What age do female surgeons usually have children?

[Justiii]

I've been wondering at what age do female surgeons usually have children? I'm really interested in going to medical school but I don't want to be in my 30's for my first child. Is there a possibility of having children relatively "young" if I want to be a a surgeon, particularly a specialized pediatric surgeon and not have it completely get in the way of my career? Thanks!

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[angleoflouise]

I am pregnant now with my first. I am 29 and will have her at 29. I am a third year surgical resident, but I am doing this during my research years. So its doable! 🙂 Especially if you want to do pediatric surgery as you will NEED to have at least two years research on your application.

 

[Knightmd]

Research years is your only window of opportunity. It's actually the unofficial reason why programs have research years.

 

[Knightmd]

With words like "only" that imply absolute truth and exclusivity, yes both would be incorrect. But relatively speaking, with no absolute terms, they are correct.

 

[angleoflouise]

I should have elaborated more. I have met a lot of surgical residents in residency and on the interview trail that were pregnant or already had children that they had in residency. I even met one pregnant INTERN! I am not sure if they were in their late 20s or early 30s, though.
Research years are just for that, research, not to have babies, that is a ridiculous statement. However, if you are in research, why not take advantage of the more lenient lifestyle and have a baby.

 

[Winged Scapula]

With words like "only" that imply absolute truth and exclusivity, yes both would be incorrect. But relatively speaking, with no absolute terms, they are correct.

Given the fact that programs have had research years for decades before women were surgical residents in any considerable number, this is not the reason why programs have lab time.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I know offhand about a dozen surgery resident moms. Only one had their babies during the lab years (and she had a second kid not in the lab years).

It may seem smart to have the foresight to do so, but life rarely works out that way it seems.

As for the rest of us...we make it work schedule wise when a resident is pregnant, which is a minor PITA but not a huge deal. As for the moms...I don't know how they find the time or the strength to do it. It's impressive.

Here is a very thoughtful post from someone who went through this if the OP wants to hear more:

I have been there, exactly. I found out I was pregnant on the second day of R2 year (in surgery) and it was equally unplanned. For all the smug idiots out there, there is an enormous difference between accepting theoretically a risk that heterosexual sex leads to babies versus actively attempting to conceive one.

Firstly, what specialty is your husband in? The flexibility or lack thereof of his schedule will make all the difference. My husband is a corporate litigator gone for weeks at a time at trials, so that colored my experience. My surgical friends who had babies in residency were married to: 1) a house-husband; 2) attendings x 3; 3) a medicine resident [they were able to arrange their call so they were never on on the same night]; 4) a work-at-home realtor; 5) an engineer with banker's hours; 6) a banker with banker's hours. Most of them had family in the area-- and many of the attendings had live-in help. So they had dramatically better experiences.

Secondly, accept the fact right now that once your 28d maternity leave is up (which is what the Surgery RRC allows-- your program might give you 6 weeks, but you will have to make up the extra 2 weeks in the future by either graduating 2 weeks late or giving up all of your vacation one year) that you will, at most, be providing approximately 5-10% of the child care. You will need to make some kind of formal-- likely commercial-- arrangement to cover the other 90-95%. Surgical schedules are absolutely not conducive to regular daycares, which at best are only open for 12 hours a day and never on weekends or holidays. Nannies are usually contractually limited to working a total of 50 hours a week. Again, depending on your husband's flexibility and the availability of family member to provide *routine, reliable, free* child care, you should expect at minimum to pay for both daycare and an early morning/evening/weekend nanny. This is very expensive (I was paying $3500/month, 100% of my salary). If your husband & family are able to shoulder the load, wonderful-- just accept the fact that your bonding with the baby will be on your golden weekends, and in the evenings after s/he sleeps and in the AM before s/he awakens.

Thirdly, obviously you will work up until the day the baby is born, barring medical complications of pregnancy. The only modifications to your duties you need are being excused from the OR during fluoro procedures when you're on vascular. Personally at the very end of pregnancy I found being in the OR very difficult, physically-- it was difficult to approach the table and the heat from the bair hugger would vasodilate everything in the abdomen which made me quite light-headed. But as in intern in an academic program, that's less of a concern. 🙂

Fourthly-- by all means, take your research time early. Since you mentioned you're in an academic program, I assume you're looking at 5+2. If your program is remotely flexible, you could even consider going out into the lab after your first year. Since your baby is due in April, you'll go back after mat leave in May, and you'll only have 8 weeks max to scramble for child care before you go out into the regular banker's hours lab time. Might be a godsend.

