"Well rounded applicants"

[Californiaswim]

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Doctors have to do a lot of different things and good doctors have to be good at a lot of different things. If you're good at a lot of different things you'll make a better doctor.

 

[Anotherface]

There are stories of being rejected from programs for having too much of a social life.

edfig99: maybe you can clear this up for me. Why is a leadership position in a science related extracurricular activity less desirable than one in a sport or a nonscience club?

The key word here is too much. If you do too much, then they do not consider you to be balance and they feel you do not know what you like and need. Since your free time is limited during med school and residency, you have to narrow down your list of pastimes to the things which you care about the most.

But how? I don't understand how majoring in History and joining the poetry slam club is going to make you a good doctor. I know that it sounds nice to say that having a broad worldview makes you a better doctor, but I just don't see how it's true. And I don't think that you need to be well rounded to be able to communicate with people effectively.

First off, having interests outside of science/medicine means that you have more things in common with your average patient. IMO people that do not have interests outside of their own field find it difficult to relate (empathize) with others.

Furthermore, adcoms really want their students to have interests outside of class because those students tend to do a better job at adjusting to medical school and dealing with stress. According to acquaintances whom are on adcoms, that is what its really about: they want to know that you're not a grind; they want to know that at the end of the day you can vent and socialize by singing, dancing, throwing a frisbee, or talking with people in a club about something other than your coursework. Even if you do not think its necessary for physicians to empathize, you must realize how important it is for docs to deal with their stress and lead a healthy/balance life.

PS most of my friends who were considered to be grinds 1st year (and coincidentally 🙄 socially awkward), did not make the cut. That is, they are not applying to med school this year because they burnt out.

 

[deleted239798]

The key word here is too much. If you do too much, then they do not consider you to be balance and they feel you do not know what you like and need. Since your free time is limited during med school and residency, you have to narrow down your list of pastimes to the things which you care about the most.


First off, having interests outside of science/medicine means that you have more things in common with your average patient. IMO people that do not have interests outside of their own field find it difficult to relate (empathize) with others.

Furthermore, adcoms really want their students to have interests outside of class because those students tend to do a better job at adjusting to medical school and dealing with stress. According to acquaintances whom are on adcoms, that is what its really about: they want to know that you're not a grind; they want to know that at the end of the day you can vent and socialize by singing, dancing, throwing a frisbee, or talking with people in a club about something other than your coursework. Even if you do not think its necessary for physicians to empathize, you must realize how important it is for docs to deal with their stress and lead a healthy/balance life.

PS most of my friends who were considered to be grinds 1st year (and coincidentally 🙄 socially awkward), did not make the cut. That is, they are not applying to med school this year because they burnt out.

According to some applicants, being married is too much of a social life according to some specialties. I don't know if this is true, but it's what some people have said. Empathy is important, but I still haven't heard why a biology major who has ECs that are all related to science is unable to empathize.

It's important to understand that this was just an academic exercise. I am actually a well rounded applicant. I was just curious as to what other pre meds thought of this.

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, residency is grueling and there is little time for anything outside of work.

However there is life on the other side and I've known physicians who have enjoyed: following sports teams, participating in marathons or improving their tennis game, attending art exhibitions and concerts (everything from the symphony to the Rolling Stones), singing in a choir, restoring classic cars, collecting rare books, raising chickens, doing home improvement projects, writing a novel, knitting sweaters. Residency is as little as 3 years and as many as 7. After that, most people have 30 years or more of working hard but with enough free time in the week to enjoy activities that help them refresh themselves.

Being able to make small talk with patients is less about being "up" on the latest sports teams and so forth but being interested in what interests your patients and being willing to ask a few open ended questions and listen to the responses. With long term patients, knowing what is important to them can help you gauge how they are doing and what might improve their quality of life.

