Warning---> I'm venting <--- Warning

[Doc Henry]

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I hate being poor and I hate our piece of #%@$ "insurance company", if you want to call them that. We pay however many hundred dollars a month, but when we really need something, do you think it is sufficiently covered? Hell no!!!!

My husband has had an auto immune disorder for most of his life but it is now worse than ever, so we finally went to a specialist to get him on some meds. We found some great funding for the medication where they give you a months free medication and 4800 bucks a year toward copays....Well guess what? Our copay is $1400 A MONTH...WTF??? We got all excited that he might be able to start living a normal life again, and our hopes just got crushed....😡

I really just want to throw my hands up and give up...between financial stress, mcat stress/application stress, school stress, recently losing other family members and facing a future where two more could be gone soon (not my husband), all the while not trying to stress out our 10 year old son, it all just adds up to be too much sometimes...

I know we all have our own battles, nobody has a perfect life, but sometimes I just get that feeling that I am getting a pretty large share of crap to deal with....

Oh well, at least the adcoms wont have to worry about whether I have "real life" experience...have to laugh about it somehow, or I'll cry🙁

/end pitty party

UPDATE May 8th
Not so much of a happy update unfortunately:

My husband has had to switch meds twice due to insurance issues, and just when he was starting to feel better, we find out his liver isn't doing so well on them. His liver enzymes are 5 times the normal upper limit. So now the meds are on hold while we dump a ton more money (not a lot of labs are covered for us on insurance) into just figuring out what is wrong with his liver. If he can't be on the meds, i just don't know what we'll do...things were really looking up, on now it seems like hopes are crushed AGAIN

Oh, and it looks like I'll be spending my year "off" while applying, living with my grandma as she has just been told she should never eat again do to chronic bowel obstructions. She needs help managing her TPN, as well as the insulin dependent diabetes it causes. I'm happy to help, and feel lucky that I will be out of school for what will likely be one of her last, if not the las years of her life.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Cut off your insurance agent's head and throw it in the river.

 

[JaggerPlate]

There has to be some sense of poetic irony in venting about doctors in specialties with the best co-pays (in their favor) on a pre-med forum where everyone wants to be a dermatologist . Kind of puts a perspective on going into medicine for the right reasons in the first place. I'm sorry to hear about your situation and hopefully everything will work out okay in the end. Until then, feel free to vent ... we will all support you here!!


note: I realize your gripe was probably far more with the insurance company than the doctor, but I just wanted to point out that piece of the situation.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Can a DO be a dermatologist?

 

[PunkmedGirl]

I hate being poor and I hate our piece of #%@$ "insurance company", if you want to call them that. We pay however many hundred dollars a month, but when we really need something, do you think it is sufficiently covered? Hell no!!!!

My husband has had an auto immune disorder for most of his life but it is now worse than ever, so we finally went to a specialist to get him on some meds. We found some great funding for the medication where they give you a months free medication and 4800 bucks a year toward copays....Well guess what? Our copay is $1400 A MONTH...WTF??? We got all excited that he might be able to start living a normal life again, and our hopes just got crushed....😡

I really just want to throw my hands up and give up...between financial stress, mcat stress/application stress, school stress, recently losing other family members and facing a future where two more could be gone soon (not my husband), all the while not trying to stress out our 10 year old son, it all just adds up to be too much sometimes...

I know we all have our own battles, nobody has a perfect life, but sometimes I just get that feeling that I am getting a pretty large share of crap to deal with....

Oh well, at least the adcoms wont have to worry about whether I have "real life" experience...have to laugh about it somehow, or I'll cry🙁

/end pitty party

Sweetie I know exactly what you are going through. I am having a tough time myself between school, my daughter, her school, my dad, and folks who I have allowed to think they are using me because they feel I'm a pushover. I'm sick of being poor as well. Hang in there though, you and your family will get through it.🙂

 

[Jamers]

I hate being poor and I hate our piece of #%@$ "insurance company", if you want to call them that. We pay however many hundred dollars a month, but when we really need something, do you think it is sufficiently covered? Hell no!!!!

My husband has had an auto immune disorder for most of his life but it is now worse than ever, so we finally went to a specialist to get him on some meds. We found some great funding for the medication where they give you a months free medication and 4800 bucks a year toward copays....Well guess what? Our copay is $1400 A MONTH...WTF??? We got all excited that he might be able to start living a normal life again, and our hopes just got crushed....😡

I really just want to throw my hands up and give up...between financial stress, mcat stress/application stress, school stress, recently losing other family members and facing a future where two more could be gone soon (not my husband), all the while not trying to stress out our 10 year old son, it all just adds up to be too much sometimes...

I know we all have our own battles, nobody has a perfect life, but sometimes I just get that feeling that I am getting a pretty large share of crap to deal with....

Oh well, at least the adcoms wont have to worry about whether I have "real life" experience...have to laugh about it somehow, or I'll cry🙁

/end pitty party

Just keep all these feelings and memories in mind. Believe it or not, there are people, some representatives and others ignorant medical professionals, who believe no one goes through this. When I told one of my MPH classes the reason I was attempting a dual degree was because my father was one of those "pills or food" people you wouldn't believe the slack I got; that doesn't really happen, I don't believe you. Trust me, store this up and use it to enact change in the future.

 

[metalmd06]

Just keep all these feelings and memories in mind. Believe it or not, there are people, some representatives and others ignorant medical professionals, who believe no one goes through this. When I told one of my MPH classes the reason I was attempting a dual degree was because my father was one of those "pills or food" people you wouldn't believe the slack I got; that doesn't really happen, I don't believe you. Trust me, store this up and use it to enact change in the future.

