Washington University or UT Austin for someone who wants to go to medical school?

[yeetus]

I just got off the Washington University in St Louis waitlist. I'm wondering which college would be better for me as a person who wants to go to medical school.
I've visited both campuses and I liked UT Austin but i LOVED WashU's
I'm concerned about grade deflation and I'm wondering if that will be a problem for me at WashU as a GPA is pretty important for medical school admissions (probably more than school prestige)
I'm in a upper middle class household so paying for UT will be easy (would probably be debt free after undergraduate) and WashU is manageable (probably could pay half of it without loans).
Also I'd be far away from friends (some who are going to UT) and home as i live in Texas and St Louis is an eight hour drive away.
WashU is known to be a very good undergraduate school for people who want to apply for medical school (which is what I want to do too)

Would appreciate your opinion and thoughts on this.

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[Rusrus]

I just got off the Washington University in St Louis waitlist. I'm wondering which college would be better for me as a person who wants to go to medical school.
I've visited both campuses and I liked UT Austin but i LOVED WashU's
I'm concerned about grade deflation and I'm wondering if that will be a problem for me at WashU as a GPA is pretty important for medical school admissions (probably more than school prestige)
I'm in a upper middle class household so paying for UT will be easy (would probably be debt free after undergraduate) and WashU is manageable (probably could pay half of it without loans).
Also I'd be far away from friends (some who are going to UT) and home as i live in Texas and St Louis is an eight hour drive away.
WashU is known to be a very good undergraduate school for people who want to apply for medical school (which is what I want to do too)

Would appreciate your opinion and thoughts on this.

Where you go to undergrad has a very minor role in the grand scheme of medical school admissions. I’m not too familiar with WashU but the ‘grade deflation’ can have a negative impact on your GPA, which is a major part of your application.

Personally, I would recommend UT Austin because you’ll be debt free, close to family, and lower risk of grade deflation. Hook ‘em.

 

[seanm028]

Personally, I would recommend UT Austin because you’ll be debt free, close to family, and lower risk of grade deflation. Hook ‘em.

Also you'd be in Austin, which, I mean, come on.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I just got off the Washington University in St Louis waitlist. I'm wondering which college would be better for me as a person who wants to go to medical school.
I've visited both campuses and I liked UT Austin but i LOVED WashU's
I'm concerned about grade deflation and I'm wondering if that will be a problem for me at WashU as a GPA is pretty important for medical school admissions (probably more than school prestige)
I'm in a upper middle class household so paying for UT will be easy (would probably be debt free after undergraduate) and WashU is manageable (probably could pay half of it without loans).
Also I'd be far away from friends (some who are going to UT) and home as i live in Texas and St Louis is an eight hour drive away.
WashU is known to be a very good undergraduate school for people who want to apply for medical school (which is what I want to do too)

Would appreciate your opinion and thoughts on this.

If you were on the waitlist and you just got into Wash U, you will probably get Bs and Cs for grades in science classes there. You were probably a straight A student in high school and think that mastery of the material at the college level will get you straight As at Wash U. Think again. Why go $100,000 in debt to get your dreams shattered? It's just stupid.

 

[rdyotz]

UT. Save the money now, and hopefully in the future. I'm not sure if you are a Texas resident (doesn't seem like it), but going to school there will at least give you some ties to the area. If your willing to take a gap year after graduation and work, then you can become a Texas resident, which means super cheap med school tuition in-state.

 

[pieceofmeat96]

I can't emphasize enough, go to UT austin. Picking washu over ucla was **by far** the biggest mistake of my life. They take a cohort with average act 34 and then use B and C centered curves to weed out ~75% of that group. It's absolutely immoral. I would have no problem recommending Washu for non premeds, but I strongly urge you to not shoot yourself in the foot on this one.

Yup and this is how WashU gets a terrible reputation for being a grade deflated. I am not going to argue the difficulty of classes, as it varies for students of different high school backgrounds. What I will say is that there are no C curves in the premed classes; everything as I recall was centered at around a B/B-. Second, there is plenty of support with doing well in classes, PLTL is a group based session where upperclassmen facilitate group problem solving sessions with students in the class. The introductory general chemistry class does not even have curves. They have an absolute scale of grades, and you need a 75 for an A. People who don’t do well blame WashU about its difficulty and “curves” and don’t ask themselves how they can do better. You need to be dedicated and work hard - if you do those and reach out for support when you need it, you can do well at Washu.

If you were on the waitlist and you just got into Wash U, you will probably get Bs and Cs for grades in science classes there. You were probably a straight A student in high school and think that mastery of the material at the college level will get you straight As at Wash U. Think again. Why go $100,000 in debt to get your dreams shattered? It's just stupid.

Lol. So a waitlist is an indication of a student’s ability to perform well in an institution? That’s simply false.

