What are my chances?

[mmcaule]

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I'm a third-year physiology and psychology student at one of Canada's best universities (UWO); I have a 3.96 cGPA (my lowest mark is 84%, a 3.7) and I expect at least a 3.90 in third-year (and about the same in fourth-year); I will have research experience by the time I graduate, but I have absolutely no volunteer experience and I don't plan on writing the MCAT (grad school, and hence the GRE, is my main priority). OK - so no volunteer experience, but high average (plus I am confident in my writing ability and interview ability), what are my odds of getting into a medical school like SABA, which I notice only "recommends" writing the MCAT? Is it even worth my time applying or am I more or less a shoe-in (simply because well, let's face it, Caribbean med schools have a reputation for easy entry)? Essentially what I am asking is is a high average (especially for Caribbean med schools) enough to outweigh a complete absence of volunteer experience?

I am starting to realize that maybe research isn't my thing, so I am starting to explore some alternatives - as a person who loves physiology, med school is the most obvious. I do like helping people, but volunteering isn't something I passionately want to do. My goal throughout university was to get into grad school, so I didn't worry about volunteering. I am worried that if I start volunteering now, I will look exactly how I truly am: a faker (that is, only volunteering so I can get into med school). In reality, it's the diagnostic element of medicine that interests me most, whereas helping people is secondary.

Thanks in advance.

 

[oldpro]

I'm a third-year physiology and psychology student at one of Canada's best universities (UWO); I have a 3.96 cGPA (my lowest mark is 84%, a 3.7) and I expect at least a 3.90 in third-year (and about the same in fourth-year); I will have research experience by the time I graduate, but I have absolutely no volunteer experience and I don't plan on writing the MCAT (grad school, and hence the GRE, is my main priority). OK - so no volunteer experience, but high average (plus I am confident in my writing ability and interview ability), what are my odds of getting into a medical school like SABA, which I notice only "recommends" writing the MCAT? Is it even worth my time applying or am I more or less a shoe-in (simply because well, let's face it, Caribbean med schools have a reputation for easy entry)?

You are sadly mistaken, the Big 4 are harder to get into then the rest and you must be reading too much from the premeds in Allo to believe this myth.

You are right SABA may consider you but know I have known plenty turned down with 3.5 and 3.6 who wrote an MCAT above a 22, so they had decent GPA and an MCAT written.

Without writting one you are an unknown for the MCAT score

You could be 35, 30 20 or 10 for all we know on the MCAT.

You would be better off writting it and getting a 26 or better , I guess I question you desire when you make it so clear taking the MCAT is not going to happen, with a 3.9 gpa you post why are you so scared? You should be able to get a high MCAT ( maybe you cannot?)

USMLE is 100x harder what will you do then?

I do not think you are a "Shoe in" for SABA, In fact if they accept you you are lucky.

NO OFFENSE meant but:
Students like you do come off as a little arrogant, I have this great GPA but do not want to do what is required and find a short cut "Because I'm so great" .........I'm a "Shoe in" gives me this feeling.

(If you noticed no one else had the guts to tell you this yet, people who post a lot times want people to tell them they are right and validation, in this case I cannot)


Good Luck

 

[mmcaule]

I understand your anger.

You do not know my situation, nor do I expect you to, and I denounced your place of education - doing so I can understand leads to rash comments. Why am I not taking the MCAT? Well, graduate school has been my goal since I first knew it existed. I love the idea that as a researcher I will be at the cutting-edge, but I am beginning to realize the truth of research: the ultimate goal is awesome, but the day-to-day activities seem rather simple and mundane. However, grad school has been my goal for 5+ years now (it really has been the only career/education goal I have strived for), so it is hard to give up on. Is it feasible for me to study for the GRE, have a summer job (40+ hours a week), and study for the MCAT (with the intent of doing well - I am a perfectionist), which is really just my "alternative"? Should I also study for the GMAT, because I have always had a knack for business? To be realistic, I will invest time in my primary goal: doing well on the GRE. If being a doctor was my goal, I would study my ass for the USMLE (in the same way I studied my ass for my all my undergraduate exams).