Good idea, because something really needs to be done. Reimbursement is falling, malpractice is rising, practice overhead is a killer and student loans are a burden. My mother works for a great group of docs that includes 3 DO's (family practitioners and nephrologists). The phones are ringing non-stop at this place and patients are booked into the summer. I asked my mom how much some of the docs make and she said in the low 100,000's. Not anything to scoff at, right? My brother was sitting at the table while we were discussing this. He works at an automotive service shop. He's the manager of tire sales and a certified auto tech. He went to school for 18 months and only owes about 17K. He said his A tech (top Auto tech), makes 90K a year, starting.

The bottom line is that the insurance companies are basically stealing money from people, and instead of paying these people's doctors, they're pocketing the money. I understand that there needs to be a system of checks and balances in place that prevents doctors and healthcare professionals from abusing the system by billing excessively. But when the insurance companies are denying sick people of necessary treatment and simultaneously paying for a healthy person's annual physical, something is seriously wrong.

Also, somehow, the going rates for specific procedures have tanked in the past 15 years or so. The DO I work for is dual licenced in family medicine and OB/GYN. He said 10 years ago the insurers would pay about $5,000 for a historectomy. Today's going rate is $1,500. We need to do something once our medical education is complete to ensure the future and health of our patients, families and colleagues.

 

[Omashu]

I pay $120 per week in health insurance - family.
$30.00 co pays. I go to the hosital because I have to get a medical procedure done. My bill is a couple thousand, how do I pay that? We are on a fixed income and its impossible. I have endometriosis, and I get these severe "attacks" of pain. My ovaries feel as if their throbbing. I had one of these attacks last weekend, I don't want to get checked out cause I can't afford to be looked at. I don't have the money, I would rather take my son to disneyland, the circus...

I know I'm just a non-trad pre-med...I know I can't change the health care system. But I truly beleive that even if we take small steps - they add up and things can be changed. Yes....maybe i'm just dreaming....but I hope that if enough of us feel this way - we can change things - for everybody....patients and doctors.....everyone.

Hopefully, when I become a doctor - I know I'll have to be paid in order to run a practice, etc... But If I have a choice of doing a procedure in my office vs. hospital....and it doesn't make a difference where I do this procedure - I will try to put my patient first and not the money in my pocket or more money in the insurance company's pocket.

I've had so many medical crappy things happen to me - I won't forget them.

I just hope that medical school doesn't make me think otherwise (150,000 in student loans)

 

[LauraDO]

oh don't get me started on insurance companies. Long story short, I was self insured for a number of years because I owned my own buisness. I had a doctor who basically lied to my insurance company inorder to save himself (due to some malpractice issues) causing them to drop me and RETROACTIVATE all payments made under my 3 years of coverage. Thus I was left with over $30K in unpaid medical bills (I have crohns' and had been going through a particularly difficult time thus had many procedures and testing done) creditors calling me up threatening to take me to jail, yadda, yadda,

It was a miserable experience, completely ruined my previously perfect credit and I am still trying to pay everything off

 

[spazzz]

more of the irony is that we have to play this game when we're done.

 

[Powdermonkey]

Can a DO be a dermatologist?

No, but its because they only go to school for 3 years. But if you pay $150 when you are done you can switch your degree to MD and then you can be a dermatologist.

 

[t-funk]

I agree with most people on here, insurance companies are the devil and something needs to be done. It is encouraging that so many other pre-meds have had bad experiences with insurance companies. Hopefully, we can start working toward a change. I agree with Jamers that there are just so many people in the health care field who believe that everyone could afford healthcare if they just quit smoking, or drinking, or whatever vice they have and it's all their fault. IMO, that is just not the case. My kids got strep throat last month. My bill for a simple visit + drugs came out to about $200 + the $200 I pay per month. Last year, my out of pocket health care expenses came up to around $3000 not including health insurance. If you have ever lived on a normal non-physicians salary, that money is coming out of your children's mouths. Something needs to be done.

 

[Live4Life]

How would everyone feel if physician's salaries started at $100,000 and were capped at $150,000 a year after so many years of medical practice and medical school was subsidized by the federal government so that it only cost $6,000 per year? Would you still be willing to go into medicine? I for one would be willing to do this in a heart beat because it would reduce the stress associated with dealing with insurance companies.

This is completely theoretical and it would obviously have to be paid for by the government with the premiums that we and our employers now pay to private insurance companies. Or else the government could hand over the operations to a national non-profit organization that hires all of the doctors. I for one wouldn't want the government administering the program because they are highly inefficient and don't have a strong track record of responsibly spending money. As someone who has been out of undergraduate school for a while and that is employed by a company that only offers a high deductible plan (AND I WORK FOR A HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANY!!! But I promise that I am not the devil b/c I work for their private foundation), I feel your pain. It's ridiculous that going to a doctor for a 10 minute visit for a sinus infection cost me $225 last month. Sorry, this is my vent also, didn't mean to be a thread thief.

 

[scdocusc]

I'm sorry for your situation. I really know how it goes. I was in a similar situation back when I was in high school. There are so many things wrong with insurance companies. It's impossible to get rid of them unfortunately at this point. It is highly unbalanced when a person can walk in and out of the ER with a cold and have a bill of 4000 dollars and not have to pay and then a lower middle class person will get smacked with a huge bill. I feel your pain.

