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wayne state, thoughts?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by IcedCube, Apr 28, 2004.

  1. IcedCube

    IcedCube Senior Member
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    for any current students, i'd like to hear your thoughts...

    1) how generous is financial aid? loans? how much grant money?

    2) clinical education sounds great, being the only school in urban detroit. nationally recognized hospitals in henry ford,dmc, & beaumont. how has your experience been?

    3) huge class size. good/bad? non/competitive? how can you distinguish yourself (honors? aoa?) ?

    4) hows the social scene? i know most live in royal oak.

    5) how are your grades accessed during rotations? is it H/P/F for 4 yrs?

    6) i saw the 2003 residency matches. rather impressive. how many students get their top choice?
     
  2. rmp

    rmp Member
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    bump bump bump
     
  3. ddmo

    ddmo BMF
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    bump.......
     
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  4. Maxip

    Maxip Member
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    bump again. sorry.
     
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  5. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    I hope someone answers. I am also interested...
     
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  6. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    anyone????????????
     
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  7. Laz

    Laz Member
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    wayne started monday...maybe thats why no ones around :)
     
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  8. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    Wow, they start early... orientation week or classes?
     
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  9. Laz

    Laz Member
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    orientation
     
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  10. Soleil9

    Soleil9 Senior Member
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    Anyone around to reply now?
     
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  11. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    perhaps now that ddmore is a student at wayne he/she can answer a few of these....
     
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  12. ddmo

    ddmo BMF
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    Fun, thanks for the heads up. I'll reply later as I have an awesome lecture by a Trauma Surgeon to go to right now.
     
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  13. CanIMakeIt

    CanIMakeIt Fellow
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    I have an interview coming up next week ........ so please post the answers to the important questions posted above :D

    May be I will see you there .......
     
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  14. ddmo

    ddmo BMF
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    1) how generous is financial aid? loans? how much grant money?

    I think there are about maybe 15 merit scholarships. In terms of financial aid, it is need based according to your parents income. Doesn't make sense to me since I pay my own way regardless, but their mindset is that you have the ability to borrow from parents. Because mine make too much money, I don't get financial aid, so I really don't know much about that aspect.

    2) clinical education sounds great, being the only school in urban detroit. nationally recognized hospitals in henry ford,dmc, & beaumont. how has your experience been?

    I am only an MSI, so my clinical exposure isn't huge. However, my clinical medicine class is located in Henry Ford and it is really cool to go hang out in an actual hospital once a week. Not to mention that my mentor is a division Chief at Henry Ford, so I have rounded with him a couple of times. My 4th year friends only rave about the clinical exposure you receive at Wayne. I know people who practically have their own patients since many of the residents are so overworked in some hospitals. One friend is currently doing electives in other hospitals and claims that it isn't uncommon for him to be teaching interns and residents procedures that he has been doing a long time here. With 18 associated hospitals in one geographic area you can't go wrong, and Wayne is appropriatly known for producing excellent clinicians.

    3) huge class size. good/bad? non/competitive? how can you distinguish yourself (honors? aoa?) ?

    Honestly, the "huge" class size isn't a factor to me at all. It's not like it makes a difference how many people are sitting next to you during a lecture. You can have as much interaction with professors as you want. They always stay after lecture for questions, and respond to emails really quickly. Not to mention that we split into smaller labs for more one on one interaction with faculty. If anything, I like the big class size as it provides that many more people to get to know. The more people there is, the more people you are going to become friends with.
    I would consider Wayne moderatly competitive. Since the grading is statistical, you really are going against other people in terms of your grade. (However, there is a guarunteed pass rate of 75% correct). But, it's not ultra competitive to the extent of people sabotaging other students or being unfriendly. For the most part everyone is really freindly and willing to help out if you ask. That is by far my favorite thing is that the people here are generally cool, and I feel comfortable around them. People are serious, but they don't get off on braging about how many publications they have, or what their grades are.
    You distinguish yourself just like any other school; do better than other students, try and get AOA, do well on your clerkships, and have leadership roles. The point is, that I think many students miss, is that you are being compared to other students no matter where you go. Every school has a ranking of their students, you may only get H/P/F, but the school knows what you exact percentage points are.