Now, if, during my fourth year research project, I realize research isn't for me, then med school will jump up to my number 1. I want you to know that I think I would make an awesome doctor (and I think I would enjoy being a doctor), but I think I would more enjoy being a researcher (at the moment, at least). As a med student, I am sure you are familiar with the whole "if I don't make it into med school, I will become a high school teacher" bit. (Background: teacher's colleges in my area require a 3.5 GPA and thus are probably harder to get into than most Caribbean medical schools). At this point I can't tell whether you are wearing rose-coloured glasses, but the reality is most students consider having to apply to a Caribbean medical school an insult (harsh, but true). If I truly was arrogant, the Caribbean would be out of the question for me. However, if I actually want to be a doctor, then I will do anything to be one.

I wanted an honest answer and you gave me your honest answer, so I appreciate that (I didn't expect all replies to be optimistic). However, how could I possibly expect honest answers if I wasn't honest about myself. I am proud of my marks, but I am not proud of my lack of volunteer experience. Just like people with an impressive volunteer record but poor marks wonder whether their volunteering will outweigh their marks, so too do I wonder whether my marks will outweigh my poor volunteering record. Do you consider people who claim they have 1000 hours of volunteer experience arrogant? Regardless, I apologize for any confusion or insult my first post might have incurred.

I hope others still continue to voice their opinion. Do you think I should share my GRE scores if I do apply for medical schools that suggest the MCAT? Ultimately the MCAT score serves to standardize applicants from different schools, but so to does the GRE.

Thanks in advance.

 

[oldpro]

I understand your anger.

I am beginning to realize the truth of research: the ultimate goal is awesome, but the day-to-day activities seem rather simple and mundane. However, grad school has been my goal for 5+ years now (it really has been the only career/education goal I have strived for),

so you strived to be professional student in a sense? You may not really know what you want then.

Is it feasible for me to study for the GRE, have a summer job (40+ hours a week), and study for the MCAT (with the intent of doing well - I am a perfectionist),

My friend we all make sacrifices in life to get where are or we stagnate at one point, you may have to give up something to get to medical school or forget medical school.

which is really just my "alternative"? Should I also study for the GMAT, because I have always had a knack for business? To be realistic, I will invest time in my primary goal: doing well on the GRE.

As I said, teacher, buisness, researcher, Doctor, thats four different jobs there is there a 5th in there? My point is 18 years ago I graduated from RN school I wanted to be a Nurse, I was then after about 12 years I grew and understood that I wanted to be a Doctor and 4 years later I was in Medical school, I never waivered between so many different Job ideas there were none and are none just the final goal of being a Physician. FOcus is the key you have to ask yourself do you have the focus? I do not see it with what you write.

Now, if, during my fourth year research project, I realize research isn't for me, then med school will jump up to my number 1. I want you to know that I think I would make an awesome doctor (and I think I would enjoy being a doctor), but I think I would more enjoy being a researcher (at the moment, at least). . At this point I can't tell whether you are wearing rose-coloured glasses, but the reality is most students consider having to apply to a Caribbean medical school an insult (harsh, but true). If I truly was arrogant, the Caribbean would be out of the question for me. However, if I actually want to be a doctor, then I will do anything to be one.

I think you missed my point, it was that you want to be accepted without an MCAT, it is not easy as you think, that is my point, yes the Caribbean schools are about Money but the Big 4 have admission standards or they loose California, something none of them want. Out of the 4 Saba is the only one who may consider you for admission, then its on to the others ( like the one I attend) then yes all you need to do is have a pulse so to say, not true for the Big 4 , why ? Because they have a better system, better schools and proven track records along with California

I hope others still continue to voice their opinion. Do you think I should share my GRE scores if I do apply for medical schools that suggest the MCAT? Ultimately the MCAT score serves to standardize applicants from different schools, but so to does the GRE.

Thanks in advance.

GRE scores mean nothing to the Medical Schools, ACT scores nothing

MCAT yes
GPA's yes
Shadowing
VOlunteering
Research
Patient Contact
LORs
Yes Yes Yes and Yes

I'm giving you the best advice I can

Look my point has been, why should any school admit you (Any of the good ones) if you do not care about being a Doctor enough to take the right steps to become a good one? The MCAT may be a useless test IMHO but it is needed to get into a Good school. You have to decide that you want to become a Doctor and make it #1 if not you will never become a Doctor

There's desire then there's ability and action. You have Ability, now do you really desire it and willing to take action?

Good Luck

 

[mmcaule]

You may not really know what you want then. My friend we all make sacrifices in life to get where are or we stagnate at one point, you may have to give up something to get to medical school or forget medical school.

That is why I am applying to the Caribbean (I am sacrificing the considerably easier time I would have if I just stuck in a Canadian or American grad school) - I will not be the first to be accepted into Saba without the MCAT, as I have noticed as I explore the site more and more.