OP, I would still go to the school with the less debt because I don’t believe it’s necessary to go to a school with more prestige for undergrad. This is especially because there is plenty of research available at UT-Austin, and you can do well there. But, if you want to go outside of your comfort zone, you can do well at WashU by working hard. Don’t listen to rumors about WashU because every student’s experience is different.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Yup and this is how WashU gets a terrible reputation for being a grade deflated. I am not going to argue the difficulty of classes, as it varies for students of different high school backgrounds. What I will say is that there are no C curves in the premed classes; everything as I recall was centered at around a B/B-. Second, there is plenty of support with doing well in classes, PLTL is a group based session where upperclassmen facilitate group problem solving sessions with students in the class. The introductory general chemistry class does not even have curves. They have an absolute scale of grades, and you need a 75 for an A. People who don’t do well blame WashU about its difficulty and “curves” and don’t ask themselves how they can do better. You need to be dedicated and work hard - if you do those and reach out for support when you need it, you can do well at Washu.

Lol. So a waitlist is an indication of a student’s ability to perform well in an institution? That’s simply false.

OP, I would still go to the school with the less debt because I don’t believe it’s necessary to go to a school with more prestige for undergrad. This is especially because there is plenty of research available at UT-Austin, and you can do well there. But, if you want to go outside of your comfort zone, you can do well at WashU by working hard. Don’t listen to rumors about WashU because every student’s experience is different.

Every grade of "B" is a coffin nail for people who want to go to medical school. The average GPA and the standard deviations around it show that for most applicants "B's will sink your application.

Yes, a waitlist is an indication of a student's ability. ACT scores and SAT scores are good predictors of a students' capacity to perform well in college. I suspect that the OP has an ACT score below 34. There is simply no reason for the OP to fight this battle above his/her weight class.

 

[Lucca]

I went to UT Austin and absolutely loved it, highly recommend especially if it’s cheaper. Lots of resources for premeds, intro classes can be weedout but definitely not as tough as WashU (I’ve seen some examples of their exams from friends who’ve attended), great research opportunities (shoutout to the Freshman Research Initiative which gets you on hypothesis driven projects starting your second semester). Lots of opportunities for continuing scholarships to help finance your education (Ut May be unique in that a lot of scholarship money is not given to freshmen necessarily but is done through the continuing scholarship competitions every year). And of course Austin is a great city to be a student.

Obligatory @efle signal

 

[efle]

The introductory general chemistry class does not even have curves. They have an absolute scale of grades, and you need a 75 for an A. People who don’t do well blame WashU about its difficulty and “curves” and don’t ask themselves how they can do better.

It "doesn't have curves" the same way "the MCAT isn't curved". It is, just not off that year's data. The absolute scale is built from the performance of the prior cohort. You're still competing against a bunch of WashU students for an A, it's just that you're competing against the previous year not each other in the class. Helps psychological well-being a little bit, since destroying your neighbor's notes can't help your grade, but it doesn't make it any easier or harder.

And the majority of premeds get weeded. You're off your rocker if you think it's all for lack of effort to improve. I had plenty of friends with much better work ethics than mine who had to give up, because even at 100% effort they were only able to stay at the average and kept getting 2.7 / 3.0 marks for it. If you didn't have any good friends who experienced that, your entire circle was a bunch of outliers.

OP says he can only pay half of WashU though, which means what, 30k/yr of loans these days? It would be nuts to take $120,000 of undergrad debt unnecessarily. Would go to the free state flagship for sure unless WashU could give a lot more aid than half.

 

[pieceofmeat96]

I had 5 prereqs on a B and 3 on a C. Maybe you had nicer teachers lol.

The problem, in my opinion, with saying "anyone can do well at washu" is that BY DEFINITION that's impossible. 75% of people will be weeded out by the curve no matter what. Only half the remaining will have a competitive gpa. Statistically speaking going to WUSTL is a bad idea. I have no indication that OP could beat the odds; in fact it's 7 times more likely that s/he would be unable to have a ocmpetitive med school app.

There we go again...I did well at washu because I had easier teachers, not because I had a strong high school background and had a willingness to reflect and improve. Attributing external factors to others’ success - I wonder what that is called..?

It "doesn't have curves" the same way "the MCAT isn't curved". It is, just not off that year's data. The absolute scale is built from the performance of the prior cohort. You're still competing against a bunch of WashU students for an A, it's just that you're competing against the previous year not each other in the class. Helps psychological well-being a little bit, since destroying your neighbor's notes can't help your grade, but it doesn't make it any easier or harder.

And the majority of premeds get weeded. You're off your rocker if you think it's all for lack of effort to improve. I had plenty of friends with much better work ethics than mine who had to give up, because even at 100% effort they were only able to stay at the average and kept getting 2.7 / 3.0 marks for it. If you didn't have any good friends who experienced that, your entire circle was a bunch of outliers.

