Watch the debate last night? Romney kicked his butt

[KHE]

---

Members do not see this ad.

And from the Obama campaign? What are we hearing? What's the grand plan from the Muslim in chief?

"Please donate to my campaign." "Rich people are the source of the problem," and "Be patient." That's about all I'm hearing.

I really need an explanation on that one because I've never figured out how...

McCain never attends church and that makes him a Christian.

Obama is lambasted for attending church every Sunday in the Trinity United Church of Christ for 20 years and that makes him a Muslim.

😕😕😕

But let's assume for a second that Obama is in fact a Muslim terrorist who was born in Kenya....

That essentially means that in the presidential election of 2008, we had a choice between a decorated war hero with nearly 30 years experience in the US Senate, and a foreign born Muslim terrorist.

So the Republicans did such a horrible job for 8 years that barely 7 years after September 11th and with two foreign wars still raging, the American people looked at the situation and said "you know what? We're going to give the foreign born Muslim terrorist guy a try."

How does that happen?? 😕

 

[CL Doc]

It's a good thing, Jason....now, with the government out of the student loan business, it's a perfect opportunity for the private sector banks to step right in and compete for your wife's student loan business.

I'm sure many banks will be aggressively competing with each other to forumlate the best offer to refinance that loan, all in the name of capitalism, right? I'm surprised you don't have 10 offers already.

And not only that, without the government subsidizing student loans, in order to remain competitive in the tough marketplace, colleges and universities will start to increase efficiencies so that they can lower tuition and attract the best and the brightest students.

You can't be serious...there is no way tuitions are going to be lowered.

Did any OD programs lower their tuitions this fall now that there are no longer subsidized loans for optometry? No. And why not? They can still fill every seat with a student.

That liberal flavored kool aid you're drinking may taste good but you're gonna regret the hangover when it happens.

 

[Jason K]

I really need an explanation on that one because I've never figured out how...

Obama is lambasted for attending church every Sunday in the Trinity United Church of Christ for 20 years and that makes him a Muslim.

😕😕😕

Allow me to clarify with a brief and very entertaining clip of our failure in chief:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

Also, and perhaps more importantly, Obama claims that his "good friend, mentor, and spiritual leader," Reverend Wright (who is all over the internet spewing Anti-American hate, racist hate, and decidedly radical views on just about everything you can imagine) CONVERTED him to Christianity. To use Obama's own words from a speech given in 2005, Wright "Introduced me to a guy named Jesus Christ." So, I'd ask you, if Obama was converted to Christianity as an adult, what was he before then? His father, whom he obviously idolizes, was muslim. I don't think I'm stretching the strings of possibility here when I look at some of his foreign policies regarding muslim nations, even extremist ones, and assume he has a soft spot for them in some circumstances.

But let's assume for a second that Obama is in fact a Muslim terrorist who was born in Kenya....

I never said that he was a terrorist or that he was born in Kenya. I said I think deep down, I think he's a muslim, or possibly an atheist, but he's not a Christian.

Watch some clips of Wright on youtube and tell me if you think he's actually a Christian. The guy is a racist, anti-American lunatic, and Obama considers him a "friend and mentor."

Finally, I'm still waiting for that explanation of what we are counting on with Obama in a second term. What is it he's promising that will lead us down the path to economic stability? Why will the next 4 years be any different than the last under his leadership? He's proposed nothing more than the usual liberal rhetoric, which sounds great (to liberals), but has gotten us nowhere. So, what is it that we're supposed to pin our hopes to? What's he going to do next round? (Besides throwing billions of tax dollars to radical causes since he doesn't have to worry about being re-elected.)

 

[Jason K]

I'm sure many banks will be aggressively competing with each other to forumlate the best offer to refinance that loan, all in the name of capitalism, right? I'm surprised you don't have 10 offers already.

For what it's worth, no because Obama placed limitations on students' refinance options in 2008 [corrected-2009] that will basically limit them from being able to get any financial benefit from doing so. We can consolidate, but not to a financial advantage with a lower rate.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

And from the Obama campaign? What are we hearing? What's the grand plan from the Muslim in chief?

"Please donate to my campaign." "Rich people are the source of the problem," and "Be patient." That's about all I'm hearing.