As I said, teacher, buisness, researcher, Doctor, thats four different jobs there is there a 5th in there?

I never said I wanted to be a teacher; and I only brought up the whole business thing to make a point: if you want to do well on a standardized test, given that you only have a limited amount of time, you have to go for just one. At the moment, I am 55% for researcher (the only reason I say so high is because it has been my plan for so long); 35% for doctor; 10% waiting for some unknown career to pop up - but I think I have had this misconception of research that might steer me away from it, so I am considering my second choice. Once again, I would love to be a doctor; I just think (*think* being the keyword) I would rather be a researcher, hence I am currently pursuing the researcher pathway. What is so hard to understand?

I think you missed my point, it was that you want to be accepted without an MCAT, it is not easy as you think, that is my point, yes the Caribbean schools are about Money but the Big 4 have admission standards or they loose California, something none of them want. Out of the 4 Saba is the only one who may consider you for admission, then its on to the others ( like the one I attend) then yes all you need to do is have a pulse so to say, not true for the Big 4 , why ? Because they have a better system, better schools and proven track records along with California

I realize Saba is the only one of the big 4 that I can possibly get accepted to. I know others (from this forum and others) with lower GPAs got in, but I don't know if they were saints (amazing volunteer records) or not. That is what I am wondering.

There's desire then there's ability and action. You have Ability, now do you really desire it and willing to take action?

I certainly desire it; it is a matter of whether I desire it more than research or not. If I decide I don't like research (keep in mind I still have a year and a half of undergrad left) then, yes, I will desire medicine more than anything else.

Thanks for the insight.

EDIT: and from a business point-of-view, a medical school (especially Caribbean ones) is going to value ability over desire. The more and more students they entice (by having a proven track record, i.e. lots of students passing the USMLE), the more and more they can ask for tuition.

 

[MDPWR]

Make up your mind 1st of what do you wan't to be and get it done. If you like to hear a real life story then this might help you. In the words of the Orthopod at work "as long as the anesthesiologist took the same USMLES as me and is board certified in his respected feild, and know whats is he doing I'm fine with him" Chuckles in the OR and "right Dr K????" who is our anesthesiologist graduated from the Caribbean. Show respect to people in order to get one.


You really seems confused. Doctor, researcher, may be a teacher what r yaa talking about dude. No more comments on this from me.

Good luck to you anyways.

 

[oldpro]

Times are changing and its getting harder to get accepted but you have to apply anyway and if Saba wants you then all this is MOOT

Being older then you with more life experience I'm trying to make you look at all the possibilities

One last comment, without an MCAT you cannot transfer to a US school if you want to, all transfers are to have the same qualifications as the current students (All 4 year MD students in the US have MCATs only exception are 6 and 7 year but thats a different program)

Good Luck

 

[mmcaule]

Why have I wanted to be a researcher? 1) I love solving puzzling problems, 2) I love discussing my passions (medical science) with others, 3) I want to do something that makes a difference for a lot of people (e.g. be part of curing a disease), 4) I like the advancement - every day there is something new because you constantly have new information with new discoveries, 5) I love to learn. There are other reasons, but those are my top 5.

All those can be said for being a doctor as well, so why haven’t I always considered being a doctor? Well, because of a major misconception really. I am not confident with my precise movements under pressure (don’t get me wrong, my cognitive abilities are probably better under pressure) - that is, I don’t think I would be great at doing surgeries. It was my thinking that all specialties and all medical students are expected to do surgery. Only recently have I discussed this with friends and my family doc to realize that I am mistaking.

What has really pushed me towards research is that I will be making a difference (my interests are in applied research), I am a curious-minded person, and I will be furthering the knowledge required to help lots of people; however, I am starting to realize (I haven’t realized until now because a) I never really needed to think about what I would actually be doing as a researcher - now that I am getting to the point where I am applying for grad/professional school, I have to consider things like that and b) friends are starting to become involved in research) that the day-to-day activities of a researcher don’t seem to interest me. On the other hand, I do know the day-to-day activities of doctors because, well, I’m human and thus have spent enough time as the subject of doctors and I have seen countless shows on what doctors do - so I know enough to say I would like to be a doctor.

Essentially, I am on a teeter-totter where being a doctor is going up in my mind, while being a researcher is going down - I don’t think it will be too long before I consider being a doctor to be above being a researcher. It is just difficult to give up on something you have always accepted for a long time, so I want to wait until I am actually doing research (during my fourth year research project) before I finally either go for it or give up on it. At this point in my university career I don’t know many people who are completely confident of what they want to do as a career; I am not the only one "confused".

