Went on Interview, LOR Conflict?

[russellang]

I went on an interview earlier in the week and it went well. However, the interviewer said she was confused by two of my letters from DVM's. She said one said I was extremely outgoing and aggressive and the other said I was shy and did not communicate well with others. The interviewers said that I am obviously not shy and that they will disregard that letter but I am concerned how other schools will look at two letters from DVM's who say opposite characterisitics of my personality.

I am just concerned that having such a contradiction will be an immediate grounds for rejection. I did have this interview and I do have another next month so Im assuming that the one letter could not have been all negative (?) but I have no idea. Anyone in a similar situation or anyone have advice for me? Obviously I cannot do anything about it now but it is frustrating.

Thank you!

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[nordicat]

Ew! I hope you know who wrote that LOR so you can avoid them if you ever need another one. Last time I applied (like 5 years ago...), one of the doctors literally wrote "I do not know her very well, and she mostly works up front with the people and not in back with the animals." I about strangled her. Needless to say, I didn't ask this doctor to write me a LOR this time around. I think if you're clearly able to prove them wrong in your interviews, they'll disregard it.

 

[Maddiegirl]

Man, that really stinks! Hopefully they will disregard if you're clearly not the personality type described in the letter.

Like you said, there is no need worrying about it now because you can't change it, but I would try to pin point which DVM wrote which letter to avoid this situation in the future, should the need arise.

 

[bbeventer]

Yikes! At least you have some interviews lined up though, so the schools must not look at it too harshly.

That, or they are really curious about your alter ego personality

 

[jemappellejane]

WTH- i don't understand people that agree to write recommendation letters, only to say crap like that. Seriously, it is a RECOMMENDATION letter. If you've got nothing good to say, then don't agree to write. I mean, do these people LIKE to see people fail???

 

[Fireflysushi]

Just tell them that you try to observe the clinic when you are first starting and them once you are familiar with the clinic's practices you become more comfotable and outgoing. I did not decline my right to view my LORS this year because I was worried about something like this. I had a friend that applied to med school, their LOR writer agreed to write them a letter and then told the schools not to admit him!! If they don't have anything nice to say them they shouldn't write a letter.

 

[bbeventer]

WTH- i don't understand people that agree to write recommendation letters, only to say crap like that. Seriously, it is a RECOMMENDATION letter. If you've got nothing good to say, then don't agree to write. I mean, do these people LIKE to see people fail???

Sometimes, I think some people do like to see others fail. Regardless, things like this should not occur.

 

[sooprnova]

If they don't have anything nice to say them they shouldn't write a letter.

I agree with this to a certain point. The onus is also on the applicant to make sure the person is going to write them a positive letter. Instead of asking my recommenders if they'd write a letter, I asked if they felt comfortable writing a strong, very positive letter.

But still, that's super weird. If you look at it objectively, is there any truth to it? The first clinic at which I shadowed would probably say I was timid, quiet, and never asked questions. It would be true, because I was terrified! If there's no merit to it, though, I would just rely on your personality shining through in your interviews to prove that you can, in fact, communicate well with others!

 

[squirrelsrule]

That stinks! How well did you know the vets and how well did they know you.

I understand vets writing bad letters if people come in for like 2 hours and ask for a letter or show no real interest in vet med, but if these are vets you've worked with for any length of time, they should know you and be able to write a good letter.

I could see something like what Soopernova said. For me personally, I'm pretty quiet till I get to know people and my first time shadowing I was pretty quiet, but I knew the vet and eventually opened up a little more and asked questions and stuff. I didn't end up asking that vet for a letter, though, I went with vets that I had worked with longer and had seen how I interact with other techs. and clients as well as how I actually was with handling and asking questions and stuff. If you were the same around both vets or both were vets at the same clinic, though....

I would be super freaked out, but hopefully in the end it won't make much difference. Good luck. How did you address the issue when they asked you?

 

[StartingoverVet]

Shy is perfectly fine.
Unable to communicate with others is definitely an issue. I would think about having a plan to allay that concern in any future interviews (anecdotes, explanation, whatever).

You might also consider talking to the person who made that comment to see why they wrote that. I mean, LOR writers usually have something in mind when they are writing. Might as well use it as a learning experience. Maybe you have an issue you were unaware of, or an incident occurred that you can explain away.