 

[spazzz]

How would everyone feel if physician's salaries started at $100,000 and were capped at $150,000 a year after so many years of medical practice and medical school was subsidized by the federal government so that it only cost $6,000 per year? Would you still be willing to go into medicine? I for one would be willing to do this in a heart beat because it would reduce the stress associated with dealing with insurance companies.

This is completely theoretical and it would obviously have to be paid for by the government with the premiums that we and our employers now pay to private insurance companies. Or else the government could hand over the operations to a national non-profit organization that hires all of the doctors. I for one wouldn't want the government administering the program because they are highly inefficient and don't have a strong track record of responsibly spending money. As someone who has been out of undergraduate school for a while and that is employed by a company that only offers a high deductible plan (AND I WORK FOR A HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANY!!! But I promise that I am not the devil b/c I work for their private foundation), I feel your pain. It's ridiculous that going to a doctor for a 10 minute visit for a sinus infection cost me $225 last month. Sorry, this is my vent also, didn't mean to be a thread thief.

personally, no. what is at all the motivations career wise to spend money on a graduate degree and spend 7+ years doing so when you cap out at around the 7 year mark of a B.S. Business degree?

 

[scdocusc]

my suggestion for change:

1) transparency of costs

2) bring those that have little or no insurance up with basic coverage supported by a government fund

3) more focus on preventative medicine

4) reward healthy insured with lower insurance rates (healthy by choice and not by other means)not excluding pre existing diseases

5) establish a government run independent watchdog group to take the power of welfare and healthcare out of the hands of congress and provide close monitoring of insurance companies (similar to the SEC)

this is just the beginning. I saw a news confrence on CSPAN weeks ago by the Mayo clinic president and I suggest people watch it sometime. It was very informative and right on target.

 

[Live4Life]

personally, no. what is at all the motivations career wise to spend money on a graduate degree and spend 7+ years doing so when you cap out at around the 7 year mark of a B.S. Business degree?

That's the thing, I'm not going into medicine for the money, I'm going into it because it's my calling. I personally wouldn't have a problem with this new system serving as tool for weeding those out that are going into it for the money. If I wanted to make a ton of money, then I wouldn't choose medicine in the first place because reimbursement is continually going down and that trend will not stop soon. I realize that 7+ years is a long time, but this will ensure that those are becoming physicians are doing it for the right reasons, which will in turn ensure that their patients are receiving the best possible care. This is just me shooting the bull, so please don't take offense to this because its obvious that we are all passionate about these topics and that we all want the same thing, and that is for the health of our country to improve.

 

[Doc Henry]

Thanks for all the support you guys! When I wrote this last night I really was distraught. It is nice to know that others have been there, and that we all will be fighting for change.

Cut off your insurance agent's head and throw it in the river.

Thanks TT, always great advice

When I told one of my MPH classes the reason I was attempting a dual degree was because my father was one of those "pills or food" people you wouldn't believe the slack I got; that doesn't really happen, I don't believe you. Trust me, store this up and use it to enact change in the future.

Yeah, it's amazing how many people have never gone through rough medical things, and don't have any understanding of how hard it can be.

I am very interested in MPH. I really want to get involved with community health/health promotion/prevention...I'm also interested in health policy.

I know I'm just a non-trad pre-med...I know I can't change the health care system. But I truly beleive that even if we take small steps - they add up and things can be changed.

Hopefully, when I become a doctor - I know I'll have to be paid in order to run a practice, etc... But If I have a choice of doing a procedure in my office vs. hospital....and it doesn't make a difference where I do this procedure - I will try to put my patient first and not the money in my pocket or more money in the insurance company's pocket.

I've had so many medical crappy things happen to me - I won't forget them.

I just hope that medical school doesn't make me think otherwise (150,000 in student loans)

I feel the same way. And I, too, will try my best to remember what it was like to be on the other end of it...and therefore will try to make the best decision financially (and of course health-wise) for my patients

How would everyone feel if physician's salaries started at $100,000 and were capped at $150,000 a year after so many years of medical practice and medical school was subsidized by the federal government so that it only cost $6,000 per year? Would you still be willing to go into medicine? I for one would be willing to do this in a heart beat because it would reduce the stress associated with dealing with insurance companies.

I would have no problem having my income capped at 100-150k as long as I hadn't gone in to crazy debt...However, I don't really know about this as far as people who want to do specialties that take way longer...I know it was hypothetical, so it isn't like you tried to work out all the kinks...but yea, in general I don't mind the concept. Because while the salary of a physician is something to look forward to (especially as my husband, son, and I SHARE a tiny 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate), it is absolutely not why I want to be a doctor

personally, no. what is at all the motivations career wise to spend money on a graduate degree and spend 7+ years doing so when you cap out at around the 7 year mark of a B.S. Business degree?

Ummm...because I want to be a doctor, doing medical stuff, not a business woman, doing businessy stuff

 

[spazzz]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not in medicine for money either. But is it a factor? Yes, especially since we have close to 300k to pay back. It's a career, it's your livelyhood, it is how you will put food on your table. There are plenty of things you can do as an alternative to this "calling". Your hypothetical situation of med school costing 6k a year is not going to happen. Colleges aren't even that cheap anymore.

 

[slim78]

That's the thing, I'm not going into medicine for the money, I'm going into it because it's my calling. I personally wouldn't have a problem with this new system serving as tool for weeding those out that are going into it for the money. If I wanted to make a ton of money, then I wouldn't choose medicine in the first place because reimbursement is continually going down and that trend will not stop soon. I realize that 7+ years is a long time, but this will ensure that those are becoming physicians are doing it for the right reasons, which will in turn ensure that their patients are receiving the best possible care. This is just me shooting the bull, so please don't take offense to this because its obvious that we are all passionate about these topics and that we all want the same thing, and that is for the health of our country to improve.