 

[chad5871]

There are a number of schools who are actively working to make your lives more well-rounded. Vanderbilt is one school that comes to mind. They give you the option of taking a "wellness class" (read: You can do anything you want, inside or outside of school) for credit. My interviewer suggested that I could take brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for that block. I kind of just stared at her blankly and fell in love.

Another great example is Columbia University. The P&S Club has so many different extracurriculars that are actually substantial (for example the Bard Hall Players, made up entirely of students at P&S, puts on two plays a musical EVERY YEAR).

 

[MadEvans]

If you are interested solely in the sciences and science-related ECs, then why not go into research...?

The biggest reason I want to become a doctor is not out of interest in biology but for the patient relationships I hope to form and for the ability and position I will be in to help people on a really personal level.

ETA: Basically, science classes are very interesting and I enjoy them, but they are more of a means to the end rather than the end itself.

👍

However, don't divorce research from patient care. It's not impossible to both care about patients and go into research. Something more than money has to be motivating those researchers who have to analyze stool samples for particular experiements. I'd guess it's care for patients.

 

[What up doc]

let be real, underneath it all, the reason is that ECs provide adcomms with a way of filtering candidates. i almost agree with the OP in that i am not quite sure how you can logically conclude that being an olympic diver will make you a better doctor than being president of the chem club or publishing a paper. but i think its pretty clear that the admissions process isnt solely about churning out the "best" doctors. i mean cmon, how the hell can you really tell how good of a doctor someone is gonna be from a 45 min interview and carefull crafted and scrupulously edited paper application?

so then you may say that a stronger nose in the books type kid will be able to provide bette care? ummm not so sure mayne, i really dont think that just bcuz sum1 busted a 40 on the mcat and has a 4.0 means that they will make a great surgeon, or any kind of doctor for that matter. if youve ever held a job, you should know that there are so many things that go into performing your craft well. things that are not distinguishable by a rediculous 6 hr test and imcomprable academic experiences. again, grades/mcat area filter and can MAYBE tell you something about cognitive ability. HUGE maybe. there is so much more behind a person's score on a standardized test that cannot be determined simply by knowing the score alone. the same could be said about somones invidual academic record.

the chic thing to do in the admissions business is to tote diversity. so, thats what they are looking for and thats what they get with ppl with quirky ECs. i still think that schools admit quite a few 40/4.0 but had 2 study their fricken arse off and did nothing but science related ECs ppl...u can kinda tell...but then again there are just so many ppl that can manage 2 get 35+ scores, 3.8 gpa, publish papers, play sports, hold leadership positions, have a couple hobbies AND have a social life at the same time...its not like these ppl will certainly make better doctors...but they contribute to the class make up in a unique way and can improve the educational experience for all students in the class and this can in effect lead to better educated doctors...i think

 

[Gut Shot]

Empathy is important, but I still haven't heard why a biology major who has ECs that are all related to science is unable to empathize.

I don't think anyone would label such a person "unable" to empathize, but adcoms can only evaluate what the applicant shows of him/herself. You could be the most empathetic guy around, but how have you shown this if your ECs are 100% science?

My father spent 33 years teaching engineering at the university level. On the sheer nerd scale, by and large engineering majors make premeds look like the football team. He came home one day and said "We gave all the engineering students the Meyers-Briggs Personality Test... the results came back negative."

 

[thoffen]

Here's the basic problem:
Success in the basic science curriculum component of medical school is not well correlated to success as a physician.

Medical schools are aware of that now, and they are actively seeking students with skills beyond that of a scientist. There is, as yet, little data to demonstrate whether or not this will turn out.

 

[cyclin M]

Does anyone else find it bizarre that medical schools supposedly want well rounded applicants (ie. not people who are only interested in sciences), yet the med school curriculum supposedly drains you and leaves you no time to do anything? Why do they want people who also play ultimate frisbee and sing in a choir, when such hobbies aren't going to be possible to pursue?

On a related note: has anyone looked at the residency forums? Supposedly, some programs don't want people with any social life. Why the dichotomy? Personally, I think it would be great if all doctors were nerds with an immense amount of dedication who excelled in the sciences.

