warning about medicine and stress

[@70mphC2005--->]

medicine is a life-long committment to stress, just to let those know who are wondering

first you get to think about how you'll do on the mcat which is pretty much a spoon-feed if your doing one of those prep-courses. once you get your score back, then you need to write a personal statement for applying and schmooz for letters. then you apply and stress hard about waiting for interviews and acceptance letters, over the next several months you'll check your mail box insanely.

then you're in med school and you think you're god, and find out your a nobody. but this is the chillest time until you take step 1 - something that might make or break your decision about some residency your interested in.

then comes 3rd year - where you need to become pro at kissing butt and schmooz for more letters, after all, now it's getting time to apply for residency. after getting all your letters together, and doing rotations in cities your interested in, you'll need to check your e-mail every hour to find out if you get an interview and fill the interview slot before someone else does, otherwise your out in the doghouse. oh, but now there is step 2 that you have to do. and worse about step 2 is that there is a 'cs' portion to it, a clinical skills portion that costs 1000 dollars alone so your can show that you can interview 12 people, do a right physical exam, and write these patients - sounds easy, but ask anyone and they'll tell you it's harder than you think.

now after interviews, you have to rank the ones you get, call everyone and research everything you can about the programs to decide which is first. then they make you wait another month before you find out if you have a future in that field on match day.

then you have internship, the worst year of your life - hey but it's just one year. then you have to take step 3, again spending hundreds or a thousand on any resources you can find to help you study.

the finally, finally residency, and moonlighting if your residency allows, to pay off that 100,000 dollar loan, which you'll actually have to pay 230,000 if you pay it off in 10 years because of interest.

then you have to take the boards for your residency and again spend weeks of your life locked in your house so you can pass.

then you may want to apply for fellowship, after all, you may have wanted to be a cardiologist or something, one of the most competitive fellowships to get into - meaning lotsa butt kissing during residency for good letters.

now almost 10 years after stepping foot in med school, you're finally ready to practice. but you need to confide to the rules of whatever institution you work in, cuz there's hardly a way for you to start private practice after residency unless you're rich or something - highly unlikely after what you've just been through. hopefully your spouse hasn't had enough of all this craze and decided to leave you yet.

now work hard hard hard to catch up financially to everyone else your age, and still pay off those loans.

hopefully the story past here is good, and hopefully there's no bleeding peptic ulcers along the way.

good luck

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[Pinkertinkle]

I expect my mommy and daddy to pay for medical school.

 

[premyo2002]

I anticipate winning the california lottery

 

[Brickhouse]

Spend some time in a mine field in Cambodia. Or a POW camp. I assume that might put things in perspective for you.
Not that I have, but before you complain about the road you decided to take, take a second to think of the alternatives, and be grateful that you had the choice to begin with.

 

[DMO]

Don't forget about the terrible feeling of disgust you get when you save a life or see your patient leave the hospital after a severe trauma accident. After all, we future physicians enter the medical field not to heal people in their time of need but to become stressed out and financially un-sound.

Medicine is and should be a passion of the heart. The stress and the risks are something that we just deal with. Since childhood, we all (here in this forum) dream of being a doctor and acquire a passion to heal and treat people. There's the bad and the good. It's part of the job.

 

[jlee9531]

its better than being homeless.

 

[Luthertaketwo]

You know, this thread really is pushing me towards going the nursing/crna route.

I wish I was joking.

 

[ndi_amaka]

Please, going through the medical process is no where NEAR STRESS when you compare your "plight" to other people's lives. Try being a 19 yr old soldier in Iraq for instance. At least in 10 years most people will appreciate and respect what we do.

 

[finnpipette]

I occasionally meet 4th years and residents who hate their lives, resent their patients and wish that they had chosen another profession...unfortunately they are out of luck because they need to pay off some massive loans. I feel really sorry for those guys...it's really sad to see. I know I'm not any less human than those guys are. I'm sure that they didn't go into medicine thinking that things wouldn't work out...wouldn't like the lifestyle, the patients wouldn't be grateful, wifey would leave. I'm sure they went into it as idealistically as I am right now...I really don't want to become that guy, and I'm praying that I stay sane throughout the process...that I can live a little and not live for the day when things get comfortable, because that day may never come. $hit...life is rough, but I'm still glowing at the chance to study medicine. Wow. What a privilege. Ok, I'll stop rambling.

