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Washington Post: Why are Dentists So Darn Rich

Discussion in 'Dental' started by WIinNC, Jul 30, 2015.

  1. WIinNC

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    THS and uhds like this.
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  3. uhds

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    I was waiting for something like this to come around. o_O
     
  4. oralcare123

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  5. THS

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    And not once do they mention the fact that the money in dentistry comes from owning a practice, not from being employed by another. The number of owner-dentists in proportion to associate dentists is way different than the number of owner family physicians to employed family physicians.

    And since when is it a crime to make money? They take the fact that there is a public uproar against this dentist, and then they exploit the public's hate of this guy to include the entire profession. You'll never an article called "Why do ship welders make over 100k?!"
     
  6. jeffk805dent

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    I find it odd journalists have the time to constantly bash dentists and doctors but turn a blind eye to all the insane benefits Congressmen and Wall St. executives get.
     
  7. Incis0r

    Incis0r I LOVE Dental School
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    Where does the dentist say that the money to fund his hunting trip came from income from being a dentist? I mean, he could have gotten a large inheritance, had a trust, done well in the stock market, married rich, or lived really frugally/saved up over a long time for this dream... and that's how he could have afforded this trip.

    To me, this article author's intention is as follows:
    1. Dentists make a ton of money. It's unheard of for a dentist to make below 200K.
    2. I hate dentists from personal experience. They cause me pain.
    3. I want to smear dentists.
    4. Oh look, a dentist did something that so many other people do...he went on a hunting trip..., but let's use it as an excuse to target their income...you know, the one they spent four years of education in and (some) a half a million dollars to obtain
    5. Btw, I won't mention their loans or sacrifices (you know, like making dental school the highest priority in life for four years...taking so many standardized exams to get it and through), or the fact that dentists do a lot of pro-bono work in the US and overseas. I won't even consider mentioning the health hazards and stress associated with dentistry...After all, they caused me pain and must be greedy people. Let me post online, create a ruckus, and become popular.

    Okay, rant over. back to DAT Prep.
     
    #6 Incis0r, Jul 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
  8. pathwizard

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    Well, considering a 16 y/o wrote it... what can you expect
     
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  9. oralcare123

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    Tooth ache will be a payback to all dentist haters
     
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  10. DaleDoback

    DaleDoback Did you touch my drumset?
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    Read the comments at the end of the story. I'm sick at my stomach. We are surrounded by idiots.
     
  11. wildzodiac

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    Dentists generally make a comfortable amount of income because cost of care is high.

    Cost of care is high due IN PART because of debt incurred in dental school.

    Dentists incur a lot of debt because dental school is expensive.

    Dental school is expensive because federal student loans are relatively easy to get. If students are guaranteed X amount of dollars, then schools will charge X amount of dollars. Over time, this relationship in part raises the cost of dental school attendence.

    So overall, dentists generally make a comfortable income PARTLY due federal student funds being so easy to get.
     
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  12. yappy

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    It is the mind virus known as leftism.
     
  13. Miley Cyrus.

    Miley Cyrus. Eat. Sleep. Twerk.
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    I think it reflects the culture and attitude of our population. People got no problem shelling out $500 for sports tickets or a drunken trip to Vegas, but they demand and expect and believe they are entitled to cheap (and even free) dental care. Dentists and doctors are easy targets, but Taylor Swift and Kobe Bryant making millions is okay because its what makes a lot of nutcases in this country supremely happy. This jerk author who wrote this knows this and is playing to this prevailing attitude in our country.
     
  14. THS

    THS Articulating Disc Jockey
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    I agree with you, but I would also argue that dental school is expensive mainly because the demand is there. There are enough people that want to be a dentist that they will pay a quarter of a million dollars to become one. Take into consideration that some of the most expensive schools (the private schools) have the lowest admission requirements/stats. I'm not saying that they are bad schools, at all. I'm just saying that they know that people that don't have the scores to get into cheaper schools won't mind paying up to twice the amount to get into their school.

    Imagine some kind of healthcare reform where dental insurances are replaced by a standardized program that covers people for $X amount. Dentists become less compensated for the same amount of work as the previous generation, the dental field becomes less appealing to undergraduates, less people apply to dental school, and dental schools lose money. To compensate, they will lower the standards of admission and the tuition to make more people apply.

    The appeal of dentistry as a career is what is driving the high tuition, which in turn results in high fees/compensation, which again leads to high tuition. It's a self-supporting system.
     