I don't mean to communicate that I think doctors shouldn't have people skills. But I do think it's possible to be someone who has a narrow set of academic interests and has communicative skills.

Note: I didn't apply this cycle.

Yeah I bought into this whole "well rounded" thing when I applied to college, but despite being very well-rounded I wound up at a 3rd tier college (rank around 50 ish), while some of my friends who excelled at one thing like dance, music, sports, etc. got into top colleges.

I did not make the same mistake during my college career and chose to excel in one thing beyond what anyone else can accomplish. When you are hired for a job, you are not hired because you do several things "kinda well." You are hired because you are able to do that job really well. That's just my take on all this.

By the way, being good at one thing doesn't mean you are a rock and don't have hobbies or don't have a personality. Why some people on here still think being great at something and being a loser are synonymous are beyond me.

 

[flip26]

Yeah I bought into this whole "well rounded" thing when I applied to college, but despite being very well-rounded I wound up at a 3rd tier college (rank around 50 ish), while some of my friends who excelled at one thing like dance, music, sports, etc. got into top colleges.

I did not make the same mistake during my college career and chose to excel in one thing beyond what anyone else can accomplish. When you are hired for a job, you are not hired because you do several things "kinda well." You are hired because you are able to do that job really well. That's just my take on all this.

By the way, being good at one thing doesn't mean you are a rock and don't have hobbies or don't have a personality. Why some people on here still think being great at something and being a loser are synonymous are beyond me.

Then you completely misunderstood what colleges were looking for. Elite colleges are not looking for "well rounded" applicants as you found out - they are looking for "well rounded" classes that includes "unique" applicants with outstanding academics coupled with unique ECs that show passion and high achievement that take place outside of the 4 walls of the high school...

What exactly did you do in college to excel in one thing "beyond what anyone else can accomplish?" This I have to hear...

 

[Handy388]

Yeah I bought into this whole "well rounded" thing when I applied to college, but despite being very well-rounded I wound up at a 3rd tier college (rank around 50 ish), while some of my friends who excelled at one thing like dance, music, sports, etc. got into top colleges.

I did not make the same mistake during my college career and chose to excel in one thing beyond what anyone else can accomplish. When you are hired for a job, you are not hired because you do several things "kinda well." You are hired because you are able to do that job really well. That's just my take on all this.

By the way, being good at one thing doesn't mean you are a rock and don't have hobbies or don't have a personality. Why some people on here still think being great at something and being a loser are synonymous are beyond me.

just wonder if you were that highschool kid who joined every club and did everything, but just a lil bit, which made it seem like you were trying to do things just to impress rather than having a real passion.

 

[cyclin M]

Then you completely misunderstood what colleges were looking for. Elite colleges are not looking for "well rounded" applicants as you found out - they are looking for "well rounded" classes that includes "unique" applicants with outstanding academics coupled with unique ECs that show passion and high achievement that take place outside of the 4 walls of the high school...

I don't know what high school you went to, but I did not have a major in mine and everyone who graduated from my high school had well balanced classes. Second, again passion and high achievement does not have to be something non-science.

What exactly did you do in college to excel in one thing "beyond what anyone else can accomplish?" This I have to hear...

I basically invented something very cool. I cannot tell you exactly what it is because it is patent pending, but it will revolutionize the food packaging industry forever. 👍

 

[flip26]

I don't know what high school you went to, but I did not have a major in mine and everyone who graduated from my high school had well balanced classes. Second, again passion and high achievement does not have to be something non-science...I basically invented something very cool. I cannot tell you exactly what it is because it is patent pending, but it will revolutionize the food packaging industry forever. 👍

You really did not understand what I wrote or what elite colleges wanted - I never said anything about passion and excellence needing to be "non-science"...