 

[CalBeE]

We all still have a few months to decide if we wanna get out or not...even though we spent money on MCAT, airtickets, interview suits...getting out now is not too late....

That seriously crossed my mind recently. I'm like what the heck did I get myself into now....I'm just scared of the future.

 

[ndi_amaka]

Originally posted by finnpipette
I occasionally meet 4th years and residents who hate their lives, resent their patients and wish that they had chosen another profession...

I think there are times when everyone regrets going into their field, whether it's medicine or law or business. You just have to hope that the days when you love and appreciate what you're doing outweigh the times you want to shoot somebody.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Originally posted by ndi_amaka
I think there are times when everyone regrets going into their field, whether it's medicine or law or business. You just have to hope that the days when you love and appreciate what you're doing outweigh the times you want to shoot somebody.

Yes, there are times when everyone regrets going into their field. So relax - medicine is good

 

[irie]

I just watched 30 hours of E.R. and I think I have a better idea of what medicine is about than what the OP has described. My favorite part is how we allow the entire family watch as we crack open their mother's chest to find out that her aorta has been almost shredded. CRASH CART!!!

 

[Spitting Camel]

@70mphC2005--->

Who is this guy?

Who does that?

Who says these things?

 

[Kalel]

Originally posted by jlee9531
its better than being homeless.

"White Coat: Becoming a Doctor at HMS" had a great story along these lines. A Harvard med student was talking to one of his homeless patients about how much it stunk to be him because of the amount of debt he was going into just paying for school. The patient told him that he'd rather be in his position then be homeless. Helps you keep things in perspective.

 

[Odaroloc]

I recommend everyone here read, White Coat, Not an Entirely Benign Procedure, Complications, and House of God...in that order. Well worth your time...enlightening, inspirational, humbling, and especially in the case of House of God...a little scary. my 0.02

 

[ad_sharp]

Medicine isn't always a party, but it beats working at a dead end, barely above minimum wage job for the rest of your life. If you are fortunate enough to get to medical school, you should be happy. You are being given the chance to actually do something great with your life. Not many people are afforded such an opportunity.

Is medicine stressful......yes it is, but so is not being able to pay your bills, meeting deadlines at a corporate job, or having a bad boss. There is always something to stress about no matter who you are or where you're from. The difference between people is how you deal with it.

 

[@70mphC2005--->]

the point of all this is not to scare you away from medicine, but to let you know that your life will be on hold for a looong time. meaning that, remember when you studied for the mcat and you might have cancelled some of your workouts or weekend mountain bike rides, or forgot about looking good and dressing nice because 'right now is the most important time, to get into medical school and i'm allowed to let go of my fun, family, and friends for this test' - well the truth is just about your entire medical training is like this... fun family and friends are taken away, and this is an even worse situation for any of those with family in california who will be going to the east coast, or vice versa.

sure you can try to keep a balanced life and keep your fun, but it seems like the ones who do end up having panic attacks days before their exams [not my cup of tea].

but there needs to be smart people in medicine. and really there are people who could not live with themselves if they did not go into medicine, or find this type of rigidity of the program to be 'good for them' for whatever reason. go for it.

my recommendation - try to bond with at least a couple people in your med school class to make this experience a bit easier, even if you don't consider yourself a social person. finding a med school with people you like can make a big difference. if you are older, look for schools that have other older students to relate with. if you're a certain nationality and click with others in that group, look for schools that take a high percentage of that nationality. if you're young, have ultra-high mcats and grades, and all about getting into the top school, do all you can to get into one otherwise people will avoid you if you're in the wrong school. if you're into smoking pot on the weekends, you'll have a hard time finding any school with many 'cool guys' in your class. etc.

 

[tautomer]

Just wondering mph,

are you a practicing physician now?

 

[mobius]

i think it is how you handle stress that matters everyone has it....