If I decide I’d rather do medicine than research, then I will be just like you when you decided to go for medicine over nursing (and, as 18 years suggests, you didn’t make your decision to change overnight either). Do you question your desire to be a doctor because you were once a nurse?

That being said, I have exhausted all my options. I will know for sure whether I want to go into research or medicine a month or so into fourth year (when I will be doing my honours research project), but by that point I will not have written the MCAT nor will I have an impressive volunteer record, and I will not have time do either by application deadline time. I could stay back and do another year of undergrad while volunteering my ass off and studying for the MCAT, but that will only further my debt. I could go ahead and do a year of grad school also while studying for the MCAT and volunteering, but then I will be very busy and doing something I wouldn’t enjoy. Or I could take a year off and get a job while studying for the MCAT and volunteering - this doesn’t seem so bad, but then if I don’t do so hot on the MCAT and/or I’m looked down upon because I postponed volunteering until later on, I’ll be back at square one. Plus, 10 more years of education after undergrad is enough for me: I want to get it done as soon as possible. I realize I will be looked down upon by American or Canadian employers for having gone to a Caribbean medical school and I know what that means: study like mad for the USMLEs. I like a challenge and I don’t plan on going for one of the more competitive residencies, so I think I can handle it.

Input from anyone else is appreciated.

 

[AllIn4Life]

based on your GPA and what you have said about yourself regarding ur background...id say just take the MCAT without studying cuzz ur likely to score 20+ on a first try and that will be good enough for the good Carib schools and do a lil volunteering on the side for like 50 hours and ull be good to go in very little time

Why have I wanted to be a researcher? 1) I love solving puzzling problems, 2) I love discussing my passions (medical science) with others, 3) I want to do something that makes a difference for a lot of people (e.g. be part of curing a disease), 4) I like the advancement - every day there is something new because you constantly have new information with new discoveries, 5) I love to learn. There are other reasons, but those are my top 5.

All those can be said for being a doctor as well, so why haven’t I always considered being a doctor? Well, because of a major misconception really. I am not confident with my precise movements under pressure (don’t get me wrong, my cognitive abilities are probably better under pressure) - that is, I don’t think I would be great at doing surgeries. It was my thinking that all specialties and all medical students are expected to do surgery. Only recently have I discussed this with friends and my family doc to realize that I am mistaking.

What has really pushed me towards research is that I will be making a difference (my interests are in applied research), I am a curious-minded person, and I will be furthering the knowledge required to help lots of people; however, I am starting to realize (I haven’t realized until now because a) I never really needed to think about what I would actually be doing as a researcher - now that I am getting to the point where I am applying for grad/professional school, I have to consider things like that and b) friends are starting to become involved in research) that the day-to-day activities of a researcher don’t seem to interest me. On the other hand, I do know the day-to-day activities of doctors because, well, I’m human and thus have spent enough time as the subject of doctors and I have seen countless shows on what doctors do - so I know enough to say I would like to be a doctor.

Essentially, I am on a teeter-totter where being a doctor is going up in my mind, while being a researcher is going down - I don’t think it will be too long before I consider being a doctor to be above being a researcher. It is just difficult to give up on something you have always accepted for a long time, so I want to wait until I am actually doing research (during my fourth year research project) before I finally either go for it or give up on it. At this point in my university career I don’t know many people who are completely confident of what they want to do as a career; I am not the only one "confused".

If I decide I’d rather do medicine than research, then I will be just like you when you decided to go for medicine over nursing (and, as 18 years suggests, you didn’t make your decision to change overnight either). Do you question your desire to be a doctor because you were once a nurse?

That being said, I have exhausted all my options. I will know for sure whether I want to go into research or medicine a month or so into fourth year (when I will be doing my honours research project), but by that point I will not have written the MCAT nor will I have an impressive volunteer record, and I will not have time do either by application deadline time. I could stay back and do another year of undergrad while volunteering my ass off and studying for the MCAT, but that will only further my debt. I could go ahead and do a year of grad school also while studying for the MCAT and volunteering, but then I will be very busy and doing something I wouldn’t enjoy. Or I could take a year off and get a job while studying for the MCAT and volunteering - this doesn’t seem so bad, but then if I don’t do so hot on the MCAT and/or I’m looked down upon because I postponed volunteering until later on, I’ll be back at square one. Plus, 10 more years of education after undergrad is enough for me: I want to get it done as soon as possible. I realize I will be looked down upon by American or Canadian employers for having gone to a Caribbean medical school and I know what that means: study like mad for the USMLEs. I like a challenge and I don’t plan on going for one of the more competitive residencies, so I think I can handle it.