You are not the first person to make it work, but please do not think that it's easy, and please do not think that residents in other specialties' experiences are remotely applicable to yours. You will find yourself in horrible zero-sum Catch-22s all the time-- fun things like "it's 6:30, my daycare is closing in 10min, if I don't pick up my child they call CPS at 7, but my patient is coding and night float isn't here yet." It's not PC to say this but it's true: you will be a worse resident because you have a kid. Is it worth it? I definitely think so, and I'm extremely grateful for my happy little accident.

 

[ACSurgeon]

I've been wondering at what age do female surgeons usually have children? I'm really interested in going to medical school but I don't want to be in my 30's for my first child. Is there a possibility of having children relatively "young" if I want to be a a surgeon, particularly a specialized pediatric surgeon and not have it completely get in the way of my career? Thanks!

- medical training is very challenging but having a family is doable. Probably not in the traditional sense, but you can make it work.

- surgical training in particular is more challenging, makes having a traditional mother role that much more difficult, but we've head many women have kids during their clinical years. All had very supportive husbands/families/ paid a ton in child care. You still work 70-90 hrs a week and have to study/do research/prepare talks on top of that...

- Pediatric surgery is the most challenging of general surgery specialties. Both in terms of number of years and expectations. You will spend at least seven years working your tail off to prove your worth to become a Peds fellow. The fellowship itself seems more difficult than general surgery training. Lab years are a good time to have a child, but you're usually still trying to win the acceptance of your Peds mentors. That said: we had a Peds surgery fellow with a kid that she had during her lab years, and an attending who had one or two kids by the end of her training. Again, doable but seems incredibly difficult in my opinion...

 

[thedrjojo]

32

 

[thedrjojo]

No wait, 27

 

[Trauma Surgeon]

It is never a good time for having kids! Specially for surgeons, both males and females.

Yes, it is doable to GET PREGNANT and have a kid anytime pre/during/post residency, but don't be a fool, that is the easy part. Being up all night with them since they are sick, having a teeth, just want you to hug them to sleep when you know you will have a long day ahead of you the next day where mistakes can cost someone their life; or missing their birthday since you got stuck in the trauma bay at last minute since a junky stabbed another junky in the heart is the hard part and try to explain that to a 2-3 year old why that is more important than being with them when they open their presents…

And for your information my wife i an angel who has been a home mom since she was pregnant with our first kid (2,5yrs) and we have a second one (6months old), we have absolutely no financial issues and so on, but this journey which has just began for us seems to be harder than we ever could have imagined.

So to the point: you should ask your self this: when can I and my partner be good parents?

 

[caffeinemia]

It is never a good time for having kids! Specially for surgeons, both males and females.

Yes, it is doable to GET PREGNANT and have a kid anytime pre/during/post residency, but don't be a fool, that is the easy part. Being up all night with them since they are sick, having a teeth, just want you to hug them to sleep when you know you will have a long day ahead of you the next day where mistakes can cost someone their life; or missing their birthday since you got stuck in the trauma bay at last minute since a junky stabbed another junky in the heart is the hard part and try to explain that to a 2-3 year old why that is more important than being with them when they open their presents…

And for your information my wife i an angel who has been a home mom since she was pregnant with our first kid (2,5yrs) and we have a second one (6months old), we have absolutely no financial issues and so on, but this journey which has just began for us seems to be harder than we ever could have imagined.

So to the point: you should ask your self this: when can I and my partner be good parents?

I've seen many ladies in plastics have their kids throughout their years. Home call makes things a little easier. Kinda weird when I baby sat a colleague's baby during AM rounds though...but who wants to do a million flap checks over playing with a cute baby.

 

[eablackwell]

Out of the 10 or so women I know going into surgery or surgical specialties in my graduating med school class, three of them have children already. One had two during medical school (on the same timeline as my pregnancies, so 2yrs and newborn), one has a 5 yr old, and the other has a 6 month old. All have very good support systems, which are 100% necessary to pull off kids in med school or residency. I'm not going into surgery, but I'm doing a surgery prelim year, and my surgery PD actually had a child as an M4: her husband stayed home with the baby, the same as mine will be doing starting in July. I rotated with an amazing general surgeon during M3 who had two children (ages 5 and 6 months).