 

[jemappellejane]

You might also consider talking to the person who made that comment to see why they wrote that.

agreed.

 

[Trematode]

What was the time line of the letter? If the LOR is from an earlier experience, perhaps the OP was shy in the situation because it is new and somewhat frightening to them. Also, another thing to think about is how the staff may have acted towards the OP. I volunteered at a clinic where majority of the staff did not call on me for help and did not associate with me as much because I was new. At that clinic, I was always paired up with kennel attendant who was always called out to assist and to watch procedures. If I needed an LOR from that clinic, I think I would be labeled as "shy" too to a degree.

 

[StormWater]

I am concerned how other schools will look at two letters from DVM's who say opposite characterisitics of my personality.

The good thing is that you've got another letter contradicting the 'doesn't interact with others' letter. As an interviewer, if I saw 2-3 letters saying that you were shy, I'd have my concerns. Contradicting letters would indicate to me that they had observed you under different conditions. The fact that one DVM said you were outgoing would determine whether I interviewed you or not.

 

[russellang]

I do know the person who wrote the letter, I work with her each week. I really cannot find anything that would warrant her saying I am shy and unable to communicate with others. The irony is this vet is known for her shyness and unwillingness to talk about certain things with people. I really am lost at this point as what to say about everything. I have been working with her for over a year now and I thought I knew her well. I work with her later in the week and I'm not sure if I should say anything about it to her, it could make things awkward. I really feel disrespected because I dont feel her statement is true and i have also done alot of favors for her that none of the other techs would do.

I was thinking maybe the adcom might have paraphrased her statement? Maybe she said shy but the adcom then implied that meant unable to communicate? The only thing I can say is that the other vet wrote the opposite of me. However, both of the vets I got letters from work at the same practice so it makes it more stressful. The vet that wrote the good letter is the owner and has been a vet for 25 years whereas the other is a new grad.

I will answer the other questions you have tonight.

Anyone else?

 

[HelloNello]

The one who wrote you the "bad" letter is a new grad. I think that about sums it up. I think vets who have been in the field have a lot more perspective than ones who just graduated and I think newer vets have a certain naiveté and idealism about them. I've noticed they are very black and white about stuff. I'd chalk it up to her being weird and move on. Just be confident that you are not antisocial and don't ask her for a letter in the future.

 

[Armymutt25A]

This is precisely why YOU should write your LORs. When I applied and asked for LORs, I sent a draft copy with suggestions. The people you have writing LORs are generally busy with their work and don't have time to spend a lot of time making sure the LOR is well written. Right now, I'm soliciting LORs for a scholarship. I've written the drafts, including the letterhead, special codes, and signature blocks. This way, the recommender only has to change a few things to suit them and your letter says what you want it to.

 

[sunshinevet]

She said one said I was extremely outgoing and aggressive and the other said I was shy and did not communicate well with others.

Just wanted to ask, it might be out of context and actually fine, but I would be wary of anyone who someone described as "aggressive" in any form. I agree that the latter one pretty much threw you under the bus by saying you can't communicate well, if that is what they actually said, but I would have been equally concerned, personally, that the other one described you as aggressive?

Just another thought.

 

[LetItSnow]

This is precisely why YOU should write your LORs.

I can absolutely see why you'd want to do that, but I prefer to let people actually write the recommendation.

I've done a fair bit of interviewing in my background in the business world, and it was always *very* easy to see when someone had spoon-fed people with a recommendation as opposed to when it was written entirely by the person whose name was on it.

Anyway, whenever it was obvious that it was spoon-fed, my tendency was to give it a bit less credibility. Right or wrong, my perception was always that it wasn't as good a reflection of how OTHER people perceive the candidate as I would have liked.

So. Not saying it's a bad idea (and I'm not suggesting there's anything unethical about it), because it has obvious pros ... but I am saying that it's worth thinking twice about, because it may mean reducing the overall impact, as well.

I think the best approach is middle-of-the-road. Meet with your evaluator a few times to talk over your background, goals, and personal characteristics. Make sure they are going to highlight what you want. Then let them do the writing.

 

[Minnerbelle]

it was always *very* easy to see when someone had spoon-fed people with a recommendation as opposed to when it was written entirely by the person whose name was on it.