Input from anyone else is appreciated.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I'm a third-year physiology and psychology student at one of Canada's best universities (UWO); I have a 3.96 cGPA (my lowest mark is 84%, a 3.7) and I expect at least a 3.90 in third-year (and about the same in fourth-year); I will have research experience by the time I graduate, but I have absolutely no volunteer experience and I don't plan on writing the MCAT (grad school, and hence the GRE, is my main priority). OK - so no volunteer experience, but high average (plus I am confident in my writing ability and interview ability), what are my odds of getting into a medical school like SABA, which I notice only "recommends" writing the MCAT? Is it even worth my time applying or am I more or less a shoe-in (simply because well, let's face it, Caribbean med schools have a reputation for easy entry)? Essentially what I am asking is is a high average (especially for Caribbean med schools) enough to outweigh a complete absence of volunteer experience?

I am starting to realize that maybe research isn't my thing, so I am starting to explore some alternatives - as a person who loves physiology, med school is the most obvious. I do like helping people, but volunteering isn't something I passionately want to do. My goal throughout university was to get into grad school, so I didn't worry about volunteering. I am worried that if I start volunteering now, I will look exactly how I truly am: a faker (that is, only volunteering so I can get into med school). In reality, it's the diagnostic element of medicine that interests me most, whereas helping people is secondary.

Thanks in advance.

You have to be kidding people on this board, if you have that type of GPA you should have no issue taking the MCAT.

 

[oldpro]

On the other hand, I do know the day-to-day activities of doctors because, well, I’m human and thus have spent enough time as the subject of doctors and I have seen countless shows on what doctors do - so I know enough to say I would like to be a doctor.

What shows? House MD? Documentaries? You know you do not do research without hands on and doing the research, you can't just see some show and come up with the new breakthrough, same for Shadowing, hands on, I have been in the trenches as a Nurse and now as a medical student working with the doctors, I can tell you the perspectives are way different, I was surprised, there are wiser and more experienced people then us know and it is why Shadowing is important, But you go on and believe what you will.😱

Essentially, I am on a teeter-totter where being a doctor is going up in my mind, while being a researcher is going down - I don’t think it will be too long before I consider being a doctor to be above being a researcher. It is just difficult to give up on something you have always accepted for a long time, so I want to wait until I am actually doing research (during my fourth year research project) before I finally either go for it or give up on it. At this point in my university career I don’t know many people who are completely confident of what they want to do as a career; I am not the only one "confused".

I was never confused I was happy for about 12 years as a Nurse but felt I wanted to take care of my patients as an MD so I sought higher education and the MD route. I never thought of 2 or three different jobs at once, but that is me.

I could stay back and do another year of undergrad while volunteering my ass off and studying for the MCAT, but that will only further my debt. I could go ahead and do a year of grad school also while studying for the MCAT and volunteering, but then I will be very busy and doing something I wouldn’t enjoy. Or I could take a year off and get a job while studying for the MCAT and volunteering - this doesn’t seem so bad, but then if I don’t do so hot on the MCAT and/or I’m looked down upon because I postponed volunteering until later on, I’ll be back at square one. Plus, 10 more years of education after undergrad is enough for me: I want to get it done as soon as possible. I realize I will be looked down upon by American or Canadian employers for having gone to a Caribbean medical school and I know what that means: study like mad for the USMLEs. I like a challenge and I don’t plan on going for one of the more competitive residencies, so I think I can handle it.

Your best option for your best future is to study and take the MCAT, you would not be looked down upon for volunteering "Late" only for not volunteering. Why would you think anyone likes the MCAT? No one does.
If you like a challange then take the MCAT like you should.

You have a chance at a great future and you are throwing it away. Some of us wish we had the choices you have.

Go ahead and do what you will, if you fail its your fault.

Yes maybe someone else can cheer you on I guess I'm too old and too much like a Dad ( I have 3 children oldest in college) to not give you the best advice I can and what makes good sense.

Good Luck and have a good life!😎

 

[oldpro]

You have to be kidding people on this board, if you have that type of GPA you should have no issue taking the MCAT.