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  15. setdoc7

    Dentist 10+ Year Member

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  16. setdoc7

    Dentist 10+ Year Member

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    Dental school is expensive because it is not that different from when I went. The system needs to be revamped and brought into the 21st century.
     
  17. italianstallion2008

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    I think I'm most fond of his proposal to save patients money on costly fillings by just having a hygienist place sealants instead. This guy really knows what he's talking about...
     
  18. yappy

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    It's all of higher education. Though, if we're going to be really critical, the idea that high tuition drives high dental costs is an incorrect one. The market doesn't care about your student loans. Indeed, patients don't pay a higher bill to newer graduates who have lots of loans and less of a bill for those who went in the 90s or got into their state school. It an incorrect assumption that leads to an inaccurate conclusion that in order to reduce the price of dental services we must reduce tuition - they're not related. Graduates are finding out, in all fields, that educational costs are not related to earnings.

    I think the main reason that all tuition is raising so rapidly is because of unlimited lending from our federal government to prospective students. When anyone can secure a loan for greater and greater sums of money higher ed has, and will, respond by raising prices to collect it.
     
  19. oralcare123

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    I worked for 6 years as a dental assistant in Canada. I think I was the only one, who placed sealants properly. Most of the time it was just sloppy job to bill 10$ per tooth. They could have their fillings placed by plumbers, I really do not care
     
  20. Daurang

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    I have a bunch of patients retired at 38 cause they worked for the government only 20 years. My (and soon your) 50% total tax rate is paying for their fat pension and premium healthcare for the next 50 years. Now's that's rich!!! Where's the outrage from the mainstream media?

    Who's paying for dental students' $500,000 school debt and dentists' retirement fund? Where's the sympathy from the mainstream media?

    And why is this one lion story such important 24/7 news? Did ISIS stopped chopping heads off? Did Hillary found her missing emails? Did Russia stopped invading Ukraine? Did the Chinese stock market recovered? Talk about dumbing down of a population.
     
    #19 Daurang, Jul 31, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015
  21. diasIItema

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    A lot of students at my dental school got worked up about this article. Why?

    It is brazenly clear the "journalist" for "Wonkblog" wrote an article with clear expectation/confirmation biases without doing any actual objective research. If this had been a NYT op-ed with some sort of salary capitation or political agenda, then dentist rebuttal would be warranted. But it's just an ignorant response to media sensationalism that dentists don't need to entertain, especially with silly social media diatribes.

    My point is that a lot of people in dental school seem to be VERY concerned with validation of the profession. If you're not happy treating patients while working 4-days a week and earning an income in the top 2% of US wage earners because you still feel the need to constantly justify yourself for more "respect" or "appreciation," then you're not in the right profession. Your job as a dentist is to improve patient and population oral health, not to necessarily feel appreciated for your service. I know a firefighter who wasn't thanked for his service in over 30 years of work, in which he risked his life everyday, yet he still did his job b/c he knows it's a necessary one. And he doesn't get paid six figures for a 36 hour work week...
     
  22. jeffk805dent

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    you do bring up a good point. One dentist I know seems more concerned about the condition of his Porsche than really giving excellent dental care.

    Before I get verbally lynched on SDN, I'm all for dentists getting compensated well within reasonable conditions but some dentists need to stop acting they're entitled to be as wealthy as the Saudi royal family.
     
  23. yappy

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    False premise; very few dentists are rich and everyone is entitled to their compensation as long as transactions are voluntary.
     
  24. tooth knockn

    tooth knockn Treat others how you want to be treated
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    Hopefully some light is placed on these ridiculous dental school tuitions some dental schools have....
     
  25. TexasBoy1

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    Do yall think the government allows unlimited lending so that they can make profit because many students are taking 15 to 30 years to service obscene student loans with much of the payback being interest? Otherwise I don't see why the government doesn't just cap graduate loans or at least find someway to limit what schools can and can't charge. Some private undergraduate cost of attendances are reaching 70 racks and some professional schools (ahem some dental schools) are well over a 100 thou, which is absolutely rediculous. The student debt bubble is bout to blow...
     
    #24 TexasBoy1, Aug 1, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015
  26. Miley Cyrus.

    Miley Cyrus. Eat. Sleep. Twerk.
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    I am not expecting to be put on a pedestal as a dentist in terms of respect. I would like people to treat me as they would treat any other human being. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting that. I respect everyone who is dedicated to their job.

