WashU v. UCLA?

[Md2be85]

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So, I'm a long time lurker and I'm aware that these threads are not the best way to make a decision (and obviously won't be the only thing that factors into my decision), but please don't just attack me because I really am curious to get some perspective:
I know the two schools are very different, with UCLA having a more laid back reputation (and all P/F grading) to WashU's gunner reputation and H/P/F second year, but on my interview days I loved the students at WashU (and loved St. Louis) while I didn't get to meet many UCLA students and was a little intimidated by the glamorousness of West LA. How big a different do you think there is in the strength of clinical training between the schools? Do you think either would give me a leg up for residency match? If finances weren't an issue which would you choose?
Thank you in advance for your thoughtful comments...

 

[ItOnlyTakesOne]

As someone who is California born and raised, went to UCLA, and now goes to SLU, I would pick UCLA in a heartbeat. They're both excellent schools, but California vs. Missouri? No contest in my book 😀

Good luck with your decision

 

[cgbg]

go to UCLA, that way i have a better chance (0.5% better?) at a spot at wash u.

 

[seraph524]

I would recommend WashU...immense resources and awesome translational research. But location wise, UCLA wins.

 

[crazy4clana]

If you are in-state, go to UCLA. If not, Wash U!

 

[pntgrd]

UCLA. Both are very strong in areas such as prestige, hospital, and research. However, UCLA has a less competitive vibe due to the grading, and its location is 5x better than WashU.

 

[notdeadyet]

UCLA. Both are very strong in areas such as prestige, hospital, and research. However, UCLA has a less competitive vibe due to the grading, and its location is 5x better than WashU.

^^^ Agree. Add me to the UCLA vote.

 

[TM2006]

So I like to give my .02...

I think you should have a good reason to choose UCLA over WashU. WashU is an incredible school with a lot of prestige/history. People call it the Harvard of the MidWest for a reason.

UCLA is not the Harvard of the West (it's still a great school...don't get me wrong). Honestly though, you can't go wrong choosing either one.

p.s. CONGRATS!

 

[notdeadyet]

I think you should have a good reason to choose UCLA over WashU. WashU is an incredible school with a lot of prestige/history. People call it the Harvard of the MidWest for a reason.

UCLA is not the Harvard of the West (it's still a great school...don't get me wrong). Honestly though, you can't go wrong choosing either one.

You presume that everyone gives a $hit about going to Harvard. And at the end of the day, all that "it's the Harvard of ______" really tells you is that it ain't Harvard.

If the OP is interested in practicing medicine in California (and especially if he has residency already), it would be hard to justify going to Wash U.

The only way I'd lean towards WashU is if I was interested in practicing in the Midwest, had a love affair with St. Louis or if I had a driving passion for a field where whether you went to a #4 ranked school vs. #13 ranked school was going to make all the difference in the world. And the last issue? It's a lot more rare than you'd probably think.

 

[TM2006]

You presume that everyone gives a $hit about going to Harvard. And at the end of the day, all that "it's the Harvard of ______" really tells you is that it ain't Harvard.

If the OP is interested in practicing medicine in California (and especially if he has residency already), it would be hard to justify going to Wash U.

The only way I'd lean towards WashU is if I was interested in practicing in the Midwest, had a love affair with St. Louis or if I had a driving passion for a field where whether you went to a #4 ranked school vs. #13 ranked school was going to make all the difference in the world. And the last issue? It's a lot more rare than you'd probably think.

well first of all, i said it's my personal .02.

secondly, you might not care about attending harvard (or any other top prestigious medical institution) but every person involved in residency selections that I have met has cared.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

I don't think there's going to be any great difference in clinical training or future residency options (except slightly easier to match into residencies in the Midwest from WashU and west coast from UCLA, but that's very minior).

I think it really comes down to cost and location.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

This one's too easy.

 

[seraph524]

You presume that everyone gives a $hit about going to Harvard. And at the end of the day, all that "it's the Harvard of ______" really tells you is that it ain't Harvard.

If the OP is interested in practicing medicine in California (and especially if he has residency already), it would be hard to justify going to Wash U.