That, and how awkward would it be if you wrote in your own recommendation "so and so is a team player who rises to the occasion and leads through great communication skills" or something like that... and the evaluator thinks you're shy and uncommunicative?

And as for waiving the right to see the eLORs, I definitely think you should waive it (this has been talked ad nauseum before so search if you're interested). If you get rejected and you want to know if you want to reuse that LOR, I think it's in your best interest to just go talk to each of your past evaluators and say something along the lines of "As you know, I got rejected last cycle and I really want to work on anything I can to better myself for next cycle. Could you give me an honest evaluations on where I stand, and give me feedback on what I can do to do better? What am I lacking, and how do you think I might be able to overcome that?" This way, you'll know if the person gave you a sketchy LOR, AND you might even still be able to use them for next cycle if they're able to see your growth over the next year. If they give you crap feedback at this point, you'll know you shouldn't use them again. If you don't feel comfortable asking that, you're probably not asking the right person for a LOR imho.

How to prevent this from happening in the first place? You can just as easily have the same talk BEFORE you apply. This is also why it's so crucial to ask if they'll be able to write a strong/great LOR for you. "will you write me a rec?" leaves you open for some risky business.

 

[Bisbee]

Armymutt - Where the letter writers happy to let you write your own? I would feel funny asking someone to write a letter for me and then in the next breath saying, "But I just need you to sign it because I'd rather write it myself." It seems a bit awkward. Could you give a few details of how these conversations went for those of us who may want to try it sometime? Thanks in advance.

 

[jmo1012]

it has been emphasized to me a thousand times to always ask "would you be willing to write me a positive letter of recommendation?"

 

[HelloNello]

.

 

[LetItSnow]

One of my evaluators asked me to write my own letter and I felt extremely uncomfortable doing so.

In spite of me advocating against it, I don't think it's sketchy or you need to feel uncomfortable. In the end, the evaluator is "signing" their name, attesting to the contents of the letter. Who really "wrote" it is immaterial from the ethical perspective.

 

[Minnerbelle]

In spite of me advocating against it, I don't think it's sketchy or you need to feel uncomfortable. In the end, the evaluator is "signing" their name, attesting to the contents of the letter. Who really "wrote" it is immaterial from the ethical perspective.

That, and it's pretty common practice in large universities and evaluators who are too busy/too lazy/not invested to ask you to do so. I just don't know how I would feel about me personally deciding that's the way it should go and imposing on the evaluator rather than the other way around.

 

[T_Rose]

One of my evaluators asked me to write my own letter and I felt extremely uncomfortable doing so.

I had the same happen to me for an evaluation for one of the supplemental applications. I felt uncomfortable doing so, but I knew the veterinarian would edit it to her liking. My biggest problem was that I didn't know what to write especially since I hadn't worked for her for a few years. The vet tech wanted to write it for me because she had a lot of good things to say, but the veterinarian wanted me to write it.

As long as the evaluator edits it and signs it, I don't see too much of a problem with it. It probably won't have much meaning to you personally as an evaluation you didn't write yourself. In those situations, the strength of the evaluation is somewhat up to you.

 

[russellang]

I asked her if she could write me a strong letter and we did have several talks about what to include in the letter. I could tell she spent alot of time writing the letter. She has been out of school for 2 years, I still say "new grad" but she didnt just graduate over the summer or anything. I would have preferred getting another vet with more experience but I spent alot of time with her and felt we were close enough and I didnt have another vet I was really close to that had more experience. The timeline of the letter was not during a period where I was antisocial and sense corrected the issue, I have always been outgoing at the clinic with coworkers and clients.

I realize what she said was based on my personality but I cant tell you how many times I have done special favors for her sense I started working with her. I just thought she would at least not bad mouth me in her letter. If she truly felt these ways about me, there is a way to write that without making comments in that manner. Oh and the adcoms said "aggressive" was more in my desire to treat patients and not my personality, just to clarify.

In terms of what I said, I didnt have to refute what she said much because the adcoms said clearly I was not unable to communicate with others and that this person must have mixed me up with someone else and they would disregard her letter.