Joe there are those in the Medical world who think every Doctor should have taken the MCAT and the same road, it could be a real issue in the future.

Why risk it?😕

 

[JoeNamaMD]

That is what I am saying, the OP should take the MCAT with the kind of GPA that was posted.

 

[mmcaule]

Maybe if you had considered two jobs at once, you would not be in the position you are now (not even in your ideal career at your age). I am simply considering all my options, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that (I am hardly the type to get lost in blissful ignorance). I certainly don't want to have to go through graduate school, work as a researcher for a bit, then realize I should have went to medical school - life is too short IMO - just because I was ignorant to my career options outside of research.

You are not getting the economics (with limited resources, I will have to make some compromises) of my situation; let's look at this with some game theory-type logic:

1) I write both the GRE and the MCAT (with doing some volunteering on the side - in order to get into medical school), I will have the potential to get into both med and grad school, but (because I will not be able to study as much for each since I will be studying for both) I will only do moderately well on both the GRE and the MCAT. I will be able to get into a decent med school, but, being that my graduate program of choice is highly competitive, I may not get into graduate school at all. Plus - I know you don't like this reasoning but I am human and therefore want to do as little work as possible to achieve my goals (THIS IS REALITY) - I will be dying of stress and mental pain for something (either the MCAT OR the GRE) that will be unnecessary. Don't twist my thoughts: I can handle it (e.g. studying for the USMLEs), but, UNLIKE THE USMLEs, it will to some degree be a waste of my time (if I decide to go for grad school, then I will have wasted my time studying for the MCAT).

2) I write only the GRE and I will do as well as I possibly can on it, and I am 95% certain I will get into my graduate program of choice. Yet another positive: I can still get accepted to some medical schools. IF I knew for sure that I wanted to go into research, I would definitely do this.

3) I write only the MCAT and I do a decent amount of volunteering, then I will do as well as I possibly can on the MCAT and I will likely get into my med school of choice. IF I knew for sure that I wanted to go into medicine, then I would definitely do this.

The FACT that I am still in limbo over medicine and research means #3 is definitely out of the question. The FACT that graduate school is still my number one (although that could change) means that I don't want to take the risk of investing time in both the MCAT and GRE and thus not being as certain that I will do well on either (and, therefore, maybe not doing well enough on the GRE to get into my program of choice, which is required for my career of choice). Thus, I am risking it (essentially all or nothing) by selecting option #1. Option #2 certainly is not ideal, but it is the best option IMO. I will be most certain that I can go for grad school and, if grad school ends up not being my interest, then I still can go for medical school. It just means a) I'll have to apply to a medical school that does not require the MCAT (of which there are a few in Canada that are highly reputable) AND b) that is not looking for volunteering saints. Foreign medical schools are the only ones that fit this profile (the Canadian medical schools that do not require the MCAT have high numbers of applicants [simply because they do not require the MCAT and they do not require any specific courses - e.g. they do not even require general biology] and thus look for people who have shown dedication to volunteering, amazing LORs, an enviable personal statement, an unstoppable interview, and so on...). And, best of all, a foreign medical school can still get me to my goal - being a doctor (if I so choose). Option #2 is the only option for me where I am 90% certain that I can either be a doctor or a researcher. Option #3 means I am 95% certain I will be a doctor; 0% certain I will be a researcher. Option #1, while being the most stressful of the three, gives me about 90% certainty of being a doctor; 70% certainty of being in the field of research I am interested in. I am taking what I have reasoned (certainly not briskly) to be my best route. It means that I may fail (and I acknowledge that as being my fault), but I will be taking the route that I honestly think will lead to my least likely chance for failure.

For a doctor-to-be, you are really having difficult understanding the complexity of the situation for me. It is not as simple as take the MCAT and everything will be fine and dandy. I appreciate the help you are offering, but you obviously don't know me enough to give a valid opinion. I simply want to know whether I stand a chance at getting accepted to a medical school like Saba (because it does not require the MCAT) because (/if) my marks outweigh my lack of volunteering. Let me decide for myself what I do to get into med school (economically); that is, if I do.

 

[bartonaw]

I have been in reserch for a number of years, both in pharmaceutical (much more applied) and in basic medical research (neurosurgery and OB/GYN). I am an older applicant and understand that there are a number of things I will have to do to prove that I have the stamina and the desire to be a physician.

