What age do you plan to Retire from Practice?

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At what age would you like to retire from practice?

  • ASAP- I hate this job

    Votes: 14 9.9%

  • Age 50

    Votes: 18 12.8%

  • age 55

    Votes: 21 14.9%

  • age 60

    Votes: 29 20.6%

  • age 62

    Votes: 11 7.8%

  • age 63

    Votes: 4 2.8%

  • age 65

    Votes: 26 18.4%

  • age 70

    Votes: 12 8.5%

  • Beyond age 70 or until my health fails

    Votes: 8 5.7%

  • I'm going to die in the O.R. at my anesthesia machine

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • Total voters
    141
BLADEMDA

BLADEMDA

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Based upon your retirement savings plan, health and overall desire to work in anesthesia, at what age do you plan to retire and live the good life?
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My hunch is that a lot of us won't fully retire until age 62 or later but will go half time or fewer work hours. A reduction in work hours is a great way to ease into full retirement. ASA statistics show many Anesthesiologists can't handle the Call/night work after age 55 and retire early. I suspect my generation won't retire but seek better lifestyle jobs like ASCs so the nest egg keeps growing while all living expenses are covered by the income from the job at the ASC.
 
Poor health was cited by 64% of anesthesiologists retiring in their 50s, compared with a 43% rate observed among those retiring later, according to the study (Figure 1). On the other hand, subspecialists in pain management and critical care who left their practice cited loss of clinical autonomy as a major influence. In forecasting models, 30% of anesthesiologists were predicted to work past the age of 65; about 18% will work past age 70, and 10% will work at age 80 (Figure 2). Based on these results, Dr. Orkin says “interventions to retain physicians in the workforce may need to be age-specific or subspecialist-specific.” - See more at: http://www.physiciansweekly.com/anesthesiology-workforce-shortage/#sthash.dMtizcAZ.dpuf
 
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mid 50s slow down. Not sure if will be a fraction of an FTE with call or a days only job. No idea when I will hang it up completely.
 
All I talk to will retire at 62/63, when they lose certification without that last cycle of MOCA.
Personally, could retire by 40, assuming good health, will cut back at 50-55, retire 62.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Poor health was cited by 64% of anesthesiologists retiring in their 50s, compared with a 43% rate observed among those retiring later, according to the study (Figure 1). On the other hand, subspecialists in pain management and critical care who left their practice cited loss of clinical autonomy as a major influence. In forecasting models, 30% of anesthesiologists were predicted to work past the age of 65; about 18% will work past age 70, and 10% will work at age 80 (Figure 2). Based on these results, Dr. Orkin says “interventions to retain physicians in the workforce may need to be age-specific or subspecialist-specific.” - See more at: http://www.physiciansweekly.com/anesthesiology-workforce-shortage/#sthash.dMtizcAZ.dpuf
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Jiminy cricket, I'm sorry, but I don't care what kind of rokk$tar anesthesiologist you were back in the day, there's no way I'm letting an 80-yr old take care of me. Not a surgeon or an internist or anything else for that matter. Psych maybe?

I hope that by "work" they mean faculty/advisory positions, not actual clinical duties. Most places I know have age limits anyway.
 
pgg said:
That should've been a poll option. 🙂

As of today, my plan is to go part time in my mid-late 50s.
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I realize many of us will cut back work when we reach 55-60. My plan is exactly that with .75 FTE until age 63 then .5 FTE until my health starts becoming an issue or I reach age 70.

From a financial perspective I should be able to fully retire by age 62 if my health becomes an issue.
 
My current plan is 60-65. I can cut back to 80% without any problem. I actually might do that sooner than I expected as my wife's career is going very well. If I can cut back to 60%, I might work a few more years.
I'm not worried about having enough money. It's amazing how things like not divorcing and making smart money choices pay off...
 
WholeLottaGame7 said:
Jiminy cricket, I'm sorry, but I don't care what kind of rokk$tar anesthesiologist you were back in the day, there's no way I'm letting an 80-yr old take care of me. Not a surgeon or an internist or anything else for that matter. Psych maybe?

