What are my options if I fail to get accepted into medical school?

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Usually gaining entry to PA school is also very difficult. From what I understand they often want very high numbers of clinical hours. I suggest you look into the app process and make sure that you are okay with the differences in practice between MD and PA.
 
mddoc52381 said:
Apart from the financial reasons, doctors help people and it is a powerful position.

That’s really all I have.
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No shame. But there are a lot of jobs outside of medicine and healthcare that allow you to make money and be in positions of respect or authority. Once you have either of those, you can help people too. Explore other avenues is what I'd suggest.
 
mddoc52381 said:
Apart from the financial reasons, doctors help people and it is a powerful position.

That’s really all I have.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you probably didn't put in the time and energy to have a competitive app. I'd suggest going for another route. Many different fields can give you these.
 
mddoc52381 said:
Apart from the financial reasons, doctors help people and it is a powerful position.

That’s really all I have.
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Wooooow! At least you're honest? If that's all the reasons you can muster up then medicine might not be for you. I'm not trying to be mean or anything but... good luck with the rest of the cycle.
 
mddoc52381 said:
Apart from the financial reasons, doctors help people and it is a powerful position.

That’s really all I have.
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Bad news: In this day and age, doctors are limited by rules and regulations of this industry and their payer source. I'm not so sure about the power part anymore.

Good news: you can help people and make lots of money in many areas NOT related to medicine or patient care.
 
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climbrunskirepeat said:
I hope your PS reads better than this. Also, unsure what "financial reasons" you're talking about.
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From Investopedia:

1. Anesthesiologists
2018 report mean annual wage: $265,990

2017 report mean annual wage: $232,280

The BLS defines anesthesiologists as, "Physicians who administer anesthetics prior to, during, or after surgery, or other medical procedures." Anesthesiologists were ranked first the previous year as well. There are approximately 32,590 anesthesiologists in the U.S., per the most recent BLS data.


Am I missing something?
 
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Hirro said:
Yeah. You're missing the part where medicine honestly isn't worth it for the money. Plenty of other jobs pay just as well with a lot less effort/work/debt/training.
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There are few jobs out there where you can make the difference we do, get respected for it, get paid well for it, and have such great job security.

I did not go into medicine for the money or because it checked off all those boxes, but those perks do become much more important as you get older and have kids. When I was in high school/college I used to think I had to do something meaningful with my life, like teach/do peace corps/become a doctor. But once you have a family you realize even if you’re bagging groceries you’re doing something meaningful because your most important job is to support your family and give everything you have to your children. It’s a bonus I get to do that while also working a job I enjoy.
 
RangerBob said:
There are few jobs out there where you can make the difference we do, get respected for it, get paid well for it, and have such great job security.

I did not go into medicine for the money or because it checked off all those boxes, but those perks do become much more important as you get older and have kids. When I was in high school/college I used to think I had to do something meaningful with my life, like teach/do peace corps/become a doctor. But once you have a family you realize even if you’re bagging groceries you’re doing something meaningful because your most important job is to support your family and give everything you have to your children. It’s a bonus I get to do that while also working a job I enjoy.
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truth
 
mddoc52381 said:
From Investopedia:

1. Anesthesiologists
2018 report mean annual wage: $265,990

2017 report mean annual wage: $232,280

The BLS defines anesthesiologists as, "Physicians who administer anesthetics prior to, during, or after surgery, or other medical procedures." Anesthesiologists were ranked first the previous year as well. There are approximately 32,590 anesthesiologists in the U.S., per the most recent BLS data.


Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Yes. 60 to 80 hr work weeks, 24 hrs shifts, nights, weekends, holidays. Convert that salary to a 40 hr work week with no night's weekends or holidays, your looking at 135k. Know a PA in the ER works 3 12hr shifts a week and salary is 112k, plus benefits and student loan forgiveness. Right out of school. Is 350 to 400k of student debt worth that to you to be an anesthesiologist?
 
Hirro said:
Yeah. You're missing the part where medicine honestly isn't worth it for the money. Plenty of other jobs pay just as well with a lot less effort/work/debt/training.
Click to expand...
Sorry, which jobs pay "just as well" with "a lot" less effort, work, debt or training? I don't understand where people keep pulling this out of their ass from. Name ONE job that has equal pay to medicine (~150-250k or above), with A LOT less work... Law? Lots of work, and you have to a) go to top tier school to get a decent job and b) bust your ass to make it to biglaw, the big bucks. Finance? TONs of work to get started, and chances are slim you will get into a big IB position that pays over 300k. Engineering? 😵 The closest you'll get with similar training, education, et cetera, will also be in healthcare: pharm, nursing, PA, and then up the rung to dentistry.