    4) hows the social scene? i know most live in royal oak.

    I like the social scene a lot. Not all live in Royal Oak, I live downtown with about 25% of the other students. Maybe 50% are in RO and another 25% are elsewhere. If you like hanging out, then we have parties after every unit either downtown or in RO. No worries about the social scene.

    5) how are your grades accessed during rotations? is it H/P/F for 4 yrs?

    This I don't know. But I would assume so????? I'd ask my 4th year friends, but they are all out of town.

    6) i saw the 2003 residency matches. rather impressive. how many students get their top choice?

    I don't even know if the school has this info. exactly. Also important is that you shouldn't necessarily go by many of these figures as people mostly apply to programs they think they'll get accepted in. Regardless, Wayne does have some pretty awesome matches, lots of radiology/surgery/etc. The nice thing about Wayne compared to other urban schools is that there are all these hospitals and you aren't competing against other schools for exposure. Look at Boston, Chicago, Philly, DC, .......... where there are multiple schools, here you have the ability to network at a lot of different hospitals before the match, if you want to stay here.



    Overall, I really like Wayne. I thought long and hard between MSU-CHM and Wayne and let me say that with every day I am only more resolute in the decision I made. I have the unique perspective in that my girlfriend is at MSU so I know the way their curriculum works, and how are is, and I love the way things work here. Let's just say she wishes she was here somedays, while I never feel the converse.

    Interesting tid-bit.... So today we got a lecture from a trauma surgeon who has not only operated on Time magazine cover figures, and been involved in historic trauma events, but is actually one of the physicians for the International Space Station with Nasa. In the past two weeks he had to miss cadaver lab, why... because he was in Russia twice with Nasa, and is going back this week. Really cool. Anyways, hoped this helped some.
     
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  15. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    Thanks a lot ddmoore! I am now in the same position... I will have to make a choice between wayne and MSU. I have no idea how I am going to do it. My gf will also be at MSU next year (2 years behind me in a diff program) so I have a lot of pressure on me to pick MSU.

    If you don't mind me asking, what does your gf not like about MSU?

    What are the major factors that led you to pick wayne over MSU?


    THANKS AGAIN!
     
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  16. ddmo

    ddmo BMF
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    Ok, first and foremost, the major thing not to like about MSU is the way in which the curriculum is scheduled. They pretty much have exams at least once a week, and take about twice the number of classes that we do in a given unit. Whereas, we for the most part can concentrate on 2 classes (which have a bunch of components like embryo is part of histo, etc.), and have exams once a month. She spends most of her time like a chicken with its head cut off, worrying about the next exam coming up. Since they are so close to eachother, you pretty much just go from cramming one topic, to cramming the next. We on the other hand can chill out a little for the first couple weeks after an exam, and can concentrate on learning both topics as a whole without needing to cram either one of them. This is also beneficial, especially in anatomy, because although there is more material on the exams, the more you cover in sectional anatomy, the more it starts to come together and make sense. The only time I can ever understand head and neck, upper limb, thorax, etc. is after we learn it all and I can stand back and see how everything fits together. This approach definitely helps remembering the stuff long term.

    It seems to me a lot of people are shy of Wayne because of Detroit, and prefer to live in E. Lansing. 1) I think Detroit is a lot of fun and enjoy living downtown. It is an entirly new experience to me. 2) It's not like you have a ton of time to hang out like in undergrad.

    Finally, I am interested in something like surgery, radiology, ent, etc.. and I spoke to a variety of doctors and asked their opinions. Below are their answers.