The only way I'd lean towards WashU is if I was interested in practicing in the Midwest, had a love affair with St. Louis or if I had a driving passion for a field where whether you went to a #4 ranked school vs. #13 ranked school was going to make all the difference in the world. And the last issue? It's a lot more rare than you'd probably think.

It seems to me you have an overwhelming hate for WashU.

 

[spanamit]

I am also in a very similar dilemma. Here are some things I have come up with to compare my pair of schools:

- Structure of curriculum in first two years (PBL? Trad.? Block? Organ? P/F?)
- Proximity to Family and Friends
- Financial Aid Packages
- Weather
- Preference in location for doing residency

As far as clinical training is concerned, honestly I think WashU and UCLA are both very good. Your residency placement would mostly be determined by your Clinical grades, your Step1 scores and your letter of recs, not by the very very minute difference in prestige between WashU and UCLA.

 

[dante8700]

You might also want to wait for the second look weekends have get a chance to meet your possible future classmates at both schools. I want to go to a school where I feel as if I fit in, and a big part of that is the students. Maybe you'll get along better with the other students at one school compared to the other...

 

[notdeadyet]

secondly, you might not care about attending harvard (or any other top prestigious medical institution) but every person involved in residency selections that I have met has cared.

I'm not sure who you're meeting involved in residency selections, but you should take what they're saying with a grain of salt. Of all of the criteria for residency selection, the medical school you attended is actually pretty low on the list of importance. Board scores, clinical rotation performances, and LORs are big. The ranking of your medical school does not have as big an impact as most premeds seem to think. Not when you're comparing schools that are 9 slots away from each other.

This was the advice given to me by the residency director at my med school, residency directors I've heard speak, and the reference books on getting into the residnecy of your choice (Iverson and another). Not just my opinon.

 

[wood41]

UCLA, hands down!

my friend is in a somewhat similar predicament but between JHU and UCLA, we've all told him UCLA for location, reputation, laid-backness. don't be intimidated by LA, it would be a great location to be in med school. everyone i know who moved to LA has loved it. so worth it, i wish i was in your position.

 

[notdeadyet]

It seems to me you have an overwhelming hate for WashU.

Wow, not at all. I think it's a great medical school. But again, if I were a Californian interested in practicing medicine in California, I sure wouldn't turn down LA to move to St. Louis and attend WashU.

Were I from Missouri and interested in practicing in Missouri, I woudn't turn down WashU to atend UCLA either.

Not a hate thing, just not a USN&WR devotee either.

 

[notdeadyet]

You might also want to wait for the second look weekends have get a chance to meet your possible future classmates at both schools. I want to go to a school where I feel as if I fit in, and a big part of that is the students. Maybe you'll get along better with the other students at one school compared to the other...

Good advice. Second looks usually do a pretty good job at identifying what sort of students a medical school is attracting. And I have a hunch that WashU and UCLA attract very different kinds of medical students.

 

[Cegar]

There are less Californians at WashU. Go there.

 

[172858]

If you're a cool person, have an amiable personality, and believe in medical school students working together (note sharing, study groups, etc) instead of backstabbing, I think you should come to UCLA and be one of my future class mates. I mean, you can't beat P/F cirriculum, gross anatomy prossections, westwood, and the amazing clinical sites (UCLA Medical Center, Ceder Sinai, etc).

However, if you're no fun and plan on being a gunner, go to the other school. 😀

 

[Md2be85]

Thank you all for your responses! I think going to second looks and trying to get a better feeling for each place will be a big factor, but it is really helpful to see what impressions other people got from each school.
Texas, you sound like you'd be a great classmate to have! Why is there no UCLA 2012 thread yet, we should start one!

 

[berkeleyvala]

You obviously did very well in undergraduate, so one, congratulations! Two, my opinion is totally biased as I'm Cali born and raised, but I would say UCLA all the way. Although I prefer the Bay Area, westwoods got its own charm. You'll get used to the different vibe after a while. The students there seem really happy, and if you're looking for a CA residency afterwards, LA would be the place to go. Good luck making your decision.👍

 

[crazy4clana]

Good advice. Second looks usually do a pretty good job at identifying what sort of students a medical school is attracting. And I have a hunch that WashU and UCLA attract very different kinds of medical students.