Im still in a state of shock at the moment that she would do that to me. I am however extremely thankful that they informed me of it which they are not supposed to do so I can prepare for answers during future interviews as you guys said. However, I cant help but be paranoid that this letter might keep me from getting an interview. Obviously I can take away any notion I am antisocial in an interview but if I cant interview because of what she said that would just really bother me. However, I will never know if that is the case.

 

[kaydubs]

Im still in a state of shock at the moment that she would do that to me. I am however extremely thankful that they informed me of it which they are not supposed to do so I can prepare for answers during future interviews as you guys said. However, I cant help but be paranoid that this letter might keep me from getting an interview. Obviously I can take away any notion I am antisocial in an interview but if I cant interview because of what she said that would just really bother me. However, I will never know if that is the case.

I'm sorry to hear this happened, russellang. I've skimmed the postings and agree with timeline importance and also the fact it's a letter of recommendation....not a "let me write anything about this person cause s/he asked." Try not to be too paranoid about it (aka think of ways to explain it IF it comes up at another interview).

I feel that a lot of interviews (maybe not ALL) involves the ability to think on your feet. Your interviewers can easily trip you up....if you leave yourself open to it. I mean, we can't account for every little sneeze we ever had BUT we can prepare a semi-solid defense without coming off with "YES, I KNOW I SNEEZED 10,000 TIMES BUT PLEASE JUST ACCEPT ME" Keep it in perspective and do your OWN personal best. [Personally, I'm more of an anti-social introvert...did that come across in my interview? Who knows....I wasn't interviewing but BEING interviewed....I wanted to make a good first impression despite what they'd heard/read about me (Sorry if I sound like I'm beating around the bush....)]

 

[Armymutt25A]

Armymutt - Where the letter writers happy to let you write your own? I would feel funny asking someone to write a letter for me and then in the next breath saying, "But I just need you to sign it because I'd rather write it myself." It seems a bit awkward. Could you give a few details of how these conversations went for those of us who may want to try it sometime? Thanks in advance.

No problem. With the one from my boss, the conversation went something like this:
ME: Sir, I'm applying to vet school and one of the requirements for admission is a LOR. Would you mind writing one for me?

Him: No problem. Shoot me a draft.

I then took my evaluation from him, built a paragraph based on it, and then molded my message into it. This probably won't work for most applicants without a significant work history.

For the letters from peers, who are also DVMs:
Me: So I've decided I'm going to apply this year. Can you write me a LOR?
Them: I'd be delighted!
Me: Ok, I'll put together some key points regarding my time with you.
Them: Awesome!

Remember that most LOR writers aren't really focused on what you do. If you've never been a boss, you aren't likely to realize that you pay a lot less attention to people who perform well vs. those that you are trying not to kill on a daily basis. Anytime I had to write an evaluation, I made that person create a list of tasks accomplished. It's very hard to write a good eval from memory. All you are doing is helping them remember all the things you've done.

 

[goldielocks137]

Russellang, I'm sorry that this happened but I wouldn't worry too much about it affecting your chances for interviews. Most schools consider the other parts of your application in deciding whether to invite you for an interview, and then consider your LORs with your interview. And based on your interview this week, your interpersonal skills left a good impression on the interviewers so this LOR lost importance. It is good to know this though so you can be sure to dislodge what this vet said.

 

[Megascops Asio]

You can just as easily have the same talk BEFORE you apply. This is also why it's so crucial to ask if they'll be able to write a strong/great LOR for you. "will you write me a rec?" leaves you open for some risky business.

I definitely did this earlier this year. The second vet at the clinic I work at has, at times, seemed very off in her own world. Basically, if its not something she's directly involved with, she doesn't seem to pay much attention to it. I used to question whether or not she could truly give me a good recommendation if I were to ask her for one. I asked her one day if there was anything that she thought I could do to improve, so that if I asked for a recommendation from any of the vets, I would receive a good one.

She gave me some good feedback. I was surprised to see how much she actually had paid attention to all that I had been doing. And since then, she's stepped in (more so than the vet who I work with on a more normal basis) and gone well out of her way to teach me new things/techniques/etc. So, speaking with her helped me in more ways than I had intended.

