Washington U = numbers oriented?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by STi555, Oct 13, 2002.

  1. STi555

    STi555 Senior Member

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    I think that I once read on this board that WU is very numbers oriented. Have others heard this or can anyone confirm? I'm just asking because my application's strong point is the numbers and I was hoping that this rumor was true.
     
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  3. Adcadet

    Adcadet Long way from Gate 27

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    I think you mean "...hoping that this rumor were true."
    Wash U is very grammar-oriented.



    Sorry, couldn't resist. Yeah, that's the rumor. Although if you have the personality of a dead fly I would expect this to keep you from getting past the interview.
     
  4. SouthernGirl

    SouthernGirl Senior Member

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    Well, any school with an average MCAT of 36 must be pretty keen on the numbers. I am not even wasting my money ;)
     
  5. Adcadet

    Adcadet Long way from Gate 27

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    And if they require knowledge of basic HTML I'm screwed.
     
  6. relatively prime

    relatively prime post happy member

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    I got an interview with an MCAT 2 points below their average... so I don't think they are ~that~ numbers oriented. I think they might be moving away from the MCAT a little this year... but that's just a hunch.
     
  7. CaNEM

    CaNEM Senior Member

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    I'm assuming that since it is, after all, an average, they accept people with scores much lower than 2 points below the mean.

    Congrats on your 34 though. ;)
     
  8. STi555

    STi555 Senior Member

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    Thanks for all the quick replies. I am more careful on my grammar on essays than posting on the internet so hopefully I will do ok on that front. The rest of my application is ok, but its nothing great. So, I figured my best bet would be to apply to schools that place a stronger emphasis on GPA/MCAT scores.
     
  9. STi555

    STi555 Senior Member

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    I was just thinking I really should have put that I hope that the rumor is true.
     
  10. Adcadet

    Adcadet Long way from Gate 27

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    Good call. That's gramatically correct, and puts it nicely in the present tense (since anything in the past may not help you with your current app).

    Must sleep now.
     
  11. kreno

    kreno Candy Man

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    Look.... what is and what isn't numbers orientated? Logically... the schools with the Higher GPA/MCATS will be the ones that tend to be more numbers orientated. Therefore, Wash U, although maybe not the MOST numbers orientated just because they have the highest numbers, is certainly up there on the list of schools that TEND to be numbers orientated - otherwise they wouldn't have such absurdly high stats.
     
  12. Mutterkuchen

    Mutterkuchen Senior Member

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    I am a Wash U Grad student and do research with adcom members. They are VERY numbers orientated in med school and residency applications. I have been told (from reliable sources for what it's worth), that it takes around a 32-34 to merit any consideration, though rarely, they consider a 30. Applying with a 30 is a waste of money.

    My theory is that, though Wash U is near the top in medicine, it has an inferiority complex with other high caliber institutions. For nonmedicine areas such as economics, poly sci, bio, chem, business, etc. Wash U is good, but certainly not at the top. Accepting students with high stats is a very quantifiable measure of student body quality, and a way to maintain a good reputation. I personally think that it is BS.

    I chose not to apply to Wash U. My stats are slighly below average, and I did not want to waste my money.
     
  13. DW

    DW Fix me some sandwiches
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    i was a point under their average and i'm interviewing in a few weeks. Maybe we can be the "stupid" kids in Wash U's class of 2007 :laugh:
     
  14. crazyA

    crazyA Senior Member

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    Look everyone, I think y'all are overreacting to the WashU MCAT average...

    OK, so their average is a 36.6...assuming an even distribution, half their students had a score below 36.6

    Relatively Prime, sure your score is 2.6 points below their average, but if they accepted you, your score could be counterbalanced by someone with a say, 40 or 41, and they would still have their average (have you figured out who this is yet?)

    So if your stats are a little below, apply anyway, it's a great school, and with an acceptance rate of about 10%, you probably have a better change of getting in there than other schools with similar reputations but lower stats averages
     
  15. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member

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    Wash U is not more number-oriented than Duke, Yale, Columbia, Penn, etc.
     
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  17. jwin

    jwin Senior Member

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    I worked for a doctor at U of Chicago who read applications and interviews prospective students for Pritzker. He told me to remember when looking at numbers that if you are not URM then the average numbers are actually much higher. He said that the URMs they interview and accept typically have MCAT scores a several points below their class average (before somebody gets angry at me, yes yes i know many URMs have great stats and i am not saying that all URMs are below average at their respective schools) so if a school says their average is 33 or 34 the non URM average is more like 35 or 36 because many schools look to take a pretty large % URM. So when Wash U says their average is 36.6, if you are not URM, their average is more like 37 or 38 which i think is pretty ridiculously high.
     
  18. relatively prime

    relatively prime post happy member

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    Could it be my airport buddy!?? lol! :clap:
     
  19. relatively prime

    relatively prime post happy member

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    Ok... so here's the math major in me coming out....

    The URM population of WashU is 8.8% (according to USNews and word report). Now... let's say the average URM accepted score is 32. That's 4.6 below the overall average... that's a lot... probably more than it is in reality... but let's just exaggerate for fun. Now to find the non-URM average... solve for Y...

    (32 x 0.088) + (Y x 0.912) = 36.6

    I get Y = 37.043... so say 37. That's only 0.4 above the overall average of 36.6... in my opinion not anything to lose sleep over. :)
     
  20. cabruen

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    Now we can see why RP got one of the first acceptances! :) ;)
     
  21. CaNEM

    CaNEM Senior Member

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    That's just not true.