Sorry, but what does the location of the med school have to do with where you practice? If you go to Wash U, one of the BEST med schools in the country, and do well on the boards, you can do residency anywhere you want in the US, not just the Midwest. This only applies to schools like SIU where they want you practice in rural areas but even then students get residencies in CA too. Your logic doesn't make sense.

 

[enigma85]

What a wonderful choice to have.

There is very little to separate these schools overall in terms of clinical training.

Total cost may actually be similar given the amount of money WashU sometimes throws at students and the higher living costs in LA.

How interested are you in staying in CA for residency? How big of a role does location/weather/proximity to home play in your decision? Are you interested in any unique programs at either school ? For example, WashU has the Doris Duke Clinical Research Fellowship and opportunities for an MD/MA, while UCLA has an MPH program.

 

[notdeadyet]

Sorry, but what does the location of the med school have to do with where you practice? If you go to Wash U, one of the BEST med schools in the country, and do well on the boards, you can do residency anywhere you want in the US, not just the Midwest.

Apologies if I wasn't clear. WashU will not limit your residency options in any way. Any solid med school (WashU and UCLA very much included) will allow you the chance to practice in any specialty in any region you want, provided you perform well on your boards and clinicals.

That said, UCLA will hold certain advantages for getting California residencies. The majority of UCLA graduates will seek (and get) California residencies. This helps you, as residency directors have a solid exposure of approving graduates of your med school into their program year after year.

Also, for competitive medical residencies, it can be very important to do rotations at the site you're hoping to be accepted to for residency. The advantage of UCLA is that you can rotate at some great hospitals within commuting distance during your clerkship years. You only have so many opportunities to do this from halfway across the country (unless you're absolutely made out of money).

This is not cheerleading for UCLA or knocking WashU. If the OP was interested in a NYC residency, he would be wise to consider going to Cornell instead of UCLA, even though UCLA is ranked higher.

Hope this clears things up.

 

[TM2006]

I'm not sure who you're meeting involved in residency selections, but you should take what they're saying with a grain of salt. Of all of the criteria for residency selection, the medical school you attended is actually pretty low on the list of importance. Board scores, clinical rotation performances, and LORs are big. The ranking of your medical school does not have as big an impact as most premeds seem to think. Not when you're comparing schools that are 9 slots away from each other.

This was the advice given to me by the residency director at my med school, residency directors I've heard speak, and the reference books on getting into the residnecy of your choice (Iverson and another). Not just my opinon.

that's an interesting perspective. the people i have talked (those selecting/interviewing for a competitive residency in Cali) seem to always emphasize the importance of medical school prestige. Why? at their level when everything else is the same....they have to stratify the applicants in some way. That's their personal preference (every selection process is subjective and random). They also all seem to always respect Wash U more than UCLA -not that UCLA is not a great school.

 

[crazy4clana]

That said, UCLA will hold certain advantages for getting California residencies. The majority of UCLA graduates will seek (and get) California residencies. This helps you, as residency directors have a solid exposure of approving graduates of your med school into their program year after year.

Also, for competitive medical residencies, it can be very important to do rotations at the site you're hoping to be accepted to for residency. The advantage of UCLA is that you can rotate at some great hospitals within commuting distance during your clerkship years. You only have so many opportunities to do this from halfway across the country (unless you're absolutely made out of money).

Ok, I gotcha. I just didn't understand the mentality of where you go to med school decides where you do residency/practice, especially when you have so many oppurtunities at Wash U. 🙂

 

[flaahless]

that's an interesting perspective. the people i have talked (those selecting/interviewing for a competitive residency in Cali) seem to always emphasize the importance of medical school prestige. Why? at their level when everything else is the same....they have to stratify the applicants in some way. That's their personal preference (every selection process is subjective and random). They also all seem to always respect Wash U more than UCLA -not that UCLA is not a great school.

I don't know where you're from. But in Cali, UCLA carries a LOT of weight, enough to negate the slight difference in USN&WR ranking. I agree with Notdeadyet. If the OP is trying to land a residency in CA, it would be very wise to go to UCLA.

 

[pntgrd]

WashU might be slightly higher in the rankings from US News for whatever that is worth, but the name UCLA carries a lot more name recognition than WashU, especially outside of the Midwest.

