WHAT ARE NON TRADS THOUGHTS ON 2020-21 APPLICATION CYCLE?

[nibhighfootballrules]

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Hi everyone wanted to ask what people's thoughts are regarding the state of the upcoming application cycle? As a non trad with a low uGPA in business followed by a strong post bac/MCAT I am curious what the potential alterations will mean for applying this cycle. I saw that some DO schools will be accepting students without MCAT scores, however most will not offer acceptances until the scores are received but will extend interview invitations. As there has been limited information from AMCAS regarding MD's alterations, I can only imagine that similar steps will be taken with regards to the MCAT. I know it is highly unlikely (although there is no way of knowing for certain) that the MCAT will be disregarded altogether for MD consideration however for an applicant like myself who has a very weak cGPA but high MCAT I cant imagine this being a good scenario. An application is more than just stats so much more goes into it and as a career changer I truly understand this, but taking the arguably most objective metric like the MCAT out of the equation (or giving it less importance) seems disadvantageous. I wonder if it would be better to postpone applying until things return to normal next year (hoping for everyones' sake and safety this is the case) or if that would be a waste. Also with the potential for the application start date being pushed back the advantage of applying early appears to be lost as well if that were to occur. I hope that this post does not come across as minimizing the global impact this pandemic has on literally everyone but just wanted to start an open discussion with those in similar situations to hear their perspectives. Thanks!

 

[JustAnotherNonTrad]

I skimmed through and found your stats on a previous page. Solid work in the postbac and your MCAT is solid. Sadly, there isn't much you can do about your cumulative GPA. You'd be taking classes for the next few years to get that up. The strength in your application is going to come from the non-numerical items (volunteer work, ECs, research, personal essay, etc.). How do those look for you? You're in a solid position to get your application in early and I would still forge ahead as though this were a typical cycle. Select your school list wisely and I think you'll be very successful, you'll probably have acceptances by the fall 🙂

 

[notretired]

Whatever changes happen to the upcoming cycle will effect everyone. I cannot see the mcat getting removed from the picture for md schools, they might interview students before scores come back, but by the time decisions are made everyone will have a score. With good essays/ec's you have a decent shot at md. I applied this year with very similar stats - low cgpa in an unrelated field, high sgpa/postbacc/mcat. I think these types of students are given a little more leeway than someone trying to recover from poor grades in the more traditional tracks. It would be a mistake if you didn't apply this cycle.

 

[nibhighfootballrules]

Whatever changes happen to the upcoming cycle will effect everyone. I cannot see the mcat getting removed from the picture for md schools, they might interview students before scores come back, but by the time decisions are made everyone will have a score. With good essays/ec's you have a decent shot at md. I applied this year with very similar stats - low cgpa in an unrelated field, high sgpa/postbacc/mcat. I think these types of students are given a little more leeway than someone trying to recover from poor grades in the more traditional tracks. It would be a mistake if you didn't apply this cycle.

Hi thanks so much for the reply, do you mind sharing your experience with the previous cycle? Would it be ok for me to pm you?

 

[nibhighfootballrules]

I skimmed through and found your stats on a previous page. Solid work in the postbac and your MCAT is solid. Sadly, there isn't much you can do about your cumulative GPA. You'd be taking classes for the next few years to get that up. The strength in your application is going to come from the non-numerical items (volunteer work, ECs, research, personal essay, etc.). How do those look for you? You're in a solid position to get your application in early and I would still forge ahead as though this were a typical cycle. Select your school list wisely and I think you'll be very successful, you'll probably have acceptances by the fall 🙂

Thanks for the response! I believe my EC's are well rounded and I have truly enjoyed them since switching careers. A weakness of mine however is lack of research experience. I performed a semester long clinical research internship during my post bac but did not publish any work etc. Research opportunities were tough to come by as a non trad student working/volunteering/ and going to school full time. With regards to school list I am planning on applying to a lot of schools given the unusual nature of my app and uncertainty as to how it will be viewed by any particular school.

 

[DocJanItor]

Thanks for the response! I believe my EC's are well rounded and I have truly enjoyed them since switching careers. A weakness of mine however is lack of research experience. I performed a semester long clinical research internship during my post bac but did not publish any work etc. Research opportunities were tough to come by as a non trad student working/volunteering/ and going to school full time. With regards to school list I am planning on applying to a lot of schools given the unusual nature of my app and uncertainty as to how it will be viewed by any particular school.

Research really doesn't make a difference unless you're applying to top ~50 schools, and even then it's not a dealbreaker unless you're in the top 20. With a cGPA of 3.17 you need to apply broadly to low/mid tier MD schools and any DO schools that are attractive to you. I'd advise you not to spend money on "reach" schools; while your MCAT is great, it won't compensate for your low cGPA. At this point your best chances are probably state MD schools and DO schools.