    Specialty (their school) and Opinion on which school I should attend
    ENT (wayne) Wayne
    Gen. Surgeon (MSU-CHM) Wayne
    Trauman Surgeon (Boston U.) Wayne
    Ortho (wayne) Wayne

    When you have a surgeon from MSU-CHM tell you Wayne produces the best doctors in the state, you have to take that seriously. Not to mention that I was certain I could receive more clinical experience at Wayne, which isn't to say people don't specialize form MSU.

    Finally, MSU-CHM has PBL. That is just not my thing. Give me the material, let me learn it, and let's get on with it. Overall, the only things making me want to go to MSU were its environment and the fact my gf was there. In the end I had to realize that my education as a physician was most important, so I chose Wayne. If I could do it again, I would choose it a thousand more times.
     
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  17. ddmo

    ddmo BMF
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    Fun,

    I just saw you got accepted to Wayne today, haha. Congrats. I too was in the first acceptance bunch. Any more ?'s about WSU-SOM, let me know.
     
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  18. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    Thanks :) Yeah, I feel quite lucky so far.... I don't have to worry anymore!

    I would PM you, but perhaps asking the questions here will help other people as well....

    I was wondering, what is your schedule like right now? How many hours a day do you have lecture? how many hours a week do you have lab?

    I heard like 60 poeple failed the first anatomy exam. Is this true? Why do u think this happened?

    Do you have time to see your gf? Do you have time to have fun?

    What is your feel about the research there? Do you think you will be able to get involved (if you want to)?

    THANKS!
     
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  19. ddmo

    ddmo BMF
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    Typical Day

    Histo or Embryo Lecture or lab 10-12
    Lunch
    Anatomy Lecture 1-2
    Anatomy Lab 2-5

    or no anatomy lab plus an extra hour of anatomy

    Typically about 7-12 hours of anatomy lab a week

    60 people failed because statistically they were 1 standard deviation below the mean and did not meet the guarunteed pass rate of 75% questions right. Why? I have no idea, maybe they weren't prepared for the material. My take on it is that you have to actively fail, in the sense that you make an active effort not to study. Passing is not that difficult, while honors is pretty hard.

    I have time to see my gf because I make time. I study hard during the week, so I take most weekends off except a couple hours, unless it is the weekend before an exam, like this one coming up.

    There is plenty of research if that's what you want to do. I have friends getting their PhD's at the med school in things like biochem. Wayne is ranked in the top 20 for NIH funding and is ranked #1 for OB/GYN funding. Not to mention the access you have to the doctors of all the hospitals and the clinical research they do.

    As for the dean, I know a lot of rumors, but since I can't confirm them first hand I won't post them. Basically, it came down to disagreements between the dean and the board of directors over the DMC.
     
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  20. CanIMakeIt

    CanIMakeIt Fellow
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    Thanks ddmoore for all that info... :D

    :luck: for exams

    later
     
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  21. virilep

    virilep What can Brown do for u?
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    the only thing I know about wayne state is that there is a really hot girl in the second year class. there were a bunch of them on the same cruise and they all loved going to wayne. so i'm assuming the cool kids they were they wouldn't be lying! gluck
     
  22. LauraMac

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    just called today, and i've been accepted to wayne. woohoo! this is my first one, so now i can chill out cause i know i'm gonna be a doctor one way or another. :)
     
  23. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    congrats :)
     
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  24. LauraMac

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    thanks! how is the decision making between wayne and msu going for you?
     
  25. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    I have no clue what I am going to do!! There are pros and cons to each school... I am going to have to think long and hard about this one...
     
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  26. ddmo

    ddmo BMF
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    Don't worry, I made my decision at 11:47pm before the deadline.
     
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  27. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    oh my! wow! :laugh:

    i think i will end up putting it off too... .
     
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  28. lotanna

    lotanna Child of God
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    @fun8stuff, PM me, I'm at CHM 1st yr, i can give u the lowdown, pros and cons.
    @ddmoore, I prob know your gf, especially if she's a classmate :D

    The exams do have their cons, but what schl will u have classmates emailing their 20pg notes to the rest of the class on a weekly basis. Med schl is hard enough as is, would u choose a schl were u are graded according to class mean, or according to a set standard... :p
     
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  29. ddmo

    ddmo BMF
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    We are keeping things in the open so everyone can read and hopefully get some info.


