WashU's premed

[MooMooMilieu]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hi, everyone! I'm new here, and just had a couple of questions regarding WashU's premed. I was recently accepted to Washington University in St. Louis as an incoming freshman. I really would like to complete their premed program, but have heard some not-so-great things about their program (really cutthroat, backstabbing competition). Would it be a good idea to go here for premed? Right now, I'm really worried I won't be able to maintain a high enough GPA to be accepted into any med school. I have a choice between this school and my in-state school, (Arizona State University), which has a good BME program, but almost non-existent premed program. Should I go here, where I'll be able to maintain a fairly high GPA, or Wash U? So sorry for the long post! Any help would be greatly, greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading! 🙂

 

[jjmack]

go where you will be most happy. Wash u doesn't have a real pre med program. They have classes you should take but you need to declare an actual major. The premed classes are difficult and graded on a curve, but I wouldn't call it cutthroat and backstabbing.

 

[masterMood]

Go to Washington University in St. Louis. The professors truly care about teaching you the material and as long as you do the reading and stay focused you'll get the grades to do well. If you got into WUSL, it means that you are able to do well at their school, and get into better med. schools.

WUSL also has more prestige than that state university and its pretty well-known, reputable, lots of research opportunities, and better chances for med. school.

And no school really has a "pre-med" curriculum. If they do, its basically a biology or chemistry major.

Premed means you have to take 2 semesters of english, 1 semester of calculus, 2 semester of bio with lab, 2 semesters of chemitsry with lab, 2 semesters of physics, and 2 semesters of organic chemistry with lab.

 

[MWillie]

Also, if you can maintain a good gpa and do well on the MCAT, you can be guaranteed acceptance to WUSTL med.

 

[dcham]

Yeah I would say go to Washu. I'm finishing up there right now and i feel that the pre-med education that I recevied is second to none. While the classes are competitive they are not impossible, and if you work hard you'll probably do well. Plus the people who teach you are not only good teachers but leaders in their respective fields. On top of all this there are great opportunities for meaningful undergrad research at the med school and main campus. Participation is actively encouraged by the administration and I know tons of people who are published by the time they graduate.

 

[coincidental]

I also vote Wash U. If you change your mind about the premed thing there are lots of opportunities at Wash U in many different fields. I also do not think the premed program is "cutthroat" and is very doable, but if for some reason you decide medicine is not for you, you'll have lots of options.

 

[leiface]

Hey, I find your concerns totally relevant and understandable. I'm currently a senior at WashU. Speaking from experience, WashU's pre-med program (You can argue about whether its a "program" or not, but when half of the entering class is pre-med, I'm calling it a program!) is in fact very competitive and difficult. Also you should know that 70% of pre-meds coming in to WashU quit by the time they are seniors. HOWEVER, I've never encountered any backstabbing or foul play. If you are serious about pre-med and serious about studying very hard, then pre-med is definitely possible. My GPA is low for med school, a 3.37, but I've been accepted 3 schools and waitlisted at WashU medical school. I am sure if I had that GPA coming from my state school, I would not have been as successful. I would recommend going to www.mdapplicants.com and doing a search for Arizona State grads versus WashU grads and seeing how they fair in the application process. I strongly suspect that WashU grads do a lot better even when they have lower GPAs, but check to make sure. Overall, I think coming to WashU can't hurt you. Pre-med is hard but med school is harder and if you can hack it here, you can hack it in med school 🙂 Feel free to PM me with specific questions if you would like, I'd be happy to help!

Also, to the above poster who mentioned that if you have a good GPA and a high MCAT, you get automatic acceptance into WashU med school....that's not exactly correct. You are talking about the University Scholars Program. This is a program that high school students must apply for. To be admitted, they have to have an awesome application and they have to interview with WashU med school. After that, they must maintain a 3.8 GPA every semester they spend at WashU (so even if you have a cumulative 3.8GPA in the end, that won't count), and achieve a 36 on the MCAT. Every year, only a handful of students get admitted to this program, and it is difficult to estimate the success rate because it was implemented less than 4 years ago.

 

[SpeedRacer]

I graduated from Wash U a year ago and nearly died during the pre-med program. The reason was because I wanted to study things other than sciences. And I wanted to have a bit of a life too...soccer, beer....etc. I couldn't stand being in the dungeon for 5 hour chem labs when my friends were playing outside in the sun.
Point being, you can most definitely do well in premed there (I have friends who did) but you really have to put all of your effort and concentration into just that at least for the first 2 years (unless you are superhuman, which some people are). The first day of gen chem the prof literally told us: look at the person to the left of you, look to the person to the right of you: one of those people won't be here next semester. And it was true. Most everyone dropped out - I got a 25 on the first exam and it was a C (and yeah, I took AP chem and bio in high school).
So, if you show up ready to work hard and you don't want to take like art studio classes and stuff, then do it. If you have other interests and try to juggle too much, you'll end up trying to push and push and won't get anywhere. I finally accepted my failure and spent my last few years doing political science and art and was finally happy. You'll be miserable if you don't play it right, you'll be successful if you play it well. I don't regret going to Wash U because I loved it, but I do regret having to pay all this money for a post-bac program (like many other Wash Uers). Best of luck.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Hey, don't diss Dr. Frey, she's just spouting the truth. 😀

Premed weedout is the same almost everywhere. If you want to avoid that mess, go to a liberal arts school. Big state and highly-ranked private will both have tough premed programs.