I hope that by "work" they mean faculty/advisory positions, not actual clinical duties. Most places I know have age limits anyway.
Click to expand...

When I was in HI, there was an 81 y/o neurologist, and a 95 - yes, 95 - year old heme/onc guy. When I was a resident, there was a heme/onc guy at Duke that still took q4 call, that one of my colleagues of mine in my first job in residency said was old when he was there, and my colleague was, literally, a generation before me.
 
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I think anesthesiologists (and CRNAs) start to lose their "game" after age 60. I've seen this too many times to discount. It's a lot like the other corollaries in the airline industry. Commercial pilots are required by the FAA to retire at age 60. Period. No exceptions.

I wouldn't mandate this, of course, for our field. But I have had to keep my eye on some of the more senior grayhairs. Some are still excellent. Some make some questionable decisions.

We had a CRNA that worked until after 70. I used to call her "mother goose" because the number of esophageal intubations she performed on a routine basis. Nice as pie. Listened. Took direction well. But was off her game. We eventually had to go the "performance issues" route to coax her to retire. Good forbid we let her go otherwise. Age discrimination lawsuits are nasty.
 
Probably some skill decline at age 60-62 but not enough to mandate retirement. Although skills do decline some after 60 clinical judgment and experience remain intact. Most older Anesthesiologists don't have an ego and are fairly conservative in everything they do. When you combine their experience, conservative approach and lack of ego you get a safe practitioner of the field.
 
FWIW, I underwent a surgery two weeks ago and the anesthesiologist that put to sleep was 70 years old. He's healthy as horse. I can see him practicing another 10 years.
 
Interesting post you have started, Blade. My ideal situation would be to scale back to 80% by age 55 and take no call/60% by age 60. Provided my health holds up I hope to work until age 65. For me it may also depend on several other factors: 1. How well my 401K and other investments perform 2. How many kids my wife and I decide to have (i.e. more college tuition payments) 3. Whether we decide to send our kid(s) to private school 4. Whether we decide to move to a more expensive location down the road (e.g. California or the northeast) where our mortgage will be substantially higher.
 
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My goal is to go part time (50%) at 50: like sevo i think the years i can enjoy now between 30 and 50 are very diferent from the ones after 60. I'd rather live well now than have a boatload of cash when retire and come to realize i'm to old to spend that much dough. On the other hand i definately working for my kids future (or else i'd be part time already).
Going part time is a good way to enjoy a lot of free time while keeping a foot in the game if i eventually need to work longer. I actually wouldn't mind working 50 or 25% into my seventies if that means i was able to enjoy time off earlier in life.
My plan : save as much as my wife allows me and invest in real estate for an inflation ajusted cash flow in retirement.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Probably some skill decline at age 60-62 but not enough to mandate retirement. Although skills do decline some after 60 clinical judgment and experience remain intact. Most older Anesthesiologists don't have an ego and are fairly conservative in everything they do. When you combine their experience, conservative approach and lack of ego you get a safe practitioner of the field.
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65 is my number for 100% retirement...I can see myself cutting back to 70-80% years before then...if all this comes true I'll consider myself lucky!
 
I answered based on the idea of complete retirement from the field. I hope to die at my anesthesia machine about six months before my last scheduled MOCA exam.

As far as scaling back... well I didn't start until about 40 so I can't scale back at as young of an age as some. I would guess that I retire from the heart team and stop taking call at 65ish. I might cut back to 80% at 50-60 then 50% at 65-70 though. Kind of depends on whether my kids (9 and 5) decide to go to some expensive college or not.

Of course, I am not naive enough to think that I will definitely live that long so I am preparing financially for a much shorter career.

- pod
 
periopdoc said:
I answered based on the idea of complete retirement from the field. I hope to die at my anesthesia machine about six months before my last scheduled MOCA exam.