If, however, you want to shoot for higher tier schools, you could always do an SMP. This is high risk, though. If you do well you will have wider options for acceptance, particularly if the SMP has an interview program with their associated med school. There's also the possibility that you will only get into a school you could've already gotten into. And finally, you could do poorly and eliminate your chances of entering med school altogether.

 

[notretired]

Would it be ok for me to pm you?

Fire away

 

[nibhighfootballrules]

Research really doesn't make a difference unless you're applying to top ~50 schools, and even then it's not a dealbreaker unless you're in the top 20. With a cGPA of 3.17 you need to apply broadly to low/mid tier MD schools and any DO schools that are attractive to you. I'd advise you not to spend money on "reach" schools; while your MCAT is great, it won't compensate for your low cGPA. At this point your best chances are probably state MD schools and DO schools.

If, however, you want to shoot for higher tier schools, you could always do an SMP. This is high risk, though. If you do well you will have wider options for acceptance, particularly if the SMP has an interview program with their associated med school. There's also the possibility that you will only get into a school you could've already gotten into. And finally, you could do poorly and eliminate your chances of entering med school altogether.

thanks for the insight. Low cGPA is a big concern of mine. Not sure how it will be viewed given non science based and career change. Plan was to apply mainly to mid/low tier (although literally any school A would be a dream) and 2-3 DO schools. Was only planning on applying to 3 or 4 "reach" schools because why not. With regards to the SMP as I have already taken out a lot of money to pursue this dream and will be 27 starting school if things go well I am hoping to forgo that route but what you are saying I agree with. Any other advice with school selection would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[esob]

If you post your stats you will be able to get more appropriate feedback.

 

[GreenDuck12]

thanks for the insight. Low cGPA is a big concern of mine. Not sure how it will be viewed given non science based and career change. Plan was to apply mainly to mid/low tier (although literally any school A would be a dream) and 2-3 DO schools. Was only planning on applying to 3 or 4 "reach" schools because why not. With regards to the SMP as I have already taken out a lot of money to pursue this dream and will be 27 starting school if things go well I am hoping to forgo that route but what you are saying I agree with. Any other advice with school selection would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

starting at 27 is pretty young for this forum. Don’t let concerns about age push you to speed up your timeline and risk and unsuccessful cycle. It is harder to gain admission after an unsuccessful cycle. I decided to pursue a career change at 25 and will be matriculating this year at the age of 30.

 

[nibhighfootballrules]

If you post your stats you will be able to get more appropriate feedback.

OP was more geared towards asking if its disadvantageous for a non-trad like myself whose strength (quantitatively) comes from a high MCAT/ being able to apply June 1st which both might be less important this cycle or it would not matter.

25 y/o ORM (graduated 2016 with degree in Finance, worked in field for 1.5 years)
cGPA: 3.17
sGPA: 3.79
Post Bacc: 3.97
Mcat: 521

EC: volunteer work as mentor for disadvantaged youth 2 years, EMT, TA, Fitness instructor, clinical research internship (no authorships or pubs), tutor for adults trying to pass high school equivalency exam, co-founded relief effort to get groceries/essential goods to elderly/immunocompromised during pandemic, full time scribe, shadowed ER, family medicine, and radiology oncologist for about 100 hours combined.

I understand listing EC's is pointless if you cannot explain them well/ talk passionately about them.

Any advice much appreciated!

 

[deleted947265]

Well... my MCAT was cancelled twice, so I'll be applying next year instead so 0/10 ITS A DISASTER

 

[GreenDuck12]

OP was more geared towards asking if its disadvantageous for a non-trad like myself whose strength (quantitatively) comes from a high MCAT/ being able to apply June 1st which both might be less important this cycle or it would not matter.

25 y/o ORM (graduated 2016 with degree in Finance, worked in field for 1.5 years)
cGPA: 3.17
sGPA: 3.79
Post Bacc: 3.97
Mcat: 521

EC: volunteer work as mentor for disadvantaged youth 2 years, EMT, TA, Fitness instructor, clinical research internship (no authorships or pubs), tutor for adults trying to pass high school equivalency exam, co-founded relief effort to get groceries/essential goods to elderly/immunocompromised during pandemic, full time scribe, shadowed ER, family medicine, and radiology oncologist for about 100 hours combined.

I understand listing EC's is pointless if you cannot explain them well/ talk passionately about them.

Any advice much appreciated!

State of residence?

 

[nibhighfootballrules]

State of residence?