    As far as the notes and stuff, we do share things here at Wayne. However, we receive a complete set of notes before the semester and all of the exam questions come right from the notes. You can study only the notes and get honors if you know them well enough. I personally don't use outside sources except for some atlases because most of the time more sources just means more distractions. We also don't need scribe services or things like that because all of our lectures are in video format on the internet. Thus, there is just no reason that anybody would even feel the need to send out 20 pages worth of notes here.

    As far as the curve, you are being ranked against every one of your classmates whether it is a set standard or not. It doesn't matter whether your score is statistical or a percentage, the school knows who is beating who, which they need to for the Dean's letter and AOA. Not to mention that we have a guaranteed 75% pass rate. I heard you guys just took an anatomy written exam where the avg. was a 72%, which is failing. That means over half the class failed that exam. That just doesn't happen at Wayne. If the test was poorly written and the avg. was 50%, then getting a 50% would be a pass. Not that this ever happens, our avgs. tend to be above 80% which is supposedly high compared to past classes.
     
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  30. LauraMac

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    my personal thoughts just based on my interviews:

    MSU:
    pros - really care about their students and community, patient/doctor relationship super important to them, the actual interview day was much better organized and they were much nicer to us, everyone there seemed to like it, i know tons of ppl living in east lansing already

    cons - no hospitals in east lansing, having to do rotations elsewhere, not as "scientific" as i'd like

    Wayne:
    pros - awesome clinical experience in detroit, i already know 3 students there, everyone there seemed to like it

    cons - in detroit, the actual interview day was too brief - just a short interview and short tour w/ no financial aid presentation or anything else, no one once mentioned that they were concerned about teaching us how to interact with our patients which is most important to me


    i guess what it should come down to for each person making this decision is whether primary care, patient/doctor relationship, etc. is more important or whether research, good hospitals, etc. is more important. not having a hospital there for msu, and not acting like they cared about the patient/doctor relationship at all at wayne were two things that turned me off about each school. in-state tuition at each school makes me like them more, though. :)
     
  31. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    do students at MSU receive a complete set of notes before the semester?
     
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  32. dancinjenn

    dancinjenn I'm ready for my close up
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    Hey all, just thought I'd let you know that you can ask me questions also, I am a first year at Wayne also. I also give tours to interviewees so feedback would be great on the general tour/info. I know that the day isn't set up to be very long...but I can pass on suggestions to those in charge as well. As to why the day isn't so packed is because Wayne usually has interviews every day of the week, at least during the fall. Hope to see some of you in the fall!
     
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  33. lotanna

    lotanna Child of God
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    Correction, the average on that exam was a 83.7 for lecture, lab was 82 or so. SO what happens when rest of the class does great and class average is a 90, and u get a 75??
    What that means is that what I get wont affect my other classmates so it cuts down competition because rest of the class can get a 100, as long as I've past a 78 I'm ok, and its a 75 for the other classes.
    Point being we can go on and on about why our schl is the best. Thats expected, and thats why we ended up were we are.

    @fun8, yeah its called a coursepack :D , its real thick and full of wonderful knowledge, Most schls have it, plus our lectures are available online anyway to download. We also have open access to most of our old exams. MSU and Wayne are 2 schls with completely different systems.

    @Laura, u can still get clinical experience, as 1st yrs we also do stuff like 24hr on call for Ob-GYN, EM, surgery and stuff. I spent a lot of time volunteering at Wayne, and loved having the hospitals around, but at the end of the day, I wanted an environment that I felt was nuturing(which may be different for others), and so thats why I chose MSU. I do interviews, and pretty much what u saw interview day is how it is, stuff is hard but folks are generally happy.