OP, do dentistry.
 
panbimbo said:
Median salary at Facebook. Try to land a job at Facebook first. Also, where's the job security there? Finally, it takes years of learning to program and pulling all nighters as a CS major to be competent programmer, I imagine, the likes of which could be hired at FB.
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A lot of tech jobs are like this. Just as an anectdote - I have a friend who did a 6 month CS boot camp and she doubled her salary (> $100k).

Also we're not saying it takes no effort at all; to do well you can't just sit around.
 
panbimbo said:
Median salary at Facebook. Try to land a job at Facebook first. Also, where's the job security there? Finally, it takes years of learning to program and pulling all nighters as a CS major to be competent programmer, I imagine, the likes of which could be hired at FB.
Click to expand...
Job security in medicine? One of the local universities non renewed 10+ radiologists a few years ago to hire fellows at a lower rate. With restrictive covenant, they had to sell their homes and leave the area. Medical contracts are 2 to 5 years, typically. They can non renew your contract for any reason and you have no recourse.
 
Let's also realize we somehow assumed that anesthesiology is representative of all specalties. In our discussion, FB is like anesthesiology, people who work their butt off can get there. Medicine is a heterogenous profession when it comes to pay - almost as heterogenous as many industries but some of those industries done require the x years of training medicine brings.

The point is, based off the few things they've said, the OP has a lot more to consider before getting into medicine.
 
Anybody who wanna do medecine, but can't find any other good reason for wanting to go that path other than money, shouldn't do it at all. I mean we all like the money, but if that's your only motivator, you're gonna be very miserable in this field. That's if you make it through the stressful rigors of medical school, and not wanna call it quit right in the middle of your pre-clinical years after realizing that you've made a terrible mistake going there in the first place.

My advice find another calling, or a better reason to medicine other than money deep down within yourself.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile
 
Angus Avagadro said:
Job security in medicine? One of the local universities non renewed 10+ radiologists a few years ago to hire fellows at a lower rate. With restrictive covenant, they had to sell their homes and leave the area. Medical contracts are 2 to 5 years, typically. They can non renew your contract for any reason and you have no recourse.
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I doubt they will have serious trouble finding another job...
 
panbimbo said:
I doubt they will have serious trouble finding another job...
Click to expand...
There are jobs and there are good jobs. Probably can find a crappy job, somewhere. Rads jobs are not plentiful, and good ones are even fewer. If a job is posted, there is usually a reason why. Good jobs are usually filled without advertising and get filled quickly. It might take longer than your 3 to 6 months notice to find a good one. You will find out in due time.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
Yes. 60 to 80 hr work weeks, 24 hrs shifts, nights, weekends, holidays. Convert that salary to a 40 hr work week with no night's weekends or holidays, your looking at 135k. Know a PA in the ER works 3 12hr shifts a week and salary is 112k, plus benefits and student loan forgiveness. Right out of school. Is 350 to 400k of student debt worth that to you to be an anesthesiologist?
Click to expand...
To this list of woes add people dying you and others suing you.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
Yes. 60 to 80 hr work weeks, 24 hrs shifts, nights, weekends, holidays. Convert that salary to a 40 hr work week with no night's weekends or holidays, your looking at 135k. Know a PA in the ER works 3 12hr shifts a week and salary is 112k, plus benefits and student loan forgiveness. Right out of school. Is 350 to 400k of student debt worth that to you to be an anesthesiologist?
Click to expand...
VBU330S.png

FUD9sOj.png

While obviously becoming a physician only for the money is not worth it, no need to downplay the great salary and lifestyle that can come with it. A doctor I shadow works 26 hours a week + a few hours sorting paperwork and makes bank. It varies, of course, but if one wants, one can work reasonable hours and get good money
 
To play devil's advocate, you're going to be hard-pressed finding a job where you are guaranteed a top few percent income after finishing your training. Of course, if your only interest is money, finance and business are where its at; however, even in those saturated fields you are by no means guaranteed any salary of mention. The tops in those fields make doctors look like paupers, but to make it to those ranks is unlikely even with years of hard work and commitment. I'm not going into medicine for the money, but if at the end of medical school and residency I would only make 50 grand a year, I can't say it wouldn't change my decision.
 
mddoc52381 said:
From Investopedia:

1. Anesthesiologists
2018 report mean annual wage: $265,990

2017 report mean annual wage: $232,280

The BLS defines anesthesiologists as, "Physicians who administer anesthetics prior to, during, or after surgery, or other medical procedures." Anesthesiologists were ranked first the previous year as well. There are approximately 32,590 anesthesiologists in the U.S., per the most recent BLS data.


Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Lol, if any anesthesiologist is making that then they either sacrificed their salary for location or are getting completely screwed.