Using Muslim as a slur? 👎

 

[All4MyDaughter]

For what it's worth, no because Obama placed limitations on students' refinance options in 2008 that will basically limit them from being able to get any financial benefit from doing so. We can consolidate, but not to a financial advantage with a lower rate.

Something off about this statement... Obama was elected in 2008 but not inaugurated until 2009. So whatever change you're claiming happened in 2008 wasn't an Obama thing.

 

[Jason K]

Using Muslim as a slur? 👎

Not a muslim slur, a liar slur. If someone runs for president as a muslim, wins the election, and carries on as an American, I couldn't care less what religion he is. Obama ran as a Christian, was exposed to fudging that belief system, or at least stretching it very thin, and then shows very strange sympathy to some radical muslim extremist groups. That's not a muslim slur, it's a slur against someone who says one thing, and does another.

Something off about this statement... Obama was elected in 2008 but not inaugurated until 2009. So whatever change you're claiming happened in 2008 wasn't an Obama thing.

You're absolutely right, my date is off. It was instituted in Obama's first year in office, which was 2009.

 

[KHE]

You can't be serious...there is no way tuitions are going to be lowered.

Did any OD programs lower their tuitions this fall now that there are no longer subsidized loans for optometry? No. And why not? They can still fill every seat with a student.

That liberal flavored kool aid you're drinking may taste good but you're gonna regret the hangover when it happens.

You don't recognize sarcasm well.

 

[Tippytoe]

Would you believe Obama is a muslim if he said it with his own words. Well here you go. Specifically the slip up at 1:03 seconds. You could argue that his comment about "living in muslim country and me being one of them", he was simply talking about being a person that lived in those countries. But it's debatable. Not to mention the bowing and the speaking in awe of the muslim faith (who clearly harbors crazy radials and rarely if ever speaks out against them). Here I go with the crazy facts again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY&feature=related .

I know, it's probably Bush's fault he said it. But hey, everyone forgots what faith they are all the time, right. 🙄 BTW Ken, Bush's economy was robust for the first 7 years despite a major terrorist attack designed to bring down the nation's economy. Ironically it went bad right after the democrats came into the majority congress. Total coincidence I'm sure. Here are a few more pesky facts about the economy that Obama is exagerating (nice political word for lying) about. http://factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-economic-sleight-of-hand/

Barney Frank and his brain dead ilk are widely blamed for the housing mess by insisting every person without the ability to pay be given a home loan (Because it's "fair". Total democrat doing.

Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with being a muslim but why lie about it.

I would love to split the country into democrat on the left half and republicans on the right. What would we see? Well the democrat side would surely look like Detroit with widespread poverty (because the people will refuse to work) and crime and decay. The Repub side.......I'm guessing there would be less crime, more success, less unemployment, more education and more happiness.😉

 

[Tippytoe]

Oh well thank goodness for that realization.

This thread has taken a terrible turn.

Mostly based on the idiot (that really shouldn't even be on this thread) that said saying someone was a muslm was a 'slur'.

I have one more question for the liberals (since no one will answer any of my other questions--and I fully realize it's because liberal have no logical answers-- only blame and spin).

But riddle me this. Especially Ken but any others of you that own a private practice. How did you feel wihen Obama said, "If you've got a business – you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." (of course I realize Ken that you did buy your practice so I guess technically you didn't build it but I imagine you've made it better).

Is there possibly ANY dumber statement made by a American president (or human being) in history?

I take tremendous offense that speech. My practice was built 100% by myself and my wife. We did not have any governement official or agency give us a handout. No one paid off my loans for me. No one paid off the $200,000 I had to borrow to start the business. No neighbors or friends donated time or money. No one. Most EVERY business is this way. It's one or two people-- a mom-n-pop company where they work 12-18 hours a day, 7 days a week some times to make it successful. And they hire people. They create jobs that did not exist previously. I've created 6 jobs that did not exist before (which happens to be more than Obama has EVER created since he's never had a job or a business). And for Obama to say, "Ahhhh, welll........teachers helped you out and you didn't pave the roads", is totally idiotic. No one paved a special road to my office. No goverment teacher came to specially teach my staff.

Based on this ignorant statement alone, he is not qualifed intellectually to be a dog catcher.

 

[Tippytoe]

And please, please. Someone tell my why Romney is so bad. Tell me of his failures and lies. I need to hear them.