As far as scaling back... well I didn't start until about 40 so I can't scale back at as young of an age as some. I would guess that I retire from the heart team and stop taking call at 65ish. I might cut back to 80% at 50-60 then 50% at 65-70 though. Kind of depends on whether my kids (9 and 5) decide to go to some expensive college or not.

Of course, I am not naive enough to think that I will definitely live that long so I am preparing financially for a much shorter career.

- pod
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I also consider timing retirement around avoiding another round of MOCA. You know you have a great recert when people consider retiring a few years earlier than they otherwise would to avoid the recert fleecing.
 
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I am not totally sure. At this point it is no longer a money issue. It is more about if I still like it. In an ideal world I will wake up one day and no longer be happy with what I am doing and look to slow down into a Asc, GI center or maybe offer my services to an academic group as someone who can show residents how anesthesia is done outside of the ivory tower. I think that day will come in my mid
To late 50's. Blaz
 
Like I said in the other thread, I'm planning to be able to afford to retire at age 50. I don't envision actually retiring at that age, though. As several people suggested, I'd consider moving to part-time clinical work or teaching if the full time clinical schedule was getting to be too much.

Actually, one of the "retirement jobs" I've considered doing is becoming a biomedical ethicist. The guy who led my ethics small group in med school had done this. He was a surgeon, who, when he stopped operating, got an MS in bioethics, then worked M-F, 9AM-5PM as a hospital ethicist doing consults, teaching, etc. Seemed like a pretty cool job for a "retired" clinician, and he had some great real-world stories to tell.
 
I will be 41 at the end if residency. Large student loan burden. I'll need to figure out how to deal with that and maximize my retirement plan... I could do that in 20 years, right?

I wish I knew more about investing :/
 
Random Resident said:
I will be 41 at the end if residency. Large student loan burden. I'll need to figure out how to deal with that and maximize my retirement plan... I could do that in 20 years, right?

I wish I knew more about investing :/
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Here's everything you need to know about investing, most of which you probably know but anyway:
1) Diversify- stocks (cap, industry, nation) + some bonds
2)Rebalance every 3-6 mo (once your ongoing investment is no longer a large percentage of your total)
3) you can't pick stocks so don't try
4) don't pay someone to pick stocks for you, they can't do it either
5) if you can save after maxing out your 401k, do a free Roth conversion

The main thing is rebalancing. Human nature leads us to buy high sell low. Rebalancing helps you buy low and sell high more frequently.

Good luck.
 
Necrobump de jour. Was wondering if anyone's philosophy on retirement age from hands-on clinical practice had changed since the thread's last post four years ago (especially in light of the economic principles espoused by the current occupant of the White House)?
 
My wife and I (she’s also a physician) are planning to retire when the last kid is out of the house for college (age 52). We don’t have a particular number target - we will retire with whatever we have accumulated to that point and make it work. On pace for 7-8mm net worth at that age (assuming 6% market return). If our kids end up going to med/law school, we may work an extra year or 2 part time to pay for that if the 529s are depleted. I really don’t want them to have the same experience we had of 300-400k each in med school loans (god only knows how much med school will cost in 20 years).

Save diligently, pay down debt quickly, and don’t grow your lifestyle.
 
okayplayer said:
My wife and I (she’s also a physician) are planning to retire when the last kid is out of the house for college (age 52). We don’t have a particular number target - we will retire with whatever we have accumulated to that point and make it work. On pace for 7-8mm net worth at that age (assuming 6% market return). If our kids end up going to med/law school, we may work an extra year or 2 part time to pay for that if the 529s are depleted. I really don’t want them to have the same experience we had of 300-400k each in med school loans (god only knows how much med school will cost in 20 years).

Save diligently, pay down debt quickly, and don’t grow your lifestyle.
Click to expand...

Will you keep your license, work some locums etc?

I think I’ll be able to afford to retire by 52 if markets do at least mediocre. But I would be anxious giving up my license entirely. Nice to know I could go back to work if necessary.
 