Elite colleges want the kids with the nose bleed high SATs and the butt load of AP classes, but that is not enough. They don't give a crap about a laundry list of ECs done "inside" your high school, the kinds of things that most kids believe make them "well rounded." They want the kids who demonstrated a passion and excelled "outside" the high school. Examples: all state band, national science competitions, community leadership activities, etc. Elite colleges need all kinds of people to make the campus "click" - they need superstar athletes, musicians, leaders, etc...

As for your "unique" EC for med schools, I hate to tell ya, but I think you may have missed the boat again. This would have been exactly the kind of EC elite colleges would have wanted to see, not so sure about med schools...perhaps an MBA program would love it, though...med schools may wonder why you are interested in becoming a physician instead of a food packaging entrepreneur...

 

[cyclin M]

just wonder if you were that highschool kid who joined every club and did everything, but just a lil bit, which made it seem like you were trying to do things just to impress rather than having a real passion.

No, I was not that kid. I joined clubs to improve in spots where I was weak. For example I was shy so I joined the choir and some religious/cultural clubs. I also joined service clubs and science clubs because those are things I like to do. I like to think these make me well rounded on top of good grades and test scores.

But I realize that this process like the college process is not black and white and there is no formula for getting accepted. It is best just to do what interests me, and that is what I'm doing this time around. I just happen to be doing well in what interests me, which is food packaging and other quirky inventions.

 

[cyclin M]

As for your "unique" EC for med schools, I hate to tell ya, but I think you may have missed the boat again. This would have been exactly the kind of EC elite colleges would have wanted to see, not so sure about med schools...perhaps an MBA program would love it, though...med schools may wonder why you are interested in becoming a physician instead of a food packaging entrepreneur...

Well does it not show my interests outside my school and academic life? Does dancing well or singing well somehow relate to a future as a physician more than this? I think not. Regardless, I don't think it will hurt me and they will appreciate this invention when they hear about it.

 

[flip26]

Well does it not show my interests outside my school and academic life? Does dancing well or singing well somehow relate to a future as a physician more than this? I think not. Regardless, I don't think it will hurt me and they will appreciate this invention when they hear about it.

Where are you getting the idea that this is what med schools are looking for? Recreational ECs and hobbies are not going to make or break a med school application.

I don't think your EC will hurt, but it may not help much, either, unless in addition to it you have a demonstrated understanding of a career in medicine (clinical experiences and shadowing) backed up by a demonstration of service to others (volunteering), AND you can reflect all of this and discuss your passion for medicine and serving others intelligently and persuasively in the PS, essays, and interviews...additional worthwhile ECs include academic research (not necessarily in science) and leadership roles in the community...if you are deficient in any of these areas, your invention EC could become more of a red flag, and an adcom may question why you are applying to med school and not MBA school...

 

[chad5871]

Where are you getting the idea that this is what med schools are looking for? Recreational ECs and hobbies are not going to make or break a med school application.

I beg to differ. Med school admissions can often be a crap shoot, and you never know what an admissions committee member might like in your file. There are more than enough applicants with the requisite volunteering, good stats, and good LORs. Anything that can make you stand out to the adcom is a good thing.

I have a good GPA, a decent MCAT score, a normal amount of clinical exposure and some research experience... really nothing that spectacular. I wrote my entire personal statement about my experiences performing (since I've been doing that my entire life and have only wanted to pursue medicine for the past ~3 years), how I "found" medicine, and how these things will serve me in my future career as a physician. Sure it was a bit of a calculated risk, but I've ended up with awesome interviews and some great acceptances, and I attribute this solely to my PS. One of my interviewers told me that he was "dazzled by my essay" and he had "never read a PS like mine." I'm not trying to gloat, but I'm just trying to show that if you present yourself and your unique experiences in a positive and different way, you'll stand out from the masses and the admissions committee will see the interesting and multi-talented individual that you are.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that it's imperative to tie these unique ECs into your education and career as a future physician. Without tying your experiences into your passion for medicine, it will appear as if you're not serious about medicine or aren't sure what you want to do with your life.