    I think that if we are going to have a discussion about how to improve healthcare efficiency, cost, and quality for all segments of the population (a discussion we should have), it is necessary to get our facts out to the public and make sure that people who lack qualifications and who lack the knowledge to comment on healthcare (such as the writer of this Washington Post article) are appropriately confronted when offering foolish distortions of reality. As healthcare professionals, it is our responsibility to educate the public about the facts (as doctors have done with the fraud Dr. Oz). This author constantly peddled the idea that somehow mid-levels are the answer to lowering dental costs for people. Did he mention the education of these advanced dental therapists? Some of them can do fillings with only 2 years of education after high school. Why didn't he inform the public about that? He harps and harps about the cost of dental care and likes to shovel the blame on it to dentist income, but does he have any concern about the quality of dental care being performed by these therapists? There is a lot of misinformation and exaggerations in the media. As a healthcare professional, it is my responsibility to confront this.

    Also, dentists are NOT rich. They are NOT in the top 2% as diasIItema stated. According to the article, the government lists the median salary for a general dentist at $149,310. This puts us in the top 10%, NOT the top 2%. Let's not forget the astronomical student loans that people accumulate and the fact that the student can only tax deduct the interest accumulated on the monthly loan payment, not the entire monthly loan payment.
     
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  27. swindoll

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    Love this comment so much!
     
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  28. That's the moral lens our legal system is rightly based on. But just because it's legal it doesn't make it right. Especially when that "voluntary" choice is made because our profession has power over limiting the consumer's alternatives.

    It's not the patients' fault that they don't have options. It's not the patients' fault that the unnecessary idiosyncrasies of dental education and student loan debt are making things more costly for them. It's not the patients' fault that dentists have a tribal aversion to working in groups and reducing overhead.

    Every single one of those problems would streamline themselves if dentists had more competition.

    I agree that the author isn't well informed. I agree that it isn't just dentists' fault. I agree that there are bigger issues in this country than well-educated providers being well-compensated. But it doesn't justify making excuses for obvious wastes of resources.

    I'm taking a test this Friday on AC circuits. So I can go to dental school. So I can fix teeth. Our professional track is obviously bloated, and deserves competition.
     
  29. diasIItema

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    Bro, that's reported income. The vast majority of general dentists and specialists net significantly higher income than $150k after a few years of practice. The ADA has more accurate figures. I know starting SALARIES at $140k in my area. Also, the ADA reports that it is not taking dentists any longer to pay off their loans (average of 10 years) despite exponential increases in debt, which just tells me that costs are being shifted to patients.

    Rich is a relative term. Relative to the vast majority of Americans, dentists are rich.

    Dentists may not seem rich to a lot of pre-dents or dental students, b/c unfortunately the prohibitive cost of attendance is creating a selection bias that favors middle-upper middle class students who may have grown up in financially privileged households. Less than 3% of medical/dental students come from the bottom 20% of US household wealth, and that will only continue to exacerbate as tuition continues to inflate.
     
    #28 diasIItema, Aug 2, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2015
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  30. DentalLonghorn2014

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    Watch, the author was pre-dent at one time and never really got over a rejection letter. Just my 0.02. Literally. Because I'm still a broke college student.
     
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  31. yappy

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    It wasn't so much a legal distinction as much as it was an ethical one; voluntary trade is predicated on each party netting an increase in wealth from the transaction.

    Educational requirements don't increase costs to consumers. Indeed, nurses in many states are paid the same amount as physicians when they perform services - they didn't offer a lesser price and physicians adjusted - they now both provide services at the historic physician-only-price. There is tons of competition in every medium/larger city in the US to deliver dental services. There is no indication increasing supply will bring costs down as supply is already in excess in most cases; and, empirically the physician:nurse solution has been a failure.
    Learning basic physics (lets face it you're not becoming an electrical engineer) is fundamental to dentistry and is about as idiosyncratic as accountants needing to understand math. You will use that knowledge routinely in practice.
     
    #30 yappy, Aug 2, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2015
  32. You are right about voluntary trade. But my point is that dentists have made it less than voluntary because the patient has to see a DDS or DMD to fix a cavity. There's an oversupply, yes... but only of one kind of practitioner, who wants to live in cities, who expects a certain level of reimbursement based in part on the years of difficult education they completed. That's the problem. There's an oversupply. Of one kind of product.

    In other words: the ADA has a study that says it's not about supply, it's about cost. Well, the Minnesota Department of Health finds that dental therapists demand roughly half the salary that dentists do (page 20). What does that mean? It means there is a problem with the supply: not how much of a supply but what kind of a supply.