Monty Python said:
Necrobump de jour. Was wondering if anyone's philosophy on retirement age from hands-on clinical practice had changed since the thread's last post four years ago (especially in light of the economic principles espoused by the current occupant of the White House)?
Click to expand...

pgg said:
As of today, my plan is to go part time in my mid-late 50s.
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I have sort of revised my plan, now expect to go part time in my early 50s.

Mainly because the math favors it. The last 4 years have been good ones. Last kid will be out of college when I'm 49. Still enjoy the job. Unless I acquire some unforseen extremely expensive hobby, just don't anticipate a need to keep going full time.
 
I'd like to transition to part time at some point between 50-55 and then maybe work part time until 60 or 62 depending on exact needs/wants.
 
I selected 65, but probably 66 my health permitting. I hope to save around 80k per year in various 40x(yz) programs. That combined with a pension, and some traditional saving or small investment properties should land me what I need around my early sixties.
 
Mman said:
I'd like to transition to part time at some point between 50-55 and then maybe work part time until 60 or 62 depending on exact needs/wants.
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This is exactly my plan. It’s fun to play around with a few retirement calculators. I use firecalc: FIRECalc: A different kind of retirement calculator

I do think it’s very important to monitor your spending and have a general idea of how much you need to comfortably retire.
 
As opposed to when will you rrtire, what would you do when you retire? I go batsh1t crazy with a few days off. I have plenty of hobbies (jusy simple, cheap things like a game of football with my mates etc)but for some word reason don't feel like doing any of them when I'm off work.

But when I'm in work, all I want to do is my hobbies!! Is that wierd?
 
caligas said:
Will you keep your license, work some locums etc?

I think I’ll be able to afford to retire by 52 if markets do at least mediocre. But I would be anxious giving up my license entirely. Nice to know I could go back to work if necessary.
Click to expand...

I am on the same general path I was 4 years ago, but a few years ahead due to good markets. I am pretty sure most of those gains will be dropped with a bit of reversion to the mean for returns, but it hasn’t been bad.

I will likely be transitioning to part time work sooner (age 40?) and working a bit longer instead of my plan at that time. I had a talk with my wife where my current calculations had me quitting when my kids were going to college (age 51) and I would rather be home for them when they are around. I hope to remain with license through age 62, doing some amount of work.

None of this is because I don’t like my job, it is more that I like not doing my job better.
 
WholeLottaGame7 said:
Jiminy cricket, I'm sorry, but I don't care what kind of rokk$tar anesthesiologist you were back in the day, there's no way I'm letting an 80-yr old take care of me. Not a surgeon or an internist or anything else for that matter. Psych maybe?

I hope that by "work" they mean faculty/advisory positions, not actual clinical duties. Most places I know have age limits anyway.
Click to expand...

Can I just say, your profile pic is the face I made when I read that hahah
 
Newtwo said:
As opposed to when will you rrtire, what would you do when you retire? I go batsh1t crazy with a few days off. I have plenty of hobbies (jusy simple, cheap things like a game of football with my mates etc)but for some word reason don't feel like doing any of them when I'm off work.

But when I'm in work, all I want to do is my hobbies!! Is that wierd?
Click to expand...
Not at all weird. It’s kind of like when I’m craving a snack that i don’t have, but once I have a lot of it around me, I don’t want/eat it as much.
 
Depends on how many kids we have, but my wife and I are committed to paying ourselves first, not spending lavishly, and eventually moving to a low cost area. By the time the last kid is out of college I'm hoping to change to just part-time and keep that up for as long as I feel able. I would hate to be that doc that people people talk about as either slowing down, or having declining clinical judgement and needing to retire soon.
 
As long as I am having fun or enjoy what I'm doing I'll probably keep on doing it. But, I plan to drop to maybe 3x8hrs when I'm 60 or so.

But, I also want to get to FU levels of savings ASAP so that I don't feel obligated to work (and overall probably will make work more fun as I'll have some leverage.)
 
Newtwo said:
As opposed to when will you rrtire, what would you do when you retire? I go batsh1t crazy with a few days off. I have plenty of hobbies (jusy simple, cheap things like a game of football with my mates etc)but for some word reason don't feel like doing any of them when I'm off work.