- Was it being a successful Republican governor who had to work with a majority democrat congress to get stuff done?
- Was is successfully rescuing the Salt Lake Olympics?
- Because he is a Mormon who doesn't drink or smoke?
- Is it because he has successful adult kids and a long-term wife?
- Is it because he believes healthy adults should work if they can instead of going to the mailbox to collect a welfare check each month?
- Is it because he believes that promoting businesses, which HIRE people, is the best way to create jobs?
- Is it because he said he is not worried about the 47% dependent-class because they won't vote for him anyway. This is a true statement-- 47% of Americans receive some form of gov't check each month (some Medicare and SS of course). Most of those people don't want their free money cut out. Getting free money is certainly easier than working for it.

WHAT?



I will be happy to list all of Obama's failures and lies (if anyone needs to hear them again).

 

[Gigan988]

I understand how it is easy to debate economic and healthcare policy between the two major candidates. I'm actually somewhat independent on economic issues. But I can give 4 good reasons I'm voting Obama over Romney:

1. Romney is politically expedient: he ran as an independent in Massachusetts, a conservative in the primaries, and as a moderate republican now. It is hard to know what his beliefs truly are.

2. I think Obama has great foreign policy and I do not want to risk the prospect of another war under Romney, who believes in preemptive strikes on nations.

3. I believe people making over half a million a year should be taxed at a higher percentage than those making less, because they can easily afford it without sacrificing quality of living.

4. I know the president has little to do with affecting social issues, but I would have difficulty voting for someone who is against abortion, who questions the theory of evolution, and who is against gay marriage.

 

[Jason K]

1. Romney is politically expedient: he ran as an independent in Massachusetts, a conservative in the primaries, and as a moderate republican now. It is hard to know what his beliefs truly are.

Obama puts his finger to the wind with many decisions, so let's not try to make Romney out to be something different than Obama. Remember when Obama opposed gay marriage? I do, but now he's all for it. I wonder if that could have anything to do with the fact that we're in an election year? Or how about saying that he opposed any tax increase during an economic recession because it would make things worse? Well, now he's all for an increase, despite having said it would be detrimental not long ago. How about his promises of transparency he ran on in 2008? Never got them. Or how about the fact that he promised to stop the irrational, wasteful spending that was carried out by the Bush administration? Well, he took office and presided over more than twice the spending rate that we saw during Bush's first term. In fact, Obama increased discretionary spending by EIGHTY FOUR percent in his first year in office. That's Eighty-Four percent more than his predecessor, who everyone loves to hate for overspending.

2. I think Obama has great foreign policy and I do not want to risk the prospect of another war under Romney, who believes in preemptive strikes on nations.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but please tell why you like Obama's foreign policy. He promised to maintain our strong ties with Israel, and then he's created more tension than we've ever experienced with any president. How about cozying up with the Muslim Brother hood, sending them billions of US tax dollars, are you good with that? Or maybe it's his blossoming friendship with Palestinian extremists, is that attractive to you? Maybe it's the funding of billions of dollars of oil drilling in Brazil and Central America that is appealing? I'm just getting started here, I can keep going. I'm not even mentioning the massive fails he's committed in both Europe and the Middle East, bowing to Saudi Kings, making us look like weak fools, and talking through "God Save the Queen," prompting her to make him look like an ldiot on the world stage. Is this the guy you admire? He makes George Bush Jr look good overseas. The biggest problem with liberals is that you guys always judge your "guy" based on what he tells you, not on what actually happens.

3. I believe people making over half a million a year should be taxed at a higher percentage than those making less, because they can easily afford it without sacrificing quality of living.

They already are. Let's not forget that Jeff Immelt, Obama's closest bosom-buddy in the corporate world, paid a grand total of zero in federal income taxes for GE last year. Nothing. Oh, I almost forgot - he also just signed on to build several factories in China, poised to compete with Boeing, who manufactures here in the states. See, a lot changes when you actually check into your hero and see what he and his buddies are doing when no one is looking.

4. I know the president has little to do with affecting social issues, but I would have difficulty voting for someone who is against abortion, who questions the theory of evolution, and who is against gay marriage.