NY

 

[GreenDuck12]

thanks for the insight. Low cGPA is a big concern of mine. Not sure how it will be viewed given non science based and career change. Plan was to apply mainly to mid/low tier (although literally any school A would be a dream) and 2-3 DO schools. Was only planning on applying to 3 or 4 "reach" schools because why not. With regards to the SMP as I have already taken out a lot of money to pursue this dream and will be 27 starting school if things go well I am hoping to forgo that route but what you are saying I agree with. Any other advice with school selection would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

The cGPA is definitely a concern. I wouldn’t recommend applying to many reach schools because your GPA is likely below a cutoff point and you run the risk of being screened out. Your MCAT as you know puts you in the top 2% of all test takers and shows that you have the ability to make it through medical school, as does your strong postbac performance. The challenge is getting a school to take a chance on you when there are many applicants with higher GPAs and lower MCAT scores. Applicants in your position have between a 48-56% acceptance rate, which isn’t bad (data below). Your best shot will be at your state programs and schools that more heavily weight the MCAT. You can find those programs on MSAR by looking for schools with lower GPAs but higher MCAT scores. NY is not a bad state of residence to have, certainly better than CA but more challenging than others. I would recommend including DO programs on your list to decrease the risk of an unsuccessful cycle. Your personal statements are going to need to clearly articulate why you want to be a doctor and what you hope to achieve.

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2020-04/2019_FACTS_Table_A-23_0.pdf

 

[nibhighfootballrules]

The cGPA is definitely a concern. I wouldn’t recommend applying to many reach schools because your GPA is likely below a cutoff point and you run the risk of being screened out. Your MCAT as you know puts you in the top 2% of all test takers and shows that you have the ability to make it through medical school, as does your strong postbac performance. The challenge is getting a school to take a chance on you when there are many applicants with higher GPAs and lower MCAT scores. Applicants in your position have between a 48-56% acceptance rate, which isn’t bad (data below). Your best shot will be at your state programs and schools that more heavily weight the MCAT. You can find those programs on MSAR by looking for schools with lower GPAs but higher MCAT scores. NY is not a bad state of residence to have, certainly better than CA but more challenging than others. I would recommend including DO programs on your list to decrease the risk of an unsuccessful cycle. Your personal statements are going to need to clearly articulate why you want to be a doctor and what you hope to achieve.

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2020-04/2019_FACTS_Table_A-23_0.pdf

Awesome, thank you very much for the advice!

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

Congrats on the MCAT. You will be getting interviews at MDs probably. I would email the schools that you are interested in attending and ask about if you will be screened out because of your cGPA. This way, you are not guessing and know for certain. Because your MCAT is so good, they will probably humor you answer some of your questions.

Don't apply to DO with those stats, medicine is changing drastically and you need every advantage you can get. Make sure you have the right letters from physician. Ideally, if you can shadow a senior physician in a residency program would be ideal, but you shouldn't need it. Speak to as many physicians that you trust as possible. The only way that I can see you being derailed is if the person you are interviewing with believe that you have no idea what you are getting yourself into. Speak to people on committee (if you have personal contacts) and ask them how to best frame your story.

You are smart enough to get into an MD, graduate, and do well. You just need the right message to them and the right support.

 

[esob]

OP was more geared towards asking if its disadvantageous for a non-trad like myself whose strength (quantitatively) comes from a high MCAT/ being able to apply June 1st which both might be less important this cycle or it would not matter.

25 y/o ORM (graduated 2016 with degree in Finance, worked in field for 1.5 years)
cGPA: 3.17
sGPA: 3.79
Post Bacc: 3.97
Mcat: 521

EC: volunteer work as mentor for disadvantaged youth 2 years, EMT, TA, Fitness instructor, clinical research internship (no authorships or pubs), tutor for adults trying to pass high school equivalency exam, co-founded relief effort to get groceries/essential goods to elderly/immunocompromised during pandemic, full time scribe, shadowed ER, family medicine, and radiology oncologist for about 100 hours combined.

I understand listing EC's is pointless if you cannot explain them well/ talk passionately about them.

Any advice much appreciated!

Yeah, I understand, but I needed to know how high we were talking for the MCAT vs how low for the GPA. In your case, yes, you are in a good spot by applying early. With a 520+ you should get interviews with anything over a 3.0 given the current state where many applicants are missing an MCAT score. Considering that your post-bac and sGPA are good, you are actually in a pretty decent position at this point. MCAT scores are typically distributed along a bell curve and in a "normal" cycle where everyone was taking their MCAT's on time, there would be a higher total # of applicants with 520+ scores. However, in the current situation, there will be a lot fewer of them early in the cycle and in a sea of applications, anything that makes you stick out in a positive light is good for snagging an early interview.

That said, many schools do ultimately factor in GPA when ranking their interviewees, but it carries less weight than the interview itself. The take-home from that point is to make sure you do well in your interviews. If you do, you will likely end up with some acceptances that you might not have otherwise gotten if the pandemic had not occurred.