Well Crud

[Barts]

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While doing all of my transcripts I ordered a copy for myself as well as AACOM. My mail came about an hour ago and yikes! I didn't remember doing so poorly in 1986. I took 27 credits with an average of 1.4. That is going to bring my GPA down to around a 2.7-2.8 (loosely figured). I knew I did bad back then, but I didn't remember it being THAT bad. 👎 Anyway, I was going to apply early but now I'm not sure if I should retake some of those courses instead. The real killers are D's or F's in History, Sociology, Psycology, Textiles (lol) and other non-science courses. Just being young, drunk, and stupid at the time might cost me now, how depressing...anyway, if anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate it! My recent coursework is what my GPA on MDApps is based on--guess I'll refigure it now that i have my old transcript from '86.

 

[relentless11]

While doing all of my transcripts I ordered a copy for myself as well as AACOM. My mail came about an hour ago and yikes! I didn't remember doing so poorly in 1986. I took 27 credits with an average of 1.4. That is going to bring my GPA down to around a 2.7-2.8 (loosely figured). I knew I did bad back then, but I didn't remember it being THAT bad. 👎 Anyway, I was going to apply early but now I'm not sure if I should retake some of those courses instead. The real killers are D's or F's in History, Sociology, Psycology, Textiles (lol) and other non-science courses. Just being young, drunk, and stupid at the time might cost me now, how depressing...anyway, if anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate it! My recent coursework is what my GPA on MDApps is based on--guess I'll refigure it now that i have my old transcript from '86.

I really think you should be OK especially applying to DO schools because those grades are 20 years old! If you apply to a school that screens for apps then you MIGHT run into some problems, but again its 20 years old. A lot can happen in a year, let alone 2 decades. Clearly your GPA has improved.

 

[zek]

If everything else on your application looks good then I'm sure most schools would overlook a couple bad semesters 20 years ago.

 

[Barts]

Thanks for your thoughts, I sure hope you both are right. I have a bad feeling though that I will get some rejections based on what my overall GPA will be (the schools that do screen). Anyway, I appreciate your input and I think I will probably give it a shot this time around and hope for the best. Of course any other opinions are welcomed also! 🙂

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Thanks for your thoughts, I sure hope you both are right. I have a bad feeling though that I will get some rejections based on what my overall GPA will be (the schools that do screen).

I think you already understand the issue perfectly. I'm sure some schools "pre-screen" applications in the admissions office and, if you're below cut-offs, your application never gets forwarded to an admissions committee member. I suspect (but I don't know anything about it) that "pre-screening" is probably much less common with osteopathic schools. You may get screened-out unfairly at a few schools, but I wouldn't let that keep you from applying - it was years ago and you've done great work since then - many schools will see that.

If you don't get in this cycle (although I suspect you will), you could always go back and re-take a few of those "D" and/or "F" courses - since AACOMAS will replace grades, you could fix the problem pretty quickly (as long as you can survive the boredom). Good luck!

 

[Barts]

I think you already understand the issue perfectly. I'm sure some schools "pre-screen" applications in the admissions office and, if you're below cut-offs, your application never gets forwarded to an admissions committee member. I suspect (but I don't know anything about it) that "pre-screening" is probably much less common with osteopathic schools. You may get screened-out unfairly at a few schools, but I wouldn't let that keep you from applying - it was years ago and you've done great work since then - many schools will see that.

If you don't get in this cycle (although I suspect you will), you could always go back and re-take a few of those "D" and/or "F" courses - since AACOMAS will replace grades, you could fix the problem pretty quickly (as long as you can survive the boredom). Good luck!

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, that is pretty much exactly what I have decided to do-apply early and hope for the best. At first I was going to just retake most of those old classes and wait and apply next year, but I am ready to move on so I'm really hoping that things will work out this round. If not though I guess I know what needs to be done 😉

Thanks again all, I think you really helped push me into just going for it this year instead of trying to better those old grades first. *crosses fingers* 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

I really think you should be OK especially applying to DO schools because those grades are 20 years old! If you apply to a school that screens for apps then you MIGHT run into some problems, but again its 20 years old. A lot can happen in a year, let alone 2 decades. Clearly your GPA has improved.

Agree with what has been said in this thread. Some schools will screen, while others will take note of the fact that your more recent abilities are better than your ancient ones. But if you do decide to apply currently, apply broadly and to a lot of places.

 

[ShyRem]

Some DO schools were forgiving of my 20 year old poor grades (I had like a 1.7 from 1985, no kidding). Some were not. Some were not willing to see that I was taking a very heavy course load of tough courses and still did quite well (I restarted everything and graduated with a 3.5+ in three years).

I cannot emphasize the "apply broadly" enough. Schools that I thought would look past the 20 year old crap did not. Another thing: write really great essays. It helps.

 

[Megalofyia]

I know that Texas offers a program where you can drop grades that are over a decade old. I dont know if other states do that too.
I would also suggest calling specific schools you are interested in and developing a relationship with the deans of admissions. Networking never hurts.
ShyRem is right in applying broadly. I was interviewed at schools I never thought would give me a second look and not at schools I felt I was a shoe in.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Another thing: write really great essays. It helps.

That is such an important point. My personal theory is that every admissions committee has one or two members who are skeptical about non-traditional applicants (at least, skeptical about us *old* non-trads), even if it's not politically correct to say so. A non-trad has to have acceptable grades and MCAT, but the essay is soooo important. It's your chance to tell your story, remove doubts, and knock 'em over. Give the essay the time and attention it deserves, and don't be shy to show your passion!!