I plan on getting in touch with all of my hopeful LOR writers mid-Spring to give them a heads up that I'll be starting the applying process in the summer and to ask if they all would be willing to write strong recommendations for me. That way, if there is any uncertainty, I can work on it.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Armymutt - Where the letter writers happy to let you write your own? I would feel funny asking someone to write a letter for me and then in the next breath saying, "But I just need you to sign it because I'd rather write it myself." It seems a bit awkward. Could you give a few details of how these conversations went for those of us who may want to try it sometime? Thanks in advance.

That would be awkward.. but you can offer to help if necessary which I offered to do in all cases where a letter wasn't promptly submitted!

One letter (my boss), I was told he was too busy, but if I write a draft he would make some changes and send it on. He kept most of it... and made fun of me a little in the process.

2 others, the writers asked me to review the letters for them and make recommendations.

And the key to writing your own recommendation (in my opinion) is to make sure you write it from the recommenders point of view. Think of the situations they observe you in and what kind of impression you make. Try to remember anecdotes that show you in a good light. You should be able to write entirely different recommendations for yourself in each instance.

Especially the anecdotes also remind your recommender what kind of person you are.

 

[libster06]

WTH- i don't understand people that agree to write recommendation letters, only to say crap like that. Seriously, it is a RECOMMENDATION letter. If you've got nothing good to say, then don't agree to write. I mean, do these people LIKE to see people fail???

THIS is why I always tell people to make sure to clarify with their potential LOR writers that they will write a POSITIVE LOR. People always seem to brush me off for saying this on here, but clearly it needs to be reiterated.

When you ask someone to write you a recommendation letter , you're asking them to write what they recommend regarding your acceptance/deservance of award/whatever the case may be. NOT A LETTER TO SPECIFICALLY POSITIVELY RECOMMEND YOU. Yea, this is the goal of every applicant who asks their writers to write letters for them however, when you've been in the business world for a while and have been asked by different people over the years to write letters, your definition of what an "LOR" is, changes.

When someone sh*ts on you constantly, even in your position of authority or advisory, and then comes back at the end of the year asking for simply a "letter of recommendation," and then, expecting false accolades while not bothering to clarify that you will write a *positive* letter of recommendation, it's the applicant's issue, not the writer's. The writer was doing exactly as they were asked. They are at liberty to write whatever they want and unfortunately for you, not under any kind of obligation to tell you they can't write favorably about you... Fair? Probably not. Common? Most definitely.

It is YOUR (the applicant's) responsibility to a) first of all choose someone that you trust will write you a decent (or better) letter and b) to then personally discuss briefly with them that they will be able to speak positively and favorably about you. You can't simply go in with the notion of "well if they don't have anything good to say about me why did they agree to write it??"

 

[russellang]

I asked her to write me a strong letter and she still wrote negative things about me. In my opinion, writing negative comments in a letter of recommendation defeats the purpose of the letter. If an applicant asks for a strong letter and they turn around and write negative comments, that is innapropriate and deciving, they need to either say they cannot write the letter or that they have issues with that person. In addition, this vet graduated two years ago, she knows how hard vet school is to get into and how saying anything negative will be focused upon by schools which it was. If you are writing a letter of recommendation for admission, I believe it only makes since that you only talk about positive things in the letter, because writing negative comments would not be recommending that person for admission, instead it would be discouraging admission.

Even if I did not say "strong" or "positive" when I asked her, I still dont think its appropriate to write negative comments. A letter of recommendation is to encourage admission into a program. I believe writing a letter of recommendation with negative comments is a contradiction, especially the negative comments she made about me, which are not only negative but not true. For instance, she must have said "I recommend this applicant for vet school BUT they cannot communicate with other people, something that is so vital and required for a vet."

But to each their own regarding how they feel about LOR's. As I said, the rest of the interview went well. I got a call a few days ago, I got early admittance into the program due to how my interview went. I can indeed talk to other people

 

[kaydubs]

But to each their own regarding how they feel about LOR's. As I said, the rest of the interview went well. I got a call a few days ago, I got early admittance into the program due to how my interview went. I can indeed talk to other people

And this is what counts Seems like your first impression was a success...well, maybe it's technically your "second" but it's your first "real" one

 

[libster06]

Even if I did not say "strong" or "positive" when I asked her, I still dont think its appropriate to write negative comments. A letter of recommendation is to encourage admission into a program. I believe writing a letter of recommendation with negative comments is a contradiction, especially the negative comments she made about me, which are not only negative but not true.