 

[halekulani]

that's an interesting perspective. the people i have talked (those selecting/interviewing for a competitive residency in Cali) seem to always emphasize the importance of medical school prestige. Why? at their level when everything else is the same....they have to stratify the applicants in some way. That's their personal preference (every selection process is subjective and random). They also all seem to always respect Wash U more than UCLA -not that UCLA is not a great school.

.........
you think school name > board scores, LORs, or anything else on the application?

unless you're on the committee i have little reason to believe you when you say WashU is significantly better than UCLA, and enough of a reason alone to impact your residency placement.

 

[crazy4clana]

WashU might be slightly higher in the rankings from US News for whatever that is worth, but the name UCLA carries a lot more name recognition than WashU, especially outside of the Midwest.

Slightly higher? Wash U is ranked 4 in US News and Rankings, it carries plenty of name recognition outside of the midwest.

 

[pntgrd]

Slightly higher? Wash U is ranked 4 in US News and Rankings, it carries plenty of name recognition outside of the midwest.

Most physicians couldn't list the order of the top 20 schools in the US News ranking. Secondly, I (and many others in college) never even heard of WashUStl until they started sending me advertisements to apply there for college.

 

[crazy4clana]

Most physicians couldn't list the order of the top 20 schools in the US News ranking. Secondly, I (and many others in college) never even heard of WashUStl until they started sending me advertisements to apply there for college.

Just because you haven't heard of it, it doesn't carry any recognition? It's one of the top medical schools in the country!

 

[TheRealMD]

I'm hoping one day people here on SDN will realize that highly ranked schools producing excellent doctors (or more down to earth, getting a "great" residency) is a self-fulfilling prophecy for most people.

 

[flaahless]

Just because you haven't heard of it, it doesn't carry any recognition? It's one of the top medical schools in the country!

Yeah, but in California, WashU does not carry more weight than UCLA.

 

[172858]

Thank you all for your responses! I think going to second looks and trying to get a better feeling for each place will be a big factor, but it is really helpful to see what impressions other people got from each school.
Texas, you sound like you'd be a great classmate to have! Why is there no UCLA 2012 thread yet, we should start one!

That's true. Someone needs to pull the trigger on the class of 2012 thread.

Are you going to second look weekend on the 19th? I wouldn't make any decisions either way before then. I just booked my flight for it and am looking forward to meeting my potential future classmates. It's going to be a fun weekend!😀

 

[pntgrd]

Just because you haven't heard of it, it doesn't carry any recognition? It's one of the top medical schools in the country!

It might be one of the top med schools in the country, but your reasoning is based on its name, which I am saying is not the case for WashU. It's name alone is not higher than places such as Stanford, Harvard, Hopkins, UCLA, Duke. It does not make it a worse school, I am just saying Washington University is not the name brand some other schools are.

 

[crazy4clana]

It might be one of the top med schools in the country, but your reasoning is based on its name, which I am saying is not the case for WashU. It's name alone is not higher than places such as Stanford, Harvard, Hopkins, UCLA, Duke. It does not make it a worse school, I am just saying Washington University is not the name brand some other schools are.

I'm not basing it on it's name, I'm basing on the entirety of the school itself and the fact that it's not "recognized" outside of the midwest just because you haven't heard of it. I guess people from CA are live in their own little world.

 

[pntgrd]

I'm not basing it on it's name, I'm basing on the entirety of the school itself and the fact that it's not "recognized" outside of the midwest just because you haven't heard of it. I guess people from CA are live in their own little world.

Except you haven't written anything based on the school itself in this thread. I do not think WashU curriculum, grading scale, price, location, and hospitals are any better than UCLA.

 

[crazy4clana]

^ That is irrevelant. I responded to this post which I disagreed with.

WashU might be slightly higher in the rankings from US News for whatever that is worth, but the name UCLA carries a lot more name recognition than WashU, especially outside of the Midwest.

My point is that Wash U carries name recognition outside of the US, it's known for it's successful curriculum, high success rates of students and the type of physicians they produce. If you (people in general) have any semblance of medical knowledge, they would know which schools garner the top students. Just check out the Wash U thread about their ridiculous admission stats and how hard it is to gain admission there.