    I'm not suggesting that dentists aren't valuable. They provide enormous value and I think I will appreciate the work. But there needs to be a continuum of options available for the sake of public health. Apple shouldn't be able to stop people from buying Chromebooks if that's all they need. And the simplicity on low end of the market puts pressure on the high end to justify the value they add. If dentists actually provide unique value relative to other kinds of practitioners, they have little to fear.

    Do you really think dentists use even basic physics as much as accountants use math? Come on :) It's fundamental... to the dentist's private intellectual appreciation of oral health. It would be nice if all service providers has a doctoral level of understanding of their field, but in the 21st century people just want service providers who follow the best practices, handed down from the researches who do have the doctoral level understanding.
     
    #31 arkenstone, Aug 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2015
  33. oralcare123

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    Not one of you mentioned the high cost of dental materials, which in turn justifies higher cost of treatment. Companies, producing dental materials have no problems selling the same stuff 10 times cheaper in other countries. Anything, that has "dental" on it is several times more expensive, even Q-tips.
    In regards to the fact, that :

    "Dentists may not seem rich to a lot of pre-dents or dental students, b/c unfortunately the prohibitive cost of attendance is creating a selection bias that favors middle-upper middle class students who may have grown up in financially privileged households. Less than 3% of medical/dental students come from the bottom 20% of US household wealth, and that will only continue to exacerbate as tuition continues to inflate."

    The situation has nothing to do with income - unlimited loans are available to most people. It is because people with higher income in general have better education and more responcible. They raise children encouraging the desire to get better education and job , as well as to stay out of prison. Public schools are still free and community colleges are very inexpensive.

    After all being in a profession, which involves dealing with infection, blood, puss and negative emotions every day as well as being dictated by anyone of what to do and how to behave in personal life has to be compensated accordingly
     
  34. You are right to point out that the dentist's take-home pay is not the only cost to running the practice. But dental supplies seem to hover somewhere between 5% to 9% of the cost of running the business (the "cost" being all payments leaving the business, including profits). On that scale, the profits of the practice owner hover around 35% to 45%.

    You are also right that there are good reasons for dentists to be compensated well. It's not glamorous work. Dentists provide great value! I would heartily argue with anyone who wants to artificially lower any professional's pay out of jealousy, and that's often the tone you feel from articles such as the one that inspired this thread. My suspicion, however, is that dentists' income is artificially higher than it might otherwise be, because dentists have protected themselves from market forces. But... I also think dentists could reduce the cost of care and make as much if not more if they got out in front of the marketplace changes that need to be made.

    My main concerns are these:
    1) That dentists don't seem to have the maturity to partner together into practice groups, an action that saves a lot of overhead waste. The main force driving this grouping right now is corporate dentistry---but then the providers are no longer the owners, and that's not good for anyone.
    2) That dentists, via their state-provided powers, jealously guard some petty practice privileges that should otherwise be provided more cheaply by professionals with less intense training. Let the patients decide if they think a Master's degree is sufficient to fill a cavity.

    I'm not hoping for a future where dentists are diminished. On the contrary, the future I wish for is a pyramid with dentists at the top, as owners partnering together into groups and hiring therapists, hygienists, and assistants. Not only is that cost-effective delivery of care, it's also lucrative. But that's not happening. Instead, outside money is coming in to create corporate practices that follow those superior models. (Group practices do better. Practices that hire therapists do better.) As it stands, dentists are being left behind and eventually hired by those companies... because there was a quicker buck to be made in the short term with this tribal squabbling over single-owner practices and trying to stop dental therapists from drilling cavities.

    States could enforce laws that require practice owners to be dentists, but they'll only do that when dentists are willing to step up to the right business models and demonstrate that they can play ball. They're not doing that. They have their heads in the sand, with ridiculous consultant-authored books lining their bookshelves telling them how to build the practice of their dreams.
     