I used to feel this way also and then everyone on here jumped on my case about "not assuming the letters will be positive". As I said before, whether its right or fair, or whatever or not, its how it is. While I can see how you would be upset with a "negative comment" on your LOR and it's unfortunate that she made you feel deceived, at the same time I must ask you- how do you know she just basically slammed you?? How do you know she didn't write a fairly glowing review, while also sharing a weakness of yours she thought was honestly pertinent to the interviewers?

Maybe she truly thinks you are an excellent candidate for vet school, but she felt you just don't communicate well (also moment to interject: being outgoing/aggressive [imo] =/= being able to communicate... I'm not sure what the correlation they were trying to make there was). The good news for you and the adcoms is that there are quite a few people in vet school who don't communicate well with others! I don't see a problem with citing an applicant's strong points as well as things they could work on, if you REALLY feel it's necessary. If someone had worked for me, and we got along really well with and I knew them well, and they were certain I would write a good review, but it was also mutually known that they had a habit of being late pretty consistently, I would include that in my LOR. I think its valid- doesn't mean they're not acceptable and distinguishable, but it does mean they have a flaw that needs to be addressed.

For instance, she must have said "I recommend this applicant for vet school BUT they cannot communicate with other people, something that is so vital and required for a vet."

....that would still be a recommendation..... pointing out a weakness she noticed in you doesn't mean she threw you under the bus necessarily. I got a file review done from Miss State and they said my LORs weren't all that to write home about either. It happens, try not to get too hung up on it.

 

[LetItSnow]

I used to feel this way also and then everyone on here jumped on my case about "not assuming the letters will be positive".

Eh. Not everyone, because I certainly wouldn't have disagreed with that. People here always think only from their (the applicant) perspective. They rarely consider the perspective of the evaluator.

When I was in business and people would ask for a recommendation for our advancement committee, they occasionally would forget that I served two masters in that situation: the promotee, and the company. The way I see it, my obligation was always to evaluate them as accurately and fairly as I could. If that meant an overall negative letter - because it was in the company's best interest not to promote this person (in my eyes) - than that's what they got. If they weren't smart enough to ask me beforehand what I would be saying (or what the tone of the letter would be), that's on their shoulders, not mine. If they were smart enough to ask, they'd get an honest answer and they'd be free to choose whether to have me write something on their behalf or to find someone else.

The same holds true for a vet writing a letter to a vet school. They have to consider what's good for the industry, too. If an applicant doesn't say "Can you write me a very positive letter" there is no reason an applicant should assume the vet will say only positive things just because they agree to write a letter.

Applicants tend to get myopic and think that the whole applications process is only about them. It's about who is in the industry and who they'll be working with in the future. The people already in it have an obligation to do a fair job evaluating applicants, not to only write positive things because that's "nice" and because the applicant "assumes" they will. That's an applicant's fantasy.

That said, if anyone asked their evaluator what the nature of their comments would be, got back one answer, and then got something else in the evaluation - that is absolutely not cool.

 

[russellang]

Hey guys its been a while and I have a few updates. So the news got back to the doctor concerning the letter and she wanted to talk to me about it but we have not seen one another (schedule changed and I dont work with her as I am in the field all the time now). She has talked about it with other coworkers who have told me what she said about me in her letter. They said she said she wrote nothing negative but said that my communcation schools have improved while she has known me.

Since my first interview, I have been on a few more interviews and have gotten in a few schools. I am not sure how to take this. Did the first school overreact or misunderstand what she said? What I keep going back to is at the end of the interview the admissions staff said they would disregard her letter. If all she said was that my communcation skills improved, I am just a little confused why that would be grounds for them to disregard her letter. However, I have gotten into a few schools so either the first school misunderstood what she wrote or the other schools disregarded her letter as well since the other letters were all good. I guess I am not sure what to believe anymore.

As I said, I have not talked to her about the letter and I could potentionally not talk to her about it from here on out as we dont see each other much anymore. Do you think the first school just made up what she said to see how I react to unexpected situations? Unfortunately I will never know what she did write. Any thoughts?

