What about Arabs?

[RxAZ]

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[UCFMOP]

It is not about numbers. Look at the Asians, they are a less percentage of the US population than Blacks are. Experts call Asians "model minorities" because they dont have the same problem as Blacks or to an extent Hispanics and have a higher graduation rate and college graduates than all other races.

You kind of answered your question really.

 

[TamarMD]

Yes it's wrong to consider yourself Underrepresented. Not in accordance with the US Census but rather that URM stands for Underrepresented in the MEDICAL field. Arabs are not considered URM because there are a lot more Arab doctors than AA and Hispanic.

I'm not sure if you are considered First Generation in regards to US Standards. You should call your undergrad and see what they say about that.

 

[drzing]

it really just depends what arab country you are from. If you are from an arab country in north africa (libya, egypt, algeria, lebanon, etc...) then you are "African American", not black. If you are from the Iraq/Iran/Syria area then i would say you are a caucasion...if i were you i would just put on your apps whatever you put on your undergrad application...if you walk into an interview and it says that your black and you obviously arent, alot of eyebrows will be raised quite high

 

[UCFMOP]

alot of eyebrows will be raised quite high

Approximately 20 feet in the air high, like so high thier eyebrows will be in the ionosphere.

Seriously though, good advice from the guy above.

 

[Tired]

So what are Arabs considered? Politically, nobody would ever call an Arab "caucasion", yet we are supposed to mark that on any forms we fill out (probably so that we don't get any benefits)! I definitely don't look caucasion, and there are less Arabs in this country than there are African Americans or Hispanic/Latin American. Would it be wrong to consider myself underrepresented? Also, my parents have bachelor's degrees, but not from this country and not in English or anything that was ever able to be used here - would I still be considered the first to obtain a college education (US standards)?

Fail.

 

[norm256]

from an arab country in north africa (libya, egypt, algeria, lebanon, etc...)

OK, first, don't discuss geography in your interview. Lebanon ain't in Africa.

Back to OP. Even if you were from a North African country, you would not qualify as African American according to the URM classification. That is reserved for folks whose heritage is sub-Saharan Africa.

 

[njbmd]

So what are Arabs considered? Politically, nobody would ever call an Arab "caucasion", yet we are supposed to mark that on any forms we fill out (probably so that we don't get any benefits)! I definitely don't look caucasion, and there are less Arabs in this country than there are African Americans or Hispanic/Latin American. Would it be wrong to consider myself underrepresented? Also, my parents have bachelor's degrees, but not from this country and not in English or anything that was ever able to be used here - would I still be considered the first to obtain a college education (US standards)?

Your ethnicity would be whatever you decide to identify yourself as Saudi Arabian, Egyptian, Iranian, Iraqi etc. If you want to describe yourself as "disadvantaged" because you are the first in your family to obtain a college education, the go that route but by ethnicity (Arab), you are not Underrepresented in Medicine by the designations set forth by the AAMC. You can actually mark anything that you want on any application. All of the racial/ethnic designations on any application are "self" designations and last check, no one is standing over you with a gun to your head telling you to check off boxes. Your choice dude/dudette.

 

[drzing]

OK, first, don't discuss geography in your interview. Lebanon ain't in Africa.

Back to OP. Even if you were from a North African country, you would not qualify as African American according to the URM classification. That is reserved for folks whose heritage is sub-Saharan Africa.

lol i guess its a good thing that these forums are all anonymous...me not knowing where lebanon is and all..thats just embarrasing

 

[Madinat]

So what are Arabs considered? Politically, nobody would ever call an Arab "caucasion", yet we are supposed to mark that on any forms we fill out (probably so that we don't get any benefits)! I definitely don't look caucasion, and there are less Arabs in this country than there are African Americans or Hispanic/Latin American. Would it be wrong to consider myself underrepresented? Also, my parents have bachelor's degrees, but not from this country and not in English or anything that was ever able to be used here - would I still be considered the first to obtain a college education (US standards)?

wtf...are you serious?

your parents went to college. how are you in any way a first generation college graduate? seems to me you're trying to twist designations that are set up to help the genuinely disadvantaged for your own self-gain.

i'm reading what you wrote.... that their degrees are not in english.... is 2+2=4 in arabic? i guess not, according to your logic.

 

[bipolardoc]

I have plenty of middle-eastern friends and really dont think it's right how they are forced to choose white on all applications for school and work. They are not white. If anyone with fair skin is white, then everyone who isnt african american should be classified as white as well.

