Wayne vs Toledo

[b3nz3n3ring]

I'm currently choosing between these two programs and looking for advice/someone to bounce ideas off of. I definitely prefer Detroit as a city and love the urban environment but I really don't think I can justify the cost difference between both schools. As far as my career interests go, I've always had a strong interest in an academic IM residency which would allow me to match into a good fellowship program (particularly heme/onc or cards), but I would like to keep doors open in case my interests change. As far as long term plans, I don't have a high interest in staying in either city for longer than med school and would try to work pretty hard to match somewhere I'd like to stay in the long run.

Wayne State (280k tuition/360k COA)
Pros:
- Higher ranked (#65, so marginal?)
- More access to research/7x more research funding
- More diverse clinical rotations/urban medicine/rotation sites are better
- Larger and more vibrant city, WAY better for a young single person with better nightlife/sports culture
- Many student orgs focused on urban health
- Somewhat more well known in the Midwest

Cons:
- Notably more expensive (at least 120k but probably more like 150k)
- Curriculum being changed, students say not by much?
- Matches many students at community programs in Detroit, maybe due to self selection bias
- H/P/F grading with internal rankings and AOA in preclinical years

Toledo (175k tuition/235k COA)
Pros:
- In state tuition after 1 year lowers cost
- Collaborative environment, students seem pretty chill
- Matches decently well in IM and overall
- Systems based, traditional curriculum
- P/F preclinical with NO internal ranking

Cons:
- Lower ranked (#118)
- AOA determined by 3rd year grades adds stress to that year
- Not much research, would likely need to look at other institutions (UM, OSU, Case are all close-ish. Is this even possible?)
- Required 8 weeks of rural rotations
- Rotation sites overall are limited
- City is really not that great, I liked Detroit a lot more

Nonfactors between the two: distance from family (equal), personal fit, class size

Would anyone be able to comment if Wayne’s higher ranking is enough to justify the increased tuition? I feel like it probably isn’t, but would love opinions on that.

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[Banco]

150k more? I dunno, that's a tough pill to swallow.

You can get to academic IM from Toledo. You also have a pretty solid amount of matches into more competitive specialties too: Match Day Results: 2020

 

[b3nz3n3ring]

150k more? I dunno, that's a tough pill to swallow.

You can get to academic IM from Toledo. You also have a pretty solid amount of matches into more competitive specialties too: Match Day Results: 2020

Agreed, I think for me since I can probably get to where I want to go (any tier of academic IM that is in a more desirable location), my choice seems to come down to "is it worth saving 150k to spend 4 years in Toledo"

Also, if anyone could comment on finding research at external programs I would be thankful. I'm not sure if this is possible or just wishful thinking.

 

[Banco]

Agreed, I think for me since I can probably get to where I want to go (any tier of academic IM that is in a more desirable location), my choice seems to come down to "is it worth saving 150k to spend 4 years in Toledo"

Also, if anyone could comment on finding research at external programs I would be thankful. I'm not sure if this is possible or just wishful thinking.

Get in touch with current students and see how their experience has been. For IM, my hunch is that you likely can find more than enough research at Toledo itself.

 

[b3nz3n3ring]

@TheDataKing I am particularly interested in your thoughts if you have a minute

 

[TheDataKing]

Toledo

 

[sadie22590]

Given that you are interested in academic IM for future career I would say Wayne State. Something unique about Wayne that I'm not sure if Toledo would offer is that they have so many diverse cases that may come up during your clinical years due to Wayne's location and underserved communities it works with. The clinical training you'll receive at Wayne will likely be better than Toledo and allow you to get more publications because of greater number of interesting clinical cases.

 

[Rheopecty]

Toledo. Your future wallet will thank you.

 

[b3nz3n3ring]

Given that you are interested in academic IM for future career I would say Wayne State. Something unique about Wayne that I'm not sure if Toledo would offer is that they have so many diverse cases that may come up during your clinical years due to Wayne's location and underserved communities it works with. The clinical training you'll receive at Wayne will likely be better than Toledo and allow you to get more publications because of greater number of interesting clinical cases.

This is an interesting point that I hadn't considered. I am mostly interested in matching academic IM as a stepping stone for fellowships (realizing that I would have a tough time matching to a top tier residency from either school and am fine with any degree of academic IM and that's okay), and to my knowledge that is not very competitive and doesn't require a high degree of research? Agree with your point about Wayne clinical training being better.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Toledo sounds like the best choice for you based on what you’ve said. If you just like being in Detroit, but don’t see yourself being there long-term, you could always just do a weekend trip up there, as it‘s an hour drive up from Toledo. You’re right about Wayne’s close match record. They want IS and Midwestern students with ties to Michigan to stay in Michigan.