Thank you

 

[RadRadTerp]

I can't remember how it was when I did my applications, but I know that I never got to see my LORs. However, in applying for various summer programs and such, a lot of my LOR-writers have sent me copies of their letters for me to evaluate. As in, they'd ask, "Does this letter address everything you need it to? Please let me know if you think I should change anything." Maybe the clinicians and instructors are a lot more willing to work with me here, but it's definitely a change of tone compared to before veterinary school.

 

[Emiloo4]

Do you think the first school just made up what she said to see how I react to unexpected situations? Unfortunately I will never know what she did write. Any thoughts?

Thank you

I'm starting to think that maybe they just twisted her words a little in order to adress your coomunication skills... not sure about the disregarding letter thing though. Either they stretched the truth to ask a question, or she is trying to sugar coat what she wrote now that it got back to you. Either way, I don't think you'll ever really know one way or the other (unless she shows you what she wrote, sans her editing it now). Just be happy you were accepted! Even if she truly did write a negative letter, several schools thought you were so promising, they didn't care. Enjoy this time and celebrate!

 

[russellang]

I am glad I got into schools and that it did not really weaken my application. However, its unfortunate I will never know the real truth. If I get into my IS I will be continuing to go to the clinic as the owner vet is going to mentor me throughout vet school. However, this associate vet is the other primary doctor and I cannot just ignore the issue with her, I will have to talk to her about it. She apparently has offered to show me the letter to prove it but as said she could have just edited it. She not that type of person but I also never heard of adcoms twisting the truth to see how you react.

 

[sumstorm]

a letter of recommendation does not mean a letter of recommendation for admissions. I could also recommend that someone not be admitted. My recommendation is not the same as my endorsement.

I do something similar to ArmyMutt. I ask my LOR writer if they are willing to write a LOR that is very positive regarding these aspects/qualities and references their experiences with me (followed by a list of the points I want them to cover.) If they say yes, I ask if they have any concerns about any of those issues. If so, we discuss. If not, I ask if I can send them information on what the LOR readers are seeking and the points I am asking them to emphasize. No one (in any field) has ever refused this and most appreciate it. Then I send them an organized email where I briefly outline what I am asking them for in terms of the LOR, give them a list of experiences I have with them that I feel illustrate the aspects or qualities I am asking them to write about. I also emphasize that if they have any concerns about any aspect of this letter or do not feel they can be very positive about any of it, I would really appreciate that they discuss it with me BEFORE they submit the letter.

This helps ensure that no LOR writer is trying to cover every important detail of who I am (and glossing over how they know that about me), nor are they giving extremly contradictory statements about a particular aspect, and I am refreshing their memory about our shared experiences so they don't confuse the tech that covered my shift once and screwed up royally. I have had LOR writers tell me they really appreciate this, and some have used it as an outline for their own letters. Part of my job as a future employee is to make my boss successful; I want them to be a successful LOR writer as well. Additionally, I ask for this when LOR's are requested of me (previous career still calls some days) and it is immensely helpful.

For example, That really crazy day of 6 emergencies and the angry client and the successful C-section 4 years ago that cemented your interest in vet med? Well, I don't really remember it all that well, and you were one of 8 techs I worked with that day, and my husband and I had an argument that morning and my mom had a bad experience at the human doctor. But now that you mention it....you were pretty great at calming the angry Chihuahua owner down and you got the catheter on that third emergency case in despite her trying to eat everyone alive, and you stuck around without complaint at the end of the day when we were all running behind. yeah, maybe I will share all that in the LOR you asked me to write, because you were pretty awesome when you were here...hey, why aren't you still working here? Oh, yeah, that whole college thing....

 

[Bisbee]

I agree with EL that either the LOR writer doesn't want to admit that her letter was as negative as it was, or the interviewers were looking for something to bring up and exaggerated what was said in the LOR. In either case, you have been accepted to other schools, and maybe it's best to put this issue behind you at this point. However, I would be aware of whatever the issue was (communication skills) and try improve as you go forward. Additionally, I would send a short email to the LOR writer saying that you don't really need to take up her time meeting in person, and that you appreciate the LOR and have gotten in to vet school. I'd also mention that iff she still has some input/suggestions for you, that you value her opinion you welcome it at any time. Do this, move on and enjoy vet school!