Dude... my school charges WAAAAY too much in tuition for me to ever want to reach a 150k salary cap.

I'm going into medicine for a number of reasons. Some of them involve the "higher calling" aspect, but I also want to make sure my family is taken care of financially.

If I graduate with like 250k of debt I hope I can someday make enough to have it all paid off..... 100k a year doesn't go as far as it used to.

 

[spazzz]

That's the thing, I'm not going into medicine for the money, I'm going into it because it's my calling. I personally wouldn't have a problem with this new system serving as tool for weeding those out that are going into it for the money. If I wanted to make a ton of money, then I wouldn't choose medicine in the first place because reimbursement is continually going down and that trend will not stop soon. I realize that 7+ years is a long time, but this will ensure that those are becoming physicians are doing it for the right reasons, which will in turn ensure that their patients are receiving the best possible care. This is just me shooting the bull, so please don't take offense to this because its obvious that we are all passionate about these topics and that we all want the same thing, and that is for the health of our country to improve.

here's another thing, playing strictly devils advocate here, what's to say any motivating factor is the right one? I know plenty of pre-meds out there who claim that medicine is their calling but don't know any other career otherwise. Or what's to say that the guy going into it for strictly money isn't going to be the best doctor out there because of his motivating goals? I'm kind of done with the whole vocational thing, just because you have it in your heart, doesn't mean you can hack it in anything in this life. We're not 12 year olds in arts and crafts here, we're bred to be logical as well.

 

[spazzz]

Ummm...because I want to be a doctor, doing medical stuff, not a business woman, doing businessy stuff

and what, not have to ever worry about your billing, insurance, and patient claims? cuz someone else will take care of that for you as well?

 

[Live4Life]

Dude... my school charges WAAAAY too much in tuition for me to ever want to reach a 150k salary cap.

I'm going into medicine for a number of reasons. Some of them involve the "higher calling" aspect, but I also want to make sure my family is taken care of financially.

If I graduate with like 250k of debt I hope I can someday make enough to have it all paid off..... 100k a year doesn't go as far as it used to.

You all are missing what I said, that tuition would be capped at $6,000 per year due to subsidies from the federal government. This is exactly how it is done in Europe, Australia, and so on. Thus, spazz's arguement of being $300,000 in debt and yours of being $250,000 in debt shouldn't even be considered when considering the salary cap I proposed because the max you would be in debt is $24,000 for your entire medical school tution! In Australia, they even have a stipend program for older individuals that provides you with money for living expenses (granted you have to be older than 23 so that they know you are independent from your parents).

 

[slim78]

and what, not have to ever worry about your billing, insurance, and patient claims? cuz someone else will take care of that for you as well?

I really do think there is a difference though. Yes there are business aspects in ANY job, but if you don't go into private practice you don't have to deal with it as much. Right? I mean I'm not an expert, but this seems like a pretty fair assumption.

This is one of the reasons I am leaning heavily toward emergency medicine. I wouldn't mind being a hospital employee and not having to worry about the many business decisions associated with being in private practice. I am just not business inclined.

 

[Doc Henry]

and what, not have to ever worry about your billing, insurance, and patient claims? cuz someone else will take care of that for you as well?

haha...so maybe I over simplified it a bit. Of course I need an understanding of "businessy stuff", but it isn't what I would want as my primary career.

But aren't you guys missing something the poster said. I thought there was mention about tuition being subsidized and only around $6000....of course its all hypothetical, and of course all of us are going to have crazy debt, so an income cap wouldn't really be feasible (unless somehow our debt was forgiven)....

I don't know, it is really discouraging because change just doesn't really seem possible...I mean, our generation really can't afford to have an income cap, but how can we impose an income cap to just a certain population of doctors. Or impose any change to just a certain population for that matter...bleh, it all sucks

 

[spazzz]

You all are missing what I said, that tuition would be capped at $6,000 per year due to subsidies from the federal government. This is exactly how it is done in Europe, Australia, and so on. Thus, spazz's arguement of being $300,000 in debt and yours of being $250,000 in debt shouldn't even be considered when considering the salary cap I proposed because the max you would be in debt is $24,000 for your entire medical school tution! In Australia, they even have a stipend program for older individuals that provides you with money for living expenses (granted you have to be older than 23 so that they know you are independent from your parents).

eu and australia also have forms of socialized medicine which we don't have here in the states.


another thing, good luck telling the doc's now making a mil that their salary is cut to 150k a year. the medical field has big lobbyists as well, thus why it's hard to get socialized medicine in the states.

haha...so maybe I over simplified it a bit. Of course I need an understanding of "businessy stuff", but it isn't what I would want as my primary career.

But aren't you guys missing something the poster said. I thought there was mention about tuition being subsidized and only around $6000....of course its all hypothetical, and of course all of us are going to have crazy debt, so an income cap wouldn't really be feasible (unless somehow our debt was forgiven)....

I don't know, it is really discouraging because change just doesn't really seem possible...I mean, our generation really can't afford to have an income cap, but how can we impose an income cap to just a certain population of doctors. Or impose any change to just a certain population for that matter...bleh, it all sucks

the sad thing is, if you run a private practice, you'll be doing much more businessy stuff that you even know how to do.