 

[OnDemond]

I'm very confused about this URM business...it seems to me like you're using your ethnic background to push yourself ahead of everyone else...Don't you think that qualification is the only factor that should matter in any type of school application?
I mean, are we losing focus about what this country stands for? The U.S. is supposed to be a melting pot, not a salad bowl. Why must we insist on continuing to live in disparate communities, based on where you're old country is? Don't you think there would be less hate, bias, and prejudice in this country if we tore down those racial barriers by identifying ourselves as Americans, not Arab- African- Indian- Hispanic- etc.??
If you insist on that the doctors you have are Arabic, than you've come to the wrong country. My wife's OB-GYN is Indian, even though we're not. There's nothing wrong with having physicians who aren't of your ethnic decsent. The only way we could come to live together is if we expose ourselves to each other - otherwise we will be divided. This is an issue which really hurts me.😕

 

[PerolaNegra]

According to the United States government you are not racially or ethnically African-American. You are Caucasian.

If I were you I would go for "Other".

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/inforeg/re_guidance2000update.pdf

 

[Deepa100]

I have plenty of middle-eastern friends and really dont think it's right how they are forced to choose white on all applications for school and work. They are not white. If anyone with fair skin is white, then everyone who isnt african american should be classified as white as well.

I have a Caucasian friend who thinks middle eastern and a certain caste in India are Caucasians. She reads a lot and is a doctor but I am not sure if she is correct. Just some food for thought. I think if you take classes in ethnic studies etc., you are taught stuff that others don't know or don't care about or don't agree with.

 

[ChemEngMD]

I have a Caucasian friend who thinks middle eastern and a certain caste in India are Caucasians. She reads a lot and is a doctor but I am not sure if she is correct. Just some food for thought. I think if you take classes in ethnic studies etc., you are taught stuff that others don't know or don't care about or don't agree with.

Ethnically speaking Arabs originally derive from the Caucus Mountains and thus are "Caucasian" according to many schools of thought. Granted, there is probably a decent amount of mixing with African tribes that have led to many people having non-white features. Arabic people that I've met come in all shades and colors. I know some that you would mistake for East African and some that you would mistake for European. According to the US Census though...Arabs are white.

 

[PropsMPH]

I'm blown away by some of the responses here. There's something wrong if your only choice is to mark Caucasian because this doesn't adequately represent you or your lived experience. I mean if you look at the political reality of racism and ethnic-phobia in the United States Arabs are disadvantaged/underrepresented period. I would go with "Middle Eastern" if they have it or "other."

 

[devilpup]

I mean if you look at the political reality of racism and ethnic-phobia in the United States Arabs are disadvantaged/underrepresented period.

Not in accordance with the US Census but rather that URM stands for Underrepresented in the MEDICAL field. Arabs are not considered URM because there are a lot more Arab doctors than AA and Hispanic.

.

there.

 

[AshPreMed]

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[PantherPride]

There are about as many Arab premeds and physicians as African-American premeds and physicians.

So what you just said kind of proves it. Blacks constitute nearly 13% of the American population while Arabs constitute only 0.5% of the US population. All the data is from the US census bureau.

Only 3.5% of physicians in the US are black, therefore, if there's as many arab physicians as african american physicians, as you say, that means arabs are overrepresented relative to their population in the US.

 

[AshPreMed]

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[PantherPride]

I don't know the exact statistics. I shouldn't have equated them but my statement is that arab doctors are a minority qualitatively speaking. We need stats! lol

Well you can't claim they're underrepresented when you don't have the stats yourself lol. We know they're a minority, as are blacks, but that is different from being underrepresented. Even if arabs made up 1% of the physician population, they would still be more than well represented. There's no doubt, however, that blacks count for a very significant portion of our population, more so than arabs, and are severely underrepresented in medicine.

 

[AshPreMed]

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[411309]

This whole ideal is highly stupid and contradictory. This politically correct country says race shouldn't matter and we shouldn't look at people in terms of race but yet if you're one race you're automatically considered disadvantaged. Ridiculous. We say segregation is bad so we make all black medical schools. We say success shouldn't be based on race yet more preference is given to one race over another. Irony?

Honestly i don't really care if certain races are "under represented in health care" because I think the only the strong willed should get in, and that's not based on race. It's gotten to the point where people will go to extremes just to classify themselves as URM. It's sad really. I went to high school that was run down and was overall a D fcat school, meaning we were one of the ****tiest in the state. Yet here I am. So if you want to say that one race specifically is targeted and gets a weaker learning environment ill laugh because if you saw my learning environment than you couldn't possibly use that excuse. Libraries are free. if someone wants to learn, they can use the damn library.

Education is free and there are so many opportunities to access it these days. The whole URM status has become a joke.