 

[Oak]

I'm a graduating senior at WUSTL. IMO, Wash U premed, although tough, is as good as you'll find anywhere. It doesn't hurt that you can shadow and work in labs at one of the best med schools in the country. Feel free to PM me if you have anymore questions. Or, to direct your question to only WashU students, you might try posting on the school's livejournal site:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/washustudents/

 

[jjmack]

I never heard Dr. Frey or Dr. B(? I forget his exact name) say that during the first day or gen chem, but maybe I skipped that day. ;-) I loved being able to hang out my best friend art students while a pre-med at wash u.

I graduated from Wash U a year ago and nearly died during the pre-med program. The reason was because I wanted to study things other than sciences. And I wanted to have a bit of a life too...soccer, beer....etc. I couldn't stand being in the dungeon for 5 hour chem labs when my friends were playing outside in the sun.
Point being, you can most definitely do well in premed there (I have friends who did) but you really have to put all of your effort and concentration into just that at least for the first 2 years (unless you are superhuman, which some people are). The first day of gen chem the prof literally told us: look at the person to the left of you, look to the person to the right of you: one of those people won't be here next semester. And it was true. Most everyone dropped out - I got a 25 on the first exam and it was a C (and yeah, I took AP chem and bio in high school).
So, if you show up ready to work hard and you don't want to take like art studio classes and stuff, then do it. If you have other interests and try to juggle too much, you'll end up trying to push and push and won't get anywhere. I finally accepted my failure and spent my last few years doing political science and art and was finally happy. You'll be miserable if you don't play it right, you'll be successful if you play it well. I don't regret going to Wash U because I loved it, but I do regret having to pay all this money for a post-bac program (like many other Wash Uers). Best of luck.

 

[45408]

(Arizona State University), which has a good BME program, but almost non-existent premed program.

I'm doubting that. Any school has the pre-req's you need for med school. What are you afraid you'll miss out on?

You should also consider tuition costs.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

JJMack, Dr. Buhro, another teaching great.

 

[virilep]

you can be guaranteed acceptance to WUSTL med.

dem's fightin words

 

[MooMooMilieu]

Thanks so much for the responses- they were all very helpful (and you guys are so friendly)! I think I am going to go to washu- I love the school so much! To the prowler: I probably should have reworded what I said about ASU (sorry for the poor phrasing): I think it's a great school, but the prerequisite courses for applyign to med school are not up to par with those of other schools. To speedracer: I can't believe so many students dropped out in gen chem- it must really be difficult- I've also taken ap bio and chem, so I'm definitely a bit worried about that. But, I love the undergrad focus and research opps available- that's what drew me to them in the first place! Thank you for such genuine advice! I truly appreciate it.

 

[45408]

To the prowler: I probably should have reworded what I said about ASU (sorry for the poor phrasing): I think it's a great school, but the prerequisite courses for applyign to med school are not up to par with those of other schools.

Up to par? You're giving too much weight to a big name. The biggest reason I'd consider WashU would be the research opportunities - not the undergrad pre-med classes. A lot of students from "big name" schools say that their Physics 101 course is "absolutely unparalleled," but I don't put a whole lot of weight in that. I'm at a large generic state school (to save money 🙁), but in no way do I feel that my education has been sub par, and my MCAT certainly bears that out.

As for gen chem dropouts you have no idea. Gen chem was 250 people, organic 2 was under 80. More like "Look to your left, look to your right. Neither of them will be here by organic. 👍"

 

[SpeedRacer]

As for gen chem dropouts you have no idea. Gen chem was 250 people, organic 2 was under 80. More like "Look to your left, look to your right. Neither of them will be here by organic. 👍"

HAHAHAHA...sweeeet

 

[Larsitron]

I'm going to have to go and advocate the state school here. Now, granted, you may think I'm totally off my rocker because I went to the U of Arizona (which has a huge pre-med population and decent matriculation rates), but I got into the med school of my choice and I don't think I'm all that unusual.