 

[slim78]

You all are missing what I said, that tuition would be capped at $6,000 per year due to subsidies from the federal government. This is exactly how it is done in Europe, Australia, and so on. Thus, spazz's arguement of being $300,000 in debt and yours of being $250,000 in debt shouldn't even be considered when considering the salary cap I proposed because the max you would be in debt is $24,000 for your entire medical school tution! In Australia, they even have a stipend program for older individuals that provides you with money for living expenses (granted you have to be older than 23 so that they know you are independent from your parents).

You caught me. I must admit I didn't read your post very thoroughly. I usually just skim through these things.

While I do like the idea of not being as heavily in debt, I hate the idea of more government involvement. I'll have to think about this.....

 

[Live4Life]

You caught me. I must admit I didn't read your post very thoroughly. I usually just skim through these things.

While I do like the idea of not being as heavily in debt, I hate the idea of more government involvement. I'll have to think about this.....

Less government involvement = good, less for-profit involvement = good. I completely agree, which is why I think health insurance should be handled by a non-profit organization that doesn't have to answer to shareholders who throw a fit if earning projections are off by $0.03 per share for one quarter. For instance, the CEO of a certain health care insurance company took home over $500 mil over a 5 year period. Instead of padding the pockets of CEOs, this money could be spent on providing treatment. I am a strong supporter of free markets and capitalism, but there is something inside of me that plays this tug of war with my conscience that says its not right to play "lets see who can make the most money" when it comes down to affecting the quantity and quality of peoples lives. I know some will argue that capitalism drives innovation, but I would like to think that since we are dealing with the issue of human life, that people would be just as driving by altrustic factors as monetary gains. A $150,000 a year is still a very respectable amount of money to make and anyone should be able to live comfortably off of that amount of income if they know how to properly manage their finances. If it isn't enough, then the other spouse can work. Do you realize what some people would do for a $150k salary?

Does anyone just wish we could scrap the entire system, pretend the current health care system never existed and start from scratch? You are absolutely right that the doctor making $1 mil a year is going to reject taking such a huge salary cut, which is why we need a new breed of doctors who are willing to serve the people. Those making $1 mil a year will eventually retire. There is no easy solution, I just think that if we didn't have such high tuition, we could lower the salary of doctors somewhat (Run a 20 year project of income taking into account the reduced salary with less debt you will actually come out much ahead of the indivdual with a higher salary and much higher debt in the long run if you save your money and allow the magic of compounding to run its course), we could significantly reduce the cost of providing health care, while reducing barriers to access, and in return reducing the health disparities so evident in our country.

 

[spazzz]

don't be fooled. as mentioned in the RVU thread that was closed down, for-profit, not for profit, and non profit are just tax status. capitalism is what we're going for here.

 

[Doc Henry]

the sad thing is, if you run a private practice, you'll be doing much more businessy stuff that you even know how to do.

Actually, I do know how much businessy stuff is involved with running a private practice, which is one of the many reasons I am not currently interested in it. I am headed towards academic medicine...things can change, but overall I see myself working for someone else, most likely at a teaching hospital

 

[metalmd06]

I'm someone who doesn't necessarily care about money. All I want to do is medicine, and I do believe it is a "calling" for me, therefore, I am willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be a physician. I don't care about making a mil or even half or a quarter of a mil a year. I just want to be financially stable, to have job security and to live comfortably. It's really becoming more difficult this day in age for physicians to do so, and that's not fair. With the amount of hard work and training that is necessary, I expect adequate compensation. Not only is medicine a calling, but it is an investment I'm willing to make in order to secure the future of myself and my family.

Here's my big beef with the insurance companies:
Let's say you walk into a store in need of an item. You are the payor and the vendor is providing that item, or service, to you at what they believe is a fair market price. You pick up that item and bring it to the cash register and ask how much it costs, to which the cashier replies, $200.00. You really need this item, but you think it costs to much. Reluctantly, but consciously, you shell over the dough and immediatley put that item to use.

Now, if you were an insurance company:
You would say to the cashier that you object to the cost of said item, and you say that you will take a few minutes to offer what you think is an appropriate price. The vendor knows what it takes to manufacture, ship, store and display this item, so they think that their price is fair. But you're persistant. You would be able to say that for some reason or another, that the item is worth say, $90.00, and then take it at that price.

Or you would say that you fully object to the cost of said item and that you will not pay for it. Instead of putting it down and leaving the store, you take it out with you. This is theft. But the item is free, because you said you didn't agree to pay for it.

This is how insurance compaines work and they pocket every cent that they don't pay doctors and other healthcare professionals. They line the pockets of legislators through lobbyists and their CEOs make millions while Mary can't get a liver transplant because it is too risky or it wasn't pre-authorized or because the fee is excessive or because it's too experimental.

The government and physicians need to author a fee schedule that is to be adopted by all private insurance companies. The fee shedule would be objectively created by healthcare professionals and fine-tuned by specialists in order to establish the fair value of a treatment or procedure. If the insurance company does not supply irrefuteable evidence that the treatment or procedure is not necessary, they cannot deny the bill. Simple as that. If they do, the government hits them with a fine and orders them to pay it. Summarily, premiums would skyrocket because the CEO is no longer making 10 mil. The government will then provide state subsidies to help people to pay for insurance.

 

[Omashu]

In my mind - to be rich means that there is someone else out there who is suffering.

I just want to have a lifestyle where I have money to pay the bills - and because and the 10 years of school I put in have a little more.

I want a decent running car, respectable. Be able to put my own kids through college. I just want the means to do these things. But, no I don't want to be filthy rich.