 

[flip26]

I beg to differ. Med school admissions can often be a crap shoot, and you never know what an admissions committee member might like in your file. There are more than enough applicants with the requisite volunteering, good stats, and good LORs. Anything that can make you stand out to the adcom is a good thing.

I have a good GPA, a decent MCAT score, a normal amount of clinical exposure and some research experience... really nothing that spectacular. I wrote my entire personal statement about my experiences performing (since I've been doing that my entire life and have only wanted to pursue medicine for the past ~3 years), how I "found" medicine, and how these things will serve me in my future career as a physician. Sure it was a bit of a calculated risk, but I've ended up with awesome interviews and some great acceptances, and I attribute this solely to my PS. One of my interviewers told me that he was "dazzled by my essay" and he had "never read a PS like mine." I'm not trying to gloat, but I'm just trying to show that if you present yourself and your unique experiences in a positive and different way, you'll stand out from the masses and the admissions committee will see the interesting and multi-talented individual that you are.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that it's imperative to tie these unique ECs into your education and career as a future physician. Without tying your experiences into your passion for medicine, it will appear as if you're not serious about medicine or aren't sure what you want to do with your life.

Your case makes my point. You have above average grades, an average matriculant MCAT, plus all the requisite ECs...without those, a hobby of dancing or singing is pretty meaningless to an adcom...with them, you can demonstrate that you have a life outside of college and prepping for med school, and that this the take home message here...

Interesting hobbies cannot make a sub par applicant appealing to an adcom, but it could reflect favorably on one IF everything else is in place.

 

[pianola]

flip26, when will you be applying to medical school?

 

[chad5871]

Your case makes my point. You have above average grades, an average matriculant MCAT, plus all the requisite ECs...without those, a hobby of dancing or singing is pretty meaningless to an adcom...with them, you can demonstrate that you have a life outside of college and prepping for med school, and that this the take home message here...

Interesting hobbies cannot make a sub par applicant appealing to an adcom, but it could reflect favorably on one IF everything else is in place.

I agree with you... I guess I just wanted to demonstrate that if everything else is "acceptable," having a unique background can push you over the top, which could in effect "make or break your application."

 

[cyclin M]

...a demonstrated understanding of a career in medicine (clinical experiences and shadowing) backed up by a demonstration of service to others (volunteering), AND you can reflect all of this and discuss your passion for medicine and serving others intelligently and persuasively in the PS, essays, and interviews...additional worthwhile ECs include academic research (not necessarily in science) and leadership roles in the community...if you are deficient in any of these areas, your invention EC could become more of a red flag, and an adcom may question why you are applying to med school and not MBA school...

flip26 thanks for the post, but all those things you listed are very mundane things nearly everyone who is applying and serious about getting accepted will have. That is a given. It is like saying "oh and wear a shirt to your interview too." Everyone KNOWS to do those things.

However, my point is that IN ADDITION to all that, excelling in ONE of those things super well will be more attractive than someone who has done above average in all of them.

For example:

Above average volunteer, research, shadowing/clinical experience

vs.

Average volunteer, research, but AMAZING shadowing/clinical experience.

Basically I am saying so many people will have these unspoken "pre-reqs" such as a solid essay, volunteering, great grades, etc. you MUST have something that you EXCELLED AT beyond what other people have done to make them notice you and push you over into the accept pile.

Now you may be thinking, why not excel at everything? Simply put there are time constraints in where you can invest your time.

 

[Pewl]

Wow, this thread jogs my memories of what the application trail was like for med school. There was always so much pointless debate and speculation about what schools were/weren't looking for.

The reality is that schools do not seek "balanced people." They seek people who are outstanding academically. This is particularly true for residency applications into competitive specialties and elite programs (e.g. plastics, ENT, rad onc, derm). They don't give a rat's @ss what hobbies or other interests you have. They look at your board score, your overall academic record, advanced degrees you hold in certain fields, and the number of abstracts, published manuscripts, and poster presentations you have at conferences.
Period.