Finally something you say that actually makes some sense. The problem is, none of these things will matter if we're all broke because the US dollar is worth 10% of what it was a decade earlier. Obama has also presided over more US currency printing than any president in history, printing billions of dollars to pay our debts to other nations, mostly China. The bubble will burst at some point, and the US dollar will become worth as much as the paper it's printed on. Actually, it's cotton, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[KHE]

I'm going to make one more attempt to have a reasonable discussion here because I feel as though I'm being painted as this far left, liberal lunatic when the fact of the matter is...

1) I voted Libertarian in the last election, not for Obama.
2) I would have voted for Bush in 2004 had I been a citizen at that time
3) I am probably voting for the Republican senate canddate in my state
4) I said that I would probably BEGRUDGINGLY vote for Obama

I have tried to defend Obama against some of the more "out there" arguments and perhaps that makes people jump to their own conclusions about my political leanings which is unfortunate because at the very least, it seems to put a spotlight on the biggest problem with our political system....that being that if you are not 100% ideologically pure, then you must be a RINO, or a "flaming libtard" or something like that.

Quick story because it also shows this point...

A couple of weeks ago, the town that I live in had their annual fall fair. People gathered in a local park and there was a fireworks display, the firetrucks were there for the kids to climb on, many of the service clubs like the girl scouts et al had little booths set up where you could be food and/or make donations.

And they also had both the local democrat and republican committees there trying to get people to register to vote.

My 3rd grader's school had a booth that was right next to the Republican booth. As I was waiting on line to buy some sort of brownie or something to support the PTA, I mistakenly made eye contact with one of the barkers from the Republican booth who quickly came over with a clipboard.

"Register to vote Republican?" He asked.

"I'm registered independent" I said with a weak smile.

"That's ok. We can fix that." (hearty laugh.)

"I would join your party but I'm hesitant because I am a doctor and I support universal health care, I'm pro-choice and I don't care if gays get married. Everything else, I'm sort of on your side. Is that ok?"

The guy then launched into a 30 second diatribe of republican talking points about the evils of Obamacare. It was obvious where this was going so as soon as I could get a word in edgewise, I told him that I was a doctor, I grew up in Canada and had lived under that system as a patient and the one here as both a provider and a patient and I had come to the conclusion that while Obamacare isn't utopia, it is overall a step in the right direction and therefore I supported it.

He walked away with a look of disgust.

I WOULD vote for Romney over Obama with respect to the economy in theory but I feel that Romney has sold his soul to Grover Norqvist and the ultra conservative wing of the party (which happens on both sides because of the primary system) and as such is advocating for the same old "trickle down" system that has been tried and has failed. Tax rates on the wealthy are near historic lows. Where is the trickling?

As far as my reaction to what Obama said about "you didn't build that" I would say that I think it was a bumbled statement that was pounced on. When you watch that entire speech (yes, I did) he was trying to make the point that no business owner has truly done it all themselves because they didn't build the road out in front of their facility, or plows the road, or maintains the sewers et. al. You can feel how you want to about that but I believe that is the point he was trying to make. So to me, I put that fumbled statement in the same category as bowing to a Chinese emperor. Who gives a crap? Considering how much China has us by the you know whats, we should be thankful that emperor didn't demand that Obama get down on his hands and knees and perform a sex act that is still illegal in 13 states.

But riddle me this. Especially Ken but any others of you that own a private practice. How did you feel wihen Obama said, "If you've got a business – you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." (of course I realize Ken that you did buy your practice so I guess technically you didn't build it but I imagine you've made it better).

Is there possibly ANY dumber statement made by a American president (or human being) in history?

I take tremendous offense that speech. My practice was built 100% by myself and my wife. We did not have any governement official or agency give us a handout. No one paid off my loans for me. No one paid off the $200,000 I had to borrow to start the business. No neighbors or friends donated time or money. No one. Most EVERY business is this way. It's one or two people-- a mom-n-pop company where they work 12-18 hours a day, 7 days a week some times to make it successful. And they hire people. They create jobs that did not exist previously. I've created 6 jobs that did not exist before (which happens to be more than Obama has EVER created since he's never had a job or a business). And for Obama to say, "Ahhhh, welll........teachers helped you out and you didn't pave the roads", is totally idiotic. No one paved a special road to my office. No goverment teacher came to specially teach my staff.

Based on this ignorant statement alone, he is not qualifed intellectually to be a dog catcher.