    MSU
    Pros: Supportive environment, you are not alone, and everyone here does their best to support you along the way
    : P/F, straight pass or fail, not graded based on class mean, so folks could care less what class mean is. I like being graded on my ability to do well, my biggest competitior should be myself
    :Option for extended 5yr program, no real valid reason needed, they realize some learn different from others and people are coming from different backgrounds
    :Exceptional patient/physician clinical skills, it takes great interpersonal skills also to be a doctor.
    : Best Radiology dept in Michigan, One of best Radiology depts in the country( and they have a ton of research going on, especially with cancer)
    : Wonderful student learning facility(where you had your interviews), 24/7 access, complete with study rooms, and relaxation area.
    :pBL curriculum 2nd yr, which helps u integrate basic sciences you learned 1st yr.

    Cons: No hospitals
    : Not overall focus on research, some depts like radiology have exceptional ones.
    : Exams every Monday, which can also be seen as a pro, because if you fail one exam, or even 2(unless its half a semester biochem/genetics), you are not done for, plus it keeps you studyin. The failing exam thing is good for Anatomy and Physiology/Histo


    At the end of the day consider yourself lucky, cause its hard enough getting accepted to med schl, you will be a doctor, pick whatever environment you consider best fit for you as an individual not what I or anyone on here tells you. What may work for us might not necessarily work for you.
     
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  34. dancinjenn

    dancinjenn I'm ready for my close up
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    I think a clarification is needed about Wayne grades. We do have a guaranteed pass of 75% so no matter if the class avg is 80% you still pass with a 75%. Our tests have all had avg's of above 75% so far. However most of the pass rates have been below 75% because they don't like to fail a whole host of students that may be in the 70-74% range. Fom the reports I have heard from advisors they usually only fail 20 or so people..that means that the pass rate can vary from year to year.
     
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  35. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    Thanks for your guys' info!
     
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  36. AStudent

    AStudent Senior Member
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    I'm going to bump this bad boy.

    I go to MSU and I've been waitlisted preinterview and accepted at Wayne. After reading this thread, speaking to students at both CHM and WSUCOM, and looking at all the pros/cons I've decided to withdraw all other offers and attend Wayne State this fall. I'm looking forward to getting out of East Lansing to spread my wings a bit.

    Go Warriors/Tartars :cool:



    Personally:

    MSUCHM
    pros: Big Ten college town, great social life, cheap and nice housing, beautiful campus (5000+ acres), close to my gf that goes to MSU and is 1 year younger in the business school, great primary care rankings, students all live within 10 minutes of each other, COM students to chill with.

    cons: Medical school relocation, possibility to do rotations in the UP, ugly buildings, students seem really stressed out with little breaks, early exams (7am), limited parking, those DPPS parking nazis still owe me money, near my girlfriend.


    WSUCOM:
    pros: Great clinical opportunities, students seem very personaable and friendly, students actually seem to care about one another (not that CHM students don't I've just never seen this behavior before in any other school), 1/4 of my class will be from my undergrad institution, parking is easy, profs seem to go out of their way to ensure success of the students, close to home.

    cons: The facilities in the school are a little behind other schools I've visited, Downtown Detroit and 194 during rush hour, uber large class size, aging urban campus.
     
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  37. No1Cub17

    No1Cub17 Junior Member
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    HAHA - "cons: near my gf" - that's freaking classic.
    I interview at Wayne next week - any suggestions/advice? It's my top choice right now...
     
  38. sistahnik

    sistahnik Senior Member
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    No1cub17 just make sure you go to the interview! you might just decide to go there instead. g'luck to ya. :luck:
     
  39. AStudent

    AStudent Senior Member
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    Oh yeah, one more reason to choose WSU over MSU.

    CAPA.


    You'll understand someday.....
     
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  40. fun8stuff

    fun8stuff *hiding from patients*
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    capa?
     
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  41. AStudent

    AStudent Senior Member
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    MSUCHM/COM student have to do online homework called CAPA.

    Anyone who goes to MSU can tell you it's the bane of their existance.

     
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