It's fun to speculate what schools may be looking for, but in the end it's all a numbers game. There are simply too many applicants for med school, and it takes a mixture of good numbers and some blind dumb luck (for those who didn't have good numbers) to get in.

 

[What up doc]

Wow, this thread jogs my memories of what the application trail was like for med school. There was always so much pointless debate and speculation about what schools were/weren't looking for.

The reality is that schools do not seek "balanced people." They seek people who are outstanding academically. This is particularly true for residency applications into competitive specialties and elite programs (e.g. plastics, ENT, rad onc, derm). They don't give a rat's @ss what hobbies or other interests you have. They look at your board score, your overall academic record, advanced degrees you hold in certain fields, and the number of abstracts, published manuscripts, and poster presentations you have at conferences.
Period.

It's fun to speculate what schools may be looking for, but in the end it's all a numbers game. There are simply too many applicants for med school, and it takes a mixture of good numbers and some blind dumb luck (for those who didn't have good numbers) to get in.

nah man. youre wrong dude. the residency game is not at all like the med skool game. for instance, there is no racial preference at all in residency apps, whereas ones ethnicity can play a role, albeit small or significant, in her admission decision.

your take is based on how the residency game is played. and you forgot a very important factor and that is who you know. a 4th year at washU told me a story about how the chair of his dept. called the an adcomm director at a mid tier hosptial and gave his recommendation. the 4th was admitted before the dean had seen his boards or rank. im sure the same thing also happens in med skool admissions.

and no, its not just dumb blind luck. there are WAY more qualfie applicants for med skool than there are available spots. med skools know that at the higher ranges of MCAT scores (33+) that differences in scores are mroe due to luck than to pure intelligence or ability. with that said, med skools gotta use whatever other criteria they can to select applicants. how favorably they view certain ECs is where the luck factor comes in.

but in residency you are right. AOA and 260+ boards with a couple pubs and you will be laughing your way into derm. 👍

 

[bozz]

Does anyone else find it bizarre that medical schools supposedly want well rounded applicants (ie. not people who are only interested in sciences), yet the med school curriculum supposedly drains you and leaves you no time to do anything? Why do they want people who also play ultimate frisbee and sing in a choir, when such hobbies aren't going to be possible to pursue?

On a related note: has anyone looked at the residency forums? Supposedly, some programs don't want people with any social life. Why the dichotomy? Personally, I think it would be great if all doctors were nerds with an immense amount of dedication who excelled in the sciences.

I don't mean to communicate that I think doctors shouldn't have people skills. But I do think it's possible to be someone who has a narrow set of academic interests and has communicative skills.

Note: I didn't apply this cycle.

I thought you had to set yourselves apart non-academically as well but tons of people with good scores who stick to academic stuff (doing a ton of research) get into top schools.

 

[flip26]

flip26, when will you be applying to medical school?

this year...I am presently accepting recipes for all the humble pie I will have to ingest...

 

[Handy388]

nah man. youre wrong dude. the residency game is not at all like the med skool game. for instance, there is no racial preference at all in residency apps, whereas ones ethnicity can play a role, albeit small or significant, in her admission decision.

your take is based on how the residency game is played. and you forgot a very important factor and that is who you know. a 4th year at washU told me a story about how the chair of his dept. called the an adcomm director at a mid tier hosptial and gave his recommendation. the 4th was admitted before the dean had seen his boards or rank. im sure the same thing also happens in med skool admissions.

and no, its not just dumb blind luck. there are WAY more qualfie applicants for med skool than there are available spots. med skools know that at the higher ranges of MCAT scores (33+) that differences in scores are mroe due to luck than to pure intelligence or ability. with that said, med skools gotta use whatever other criteria they can to select applicants. how favorably they view certain ECs is where the luck factor comes in.

but in residency you are right. AOA and 260+ boards with a couple pubs and you will be laughing your way into derm. 👍

I think the med student is right. On your friend's example, remember you don't get ADMITTED into residency. You get ranked. Unless it's a prematch?