On average, does anyone know how long it takes a doctor to pay the $150,000 tuition?

Let's say $200,000 to be realtic (some school's tuition is $40,000 per year x 4 = 160,000 and $40,000 for living expenses).

To pay off in 10 years means pay $20,000 per year (roughly 1700.00 per month)

Take home pay after taxes for a starting physician $100,000 - 20,000 = $80,000

How much is insurance???? (saying $20K, but I have NO idea)

$80,000 - $20,000???= $60,000

It is kinda low...I'm sure the insurance is higher.

Running a practice/buisness - has it's costly expenses....

Say you have a spouse, 3 kids, a dog - and a $1800.00/month mortgage (I don't have one of those yet) The home alone is $22,000 per year.

60-20 = 40,000

Savings-How much to save?

I'm having a hard time with all this I only make 30K per year minus $6,000 -
Take home 24,000. Right now, both my husband and I work full time

If I made $150,000 I think I would be happy.

(Please no one get mad at me, just voicing my oppinion and thinking out loud)

I know I'm missing other factors. If so, please educate me.

 

[spazzz]

your income tax is low and your living expenses are also low.

they say, every $1 your borrow, you pay back 2$. So 150-200k, quickly turns to 300-400k total.

 

[Omashu]

Sorry Doc Henry....veering slightly off course of your thread topic.

Yeah!!! Insurance Companies S**cks monkey balls!!!

I'm with you Tex!!! Let's cut off your insurance agent's head and throw it in the river

 

[VALSALVA]

In my mind - to be rich means that there is someone else out there who is suffering.

Admirable, but not true. Your financial status is not caused by some else's suffering. It's affected by your level of education, your work ethic, your intelligence, who you know, and luck. Not necessarily in that order. Also, if you're missing any one of these all the others might not matter...if you think about it.

I just want to have a lifestyle where I have money to pay the bills - and because and the 10 years of school I put in have a little more.

You've got to think about retirement, kid's education, charity, unexpected illness, etc.

I want a decent running car, respectable. Be able to put my own kids through college. I just want the means to do these things. But, no I don't want to be filthy rich.

Never mind of the kids through college thing.

On average, does anyone know how long it takes a doctor to pay the $150,000 tuition?

Let's say $200,000 to be realtic (some school's tuition is $40,000 per year x 4 = 160,000 and $40,000 for living expenses).

To pay off in 10 years means pay $20,000 per year (roughly 1700.00 per month)

Way too liberal here. Plus you're forgetting about acruing interest as you continue to pay off the debt. At this very moment, I have a consolidated loan amount of $201,548.42. I'm scheduled to begin making payments on that loan in 2010 (when I graduate from residency) and I'll be on the 15 year plan. With my current interest rate, which is really good, I'll end up paying out $380,000 on an original loan amount of 190,000'ish.

Take home pay after taxes for a starting physician $100,000 - 20,000 = $80,000

How much is insurance???? (saying $20K, but I have NO idea)

$80,000 - $20,000???= $60,000

It is kinda low...I'm sure the insurance is higher.

Running a practice/buisness - has it's costly expenses....

Say you have a spouse, 3 kids, a dog - and a $1800.00/month mortgage (I don't have one of those yet) The home alone is $22,000 per year.

60-20 = 40,000

Savings-How much to save?

I'm having a hard time with all this I only make 30K per year minus $6,000 -
Take home 24,000. Right now, both my husband and I work full time

If I made $150,000 I think I would be happy.

(Please no one get mad at me, just voicing my oppinion and thinking out loud)

I know I'm missing other factors. If so, please educate me.

You didn't pay enough tax according to your calculation. Federal tax on 100,000 puts you in the 25% tax bracket. If you husband worked, your tax precentage would probably be higher. Plus, you didn't include state income tax.

 

[Omashu]

VALSALVA, thanks for the insight. Since your living the life (400K+ in loans),
What kinda salary would you be comfortable with? Do you think there's a health care crisis in our country? What are your feelings on the insurance companies?

"Admirable, but not true. Your financial status is not caused by some else's suffering. It's affected by your level of education, your work ethic, your intelligence, who you know, and luck. Not necessarily in that order. Also, if you're missing any one of these all the others might not matter...if you think about it."

I hope your right....but so far it's not working out for me.

I still think that people who become rich (not all, but alot) had to steal, connive, manipulate....and therefore there are others who where in left in the aftermath of greed. I have thought about it



.

 

[Gold 5]

I hate being poor and I hate our piece of #%@$ "insurance company", if you want to call them that. We pay however many hundred dollars a month, but when we really need something, do you think it is sufficiently covered? Hell no!!!!

My husband has had an auto immune disorder for most of his life but it is now worse than ever, so we finally went to a specialist to get him on some meds. We found some great funding for the medication where they give you a months free medication and 4800 bucks a year toward copays....Well guess what? Our copay is $1400 A MONTH...WTF??? We got all excited that he might be able to start living a normal life again, and our hopes just got crushed....😡

I really just want to throw my hands up and give up...between financial stress, mcat stress/application stress, school stress, recently losing other family members and facing a future where two more could be gone soon (not my husband), all the while not trying to stress out our 10 year old son, it all just adds up to be too much sometimes...

I know we all have our own battles, nobody has a perfect life, but sometimes I just get that feeling that I am getting a pretty large share of crap to deal with....

Oh well, at least the adcoms wont have to worry about whether I have "real life" experience...have to laugh about it somehow, or I'll cry🙁

/end pitty party

I am sorry to hear that. Did you ask your doctor if there is anything on the market that is cheaper?