 

[PantherPride]

This whole ideal is highly stupid and contradictory. This politically correct country says race shouldn't matter and we shouldn't look at people in terms of race but yet if you're one race you're automatically considered disadvantaged. Ridiculous. We say segregation is bad so we make all black medical schools. We say success shouldn't be based on race yet more preference is given to one race over another. Irony?

Honestly i don't really care if certain races are "under represented in health care" because I think the only the strong willed should get in, and that's not based on race. It's gotten to the point where people will go to extremes just to classify themselves as URM. It's sad really. I went to high school that was run down and was overall a D fcat school, meaning we were one of the ****tiest in the state. Yet here I am. So if you want to say that one race specifically is targeted and gets a weaker learning environment ill laugh because if you saw my learning environment than you couldn't possibly use that excuse. Libraries are free. if someone wants to learn, they can use the damn library.

Education is free and there are so many opportunities to access it these days. The whole URM status has become a joke.

URM programs in med schools aren't put in place to help disadvantaged students. That's a very common fallacy on these boards.

also, there's no all black med schools in America

 

[411309]

URM programs in med schools aren't put in place to help disadvantaged students. That's a very common fallacy on these boards.

also, there's no all black med schools in America

yes i realize why they're put into place; for a redudant reason.

and no all black medical schools? meharry for example?

 

[PantherPride]

yes i realize why they're put into place; for a redudant reason.

and no all black medical schools? meharry for example?

If you realize why they're put in place, why would you base your post bashing it for some other reason?

And Meharry isn't all black, same goes for the other historically black universities like Howard. They also take in other races- a high percentage of blacks just happen to apply there. Not only that, but a very significant portion of the students in these schools aspire to and end up working in underserved areas, so why you would attack them is beyond me.

 

[ElleWoodsMD]

The Census Bureau has recognized four ethnic/racial groups as being minorities, and Arabs ain't one of them. A lot of it has to do with how well they've assimilated into mainstream (read: white) society, how much access they have to major institutions, etc. Most people don't know an Arab from a white person (or as is the case here in Texas, a Mexican), which affords them a certain pass that the recognized groups do not benefit from.

 

[AshPreMed]

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[411309]

If you realize why they're put in place, why would you base your post bashing it for some other reason?

And Meharry isn't all black, same goes for the other historically black universities like Howard. They also take in other races- a high percentage of blacks just happen to apply there. Not only that, but a very significant portion of the students in these schools aspire to and end up working in underserved areas, so why you would attack them is beyond me.

What chance does a white person have at getting accepted there? Lets be realistic.

 

[AshPreMed]

What chance does a white person have at getting accepted there? Lets be realistic.

Sorry, but this thread is about Arab just representation and your unrelated posts are filling up this thread and diverting the entire discussion. Please considerately start a new thread to argue about Whites vs Blacks being accepted into Meharry. Thank you.

 

[HipChick]

References:

Census Statistics Canada:
"http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2006/ref/rp-guides/visible_minority-minorites_visibles-eng.cfm#Classifications"

Caucasians (excludes Arabs) in USA:
72.4% of total population "http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html"

African Americans in USA:
12.6% of total pop. "http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html"

Asians/Pacific Americans (East Asians) in USA:
5.6% of total pop. "http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/cb11-ff06.html"

Asian Indians in USA:
0.9% of total pop. "http://www.nriol.com/welcome2america/indian-americans.asp" & "http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/c2kbr01-16.pdf"

Arabs in USA:
0.00426% of total pop. (~211x,1315x, and 2957x less than Asian Indians, East Asians, and Blacks, respectively) "http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-23.pdf"


Ash

I do not agree it is correct. However, if by your stats .00426% of the pop is Arab, and 1% of the physician population is Arab, versus 13% of the pop is black/AA and only 1% of the physician population is black, that doesn't equate to you being under represented IN MEDICINE. I think that is the key here, IN MEDICINE. (the 1% is an example).

once again, I do not believe in the categorization, but this is the unfortunate reality 🙁

 

[johnan]

I'm sorry, where you people supposed to be knowledgeable?
Most of you (including your average American) don't even know what Caucasian means. Caucasians are natives of Europe, North Africa, West Asia & some central & south Asians. Arabs (from Morocco to Yemen) definitely fit in this definition. The term derives from the Caucus mountains which are located in Turkey (which IS in West Asia), West Asia being where Arabs originate from! People of the Caucus were thought to look like a good median between all these culturally, ethnically, linguistically & religiously diverse people (which is only natural considering the large landmass they occupy..from Iceland all the way to India), though they still belong to the same race.