this project finished. It is taking way too long." He does this to every one of the senior members.

THEN he starts going over invitations he has received to write in such and such journal or some undergrad textbook that he does not feel like doing and again, gets volunteers to write/contribute and of course, you get the appropriate order of authorship based on your level of contribution.

Then we all leave, depressed that a guy who is closing in on 70 has 10 times more energy then all of us combined.

The end.