You're going to learn the same stuff at ASU that you'll learn at WashU. If people want to argue about "quality of teaching" fine, whatever, so long as you get a good grade and learn enough to do well on the MCAT who cares? Moreover, you're going to find the research opportunities easier to get into at ASU. There's less competition and the culture there (from when I attended classes there) seems to acknowledge that there's a huge world out there that doesn't revolve around the pre-med curriculum. Plus, if you're good enough to get into WashU as an undergrad, you're probably good enough to be landing some serious scholarships at ASU and I'll tell you right now that having zero undergrad debt and utilizing the money that my parents and I had saved to send me to undergrad towards med school puts me in a pretty good position.

I've gone to public schools all my life. From what I can tell one's professional "pedigree" only really starts counting from their grad school (or professional school) onwards. The key to undergrad is working your ass off wherever you go, taking advantage of the opportunities there (which may be easier to get into at the big state school compared to the WashU type places), and just having fun.

Also, ASU is really hitting its stride in research, so don't discount it.

 

[Rezdawg]

For what its worth, here is my analysis...

I graduated from Wash U in 2002. From my experience, there are many good things as well as bad things associated with the school. If you are going to college for the sole purpose of getting your pre-med education and moving on, then I vote for ASU. If you want a more well rounded experience, go to Wash U. Let me explain...

First off, I got my ass handed to me as a premed. I was one of those kids that was fighting to just get above the mean on the exams. That translates to "fighting for a B-" which translates further to "2.7 gpa". Sure, there were times when I would do better and times when I would do worse. In the end, I was fighting a war which I did not handle well. Im currently taking Microbiology and Cell Biology at the University of Houston. Its a joke. I can study for an exam for 10 hours and get an "A" or study 5 hours and get by with a "B". At Wash U, it was more like study 20 hours for a "B" or 15 hours for a "C". Im just not that smart, relatively speaking. You have to realize that when you go to a school like Wash U, you will be encountering some of the most brilliant minds you will come across. Since everything (except physics) is on a curve, its tough to take out some of the top dogs so that you can achieve your "A". Can it be done? No doubt. However, you need to realize that your life outside of school will not be too exciting. I tried to have a life outside of school and it came back to bite me. Hard.

Therefore, if you are only concerned about the "premed" stuff, then go with ASU. I can assure you that you will find it much more bearable. At the same time, you will be saving a boatload of money that you can use on grad school. I will be paying around 300,000 over the next 4 years for grad school. I would have loved to have saved some money while in undergrad.

Now, if you want a great experience on top of the amazing education, go to Wash U. I have to say that although Wash U may have hurt my chances for getting into certain graduate school programs, I do not regret going there. The most important reason being that I had the time of my life with some of the kids there. With such a diverse student body (where else can you find a Jew, a persian, an egyptian, and an indian at a mexican restaurant?), you will encounter some of the most interesting people around. The faculty is awesome and are available for help any time you need it. Dont mean to go off topic, but is Sabotka still around? That guy was a weirdo. Anyways, the student life is great and your education will be second to none at Wash U. I wouldnt trade back any of my experiences for a higher gpa. In the end, I am still going where I want to go and I have experienced things and developed friendships that I would not have had anywhere else.

Just be ready to sack up and study. Good luck.

 

[rambo]

I think ASU is a great school. The BME program is really hitting its stride, and the new Biodesign Institute looks straight out of Men in Black. I truly believe you'll get a great education there, and the opportunities in Phoenix (Barrow, T-Gen, Biodesign) are nothing to scoff at. I think the other posters have made great points. Either way, "be ready to sack up and study" is a great way to put it.

Good luck.

 

[jjmack]

Ah...the good Dr. Sabotka. The fanny pack was amazing 😉

For what its worth, here is my analysis...

I graduated from Wash U in 2002. From my experience, there are many good things as well as bad things associated with the school. If you are going to college for the sole purpose of getting your pre-med education and moving on, then I vote for ASU. If you want a more well rounded experience, go to Wash U. Let me explain...

First off, I got my ass handed to me as a premed. I was one of those kids that was fighting to just get above the mean on the exams. That translates to "fighting for a B-" which translates further to "2.7 gpa". Sure, there were times when I would do better and times when I would do worse. In the end, I was fighting a war which I did not handle well. Im currently taking Microbiology and Cell Biology at the University of Houston. Its a joke. I can study for an exam for 10 hours and get an "A" or study 5 hours and get by with a "B". At Wash U, it was more like study 20 hours for a "B" or 15 hours for a "C". Im just not that smart, relatively speaking. You have to realize that when you go to a school like Wash U, you will be encountering some of the most brilliant minds you will come across. Since everything (except physics) is on a curve, its tough to take out some of the top dogs so that you can achieve your "A". Can it be done? No doubt. However, you need to realize that your life outside of school will not be too exciting. I tried to have a life outside of school and it came back to bite me. Hard.