I currently work for an MD/PhD who routinely works 24h while on service in L&D...much of this being routine. The statement you initially made:

"I love the idea that as a researcher I will be at the cutting-edge, but I am beginning to realize the truth of research: the ultimate goal is awesome, but the day-to-day activities seem rather simple and mundane."

Directly conflicts with the later statement:

"On the other hand, I do know the day-to-day activities of doctors because, well, I’m human and thus have spent enough time as the subject of doctors and I have seen countless shows on what doctors do - so I know enough to say I would like to be a doctor."

There is a tremendous amount of routine work. You are not always waving paddles around yelling "CLEAR"...Dx and Tx can be (from what I have seen) routine, but that in no way takes from its importance to the Pt. For that patient, just making him or her aware of the Dx, that it is not a big deal, and everything will be OK can be a big part of the job.

I will hopefully be accepted to a school this year so I can find out first hand. You sound very bright, and your GPA definately reflects this, but you really have to understand that intelligence alone is not a substitute for dedicated hard work.

"

 

[mmcaule]

I guess I should have been more specific: I don't like the whole mixing chemicals, pipetting, running gels, and other such mundane laboratory techniques that are the day-to-day activities of most scientific researchers. Obviously these techniques are required for making important (the least bit mundane) discoveries, but I simply HATE labs and thus I don't think research is for me. I am sure all work is routine after a while; it was not that the work was routine that is making me think again about research.

I will hopefully be accepted to a school this year so I can find out first hand. You sound very bright, and your GPA definately reflects this, but you really have to understand that intelligence alone is not a substitute for dedicated hard work.

Intelligence alone has not got me to the point I am now (I am no genius by any means); hard work, a good memory (most importantly), and interest in what I am studying has.

I suppose the number one thing I like/liked about research is interpreting hard data, making sense out of that data, and then explaining it to others. This, of course, is also exactly what doctors (for diagnostic specialties at least) do every day.

 

[AllIn4Life]

then ur good to go man...ur stats are impressive just volunteer a lil and take the MCAT without studying and you can get into all 4 main carib schools...then after you have ur MD, you can do research on the side which is exactly what a doctor my friend works for does

 

[mmcaule]

That sounds awesome (writing the MCAT without studying for it), but it is hardly realistic. I remember little of physics and both general and organic chemistry, so I would do poorly on the PS portion. Biology I obviously know quite well, but I still don't think I would do so hot without studying for it. Both in verbal reasoning and in the essay component, I should do well (studying for the verbal reasoning portion of the GRE will definitely be a big help). It would be a little odd to have a 2 PS, 5 BS, and 12 V with R essay - and with only a 20 MCAT, I am hardly "set" for ANY medical schools where I can practice in Canada and/or US. To me, it is either study all-out for the MCAT or don't write it at all.

 

[oldpro]

That sounds awesome (writing the MCAT without studying for it), but it is hardly realistic. I remember little of physics and both general and organic chemistry, so I would do poorly on the PS portion. Biology I obviously know quite well, but I still don't think I would do so hot without studying for it. Both in verbal reasoning and in the essay component, I should do well (studying for the verbal reasoning portion of the GRE will definitely be a big help). It would be a little odd to have a 2 PS, 5 BS, and 12 V with R essay - and with only a 20 MCAT, I am hardly "set" for ANY medical schools where I can practice in Canada and/or US. To me, it is either study all-out for the MCAT or don't write it at all.

I remember little of physics and both general and organic chemistry

This is why you should restudy and take the MCAT, How in the Heck will you do well in Medical School Biochem? You have to have a decent Foundation! for both Medical school and the USMLE (But what do I know? I'm a 3rd year half way through!)

What P's me off here is you are willing to put 200k on the line and risk failure for a few months of hard work that will cost nothing, just not going out with friends as much..........Jeez what in the heck do you think medical school and Residency will be like, 70 and 80 weeks are real not just made up. If medical school was easy more people would do it.

Wake up!


If you do not listen fine be a rebel its your life, I know this line of thinking well, but remember no one will owe the money but you, no one passes the tests but you (Schools do not fail students fail..........what a concept!)

 

[mmcaule]

Do you not understand english? I am not writing the MCAT because it simply would not be economical for me to do so, not because I am afraid of the work and certainly not because I am not willing to be a doctor.

I took orgo last year and I have already forgot much of it - if I study for the MCAT this spring, I will forget most of it by next spring anyway. Besides, I looked at practice questions for the cell biology and the biochemistry portion of the USMLE and I got 100% on the cell bio section and 77% on the biochem section - that is without even completing undergrad (let alone medical school) and without studying for it at all.