What you are missing however is the 4 years of medical school and going into 300k of debt, the 4 years of residency where you get paid less than minimum wage to work 80 hours a week, and then having to start your career far later than your peers in other fields and realizing that you have a lot of catching up to do with regards to retirement savings, starting your life, etc. Oh and the part where physicians are increasingly being told what to do by our administrative overlords.

For me it's all worth it, but for what you have said your reasons are I highly doubt you will even remotely enjoy medicine.
 
ForgottenPro said:
VBU330S.png

FUD9sOj.png

While obviously becoming a physician only for the money is not worth it, no need to downplay the great salary and lifestyle that can come with it. A doctor I shadow works 26 hours a week + a few hours sorting paperwork and makes bank. It varies, of course, but if one wants, one can work reasonable hours and get good money
Click to expand...
56 % of anesthesiologists work 45 to 64+ hrs a week according to the Medscape article. Anesthesiologists dont punch in or fill out time sheets. They are under contract with productivity clauses. They can only guesstimate how many hours they work. If you want to work in an outpatient surgery center with no night's weekends or holidays, you will not come close to those numbers. Notice nearly half work less than 45 hrs a week. Those are part time or outpatient. You need to work full time with frequent specialty call to make 400k. Not the cushy lifestyle you envision when you finish training in 6 to 8 years. As I said above, you'll find out soon enough.
 
panbimbo said:
Sorry, which jobs pay "just as well" with "a lot" less effort, work, debt or training? I don't understand where people keep pulling this out of their ass from. Name ONE job that has equal pay to medicine (~150-250k or above), with A LOT less work... Law? Lots of work, and you have to a) go to top tier school to get a decent job and b) bust your ass to make it to biglaw, the big bucks. Finance? TONs of work to get started, and chances are slim you will get into a big IB position that pays over 300k. Engineering? 😵 The closest you'll get with similar training, education, et cetera, will also be in healthcare: pharm, nursing, PA, and then up the rung to dentistry.

OP, do dentistry.
Click to expand...
The plumbers in my area make $65/hour.
 
Podiatry welcomes you, you'll probs get a scholarship. Same exact pre-reqs as medical school. No secondaries. Still a doctor. Still a surgeon. Sometimes a physician (depending on the state). Come on over to the dark side. Feet aren't all that bad all things considered.
 
JKGarv said:
Podiatry welcomes you, you'll probs get a scholarship. Same exact pre-reqs as medical school. No secondaries. Still a doctor. Still a surgeon. Sometimes a physician (depending on the state). Come on over to the dark side. Feet aren't all that bad all things considered.
Click to expand...
Do people ever get full rides?
 
Hopefully your major allows you to find a job that isn't considered being underemployed. I know quite a few people who put their eggs into one basket and ended up working entry-level clinical jobs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can check out a full-stack boot camp (coding), because apparently people are getting hired for some serious money without computer science degrees. There are plenty of other jobs out there as well.
 
If you don't get in apply again. On the money part-I have friends with just a Bachelor degree earning good money (with no 6 figures debt). Go into the business major if you're interested in fast money making. Healthcare isn't limited to just being a doctor-health administration, nursing, PA and so many more lets you start earning a decent salary without the crippling debt and you can still help people.

On a personal note-I feel premeds are too hypnotized by being just a doctor that they fail to develop other skills. For the most part, if you get in that's fine but I'm not a gambler and even into medical school I think it is important to develop skills and interest that is not medicine or at least not biology related.
 
panbimbo said:
Median salary at Facebook. Try to land a job at Facebook first. Also, where's the job security there? Finally, it takes years of learning to program and pulling all nighters as a CS major to be competent programmer, I imagine, the likes of which could be hired at FB.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Not to mention, there aren’t too many people making 120k+ working 40 hours—except for the PA example mentioned. Most people I know in other fields making good money work closer to 60 hours per week.

Friends in HVAC, plumbing, or electricians often work weekends. One positive about the trades is that you are paid to train. Trade unions also provide great benefits like free insurance for an entire family. No one should go into medicine for the money or lifestyle.

There are much shorter paths to money with better quality of life. However, in 2018, there aren’t a surplus of great jobs with good benefits, pay, and job security. No matter what you decide to do, it’s going to take a lot of time to get there and a lot of effort to continue to be successful.
 
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EMS0821 said:
To play devil's advocate, you're going to be hard-pressed finding a job where you are guaranteed a top few percent income after finishing your training. Of course, if your only interest is money, finance and business are where its at; however, even in those saturated fields you are by no means guaranteed any salary of mention. The tops in those fields make doctors look like paupers, but to make it to those ranks is unlikely even with years of hard work and commitment. I'm not going into medicine for the money, but if at the end of medical school and residency I would only make 50 grand a year, I can't say it wouldn't change my decision.
Click to expand...