    For instance, consider that 1) the average MCAT and GPA for WashU matriculants is HIGHER than each of these schools, but at the same time and 2) the acceptance rate at WashU is HIGHER than each of these schools (with one exception for each rule). If WashU is less selective than the other schools overall, how do they STILL manage to have higher scores? It must be that their selectivity is based on numbers MUCH MORE SO than the other schools. WashU, therefore, IS more numbers-oriented than the other top schools.
     
  22. MedApp2003

    MedApp2003 Senior Member

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    maybe washu's average mcat/gpa is so high because they give at least 16 full rides (not counting the ones to women at any graduate school that washu gives). so maybe total there are 20 or so people with full rides. that is a lot!

    they probably give the full rides to people with unbelievable numbers -- people who are going to get in everywhere they apply (which is why washu has to lure them with money). in that case, the average for the non-full ride people could be a little lower (maybe more in line with the other top schools).

    just a thought.
     
  23. DW

    DW Fix me some sandwiches
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    plus, they have a lot of MSTPers, right? something like 25 in a class of 120 i think i read in their viewbook. that might be a factor
     
  24. CaNEM

    CaNEM Senior Member

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    Good points.
     
  25. DALABROKA

    DALABROKA Raider Hater

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    My advisor gave me a letter from Wash-U School of Medicine that was dated 9/26/02.

    The letter details some of the attributes of the 2002 entering class of the school of medicine.

    Here are the highlights:

    58 woman, 64 men
    18 to 30 years old
    GPAs of 3.22 to 4.0
    MCAT range of 28 to 42
    Students from 34 states and 6 foreign countries (11 total foreign students)
    63 different undergraduate institutions
    38 with full ride scholarships!!!:eek:

    Anyway, these ranges are kind of interesting, aren't they?
     
  26. HappySlacker

    HappySlacker Junior Member

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    As a member of the WashU Class of 05, I want to point out that around 22 or so of those 38 full rides are actually MSTPs (who have tuition paid by NIH) and not merit scholarships. They give out a bunch, but not THAT many.

    My personal experience with the WashU admissions process is that numbers are definitely important, but they also consider the whole package, so to speak. They do a good job putting together a diverse and interesting class each year. Also, the administration's support of the students and responsiveness to our issues is amazing.

    Good luck to all applying.
     
  27. neuromd03

    neuromd03 Banned
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    I have a friend at Wash U. He scored a 38 MCAT and 3.9 GPA at a top tier university. He's an MS-IV going into emergency medicine. I also know someone at U of Mich who was accepted at Wash U but turned it down because U of Mich offered a more attractive financial aid package. He scored a 40 MCAT and was in the 7 year honors program at Northwestern.
     
  28. Epi

    Epi Fuzzy Tiger

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    i know the 18 year old. this person is very interesting and can play the violin like nobody's business. gotta say, lots of talented people here.
     
  29. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member

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    I agree with HappySlacker and jwin. I have seen many of my friends' applications to med schools over the last 3 years. I have also seen the stats sheets my premed office puts out on how each individual applicant from my undergrad did for each med school. In the end, I don't care what formula you all use, because

    1) Wash U is not more number oriented than other schools. People who are accepted there are also accepted @ other top schools that all like to espouse their "well-roundedness." And at times, people will go to Wash U over your Columbia, Penn, Yale, Duke, or whatever. Therefore, so what if most people turn down Wash U for other top 10 schools? Just as long Wash U sends out enough acceptances, Wash U WILL fill its class with the same type of people who have been accepted to other top 10 schools but choose to go to Wash U for its virtues. Get over the fact that Wash U is number-oriented but Yale is not. I have seen too many brochures by these top schools. They are mostly BS (the only true part is the emphasis on their research facility. On that front, they are not hypocritical).

    2) I would always take the published GPA and MCAT from the schools with a grain of salt. I will go even further. If Wash U's published MCAT score is 36.6, you should aim for 38-40 just to be on the safe side. People always remember to mention URM, but they always forget to account for those with hot shot research (i.e. first-authorship @ some big journals) or those with compassion exuding from their orfices. Most likely, you will NOT fit the above profile, and you should arm yourself with 3.9 and 38+ MCAT (fine, if you graduate from Harvard, you can have 3.7 GPA and still be in the running).
     
  30. jot

    jot

    :laugh: yeah come on guys;)
     
  31. CaNEM

    CaNEM Senior Member

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    Really? You think they'll consider applicants with only a 38 or a 40? I thought you guys said they were numbers oriented?
     
  32. crazyA

    crazyA Senior Member

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    I think you all are overreacting, and need to settle down...

    Somebody else did a detailed analysis quite a while ago about how many people there are in each MCAT score range, and there aren't as many at the top of the spectrum (do spectrums even have tops?) as you might think...so I think this kind of panic-mongering is counter-productive...a lot of the people here do have those great EC's that will 'compensate' for the MCAT scores that TheWonderer seems to regard as substandard for WashU (34-37)
     
  33. relatively prime

    relatively prime post happy member

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    The 36.6 is the average score of the "2002 Entering Class." So it's the average matriculation score... not the average acceptance score.
     
  34. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member

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    My bad. I could swear someone said that was acceptance before. Should read more carefully. :)

    Looking back, someone did say, "let's say the average URM acceptance is 32" or something like that. I was playing off of that.
     
  35. UCLA2000

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    Wash U is a top 5 school. All top 5 schools are interested in applicants with high numbers. (That doens't mean that if you don't have high numbers you're automatically rejected, but low numbers won't get you very far at a top 5 school).
     
  36. neuromd03

    neuromd03 Banned
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    There was a visiting student from Wash U and was doing an away rotation in surgery at a hospital affiliated with my school. The attending surgeon, a rather imposing figure with a booming voice, introduced himself to her in the OR and asked her what school she was from. She replied, "Wash U." And the surgeon said, "What?" "Washington University..." And the surgeon asked, "Where's that?" :)
     

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