My study habits and cognitive abilities have allowed me to do well all through university; I hardly think that will change in medical school.

What I absolutely have to know is why you think I so badly need to write the MCAT and, thus, get accepted into a Canadian or American medical school.

 

[oldpro]

Do you not understand english? I am not writing the MCAT because it simply would not be economical for me to do so, not because I am afraid of the work and certainly not because I am not willing to be a doctor.

I took orgo last year and I have already forgot much of it - if I study for the MCAT this spring, I will forget most of it by next spring anyway. Besides, I looked at practice questions for the cell biology and the biochemistry portion of the USMLE and I got 100% on the cell bio section and 77% on the biochem section - that is without even completing undergrad (let alone medical school) and without studying for it at all.

My study habits and cognitive abilities have allowed me to do well all through university; I hardly think that will change in medical school.

What I absolutely have to know is why you think I so badly need to write the MCAT and, thus, get accepted into a Canadian or American medical school.

No you don't get it at all

What you have said scares me some

Medical School is way different then undergrad and the USMLE is not a standardized test, you may be in trouble

Other Med students can tell you these things also!

Good Luck

 

[mmcaule]

Medical School is way different then undergrad and the USMLE is not a standardized test, you may be in trouble

If this was true, then success in undergrad would have 0 correlation with success in medical school. I know med school and undergrad are different, but I am certain that success in undergrad is nicely correlated with success in medical school (otherwise, what would be the point in discriminating on the basis of undergrad GPA?). If I am successful in undergrad, I am likely (but not guaranteed, of course) to be successful in med school.

 

[oldpro]

If this was true, then success in undergrad would have 0 correlation with success in medical school. I know med school and undergrad are different, but I am certain that success in undergrad is nicely correlated with success in medical school (otherwise, what would be the point in discriminating on the basis of undergrad GPA?). If I am successful in undergrad, I am likely (but not guaranteed, of course) to be successful in med school.

What you stated:

I took orgo last year and I have already forgot much of it - if I study for the MCAT this spring, I will forget most of it by next spring anyway. Besides, I looked at practice questions for the cell biology and the biochemistry portion of the USMLE and I got 100% on the cell bio section and 77% on the biochem section - that is without even completing undergrad (let alone medical school) and without studying for it at all.

you made a point of forgetting what you study, medical school is 3 different processes,
memorization
mechanisms
then applying both

for the usmle you have to apply both

until you walk the walk (as I have) its hard to talk the talk

Q bank
USMLE world are half decent Q's

NMBE is really close to USMLE (Some of the best)

BRS questions are BS for the board

The USMLE tests "WHY" and "HOW" they assume you know what, it is not you recognize answer, you have to know why a pneumo happens along with the arteries in the area, its a hard test, there are what are called three step questions, I call them "Leap of faith" do you really think people who go to medical school and pass basic science are not smart just because they fail step one? The reason is the USMLE is very hard and the demands of knowing the material inside out are absolute. So when you forget the material, most of it, you will be in trouble.

Look I think you are smart, I knew some very smart people in Basic science who failed the tests being smart is not enough thats the point here

I just want you to really think about this and think about doing the right steps to have the best future. I still do not get the rush you are not 43 going on 44 like I am.

I really wish you good luck

 

[JPR22]

mmcaule

Canadian pre-meds frustrate me. You've got a lot going for you now. If I were you I'd focus on the GRE and working now, keeping your grades up, and take the MCAT when you can study for it. Canadian med schools are REALLY hard to get into, but youve got a shot, escpecially if you get a good MCAT. You'll probably need a masters to be competitive anyways.

Canadians should do some serious thinking before heading to the Caribbean.

 

[M.Furfur]

A master's degree won't make you more competitive for Canadian medical school unless you really end up working in major research and publishing. The spots for graduate students are very limited and if you don't get into those spots you will be evaluated according to your undergraduate education which brings you to the same starting point.

For the MCAT, it really depends on the province. 3 out of 6 Ontario schools don't require MCAT and for the rest MCAT is mostly for cutoff purposes.

 

[JPR22]

Evidence would suggest that a masters does make you more competitive, at least at Mac. Reality is most applicants are unlikely to get in on the first try (or ever), grad school is a great way to bridge the gap. Of course its not for everyone, but if mmcaule is already interested that may be the way to go. True 3/6 schools dont require the MCAT, but one is Mac, which gets thousands of applicants per year.