I can guarantee you that if after four years of med school + residency, all the hard classes etc. one came out making 50k, NOBODY would do it. Not saying money is my driving factor, but it certainly matters...
 
RangerBob said:
There are few jobs out there where you can make the difference we do, get respected for it, get paid well for it, and have such great job security.

I did not go into medicine for the money or because it checked off all those boxes, but those perks do become much more important as you get older and have kids. When I was in high school/college I used to think I had to do something meaningful with my life, like teach/do peace corps/become a doctor. But once you have a family you realize even if you’re bagging groceries you’re doing something meaningful because your most important job is to support your family and give everything you have to your children. It’s a bonus I get to do that while also working a job I enjoy.
Click to expand...
This point is lost on a lot of people my age. I don't know if it's something of my generation or just part of being 24, but not many people my age really seem to care about having children or starting a family (luckily my gf is on board). they either do things for themselves and focus only on having fun or are so hippie that they believe they will just adopt some african child when they are 40 and their party years are over.

I get it though and wanna be able to save for those little swimmers that will one day grow inside another human and become a human.

/end super weird rant.
 
chemdoctor said:
I can guarantee you that if after four years of med school + residency, all the hard classes etc. one came out making 50k, NOBODY would do it. Not saying money is my driving factor, but it certainly matters...
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The amount of money someone should be making out of med school/residency is just a baseline starting point for wanting to be a Doctor, no one argues with that. Nevertheless, people still actually take a pay cut to get loan repayment gigs. But one must definitely have another good driving factor other than money if he/she wanna survive medicine.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile
 
DrStephenStrange said:
The amount of money someone should be making out of med school/residency is just a baseline starting point for wanting to be a Doctor, no one argues with that. Nevertheless, people still actually take a pay cut to get loan repayment gigs. But one must definitely have another good driving factor other than money if he/she wanna survive medicine.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Oh yeah definitely. Going into medicine just for the money prob isn’t the best since there’re easier and more efficient ways if money is the only goal. I’m just saying money matters. But I absolutely agree, don’t go in for the money
 
chemdoctor said:
I can guarantee you that if after four years of med school + residency, all the hard classes etc. one came out making 50k, NOBODY would do it. Not saying money is my driving factor, but it certainly matters...
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I definitely agree with you, but it seems like a controversial thought on this site from the posts I've seen. At the end of the day its still a job, it is a job with a ton of responsibility and red tape, and I agree, that there are better options for just the money; but the money is undeniably a factor.
 
EMS0821 said:
I definitely agree with you, but it seems like a controversial thought on this site from the posts I've seen. At the end of the day its still a job, it is a job with a ton of responsibility and red tape, and I agree, that there are better options for just the money; but the money is undeniably a factor.
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Agree. People talk about money in hushed tones like it’s a bad thing. But across the world, everyone is trying to hustle to provide for themselves and their family. Everyone wants a better life. You shouldn’t have money as your only motivation in medicine, but it can be one of the main goals. You’re not Scrooge McDuck, hoarding it. You’re spending it on a good life and providing for your kids etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


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OrthoTraumaMD said:
Agree. People talk about money in hushed tones like it’s a bad thing. But across the world, everyone is trying to hustle to provide for themselves and their family. Everyone wants a better life. You shouldn’t have money as your only motivation in medicine, but it can be one of the main goals. You’re not Scrooge McDuck, hoarding it. You’re spending it on a good life and providing for your kids etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

I just hate how if someone says it at an interview it’s viewed as a bad thing. I mean yeah there’re quicker ways to make money, but medicine offers a strong amount of job security
 
chemdoctor said:
I just hate how if someone says it at an interview it’s viewed as a bad thing. I mean yeah there’re quicker ways to make money, but medicine offers a strong amount of job security
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And student loans. I guess they're looking for people with actual compassion and passion for the field, and who are not driven only by money.

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chemdoctor said:
I just hate how if someone says it at an interview it’s viewed as a bad thing. I mean yeah there’re quicker ways to make money, but medicine offers a strong amount of job security
Click to expand...
It's pretty baseline thing. Something not totally unique to medicine. You look on fourms and Reddit and tons of people talk about how they hate medicine now. They only did it for a good career, well now you are 250k deep in debt. Lots of people do develop depression because they feel stuck in medicine. You better like medicine for few more reasons to get through it
 
puahate said:
It's pretty baseline thing. Something not totally unique to medicine. You look on fourms and Reddit and tons of people talk about how they hate medicine now. They only did it for a good career, well now you are 250k deep in debt. Lots of people do develop depression because they feel stuck in medicine. You better like medicine for few more reasons to get through it
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100% agree. Going in JUST for the money isn’t worth it because of all the rigorous training + student debt. You’re putting in that much money too.
 
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