 

[Thewonderer]

@70mphC2005---> has a genuine point to make. Posters who asked him to put "his stress" into perspective have not gone through the clinical years of medical school and let alone residency. Even during the basic science, what is the difference between prison and forcing yourself to mindlessly memorize hundred and hundreds of pages of typed class notes while locking yourself in the room for 7-9 straight days? This is in no shape or form intellectual. And as one internal medicine resident told me, medicine is all about algorithm. Yes, finding out what algorithms to learn and how to use it is exciting (the process is since it quenches your curiosity). But once you acquire it, can you imagine how boring it is to use the same set of algorithms to take care of hypertension, diabetes, coronary artery disease, lower back pain, bronchitis, emphysema, etc. day in and day out???

College organic chem is nothing compared to the amount of material they throw at you in med school. In college, I could study for three nights and go into organic chem mid-term, knowing 95% of the materials and aced it. In medical school, I could study for 7 days (night and day) and would feel good just knowing 30% of the material going into the exam and the rest of it is up to luck as I need to guess what is the most important 30% of the material (I simply could not memorize everything in every topic!). And when 3rd year comes, there is no way for you all to even imagine what being on the floor is like. In the business arena, you can hide behind your desk and your boss leaves you clear instructions. And once you get accustomed to putting out the same type of books after books for your boss in the investment firm, you are golden. The rest is dirty work. In medicine, you try to fit into a new team every 4 weeks and every day is filled with dirty work that is dfferent depending on what floor you are on, which resident you work with during the day, which one you work with during call-night, which nurse takes care of your pt, which lab tech answers the phone when you call for lab values, which attending comes on to the service etc. etc. On top of that, nobody leaves you clear instruction but yet they expect you to integrate yourself into the team. And they expect you to take responsibility of your patients as though as you are their doctors but yet your signatures don't count (so if you want to order tests and writes for certain meds, you have to chase the residents down) and when important lab values come back, they call the residents first and NEVER NEVER call you (so it is common to find out next morning during round that a low potassium level was alerted last night to the resident on call but you could not have known that). This is beyond most people's imagination!!

I personally think that there should one requirement that all applicants to med schools should fulfill:

either 1) follow a internal medicine or surgery resident for a whole week, second by second. The resident sleeps, you sleep. The resident is awake, you are awake. The resident is standing on rounds or in the OR, you stand right beside him or her. Let's see what you say after a week or so. No more of, "I shadowed my pediatrician once a week for two summers and I know that I want to be a doctor. By the way, I did not come into the clinic until 10am and he let me go early every time by 3pm. He is such a nice, easy-going person and I want to be like him!"

or 2) date a resident for 6 months and see how you can handle it. The conversation will inevitably be evolving the topics of "Honey, why do you need to be in the hospital again overnight after having spent 80 hours there last week? Honey, why are falling asleep at dinner table? Why aren't we taking a 2-day trip to the beach this weekend just like every other normal human being? Damn it, we have not had a whole weekend off for 3 months! Why do you need to get off the phone after talking to me for only 5 minutes while you are on call? Are you really that busy?"

Until the, idealism is great. But not until then, will you find out that medicine is LIFE, NOT a profession.

 

[Brickhouse]

Originally posted by Thewonderer
[B
2) date a resident for 6 months and see how you can handle it. The conversation will inevitably be evolving the topics of "Honey, why do you need to be in the hospital again overnight after having spent 80 hours there last week? Honey, why are falling asleep at dinner table? Why aren't we taking a 2-day trip to the beach this weekend just like every other normal human being? Damn it, we have not had a whole weekend off for 3 months! Why do you need to get off the phone after talking to me for only 5 minutes while you are on call? Are you really that busy?"

Un[/B]

edit: Argh, caught feeding the trolls again!

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

I think the OP has a great point to make and it is important for idealistic pre-meds to get a little more of a glimpse of what they are in for. Yes, everybody has heard the hours and how hard med school is. Unfortunately, it is difficult to understand it until you have been through it. This post may give you a little more of an idea of what you are in for.

 

[finnpipette]

Sounds fun. Where do I sign? Btw, how's the average resident's sex life like? The lack of sleep must really take a toll on your libido.

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by Thewonderer
[B I personally think that there should one requirement that all applicants to med schools should fulfill:

[/B]

your two suggestions are still easier to deal with than real problems some of us have faced. id love to take up those two suggestions compared to the stuff ive had to do. but unfortunately i dont have that luxury.

 

[SunnyS81]

Whenever this topic comes up (it seems like monthly), I think to myself, "I wonder what these kids are going to specialize in."