What I'm saying is, it is not a general rule that women in surgery are childless, or even have children only when they are advanced maternal age. It can be done, and there's more than one window of opportunity, but you often have to force that window open...or at least learn creative ways to build a window from scratch. 😉

 

[ACSurgeon]

Out of the 10 or so women I know going into surgery or surgical specialties in my graduating med school class, three of them have children already. One had two during medical school (on the same timeline as my pregnancies, so 2yrs and newborn), one has a 5 yr old, and the other has a 6 month old. All have very good support systems, which are 100% necessary to pull off kids in med school or residency. I'm not going into surgery, but I'm doing a surgery prelim year, and my surgery PD actually had a child as an M4: her husband stayed home with the baby, the same as mine will be doing starting in July. I rotated with an amazing general surgeon during M3 who had two children (ages 5 and 6 months).

What I'm saying is, it is not a general rule that women in surgery are childless, or even have children only when they are advanced maternal age. It can be done, and there's more than one window of opportunity, but you often have to force that window open...or at least learn creative ways to build a window from scratch. 😉

While there is no perfect time, there are many bad times. As long as you stay away from the times that are absolutely bad, having a kid is doable at various points in training.

 

[vhawk]

32. And 2 weeks. Whew.

 

[MDDoubleD]

There's actually a very simple formula to calculate this (now pay very close attention, no one outside medicine knows this formula, it's a very big secret)

Ok, here it is:

Age a female surgeon has children=Age she becomes pregnant+9 months

PS, some OBs think this formula may work for females who aren't surgeons but I don't believe that

 

[MDDoubleD]

There's actually a very simple formula to calculate this (now pay very close attention, no one outside medicine knows this formula, it's a very big secret)

Ok, here it is:

Age a female surgeon has children=Age she becomes pregnant+9 months

PS, some OBs think this formula may work for females who aren't surgeons but I don't believe that

I'm not mocking you for the hell of it, you can have kids whenever. I personally would wait through residency but I don't like babies.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm not mocking you for the hell of it, you can have kids whenever. I personally would wait through residency but I don't like babies.

Are you talking to yourself?

 

[MDDoubleD]

Are you talking to yourself?

You would too if you were as fascinating as me.

 

[Winged Scapula]

You would too if you were as fascinating as me.

Hmm...

 

[Apollyon]

The Schizophrenic's Poem:

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm crazy
And so am I.

 

[MDDoubleD]

The Schizophrenic's Poem:

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm crazy
And so am I.

I'm guessing you aren't in psych.

 

[Apollyon]

I'm guessing you aren't in psych.

You know what sucks? Being good at something you hate to do. Back when I was a med student, I tried to do badly in my psych rotation, and I still got an A.

So, clearly (in my best "Jackie Chiles" voice), I made the anti-psych choice in doing EM. (<-- that is irony, as better than half of what I see is psych)

In any case, the poem was an inexact quote of Oscar Levant, who was a composer and comedian from the first half of the 20th century.

 

[MDDoubleD]

You know what sucks? Being good at something you hate to do. Back when I was a med student, I tried to do badly in my psych rotation, and I still got an A.

So, clearly (in my best "Jackie Chiles" voice), I made the anti-psych choice in doing EM. (<-- that is irony, as better than half of what I see is psych)

In any case, the poem was an inexact quote of Oscar Levant, who was a composer and comedian from the first half of the 20th century.

Ahhhh

 

[The Buff OP]

What kind of research is done in a general surgery residency and what should someone focus in if they want to land a peds fellowship?

 

[Leo Aquarius]

The Schizophrenic's Poem:

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm crazy
And so am I.

No no no. You ruined the joke.

The correct version by Levant is this:

"Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm a schizophrenic,
And so am I."

This was quoted in one of my all time favorite movies, What About Bob
(it's fall off the chair laughter)... and I'm a psychiatrist!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

What kind of research is done in a general surgery residency and what should someone focus in if they want to land a peds fellowship?

You should probably break this out into a separate thread, but if you have a good pediatric surgery lab that produces papers at your training program, that's the lab I'd use. If you don't, then the most productive surgical lab would be the next best choice. If you don't have a good lab present, consideration for something like the NIH would be good.

 

[Apollyon]

No no no. You ruined the joke.

The correct version by Levant is this:

"Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm a schizophrenic,
And so am I."

This was quoted in one of my all time favorite movies, What About Bob
(it's fall off the chair laughter)... and I'm a psychiatrist!