When did I say that? I said that success is a combination of high school backgrounds and support, work ethic, and willingness to be proactive and ask for help. I also had friends who have struggled and didn’t do as well. Work ethic was a big reason for that, and it is not just an indication of the hours you spend studying. Success is not all about ‘how much you study’; it’s about how you study, how you manage your time.

 

[Bubblepop]

I also attended WashU. Lots of my classmates did extremely well in classes, while I struggled quite a bit even though I was a top student in high school. I would hesitate to recommend WashU for undergrad based on the cost of attendance for you, but it's a great place if you want to aim for amazing cutting-edge research opportunities that would give you a leg up for very competitive med schools. Also, I found that even though my GPA was significantly lower than other students from other institutions, I felt very prepared for any intellectual or scientific discussions at interviews thanks to my education and exposure at WU. Ultimately, you will have to work hard at any school, and you will be able to be successful no matter where you decide to attend. GPA isn't everything either. I have WashU friends with 3.4s going to excellent med schools, and 3.9+s who will be attending the same low-midtier med school as me. Hope this helps you make the best decision for yourself! Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

My vote is UT Austin. Prestige means close to nothing. IF you wanted to quantify it, I'd say it'd be 0.05 points on your GPA, and that's on a good day. The $120,000 of debt you won't have and the higher grades you might earn at Austin make it a no-brainer.

Remember: the 4.0 from State beats the 3.6 from Caltech! Of course, there's the better network you might get from WashU, but if I was you I'd pick Austin.

 

[Snaketail]

.

 

[Isoval]

Not that I read the rest of the thread, but...

Anecdotally, people from both WashU and UT Austin are in my class.

Tl;dr, go wherever you feel is a better fit and being cheaper is a big plus.

 

[yeetus]

I appreciate people’s honesty in this thread, especially those that went to Wash U. I think that I’ll thrive better at UT in an environment where I’m used to being on top. Although it’s hard to give up on WashU’s amazing research opportunities and resources for premeds, I think that hard work and effort at UT will open up just as many doors there. Good grades at WashU are limited to a fixed percentage of students, but there’s no strict limit on the opportunities people can get at UT. Not to mention the absence of debt.

 

[efle]

When did I say that? I said that success is a combination of high school backgrounds and support, work ethic, and willingness to be proactive and ask for help. I also had friends who have struggled and didn’t do as well. Work ethic was a big reason for that, and it is not just an indication of the hours you spend studying. Success is not all about ‘how much you study’; it’s about how you study, how you manage your time.

You said people blame the difficulty when really it's that they didn't try to improve their studying. I'm saying it's a bunch of nonsense to say the majority of WashU premeds lack that insight, or the willingness to put in the hours. The fact of the matter is that the system puts 900+ premeds who were, on average, top 1% test takers and straight-A AP students and pits them against each other (or their predecessors) on a curve until there are ~300-350 left at the end. Realizing you need to be high yield with your time and make the best use of resources is a thought that does occur to the folks getting B and C grades. But it does not mean you'll make it out with a competitive set of prereq grades.

Imagine you had your high school background and support, your work ethic, and sought out all the helpful PLTL and whatnot. And then imagine it was still only getting you B- grades. That's the experience a lot of people have. I don't know how much exposure you've had to what other school's coursework looks like. But if you hold up a WashU orgo exam next to one of my sibling's orgo exams from their unknown private liberal arts college, you'll realize the students working hard for their B or B+ marks at schools like WashU would be doing a hell of a lot better somewhere less difficult.*

*Data from 2015 WashU prehealth handbook GPA/MCAT grid, compared to AAMC national GPA/MCAT grid. WashU cohort with ~3.3 GPA outperformed national cohort with ~3.9 GPA; same true for 3.1 GPA vs 3.7 GPA.

 

[Arturiase]

If i were to compare to the two, you are like a nice piece of uncooked steak. UT austin is like a nice flat iron pan, you'll come out okay no matter what. Wash U is like a super flaming nice hot broiler, you might come out with a super nice sear(and be served at a super nice steakhouse) or you might just be burnt meat.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Here's a better choice, OP. Go to Texas Tech. Here is the admissions profile in Lubbock;

Texas Tech Admission Requirements

Find out admissions requirements for Texas Tech, including GPA requirements and SAT, ACT, and application requirements.

www.prepscholar.com

The average SAT is 1158. If you go to Texas Tech and work hard you will curb stomp the competition. You can go to the football and basketball games. You can have fun and get a 4.0. If you get a reasonable MCAT score, say a 511, there is no way you won't get into one of the dozen or so Texas med schools. If you want to be a doctor, be a Red Raider.

 

[PersonBehindAScreen]

UT to save the money. IF you choose Wash, know that you will still be a Texas Resident assuming you come right back after you get your degree