But when I'm in work, all I want to do is my hobbies!! Is that wierd?
Click to expand...
My plan is to open a hunting shop that serves coffee. I'll sit around and chew the fat with the other hunters, talk about hunting, archery, and generally BS.
 
okayplayer said:
My wife and I (she’s also a physician) are planning to retire when the last kid is out of the house for college (age 52). We don’t have a particular number target - we will retire with whatever we have accumulated to that point and make it work. On pace for 7-8mm net worth at that age (assuming 6% market return). If our kids end up going to med/law school, we may work an extra year or 2 part time to pay for that if the 529s are depleted. I really don’t want them to have the same experience we had of 300-400k each in med school loans (god only knows how much med school will cost in 20 years).

Save diligently, pay down debt quickly, and don’t grow your lifestyle.
Click to expand...
Assuming a 22y career and a 7M goal that's 300k savings per year not counting student loans etc which is a very high number.
I guess it helps a lot to have a 2 physician income.
 
dhb said:
Assuming a 22y career and a 7M goal that's 300k savings per year not counting student loans etc which is a very high number.
I guess it helps a lot to have a 2 physician income.
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22 years @ $300K per year with a 6% return gives you over $13M, not $7M. I think you forgot to compound interest on top of the amount saved. You "only" need to save about $160K per year for 22 years to get $7M if you earn 6% return.

(and yes if we want to dig deep into the math you have to discuss real vs nominal and tax treatments of various savings vehicles, etc)
 
Mman said:
22 years @ $300K per year with a 6% return gives you over $13M, not $7M. I think you forgot to compound interest on top of the amount saved. You "only" need to save about $160K per year for 22 years to get $7M if you earn 6% return.

(and yes if we want to dig deep into the math you have to discuss real vs nominal and tax treatments of various savings vehicles, etc)
Click to expand...

Also, few couples need $7mil in today’s dollars to retire. That’s about $200k/yr spending assuming only a 3% withdrawal rate and not including SS.
 
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Mman said:
22 years @ $300K per year with a 6% return gives you over $13M, not $7M. I think you forgot to compound interest on top of the amount saved. You "only" need to save about $160K per year for 22 years to get $7M if you earn 6% return.

(and yes if we want to dig deep into the math you have to discuss real vs nominal and tax treatments of various savings vehicles, etc)
Click to expand...
Has your real return averaged 6% over the years?
 
dhb said:
Has your real return averaged 6% over the years?
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it'd be hard to find someone that hasn't considering the massive run over the last 9 years. I mean it's closer to 15% for me personally. Now I know that won't last forever, but it'd also be foolish to assume 0% real return over 22 years. 6% is basically a historical long term average so it's worth using for calculations. You can be a bit more pessimistic and say maybe 4% or 5% or whatever you want if you care to dive into the details.
 
Mman said:
it'd be hard to find someone that hasn't considering the massive run over the last 9 years.
Click to expand...

Since January of 1986, the research firm DALBAR has been compiling data measuring how the average investor performs over time. The results are pretty harrowing, and they might surprise you.

Over long stretches of time, the average investor is widely underperforming. The table below underscores the magnitude of the underperformance for equity investors and fixed income investors alike:

For Equity Investors:

Investment Time Period Average Equity Investor S&P 500
30-year period 3.66% 10.35%
20-year period 4.67% 8.91%
10-year period 4.23% 7.31%



For Fixed Income Investors:

Investment Time Period Average Fixed Income Investor Barclays Aggregate Bond Index
30-year period 0.59% 6.73%
20-year period 0.51% 5.34%
10-year period 0.39% 4.51%
The figures listed above look at time periods fall within the range of January 1, 1986, to December 31, 2015. That means the study includes the crash of 1987 and the big bear markets of 2000 and 2008, but also the fierce bull market of the 1990’s. The inclusion of these very significant market cycles and market swings perhaps best explain why the average investor is underperforming so badly: there are too many temptations to try to time the market.
 
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