 

[Barts]

Wow, really great posts everyone! Thank you all so much, I really appreciate all of the wonderful tips and advice. 🙂

 

[RxnMan]

I think you already understand the issue perfectly. I'm sure some schools "pre-screen" applications in the admissions office and, if you're below cut-offs, your application never gets forwarded to an admissions committee member. I suspect (but I don't know anything about it) that "pre-screening"...

I'd like to comment, just for reader education, about the extremely negative experiences I've had with this.

I've talked with admissions departments about my situation and despite not meeting their ugrad GPA cut-off, I have been encouraged to apply - I was someone their school would want to interview (I investigated every school I applied to to make sure it was worth the effort and I wouldn't be cut out early). Several months later (after paying my secondary fees) I would be rejected without an interview. Funnier still, THE person I spoke with would be the one to explain to me that I did not make the cut.

My point is, investigate the schools first. Make sure you are maximizing your effectiveness with your applications. But also understand that some schools will change policy or enforce it inconsistently. Non-trads are more susceptible to this because we are, by definition, outliers in the applicant pool. It is easier to reject a non-trad on more arbitrary grounds because any precident set will only affect a small portion of the overall applicant pool. You have to have good essays, good LORs, and look like the average applicant.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Non-trads are more susceptible to this because we are, by definition, outliers in the applicant pool. It is easier to reject a non-trad on more arbitrary grounds because any precident set will only affect a small portion of the overall applicant pool. You have to have good essays, good LORs, and look like the average applicant.

I'm hijacking Barts' thread a little, but your comments really strike a chord with me. I think Barts is in pretty good shape in applying to osteopathic schools - I disagree with some of the generalizations on SDN, but I do think it's fair to say that osteopathic schools often are more welcoming to the non-traditional.

For a number of personal reasons, I wanted to go allopathic. I knew that applying at age 43 was an issue - but, I figured that - in the end, a good application could overcome age. I worked like a dog to get a 32 MCAT, had over sixty hours of straight 4.0 in the sciences - and I had a cumulative UG of 3.97 plus a Masters degree - I didn't have any bad grades from undergrad years to overcome. I really thought I was good to go and applied to a number of upper-tier schools. Results: zip. A few secondaries, no interviews.

I honestly don't know what was wrong with my app - 20 years working in hospitals as a CPA, good community volunteering going back years, great letters from several physicians and my hospital's adminsitration. I always have to stay open to the idea that my app had some problem (maybe it was taking most of my pre-reqs in community college which was my only night option - but my baccalaureate and masters were from a major public university that is highly-ranked in accounting) - but, I have reluctantly concluded that some age discrimination - at least for older non-trads - does exist in the allopathic world. One rejection letter I got from a public med school just infuriated me - "as an out-of-state candidate, you must have at least a 28 MCAT and a 3.7 GPA if you choose to reapply next year" - I thought, "did you even read my AMCAS beyond page 1??"

I've vented on SDN before about this so I aplogize - it may sound sappy, but the experience kinda broke my heart (and made me feel very, very old). It all worked out, though - I felt drawn to my state allopathic school anyway - it's a really good school and they accepted me early and provided me with a very generous scholarship. I'm honored to be going there and they've earned my undying loyalty because they have interviewed and accepted applicants older than me on a regular basis.

 

[chrisjohn]

Ahh yes, the pre-screen blues. You need to make a connection at the school if possible. Explain your situation why an ultra qualified applicant can't even get looked at by the ADCOM. Do this and you might be surprised how many doors open to you.

Med schools look at numbers not people.

 

[RxnMan]

I honestly don't know what was wrong with my app...It all worked out, though - I felt drawn to my state allopathic school anyway...I'm honored to be going there and they've earned my undying loyalty because they have interviewed and accepted applicants older than me on a regular basis.

I wish this was my case.

I'm not much older than the average applicant, (26 when I matriculate,) but my application is non-traditional (and very competitive) in other ways. I had worked at my state's SOM for 5 years, knew everyone (inc. the dean of admissions), had LOR from faculty, all that stuff. I really liked it there, and I felt that if anyone anywhere knew me and that different = good, it would be my state school. I was handed their rejection for the 3rd time this year. But the thing is, I don't have to figure out what was 'wrong' with my app or what it was that they were looking for - a different institution gave me an acceptance, so I'll be attending there in the fall, and they will reap the benefits.

To everyone, keep working hard, research the entire process, and don't limit yourself. This process is hard, and it is full of (painful) challenges, but in the end, the only person who can decide when to quit is you.

 

[Barts]

Well I decided to apply to most of the DO schools since my GPA is going to take a hit from the old grades. I do have another question though (touchy subject)--

My grandmother was from Mexico-I never even met the woman so wasn't planning on listing any ethnicity on my app. However, *ducks flames* I am pretty certain that if I do list my ethnicity as Hispanic it will probably increase my chances of getting accepted first cycle. I'm just not sure if it is the "right" thing to do. Any thoughts would be appreciated--please keep flames to a minimum.

 

[RxnMan]

Well I decided to apply to most of the DO schools since my GPA is going to take a hit from the old grades. I do have another question though (touchy subject)--

My grandmother was from Mexico-I never even met the woman so wasn't planning on listing any ethnicity on my app. However, *ducks flames* I am pretty certain that if I do list my ethnicity as Hispanic it will probably increase my chances of getting accepted first cycle. I'm just not sure if it is the "right" thing to do. Any thoughts would be appreciated--please keep flames to a minimum.

I say this process is competitive enough. Try for every possible advantage you can, and let the ADCOMs make their decision.