    #33 arkenstone, Aug 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2015
  35. oralcare123

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    If state will allow non dentists to be practice owners it will lead to a mess of corruption and unethical behavior. Obviously some dentists do unethical and even illegal things, but they are well aware of consequences to them and their patients. When stupid assistant does not clean blood and bone from the implant drill and sticks it in an autoclave they do not know better. Therapists, assistants and hygienists do well what they do now.Fillings are too complicated for their level of understanding, they are just incapable of doing a high quality job. I know from my experience, so do not try to prove me wrong.
    Group practice maybe not a bad idea, but no amount of overhead break will make overworked and overstressed men work together if they do not value each other. Personally it is less disappointing to work along. Employees are enough to handle for most dentists, but it is not a bad option
    Do not forget, that dentists are only able to practice limited number of years - this profession is very physically demanding, not long after graduation neck, back, wrist and eyesight problems appear and the only way to slow it down is to reduce the number of work hours. Everyone understands high pay for football players, because they cant play forever, but dentists must charge less
    Unfortunately increased competition and reduced pay would not lead to dental haven for patients, it will lead to irritated and overworked dentists and low quality work. Look at the situation with "per capita" insurances or medicare compensation, again I am talking from experience.
    A lot of dental applicants, students and even young dentists have those ideas of making dental treatment more affordable, but after dealing this A LOT of horrible patients they decide to abandon the idea, because they realize that very small number of people truly need help paying, most just does not want to part with sports and beer
     
  36. Yes I agree with what you say... that owners should be dentists. The problem is that this is not always being enforced because some of those non-dentist owned companies are able to provide cost-effective and lucrative care to segments of the population that privately owned practices sometimes aren't. Dentists should be doing that, and if they did they could hold on to the legal privilege of being the only owners of dental practices.

    Regardless of the morality of the situation, one thing about that article is true: things are slowly changing. I do agree that it's easier to own your practice alone. I'm sure most of us, myself included, were drawn to the field because of that example. But it doesn't matter what's easier. It matter what's going to be possible as the environment changes. There are models out there that work better than a sea of individually-owned practices. Either non-dentist-owned chains will use those models and eat dentists' lunch, or dentists will learn to coordinate care better on their own terms and keep their slice of the pie. If dentists can't learn to work together as overstressed owners, they will increasingly find themselves working together as employees.

    But the status quo is tempting. As you say, dentists practice a limited number of years, and today is a valuable thing. Both the consequences of sticking to the status quo and also the benefits of putting energy into rearranged models... they're not evident in the short term.
     
  37. CraigHack

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    If you're referring to enlisted servicemembers that joined at 18 and retired at 20 years, then I think you need to reassess the sacrifices they made, and take a look at the state of our VA healthcare system ("premium" healthcare). Also look up the pension for a 20 year E-7 (at 20 years, they get 50% of base pay for an AD E-7), and you'll see it's not much at all.
     
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  38. Miley Cyrus.

    Miley Cyrus. Eat. Sleep. Twerk.
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    Don't think he was referring to servicemembers and military. He is talking about the type like DMV workers, and secretaries at government places, etc.
     
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  39. CraigHack

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    Thought that might be the case as well, but a lot of civil service employees don't reach a pension at 20 years. May vary from state to state though.
     
  40. oralcare123

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    I have nothing good to say about corporate dentistry, so I'll say nothing at all
     
  41. Pre-Dent Jeff

    Pre-Dent Jeff Dent-Jeff
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    Burger flippers demand $15.00/ hour, but get no formal education and go into absolutely zero debt without any risk.


    Dentists sink hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get their education, then several hundred thousand more to get their practice and run it. Of course they deserve to have reward for that kind of risk!!!
     
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  42. I don't mean to prod you, but I think you misunderstand. I'm not setting up a moral distinction between two options, private dentistry and corporate dentistry. I'm saying that the future is inevitably corporate because money flows downhill, and dentists can either control that future or not. Neither of us have anything good to say about corporate dentistry---when it's owned by non-dentists. If dentists avoid partnering now, it breathes life into corporate dental practice owned by 3rd parties. If dentists get out in front of the change by partnering now, things will end up better for patients and dentists alike.

    As far as where morality comes in and where this is partially relevant to OP's article, I think there actually is a selfishness (or short-sightedness) on some dentist's part now to avoid that change now by holding on to the models to which we've all become attached... and that, counterintuitively, it will make things much worse for us down the line. I don't want future dental practices to have the convoluted ownership structures that we sometimes see in medicine today. I want dentists to build awesome practices that save resources like a 3rd party practice would (group buying on supplies, employee benefits, facilities, marketing, etc.) but that don't place treatment quotas on their personnel like a 3rd-party owned practices might do. It would show regulators that dentist-owned practices are worth protecting through legislation.

    But the dentists on the state boards who have enough clout to influence this culture only have to worry about their practices for another 15 years or so. They don't have to look through the lens we have to use---a lens that stretches out 30, 40, 50 years.
     
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  43. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member
    Dentist 10+ Year Member

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    Dentists are doing well financially because we (at least most of us) work hard for a service that is in high demand.