 

[spazzz]

I still think that people who become rich (not all, but alot) had to steal, connive, manipulate....and therefore there are others who where in left in the aftermath of greed.
.

thats people who are wealthy, rich people can be self made.

 

[Live4Life]

You didn't pay enough tax according to your calculation. Federal tax on 100,000 puts you in the 25% tax bracket. If you husband worked, your tax precentage would probably be higher. Plus, you didn't include state income tax.

25% tax bracket doesn't mean that you pay 25% on all of the income, only after a certain amount. (Actually $100k is in the 28% bracket, but you only pay 28% on the money above $77,101 if you are single). Also, you are able to claim the amount of interest accrued each year on your loan (as well as your home loan) as a deduction on your tax return.

 

[Omashu]

ehh....there's really a difference?

 

[spazzz]

ehh....there's really a difference?

Wealth will set us ****ing free, okay? 'Cause wealth is empowering, wealth can uplift communities from poverty, okay? A white man gets wealthy, he builds Wal-Marts and makes other white people have some mother****ing money. A brother gets rich, he buys some mother****ing jewelry. Shaq is rich. The white man who signs his check... is wealthy. 'Ahh here you go Shaq, go buy yourself a bouncing car. Bling bling!'

so yeah, there is a difference

 

[Gold 5]

Off the track of the original post but I couldn't resist.

VALSALVA, thanks for the insight. Since your living the life (400K+ in loans),
What kinda salary would you be comfortable with? Do you think there's a health care crisis in our country? What are your feelings on the insurance companies?

"Admirable, but not true. Your financial status is not caused by some else's suffering. It's affected by your level of education, your work ethic, your intelligence, who you know, and luck. Not necessarily in that order. Also, if you're missing any one of these all the others might not matter...if you think about it."

I hope your right....but so far it's not working out for me.

I still think that people who become rich (not all, but alot) had to steal, connive, manipulate....and therefore there are others who where in left in the aftermath of greed. I have thought about it



.

Who says it is not working out for you? You mentioned your son earlier, if you are raising your son correctly teaching him well about hard work, is that not a goal greater than a fancy home? I know quite a few "rich folk" who's kids are absolute screw ups from drugs, etc. Which shoes would you like to be in?

You are right some folks do become rich by stealing, conniving, etc but that is also one of the quickest ways to go to jail and loose it all. On the other hand I know a lot of poor folks who do the same thing.

My point is if you want to be rich, work on a plan to get there. If your plan isn't working out, modify it until it does. It will not be easy and may require a lifetime to get there but it is certainly doable. Also, medicine may not be the best avenue to reach that goal.

 

[VALSALVA]

VALSALVA, thanks for the insight. Since your living the life (400K+ in loans),
What kinda salary would you be comfortable with?

Well it's 200K in loans like I said, but my final payout will be close to 400K - more if I stretch my payment plan out to 20, 25, or 30 years. FYI - because my consolidated interest rate is so low (3.5%), it would behove me to take advantage of the 30 year repayment plan and use the extra money to invest in ANYTHING getting over 3.5 percent. Ask 10 financial planners what they would do and 9 would agree with me. It's scary to think about taking 30 years to pay things off but it makes the most financial sense.

What kind of salary would I be comfortable with? That's the wrong question. The real question is: what is the salary I command given my qualifications? That's what I want. That's what I'd be comfortable with.

Do you think there's a health care crisis in our country?

No. The healthcare is just fine...in fact it's great. I do think there's a lawsuit crisis in our country. People are way too eager to sue. Everyone's lost on the definition of malpractice (it doesn't mean a bad outcome), and the tort laws are WAY to friendly to the accuser and his/her attorney. By proxy, there's an insurance crisis b/c insurers are scared shi*less about getting hammered by the big 9-figure lawsuit. Instead, they're getting nickled and dimed to death via all the settlements. Insurers can afford to pay out on settlements because they can survive a slow cash hemorrhage. The big quick large hemorrhage is fatal.

What are your feelings on the insurance companies?

See above. They behave as expected. Our legal system depends on the good will of the populace. Because so many people have lost touch with, don't care about or never learned that concept, all it takes is a persuasive lawyer, a good persuasive hired physician and a child in a wheel chair and you've bought yourself a jury. Insurance companies behave accordingly.

I hope your right....but so far it's not working out for me.

I still think that people who become rich (not all, but alot) had to steal, connive, manipulate....and therefore there are others who where in left in the aftermath of greed. I have thought about it.

Now see...I think this is really sad. You really think that "a lot" of rich people had to steal, connive and manipulate? I'd put those folks in a small minority. Take Enron for instance...probably the most infamous financial bust in a long time. Enron had lots of employees that were "rich" but had absolutely nothing to do with the stealing, conniving and manipulating - most of the board, junior executives, managers, mid-level managers, etc. I have no idea how many "rich" employees the company had but there were what...5 guilty people in the whole joint? Maybe 3??

Greed. Do you think only rich people are greedy? You need to come down to my Emergency department some time. There's an inverse correlation between income and demand of handouts/heir of entitlement. Everyone has a streak of greed in them but, in my experience, it's the "have nots" that are far more greedy.

 

[VALSALVA]

25% tax bracket doesn't mean that you pay 25% on all of the income, only after a certain amount. (Actually $100k is in the 28% bracket, but you only pay 28% on the money above $77,101 if you are single). Also, you are able to claim the amount of interest accrued each year on your loan (as well as your home loan) as a deduction on your tax return.