 

[Jason K]

I'm going to make one more attempt to have a reasonable discussion here because I feel as though I'm being painted as this far left, liberal lunatic when the fact of the matter is...

1) I voted Libertarian in the last election, not for Obama.
2) I would have voted for Bush in 2004 had I been a citizen at that time
3) I am probably voting for the Republican senate canddate in my state
4) I said that I would probably BEGRUDGINGLY vote for Obama

I have tried to defend Obama against some of the more "out there" arguments and perhaps that makes people jump to their own conclusions about my political leanings which is unfortunate because at the very least, it seems to put a spotlight on the biggest problem with our political system....that being that if you are not 100% ideologically pure, then you must be a RINO, or a "flaming libtard" or something like that.

Quick story because it also shows this point...

A couple of weeks ago, the town that I live in had their annual fall fair. People gathered in a local park and there was a fireworks display, the firetrucks were there for the kids to climb on, many of the service clubs like the girl scouts et al had little booths set up where you could be food and/or make donations.

And they also had both the local democrat and republican committees there trying to get people to register to vote.

My 3rd grader's school had a booth that was right next to the Republican booth. As I was waiting on line to buy some sort of brownie or something to support the PTA, I mistakenly made eye contact with one of the barkers from the Republican booth who quickly came over with a clipboard.

"Register to vote Republican?" He asked.

"I'm registered independent" I said with a weak smile.

"That's ok. We can fix that." (hearty laugh.)

"I would join your party but I'm hesitant because I am a doctor and I support universal health care, I'm pro-choice and I don't care if gays get married. Everything else, I'm sort of on your side. Is that ok?"

The guy then launched into a 30 second diatribe of republican talking points about the evils of Obamacare. It was obvious where this was going so as soon as I could get a word in edgewise, I told him that I was a doctor, I grew up in Canada and had lived under that system as a patient and the one here as both a provider and a patient and I had come to the conclusion that while Obamacare isn't utopia, it is overall a step in the right direction and therefore I supported it.

He walked away with a look of disgust.

I WOULD vote for Romney over Obama with respect to the economy in theory but I feel that Romney has sold his soul to Grover Norqvist and the ultra conservative wing of the party (which happens on both sides because of the primary system) and as such is advocating for the same old "trickle down" system that has been tried and has failed. Tax rates on the wealthy are near historic lows. Where is the trickling?

As far as my reaction to what Obama said about "you didn't build that" I would say that I think it was a bumbled statement that was pounced on. When you watch that entire speech (yes, I did) he was trying to make the point that no business owner has truly done it all themselves because they didn't build the road out in front of their facility, or plows the road, or maintains the sewers et. al. You can feel how you want to about that but I believe that is the point he was trying to make. So to me, I put that fumbled statement in the same category as bowing to a Chinese emperor. Who gives a crap? Considering how much China has us by the you know whats, we should be thankful that emperor didn't demand that Obama get down on his hands and knees and perform a sex act that is still illegal in 13 states.

I have yet to read anything, by an poster on this thread, that would suggest any of the anti-Obama sentiment comes from far-right republicans. All of the criticism has been directly related to his policies and the flaws within them. I'm not republican, democrat, liberal, or conservative. I have a mix of views, as do you, on the economy and social issues. But I also want to hear more than just "cool" speeches, when it comes to the financial future that lay ahead of us. "Investing in our future" sounds great, but it means nothing.

So, again, you've nailed Romney for being vague on his plan, and he certainly deserves that, but at least he has one. At least he has a business-minded, successful track record to point to. Obama has nothing of the sort. If I have to pick one of these two people to lead economic repair, I'm going with the guy who has a couple of decades' experience in starting and managing a successful company.

To subscribe to Obama's financial plans means you must believe we're currently on the right path. Are we? What is it, in Obama's plan for the economy, that will turn things around? When will the magic curtain lift, and all of a sudden, the downward trend we've been on for years will suddenly turn around? There must be something, so what is it? That's all I'm asking. With the economy in more fragile shape than ever, why do you believe Obama's policies, which haven't done anything to date, except waste money, will help.