I'm just waiting for some of you to say, "i'm going into Radiology or anesthesiology because I don't want to deal with patients. I might consider surgery, but that is too much patient contact." And yes, I've heard many residents say this is why they choose their fields, so don't go off on me.

As for comparing the position of a med student to someone in Cambodia or who is homeless, I think the comparison is absolutely useless and has little value. The OP discusses the economic decisions involved in become a doctor, so you have to operate in the same paradigm. From an economic perspective, you compare going to med school to your next best alternative. Personally, I had a job offer of $50k/year coming out of college, if I didn't go to med school. Therefore, comparing my situation to an entry level engineer (or whatever you want to use) makes a lot more sense. Yes I'm not homeless. Would I ever be? No, I could always move back home (although my parents wouldn't be too happy). Would I be in Cambodia, not sure why I would be. Heck, comparing me to my cousins in India makes little sense based on what opportunities were afforded to us......

Then again maybe you will be homeless if you're a surgeon that has something go wrong in the OR, and your malpractice insurance is only $200k (I know neurosurgeons who have a max coverage per year of $200k.....that wouldn't cover one lawsuit).

Be realistic.......living in a world of idealism is nieve.....

 

[Brickhouse]

Originally posted by SunnyS81

Be realistic.......living in a world of idealism is nieve.....

nieve - doesn't that mean 'snow' in spanish?

Well whatever, yeah maybe I'll end up miserable, poor and homeless, maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt - at any rate, I don't see the utility in coming to an online forum which is designed to be supportive to people trying to get into med school and telling them to prepare to be miserable.


edit: ACK! Must...stop....feeding....trolls....

someone help me start "Troll feeders anonymous!"

 

[TheFlash]

It boils down to simple economic analysis. Looking from a strictly monetary point of view, yes, medical training causes one to incur enormous costs in the expense of building one's human capital. Even so, the earnings payoff will still be very large coming out of residency, negating the costs. Ignoring this financial jargon, you've got to realize that most people going into medicine have utility preferences for becoming doctors. They could be insanely deep in debt, but still be maximizing their personal satisfaction if medicine/healing others is a primary part of their personal utility function. Finances shouldn't be the prime motivating factor to choose a career, ever.

 

[Brickhouse]

Originally posted by TheFlash
It boils down to simple economic analysis. Looking from a strictly monetary point of view, yes, medical training causes one to incur enormous costs in the expense of building one's human capital. Even so, the earnings payoff will still be very large coming out of residency, negating the costs. Ignoring this financial jargon, you've got to realize that most people going into medicine have utility preferences for becoming doctors. They could be insanely deep in debt, but still be maximizing their personal satisfaction if medicine/healing others is a primary part of their personal utility function. Finances shouldn't be the prime motivating factor to choose a career, ever.

I love you. Got any more pictures?

 

[TheFlash]

Originally posted by Brickhouse
I love you. Got any more pictures?

Heh for the venerable Brick, of course, but not for the enjoyment of these pre-allo miscreants.

 

[docmemi]

it cant be as bad as you say. there are 1000s of stu, res and dr's out there that have survived the process. now they are making bank and enjoying life.

but, honestly, you succeeded in scaring me...

 

[docmemi]

bump

 

[docmemi]

lol...i knew i had that coming. i was hoping no one would notice. lol. but to be honest, im just bored.

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by docmemi
lol...i knew i had that coming. i was hoping no one would notice. lol. but to be honest, im just bored.

thats when you go to the lounge and try to understand zuma.

 

[Thewonderer]

I actually decided to go into psych so I would have the patient contact that I thought docs would have before I came into med school. Nowadays, with family docs spending on average 7 min with patient and another 5 min on paper work, there is really no time to get to know your patient. When you go to your school's student infimary or clinic, the nurse practitioner there (who supposedly gets to spend more time with you one on and one than doc) won't even spend more than 10 minutes with you, let alone asking "how are you today?" A simple question that is not asked because it would open a can of worms that most docs don't want to touch. Because when you said, "well I actually feel a little down lately because of the work load and could I call that depression," then that means the docs are obligated to spend at least 5 more minutes with you to screen for suicidal ideation and to tease out the details. Almost all docs don't want to do that because they are already 1-2 hours behind in their clinic schedule. By comparison, many many surgeons just care about getting their post-op patients home ASAP. As for whether their patients will make meaningful recovery at home due to socioeconomic factors, they could care less.