    We live in a world where everyone is self-conscience about their looks and well being (for the most part), and dentistry benefits from this immensely.

    Sugar has been (and will be) the most consumed and addictive substance, which means dental caries is here to stay with a growing population.

    Among other factors, dentist income will continue to remain at the current level, and even higher where dentist/populatio ratio is low.

    Tuition increases will simply ride along.
     
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  44. Daneosaurus

    5+ Year Member

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    I'm poor af. My wife and I have discussed this particular topic at length. Though I don't come from a disadvantaged background, I have not been financially reliant on my parents since I graduated high school and joined the Marine Corps, some 10 years ago. You are absolutely correct that the cost incurred is a huge barrier to admission. Most of the kids (I can't believe how young 21-22 year olds look!) I interviewed with came from families of various medical practitioners and clearly had no idea what it means to have an obstacle to overcome. It cost me ~$6000 just for the chance of acceptance. Many people of lower socioeconomic status don't even have a chance at college in the first place. It's a recapitulating cycle and is very obvious why the have-nots have a disdain for the haves. Dentists aren't rich, but they certainly aren't struggling.
     
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  45. oralcare123

    7+ Year Member

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    This is your subjective opinion. Everyone is struggling, but in their own way. Some "rich" people may ask why are you poor? You obviously worked for 10 years
    All parents need to put money aside for their children's education, not just medical practitioners. It is a well known practice, but for some reason not many parents do it, even though it is very affordable. Is it because they do not care about their children's future?
     
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  46. Bifenthrin

    2+ Year Member

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    Uh... what planet do you live on?

    It's not very affordable to throw a few hundred bucks a month into a college savings account for your kid when you literally live paycheck to paycheck. Money doesn't actually grow on trees and in some households, there are two parents each working 40+ hours a week, and they could barely afford to put food on the table, let alone save up and pay for their kids' college tuition.

    Check your privilege.
     
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  47. oralcare123

    7+ Year Member

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    Planet North America and payment is as low as $25, but it is obvious, that you did not even had an idea to encourage your children to have an education.
    If you can barely put food on the table, why do you have children? Haven't you known it takes around $250,000 to raise a child in America
    And BTW no one is asking you to pay for education in full, just save $6000 to apply to numerous dental schools
     
  48. Bifenthrin

    2+ Year Member

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    Yes, my imaginary children will not be encouraged to have an education.

    Gtfo here. Go outside of your little upper middle class bubble and take a look at the majority of Americans. Tell me that most of the people having children are ones that aren't killing themselves at work to be able to afford housing, bills, and food, with barely any extra income.
     
  49. oralcare123

    7+ Year Member

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    Why do you think I am upper middle class? That is so funny. You are talking in clichés. You think that only people working for minimum wage are working hard, everyone else are just having fun. You are mistaken. Maybe not, because you connected better education with a better pay, otherwise you would not be a dental student.
    Majority of americans, unfortunately, do not think how they are going to feed, cloth and educate their children before having them. That is why there is a problem of childhood hunger in the richest country in the world. Ok, you do not care about your children's future and want them to suffer - those are your children and it is not illegal
    In regards to my bubble - I am still laughing. I worked hard all my life, that is why I have what I have right now. I was responsible with my spending and everything else
    The proportion of applicants from families with better socioeconomic background is higher, because their parents want and push their children to get education, because this is a sure way to secure comfortable future for their children. "Poor" people simply do not care
     
  50. Daneosaurus

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    It's not affordable for people living paycheck to paycheck which most people in this country sadly are. I've worked extremely hard so before you pass judgement on me and say I deserve my poverty, check your own privilege. I'm poor because serving my country didn't pay well enough to build up very much savings and I was discharged on a medical disability. Instead of working a dead end job when I left the marine corps I struggled so that I could make a better life for my family rather than remaining poor. I'm not saying you haven't worked hard as well, I'm saying you have a narrow minded view point. It's harder to encourage your children through financial and educational support if you haven't had that support yourself. I am an exception not the rule and I think you need to #checkyourprivilege.
     
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  51. oralcare123

    7+ Year Member

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    $25 a month not affordable? Maybe it is time to drink less beer
    I did not and do not have any privileges. I just work hard and make smart and responsible decisions. It is just very surprising for me to see people who are blaming everyone for the fact, that they are working a dead end job. I think they should only be blaming themselves. There are plenty of opportunities in community colleges to get a profession for a very low cost and not work in Macdonalds all their life. Why did you choose to go to the Army instead of finding something better?
     

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