I'm being completely sincere here, since this is precisely what baffles me about Obama supporters. Many look at him with adoration and hope, as if he's done great things for the last 4 years, when in fact, he's not done much of anything except waste money. I'll give you the 7 ft tall terrorist assassination. He nailed it. What else? What has he got up his sleeve that I'm missing? Tell me why I should expect better things from his policies, in the next term, than we saw this past one. You, yourself have said conservative economic theory has failed, so why do you trust Obama's failed history preferentially?

 

[Gigan988]

Obama puts his finger to the wind with many decisions, so let's not try to make Romney out to be something different than Obama. Remember when Obama opposed gay marriage? I do, but now he's all for it. I wonder if that could have anything to do with the fact that we're in an election year? Or how about saying that he opposed any tax increase during an economic recession because it would make things worse? Well, now he's all for an increase, despite having said it would be detrimental not long ago. How about his promises of transparency he ran on in 2008? Never got them. Or how about the fact that he promised to stop the irrational, wasteful spending that was carried out by the Bush administration? Well, he took office and presided over more than twice the spending rate that we saw during Bush's first term. In fact, Obama increased discretionary spending by EIGHTY FOUR percent in his first year in office. That's Eighty-Four percent more than his predecessor, who everyone loves to hate for overspending.

Varying charts and statistics show Obama spending a lower rate than Bush or Reagan, but others show Obama spending slightly more than Bush. I find it difficult to find good statistics on this because conservative sites and liberal sites present completely contradictory statistics from one another. But no source except maybe Fox News claims he spent "more than twice the spending rate" and certainly not by 84%. The transparency issue you raise is a fair enough point.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but please tell why you like Obama's foreign policy. He promised to maintain our strong ties with Israel, and then he's created more tension than we've ever experienced with any president. How about cozying up with the Muslim Brother hood, sending them billions of US tax dollars, are you good with that? Or maybe it's his blossoming friendship with Palestinian extremists, is that attractive to you? Maybe it's the funding of billions of dollars of oil drilling in Brazil and Central America that is appealing? I'm just getting started here, I can keep going. I'm not even mentioning the massive fails he's committed in both Europe and the Middle East, bowing to Saudi Kings, making us look like weak fools, and talking through "God Save the Queen," prompting her to make him look like an ldiot on the world stage. Is this the guy you admire? He makes George Bush Jr look good overseas. The biggest problem with liberals is that you guys always judge your "guy" based on what he tells you, not on what actually happens.

This whole paragraph is a load of nonsense and propaganda. Obama having any association with the Muslim brotherhood is BS. You don't really mention anything which is true, except that he bowed to Saudi kings as a form of handshake for mutual leader respect, but not in a sense that a Ming dynasty citizen would bow to his emperor. Then you proceeded to use a straw man argument that I'm a liberal and that I have some sort of giddy admiration for Obama, when I'm a moderate democrat.
I am a fan of Obama's policy because it involves diplomacy first and sending in soldiers secondly and only when necessary. The attack on Libya was headed by the U.N. and we never once put ground troops there. Under Obama's presidency Osama Bin Laden was caught. We are ending the war in Iraq which was largely an unnecessary involvement. Obama has done nothing wrong in this respect.

They already are. Let's not forget that Jeff Immelt, Obama's closest bosom-buddy in the corporate world, paid a grand total of zero in federal income taxes for GE last year. Nothing. Oh, I almost forgot - he also just signed on to build several factories in China, poised to compete with Boeing, who manufactures here in the states. See, a lot changes when you actually check into your hero and see what he and his buddies are doing when no one is looking.

This made me lol, you sound like Sean Hannity.

Finally something you say that actually makes some sense. The problem is, none of these things will matter if we're all broke because the US dollar is worth 10% of what it was a decade earlier. Obama has also presided over more US currency printing than any president in history, printing billions of dollars to pay our debts to other nations, mostly China. The bubble will burst at some point, and the US dollar will become worth as much as the paper it's printed on. Actually, it's cotton, but that's neither here nor there.

Some of what you say here is true, except to say that the U.S. dollar is only worth 10% of what it was in 2002 is an exaggeration. We do need to cut some welfare programs, foreign spending, and create jobs in the U.S. to prevent this. We need to produce more factories, oil refineries, and small businesses to really kick the economy up and the deficit down, and to reduce unemployment. I am an independent economically and this is why you calling Obama my "hero" and me a "liberal" is just showing angry words.

 

[pingouin]

This thread has gone way off course. Closing.