If you note, buzzkill, I did reference Levant. You must be loads of fun at parties.

 

[The Buff OP]

You should probably break this out into a separate thread, but if you have a good pediatric surgery lab that produces papers at your training program, that's the lab I'd use. If you don't, then the most productive surgical lab would be the next best choice. If you don't have a good lab present, consideration for something like the NIH would be good.

Thanks, bud. I tend to ask similar questions (kind of lol) on someone's thread, that way I just don't make a pointless thread for a quick answer. 😉

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks, bud. I tend to ask similar questions (kind of lol) on someone's thread, that way I just don't make a pointless thread for a quick answer. 😉

1) "when do female surgeons usually have children" and "what research should I do to get into a pediatric surgery fellowship" are not similar (not even kind of);
2) those "pointless" threads are a way in which others with similar questions can more easily find your query and it also allows others to respond to it as well; some users may not have even opened this particular thread, feeling that they'd already exhausted their interest in the topic

 

[The Buff OP]

1) "when do female surgeons usually have children" and "what research should I do to get into a pediatric surgery fellowship" are not similar (not even kind of);
2) those "pointless" threads are a way in which others with similar questions can more easily find your query and it also allows others to respond to it as well; some users may not have even opened this particular thread, feeling that they'd already exhausted their interest in the topic

They were talking about peds fellowship too and GS residency research. Gosh. 😉

 

[jl lin]

It is never a good time for having kids! Specially for surgeons, both males and females.

Yes, it is doable to GET PREGNANT and have a kid anytime pre/during/post residency, but don't be a fool, that is the easy part. Being up all night with them since they are sick, having a teeth, just want you to hug them to sleep when you know you will have a long day ahead of you the next day where mistakes can cost someone their life; or missing their birthday since you got stuck in the trauma bay at last minute since a junky stabbed another junky in the heart is the hard part and try to explain that to a 2-3 year old why that is more important than being with them when they open their presents…

And for your information my wife i an angel who has been a home mom since she was pregnant with our first kid (2,5yrs) and we have a second one (6months old), we have absolutely no financial issues and so on, but this journey which has just began for us seems to be harder than we ever could have imagined.

So to the point: you should ask your self this: when can I and my partner be good parents?

I cannot speak as a surgeon, but I can as a mom. Having kids is great, but there are always challenges. Add to that what is probably the most challenging area of medical training--surgery--well, if you aren't a big fan of sleep, you're probably good. 😉
Good luck. Why wouldn't it be doable?

 

[Winged Scapula]

They were talking about peds fellowship too and GS residency research. Gosh. 😉

You deserve your own thread and you know it!

 

[The Buff OP]

You deserve your own thread and you know it!

I really do.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I really do.

Hey now… Hasn't anyone ever explained to you that there's no crying in surgery?

 

[sassilysweet]

I'm currently preggo with my first. I'm 31, finishing a prelim year & starting a cat yr 1 spot in GS next month. Due in October.
At least this way, if I miss extra time for medical issues I already have a whole prelim year to make up for it.
Possibly planning to be pregnant again during 4th yr or end of 5th before starting a real job. Or end of fellowship if going that route. Have no idea, will have to wait & see how having the one works out & what my schedule ends up being.

 

[ACSurgeon]

I'm currently preggo with my first. I'm 31, finishing a prelim year & starting a cat yr 1 spot in GS next month. Due in October.
At least this way, if I miss extra time for medical issues I already have a whole prelim year to make up for it.
Possibly planning to be pregnant again during 4th yr or end of 5th before starting a real job. Or end of fellowship if going that route. Have no idea, will have to wait & see how having the one works out & what my schedule ends up being.

You might want to check and see if the ABS will accept time from your prelim year to cover gaps during your categorical PGY-1 year, if any were to occur.

 

[epsilonprodigy]

Ditto for procreating during research year. I had my first at 20 (!) and am now a 32 y/o M4, going into surgery. I'll be getting pregnant in R3 and having my second during research year. Ridiculous distance apart, yes, but for me, the M4 thing didn't make sense financially, and I was also concerned about missing so much of toddlerhood due to residency. I know another resident who had hers during M4 and research year- both happy, well-adjusted kids. The point is, you will do what you have to do. There are better and worse times, but no ideal or impossible times.

 

[LucidSplash]

Also your chief year is probably the worst time to be pregnant.