 

[Jolie South]

I think the med student is right. On your friend's example, remember you don't get ADMITTED into residency. You get ranked. Unless it's a prematch?

I don't believe that American MD grads can pre-match.

 

[Myuu]

this year...I am presently accepting recipes for all the humble pie I will have to ingest...

One part salt, ten parts vinegar. Don't bother with the crust, as it won't make you any more well-rounded. Can't get more rounded than a solution that adheres to its mostly circular container! Enjoy!👍

But in all seriousness, good luck!👍😀

 

[deleted239798]

Wow, this thread jogs my memories of what the application trail was like for med school. There was always so much pointless debate and speculation about what schools were/weren't looking for.

The reality is that schools do not seek "balanced people." They seek people who are outstanding academically. This is particularly true for residency applications into competitive specialties and elite programs (e.g. plastics, ENT, rad onc, derm). They don't give a rat's @ss what hobbies or other interests you have. They look at your board score, your overall academic record, advanced degrees you hold in certain fields, and the number of abstracts, published manuscripts, and poster presentations you have at conferences.
Period.

It's fun to speculate what schools may be looking for, but in the end it's all a numbers game. There are simply too many applicants for med school, and it takes a mixture of good numbers and some blind dumb luck (for those who didn't have good numbers) to get in.

This proves my point. You have to jump through hoops and stand out by being special and doing unique things in order to get into medical school, and then four years later, nobody cares that you were captain of the dance team.

 

[Handy388]

This proves my point. You have to jump through hoops and stand out by being special and doing unique things in order to get into medical school, and then four years later, nobody cares that you were captain of the dance team.

the school you come from may matter in residency selection.

 

[Pewl]

I think the med student is right. On your friend's example, remember you don't get ADMITTED into residency. You get ranked. Unless it's a prematch?

What 'What up Doc' is talking about does happen. School reputation and who you know does matter. However, it isn't the norm. The competitive specialty programs at higher tier places do pay attention to what school you go to. However, in many cases you can overcome this by simply being as outstanding as you can. The "magic phonecall" from the world renown program chair that gets you one-way ticket into another residency program is also certainly not the norm. Yes, it does happen. It also depends on the field and program. Handy388 is correct that you match in residencies. Most likely, the program will simply rank that applicant at the top of their list. If the applicant ranks them #1 as well then yes, he's in.
Lastly, yes, I did forget about the ethnicity issue. It absolutely sucks, since I'm more of an 'overrepresented minority.' I also forget that not everyone is quite as academically driven as I am, especially since i'm interested in rad onc. (I did an M.S. in nuclear and radiation physics prior to med school)

good luck all of you. It's a crappy and flawed process. All you can do is try your best.

 

[Handy388]

What 'What up Doc' is talking about does happen. School reputation and who you know does matter. However, it isn't the norm. The competitive specialty programs at higher tier places do pay attention to what school you go to. However, in many cases you can overcome this by simply being as outstanding as you can. The "magic phonecall" from the world renown program chair that gets you one-way ticket into another residency program is also certainly not the norm. Yes, it does happen. It also depends on the field and program. Handy388 is correct that you match in residencies. Most likely, the program will simply rank that applicant at the top of their list. If the applicant ranks them #1 as well then yes, he's in.
Lastly, yes, I did forget about the ethnicity issue. It absolutely sucks, since I'm more of an 'overrepresented minority.' I also forget that not everyone is quite as academically driven as I am, especially since i'm interested in rad onc. (I did an M.S. in nuclear and radiation physics prior to med school)

good luck all of you. It's a crappy and flawed process. All you can do is try your best.

UCSF's rad onc was filled with ALL MD-PHD from top 10 last year, so it does matter. But for the peon like me, it doesn't really matter.