 

[flaahless]

^ That is irrevelant. I responded to this post which I disagreed with.



My point is that Wash U carries name recognition outside of the US, it's known for it's successful curriculum, high success rates of students and the type of physicians they produce. If you (people in general) have any semblance of medical knowledge, they would know which schools garner the top students. Just check out the Wash U thread about their ridiculous admission stats and how hard it is to gain admission there.

That's a flawed argument.

 

[pntgrd]

^
My point is that Wash U carries name recognition outside of the US, it's known for it's successful curriculum, high success rates of students and the type of physicians they produce. If you (people in general) have any semblance of medical knowledge, they would know which schools garner the top students. Just check out the Wash U thread about their ridiculous admission stats and how hard it is to gain admission there.

Again, your basing your arguments on nothing. And I don't believe WashU is well known outside of the US, nor do I care. I am planning on practicing in the US. And how much medical knowledge do you have, Mr. "pre-dental"? You don't provide any real information to the original poster about the merits of WashU, and your arguments are really faulty and stilted.

 

[crazy4clana]

Believe what you want, but it's kind of sad that I myself am pre-dental (and a she) and I knew about Wash U while yourself, a pre-med has never heard of it before recently. At least I'm not basing my argument because of my lack of knowledge. A school ranked number 4 on US News top medical schools for research won't have any recognition outside of the midwest? Are you listening to yourself?

 

[pntgrd]

Believe what you want, but it's kind of sad that I myself am pre-dental (and a she) and I knew about Wash U while yourself, a pre-med has never heard of it before recently. At least I'm not basing my argument because of my lack of knowledge. A school ranked number 4 on US News top medical schools for research won't have any recognition outside of the midwest? Are you listening to yourself?

I never said I don't know about it, or that it is a bad school. And what is a pre-dental student doing trolling on the pre-allo board?

 

[crazy4clana]

Yes, you did.

Secondly, I (and many others in college) never even heard of WashUStl until they started sending me advertisements to apply there for college.

I'm not trolling, I just don't agree with your comments. Or is that not allowed? And is there a clause at SDN that says I can't post here if I'm not pre-med? No, develop that superiority complex after you started medical school chief. 🙄

 

[pntgrd]

Yes, you did.



I'm not trolling, I just don't agree with your comments. Or is that not allowed? And is there a clause at SDN that says I can't post here if I'm not pre-med? No, develop that superiority complex after you started medical school chief. 🙄

I said I didn't know about it until applying for colleges in high school. That was over 4 years ago. Of course I know about it now. Stop constructing straw men. Have you known about it since you were a small child?

 

[clab1707]

If you're a cool person, have an amiable personality, and believe in medical school students working together (note sharing, study groups, etc) instead of backstabbing, I think you should come to UCLA and be one of my future class mates. I mean, you can't beat P/F cirriculum, gross anatomy prossections, westwood, and the amazing clinical sites (UCLA Medical Center, Ceder Sinai, etc).

However, if you're no fun and plan on being a gunner, go to the other school. 😀

If you like clinical, Wash U has largest hospital in the Midwest with Barnes-Jewish.

Oh, and midwesterners are typically less pretentious that these uppity west-coasters. 😉 (See above poster)

 

[crazy4clana]

Oh, and midwesterners are typically less pretentious that these uppity west-coasters. 😉 (See above poster)

Sooo true. 😉

 

[dienekes88]

I said I didn't know about it until applying for colleges in high school. That was over 4 years ago. Of course I know about it now. Stop constructing straw men. Have you known about it since you were a small child?

Yeah, I didn't know much about Wash U when I was in high school, and that's probably why it doesn't necessarily have the name recognition that other schools have. Then again, I grew up on the east coast. Overall, the undergrad rep doesn't quite match schools like UCLA and Duke, though it edges them out in "the rankings" for med school. Given this, the "uninitiated," i.e. the patients googling your name after their PCPs have referred them to you, might not recognize it.

OP, I'd go to UCLA, 'cause the weather is nicer. Ceteris paribus, Wash U might give you a tiny edge in the eyes of a couple residency directors. However, it is rarely the case that all other things are equal. Other elements, which you have complete control over regardless of where you go, will probably matter more: grades, step 1, research, being nice...