 

[LetItSnow]

I am glad I got into schools and that it did not really weaken my application. However, its unfortunate I will never know the real truth. If I get into my IS I will be continuing to go to the clinic as the owner vet is going to mentor me throughout vet school. However, this associate vet is the other primary doctor and I cannot just ignore the issue with her, I will have to talk to her about it.

You have to decide how important it is to you, of course, but if I were in your shoes this is one of those battles I'd walk away from and just try to smile and make good with the vet in question. Something like: "You know what? I'm sure they just misunderstood what you wrote. I don't need to see the letter - I trust you." Whatever is appropriate for you and your relationship with that person....

In the end, you gain more by doing that - you fix a potentially broken relationship that might have future impact on you in the profession. You get nothing other than personal satisfaction by seeing what this person *actually* wrote, and what does that really get you? You already got accepted, so it doesn't much matter.

Anyway, that's just me. I could easily live with never knowing what that person truly said and whether it was them writing something weird, the school reading something weird, the school throwing you a curve ball (I really doubt they'd intentionally do that), or what. I'd take my acceptances, say 'no harm, no foul', and move on. But if you're the type of person that just NEEDS to know ... then there ya go. Go find out.

That said, I'd also be pragmatic - I wouldn't ask for a recommendation from that person again.

 

[missdarjeeling]

That, and it's pretty common practice in large universities and evaluators who are too busy/too lazy/not invested to ask you to do so. I just don't know how I would feel about me personally deciding that's the way it should go and imposing on the evaluator rather than the other way around.

Wow, really? I'm very surprised to hear this. On the humanities side of things, letters are supposed to be absolutely confidential, and I've never, ever had an evaluator ask me to write my own LOR or even tell me what they wrote after the fact. It was common practice to provide a description of the program/job and a copy of your application materials (CV, transcripts, personal statement, supplementals, etc.) but that was it. And everyone I spoke to, including those who reviewed PhD program applications, said they would never take an application seriously if the applicant didn't waive their right to access their LORs. Now that I'm helping our director with graduate admissions at another institution (a gigantic one, no less), it's the same policy. And any letters written for a student have to go out directly from our office; students aren't allowed to pick up the hard copy and mail it themselves, and each one requires a signature across the flap on the back of the envelope. Interesting...

 

[sumstorm]

Wow, really? I'm very surprised to hear this. On the humanities side of things, letters are supposed to be absolutely confidential, and I've never, ever had an evaluator ask me to write my own LOR or even tell me what they wrote after the fact. It was common practice to provide a description of the program/job and a copy of your application materials (CV, transcripts, personal statement, supplementals, etc.) but that was it. And everyone I spoke to, including those who reviewed PhD program applications, said they would never take an application seriously if the applicant didn't waive their right to access their LORs. Now that I'm helping our director with graduate admissions at another institution (a gigantic one, no less), it's the same policy. And any letters written for a student have to go out directly from our office; students aren't allowed to pick up the hard copy and mail it themselves, and each one requires a signature across the flap on the back of the envelope. Interesting...

Confidential does not mean that the person whose confidence is guaranteed can't then opt to reveal what they shared. IE if I have a meeting with a doctor and get a diagnosis, the doctor can't call my husband and share the diagnosis without my permission, but I can. So an LOR writer can share whatever they want with the person they are recommending; it wasn't uncommon for my college mentors to write a letter, send it off, and send me a copy for my files. They weren't writing anything they hadn't alread shared with me in our discussions, so there wasn't any issues with what they wrote. I know professors that have one of their assistants write out the letters, then tweak them (very easy in the computer age) and in some cases, not only do the professors have an assistant write them, then they tweek them, then they have them reviewed by the career center and a translator so that their second language doesn't negatively impact the student. I would agree that system wide students weren't allowed to mail in the recommendations or collect the letters or such, but the interaction between a writer and an applicant are highly varied. I know folks in the fine arts that had similar relatioships with their mentors and knew exactly what the letter stated. It is very possible for somene to be an excellent researcher, a remarkable scientist, and an amazing mentor and be a terrible letter writer; I think it is important that we all recognize our own weaknesses and adjust for those. As long as they truely endorse what they are signing and it is honest, it doens't necessarily matter how they reached that point.