Therefore, if you are only concerned about the "premed" stuff, then go with ASU. I can assure you that you will find it much more bearable. At the same time, you will be saving a boatload of money that you can use on grad school. I will be paying around 300,000 over the next 4 years for grad school. I would have loved to have saved some money while in undergrad.

Now, if you want a great experience on top of the amazing education, go to Wash U. I have to say that although Wash U may have hurt my chances for getting into certain graduate school programs, I do not regret going there. The most important reason being that I had the time of my life with some of the kids there. With such a diverse student body (where else can you find a Jew, a persian, an egyptian, and an indian at a mexican restaurant?), you will encounter some of the most interesting people around. The faculty is awesome and are available for help any time you need it. Dont mean to go off topic, but is Sabotka still around? That guy was a weirdo. Anyways, the student life is great and your education will be second to none at Wash U. I wouldnt trade back any of my experiences for a higher gpa. In the end, I am still going where I want to go, but I have experienced things and developed friendships that I would not have had anywhere else.

Just be ready to sack up and study. Good luck.

 

[Rezdawg]

Ah...the good Dr. Sabotka. The fanny pack was amazing 😉

Thats exactly what I was referring to...he had a fluorescent green one...classic.

 

[leiface]

For what its worth, here is my analysis...

I graduated from Wash U in 2002. From my experience, there are many good things as well as bad things associated with the school. If you are going to college for the sole purpose of getting your pre-med education and moving on, then I vote for ASU. If you want a more well rounded experience, go to Wash U. Let me explain...

First off, I got my ass handed to me as a premed. I was one of those kids that was fighting to just get above the mean on the exams. That translates to "fighting for a B-" which translates further to "2.7 gpa". Sure, there were times when I would do better and times when I would do worse. In the end, I was fighting a war which I did not handle well. Im currently taking Microbiology and Cell Biology at the University of Houston. Its a joke. I can study for an exam for 10 hours and get an "A" or study 5 hours and get by with a "B". At Wash U, it was more like study 20 hours for a "B" or 15 hours for a "C". Im just not that smart, relatively speaking. You have to realize that when you go to a school like Wash U, you will be encountering some of the most brilliant minds you will come across. Since everything (except physics) is on a curve, its tough to take out some of the top dogs so that you can achieve your "A". Can it be done? No doubt. However, you need to realize that your life outside of school will not be too exciting. I tried to have a life outside of school and it came back to bite me. Hard.

Therefore, if you are only concerned about the "premed" stuff, then go with ASU. I can assure you that you will find it much more bearable. At the same time, you will be saving a boatload of money that you can use on grad school. I will be paying around 300,000 over the next 4 years for grad school. I would have loved to have saved some money while in undergrad.

Now, if you want a great experience on top of the amazing education, go to Wash U. I have to say that although Wash U may have hurt my chances for getting into certain graduate school programs, I do not regret going there. The most important reason being that I had the time of my life with some of the kids there. With such a diverse student body (where else can you find a Jew, a persian, an egyptian, and an indian at a mexican restaurant?), you will encounter some of the most interesting people around. The faculty is awesome and are available for help any time you need it. Dont mean to go off topic, but is Sabotka still around? That guy was a weirdo. Anyways, the student life is great and your education will be second to none at Wash U. I wouldnt trade back any of my experiences for a higher gpa. In the end, I am still going where I want to go, but I have experienced things and developed friendships that I would not have had anywhere else.

Just be ready to sack up and study. Good luck.

Yeah! I had Sabotka last Spring for P-ChemII, you're right, he is a weirdo with a crazy mustache and likes thermo a little too much i think...

 

[Doctor&Geek]

I chickened out and dropped Sobotka. 🙁

Dr. Loomis, however, is real good.

 

[psycheout]

I graduated from Wash U a year ago and nearly died during the pre-med program. The first day of gen chem the prof literally told us: look at the person to the left of you, look to the right...

Yeah I've heard this before.

So, if you show up ready to work hard and you don't want to take like art studio classes and stuff, then do it. .... I finally accepted my failure and spent my last few years doing political science and art and was finally happy. ... Best of luck.

your implication that taking art and poly-sci somehow makes you a failure does not sit well with me. no offense, are you related to organicmlover, by chance?
Good luck to you.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Yeah I've heard this before.



your implication that taking art and poly-sci somehow makes you a failure does not sit well with me. no offense, are you related to organicmlover, by chance?
Good luck to you.

woah woah i failed at premed. i didn't fail in general. who the hell is organicmlover?

 

[Daichi Katase]

The BioDesign Institute REALLY looks like it is out of Men in Black! Rambo is not kidding. However, it will be just as hard if not more difficult to maintain your grades in the BME program.

you don't exactly need a "premed" program.