For me, the sucky part about medical training is not about economics but about the constant shift in mind-set and floor politics.

1000's of residents have come through the system but that does not mean all of them are satisfied with the system. I think that more and more students are choosing anesthesiology, radiology, pathology, etc. because during the training period, they found out that doctor-patient relationship is NO WHERE close to what they had imagined before they stepped into medical school.

 

[rgporter]

Originally posted by finnpipette
....I'm praying that I stay sane throughout the process...that I can live a little and not live for the day when things get comfortable, because that day may never come. $hit...life is rough, but I'm still glowing at the chance to study medicine. Wow. What a privilege. Ok, I'll stop rambling.

Seconded. It took me four years after I graduated to apply to med school (actually three, then one to apply) partly because I didn't want to make a mistake and end up trapped in a profession I hated. That time gave me a chance to really judge what I want to do and I have to say that I feel so privileged to be able to study medicine. Only a simpleton would expect his life to be happy-go-lucky in the medical field. You are going to work your a$$ off, and you are going to see things you wish you could forget. But what an honor, to be trusted with peoples lives.
It blows me away every time I think about it; I get to spend the rest of my career helping sick people become well. Awesome, I can't wait. Life is full of sacrifices, but wow what a payoff.

 

[Celestron2000]

Yeah, I have to agree. Few things that are worth doing are easy. I admit that I'm more than a little scared, but I feel that medicine is a calling for me, and therefor I will find the grace to survive and thrive while doing it.

 

[U4iA]

being one of the few people in the world that has absorbed (or at least attemped to) the medical knowledge we have collectively developed as a species is pretty awesome. of course it's going to suck at times, everything sucks at times. but if you go in to it for the right reasons, with accurate perceptions, and you're the kind of person that can delay your gratification and maintain a positive attitude even when there is seemingly no hope - then you should shouldn't pass the opportunity to do something that is pulling on you because a couple of kids say it's stressful - isn't it given that entering the most exclusive profession will be difficult?

i think the suggestion posted about shadowing a resident 24/7 is good advice to break the idealism many pre-meds harbor. in my opinion, the bottom line: go to medical school prepared, knowing that it is a life sacrice, and eager, or don't go to at all.

i didn't mean for this to sound like a rant, but i think it does.. oh well, feel free to flame..

 

[celticmists18]

My dad compared the process of becoming a doctor to the process of grieving . . . first comes denial, then anger, and on and on (I can't remember all the steps) until finally at some point you get to acceptance. "The difficulty of pursuing a worthy cause should not deter you from trying."

 

[Brickhouse]

Originally posted by celticmists18
My dad compared the process of becoming a doctor to the process of grieving . . . first comes denial, then anger, and on and on (I can't remember all the steps) until final at some point you get to acceptance. "The difficulty of of pursuing a worthy cause should not deter you from trying."

Wow. Yeah, I'm going in aware that I'm ignorant of what's to come, but know that an easy life is not going to make me happy, and that the things worth doing are going to be challenging.

Hey I just saw that movie last night "under the tuscan sun" - ok I sort of half ass watched it cuz I was doing laundry - it struck me as an airplane movie - but how yummy was that guy she hooks up with?

 

[Brickhouse]

Originally posted by Thewonderer
1000's of residents have come through the system but that does not mean all of them are satisfied with the system. I think that more and more students are choosing anesthesiology, radiology, pathology, etc. because during the training period, they found out that doctor-patient relationship is NO WHERE close to what they had imagined before they stepped into medical school.

Nothing is ever as we think. If none of us were at least curious enough to try this, it would be a very different world. We have an instinct to do something and we will try our best to make it work; if in the end we are sourly disillusioned - well, we might have been so had we let our curiousities pass us by, never having followed our hearts.
This is a journey. Hopefully, there will be moments of light and truth amongst the hours of muck and mire.

 

[Brickhouse]

Originally posted by zuma
yeah but everyone has a weakness or *achilles heel* to something. heaping more stress --that of one of THE MOST stressful careers (medicine) upon sum individuals is a recipe for disaster. ...

Zuma who let you out of the Lounge?