This is true, but she still underestimated. Tax on 100,000 was 17,000+ last year. Assuming her husband worked, her federal tax would be as least
20,000 not including state tax. Hence my claim of underestimation.

 

[Omashu]

GOLD 5

I guess if I was rich that would be nice, but no that is not my goal. I've read the threads about hey....you can make more money is business...

I've got several reasons why I would like to be a doctor - and becoming rich is not one of them.

ACTUALLY, the POINT OF THIS THREAD is one of them....people suffering more than they have to because the insurance companies are not considering the procedures medically necessary.

As future doctors, the fact of health care reform is underway and we must discuss questions such as "Would a starting pay at $100,000 be okay with you"...

Sorry that this thread got off track and but I gave my oppinion and I got flamed and thats okay.

 

[Doc Henry]

I am sorry to hear that. Did you ask your doctor if there is anything on the market that is cheaper?

Oh yea. We've exhausted everything that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The only few options we have left cost 15-25k per year...just our luck that our insurance has horrible pharmaceutical coverage

 

[Wylde]

Cut off your insurance agent's head and throw it in the river.

darn, I think that is illegal in Wisconsin 🙁

haha jp

 

[Live4Life]

I hate being poor and I hate our piece of #%@$ "insurance company", if you want to call them that. We pay however many hundred dollars a month, but when we really need something, do you think it is sufficiently covered? Hell no!!!!

My husband has had an auto immune disorder for most of his life but it is now worse than ever, so we finally went to a specialist to get him on some meds. We found some great funding for the medication where they give you a months free medication and 4800 bucks a year toward copays....Well guess what? Our copay is $1400 A MONTH...WTF??? We got all excited that he might be able to start living a normal life again, and our hopes just got crushed....😡

I really just want to throw my hands up and give up...between financial stress, mcat stress/application stress, school stress, recently losing other family members and facing a future where two more could be gone soon (not my husband), all the while not trying to stress out our 10 year old son, it all just adds up to be too much sometimes...

I know we all have our own battles, nobody has a perfect life, but sometimes I just get that feeling that I am getting a pretty large share of crap to deal with....

Oh well, at least the adcoms wont have to worry about whether I have "real life" experience...have to laugh about it somehow, or I'll cry🙁

/end pitty party

Sorry for leading this thread off topic, but ask your doctor if there are any non-biological DMARDs that your husband can take since the non-biological ones are MUCH less expensive. While they may not be quite as effective, they can still be VERY helpful. DO NOT TAKE THIS AS MEDICAL ADVICE, I AM NOT A DOCTOR.

 

[Omashu]

VALSALVA,

::::SIGH::::

(We've discussed a lot here) Where should I start....

Maybe I am using the wrong terminology, words, whatever....but when I think of health care reform....I think of patients falling through the cracks for a myriad of reasons.....

SOME PATIENTS CAN NOT pay the bills: co pays, RX's, hospital bills... therefore do not go to checkups, follow ups, etc.....and get sicker.

Another example of the need of health care reform would be Doc Henry's original post. That's awful that her family has to shell out that kinda of money.....she may not be able to...and then her husband has to SUFFER.

And after her original post, there were others to follow.

If this is what’s happening to so many people (which it is).....WHERE"S THE MONEY GOING....to someone! Someone's getting paid CRAZY amounts of money.

Why does the hospital charge $10.00 for a freaken band aid (exaggerating slightly but not much)....The INS company gets paid this. WHERE"S THE MONEY GOING TO???

Malpractice Lawsuits....fine. There still needs to be some sort of reform due to my reasons above. It's a vicious cycle. I don't have the answer though.

That is why I evolved with the statement "to be rich means that there is someone else out there who is suffering." An insurance company receives billions while the people who are paying continue to suffer financially to the excessive charges.

I don't know why this is the case why does Doc Henry, T-Funk, Punkmedgirl, Jamers, myself etc, etc, etc... Have to go through this ****. For example....If you have a fixed income and after paying your bills.....say the most you can afford is $100.00 per week for food...and then something happens you need to see a physician....Some people have to contemplate...FOOD OR CO-PAY. Have you ever had to make that decision? I have.....and it s**ks.

Therefore, I am up for a lower pay if someone else...Like Doc can get what she needs for her husband if it helps her family and not have to worry...and stress out her children.

NO it's NOT Greed, it's holding onto so desperately to the little money you got left. That's why some of these people in the ER seem greedy to you maybe...Cause their desperate, and constantly ripped off....Not everyone in your ER has sued a doctor or hospital....some of them just fund the ins co.

 

[t-funk]

NO it's NOT Greed, it's holding onto so desperately to the little money you got left. That's why some of these people in the ER seem greedy to you maybe...Cause their desperate, and constantly ripped off....Not everyone in your ER has sued a doctor or hospital....some of them just fund the ins co.

Omashu, I agree with everything you have said especially this last paragraph, I just wore out trying to say these things on these forums a long time ago. Thanks for having the energy I no longer have. I know that a lot of people think that these people should just find better jobs, but good jobs are limited and if those people were to get educated and get a better job, they would just push someone else out of that job and into povery. I am just ecstatic that it is not me struggling in minimum wage being the loser in the game of the American Dream. Yes, there are other factors involved including cultural and economic issues and will and determination, but there is a certain amount of greed involved in winning the game too. One way or another, people are tired of feeling like they're being ripped off everytime they turn around and another entity is trying to get in their pockets and suck the life out of them. I believe this is finally spreading to the educated middle class and people will begin to cry out. At least I hope so.