What are some mid-tier anesthesia programs?

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PAC2DO

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Hello.
Im a DO student applying for anesthesia. Top 10% in class. Step 1 was 243. President of anesthesia club. Former Physician Assistant in ER and orthopedic surgery. What are some mid-tier programs in east coast or west coast?

Thanks in advance!
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PAC2DO said:
Hello.
Im a DO student applying for anesthesia. Top 10% in class. Step 1 was 243. President of anesthesia club. Former Physician Assistant in ER and orthopedic surgery. What are some mid-tier programs in east coast or west coast?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

this questions is soo broad that no one is going to bother with a response...


try narrowing it down with a more specific region, like new england, or nyc, or cali, or i heard about this program any thoughts?
 
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Apply where you want to go. Then apply to places that are less competitive to ensure you match somewhere.

Don’t choose where to apply based on your perceived competitiveness. Apply where you want. If your perceived competitiveness is low, add safety programs.

The whole application process is really that easy.

(Not trying to be a dick, just trying to distill it down for you. Good luck! )
 
Hoya11 said:
this questions is soo broad that no one is going to bother with a response...


try narrowing it down with a more specific region, like new england, or nyc, or cali, or i heard about this program any thoughts?
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Sorry about being too broad. Im looking mostly California and NYC/NJ. Thank you
 
BLADEMDA said:
California is tough but NYC/NJ won't be hard for you to match. A classic example of a solid midtier program would be NYU vs Mt Sinai which is an upper 1/4 program.
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Why are NYU / mt Sinai mid tier programs? I consider these top tier.. same category as Columbia/Cornell. The only difference is Columbia does lung transplant (not important to residents IMO since fellows will be doing these for the most part. Also Columbia has more peds. But at same time their PD just stepped down after half their cardiac applicants ddidnt match.. Cornell has better regional. Sinai has more liver transplant still. NYU has more trauma)

For mid tier in NYC, Mount Sinai west is a solid one. Another one is NYMC which is ok
 
anbuitachi said:
Why are NYU / mt Sinai mid tier programs? I consider these top tier.. same category as Columbia/Cornell. The only difference is Columbia does lung transplant (not important to residents IMO since fellows will be doing these for the most part. Also Columbia has more peds. But at same time their PD just stepped down after half their cardiac applicants ddidnt match.. Cornell has better regional. Sinai has more liver transplant still. NYU has more trauma)

For mid tier in NYC, Mount Sinai west is a solid one. Another one is NYMC which is ok
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Read my post again. Mt Sinai is an UPPER TIER program. NYU is a quality mid tier program. Why? Med students flock to the cushy residency program at Sinai so they require higher Step scores. Columbia and Cornell are solid as well. NYU is the laggard among the big programs but is an excellent midtier residency.
 
Most programs on FREIDA (the residency database put together by AMA) say that their average Step 1 score for current residents are 220-240. This includes NYU, North Shore-Long Island, NY Methodist, NY Presbyterian Cornell, SUNY Upstate. Mt Sinai on the other hand says their average is >240

 
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Blade I can't help but think your information is at least several years out of date. I don't know about step scores but Sinai is considered to be the least cushy residency in New York City out of the big name programs. The 4 manhattan programs all attract the same applicants though, I remember seeing the same people over and over again as well as at the other prestigious programs in the region.

As anbuitachi said, many Columbia residents did not match into cardiac fellowship at any program which isn't something I've heard at any other program. This is especially surprising for a place that prides themselves on taking their own for fellowship and advertises this to their residency applicants. I'm not sure about why that happened but it's a pretty big deal.

Columbia does do the most lungs and hearts and Sinai does do the most livers but NYU does liver, lungs, hearts. Monte is also no slouch in terms of transplant.

Center Data - OPTN

Sinai's freida information does say that their average is >240 for current residents but it also says that for hofstra. I think we can all agree that hofstra is a low tier program. Columbia and NYU's freida information do not include a step score range.
 
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Psai said:
Blade I can't help but think your information is at least several years out of date. I don't know about step scores but Sinai is considered to be the least cushy residency in New York City out of the big name programs. The 4 manhattan programs all attract the same applicants though, I remember seeing the same people over and over again as well as at the other prestigious programs in the region.

As anbuitachi said, many Columbia residents did not match into cardiac fellowship at any program which isn't something I've heard at any other program. This is especially surprising for a place that prides themselves on taking their own for fellowship and advertises this to their residency applicants. I'm not sure about why that happened but it's a pretty big deal.

Columbia does do the most lungs and hearts and Sinai does do the most livers but NYU does liver, lungs, hearts. Monte is also no slouch in terms of transplant.

Center Data - OPTN

Sinai's freida information does say that their average is >240 for current residents but it also says that for hofstra. I think we can all agree that hofstra is a low tier program. Columbia and NYU's freida information do not include a step score range.
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BLADEMDA said:
Read my post again. Mt Sinai is an UPPER TIER program. NYU is a quality mid tier program. Why? Med students flock to the cushy residency program at Sinai so they require higher Step scores. Columbia and Cornell are solid as well. NYU is the laggard among the big programs but is an excellent midtier residency.
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Oh oops.

But Yea like psai said Sinai is now least cush residency after they merged with some other hospital. I didn't realize NYU did lung transplants
 
parliamentarian said:
I think this might be old. OB and EM are quite competitive these days, and radiology not so much.
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It is definitely an old chart but radiology still has higher step scores than ob and em last time I looked. They are more competitive than they used to be but quite competitive is an overstatement. Em and anesthesia have similar step scores, around 230 but maybe that changed in the last charting outcomes.
 
Psai said:
It is definitely an old chart but radiology still has higher step scores than ob and em last time I looked. They are more competitive than they used to be but quite competitive is an overstatement. Em and anesthesia have similar step scores, around 230 but maybe that changed in the last charting outcomes.
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What’s the average step score overall these days? The numbers in that chart seem pretty low across the board
 
anbuitachi said:
Oh oops.

But Yea like psai said Sinai is now least cush residency after they merged with some other hospital. I didn't realize NYU did lung transplants
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But are Sinai residents still getting PAID like they used to for working past 4pm. If so, still cushy
 
vector2 said:
But are Sinai residents still getting PAID like they used to for working past 4pm. If so, still cushy
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Sinai residents are not paid for working past 4pm. But they are paid for working past 730pm when not on call.
With that said, i wouldn't use that to define cushy. Because if you look at the base salaries for resident for these few programs, Columbia is in the lead with the highest base salary (83k for CA3, which is 10000$ higher than Mt sinai salary of 73k). Sinai is the lowest despite their residents working the most. But Sinai does have the most moonlighting opportunities
 
With your updated data I'd say the big 4 in NYC are all good, upper mid tier programs with NYU historically the bottom of those 4: Mt Sinai, Columbia, Cornell and NYU

That translates into a Step 1 score of 235 or so to have a good shot with maybe even a 230 for NYU.
 
BLADEMDA said:
With your updated data I'd say the big 4 in NYC are all good, upper mid tier programs with NYU historically the bottom of those 4: Mt Sinai, Columbia, Cornell and NYU

That translates into a Step 1 score of 235 or so to have a good shot with maybe even a 230 for NYU.
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How do you think Montefiore/Albert Einstein stacks up as an anesthesia program?
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
How do you think Montefiore/Albert Einstein stacks up as an anesthesia program?
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I'd say lower mid tier to upper bottom tier program. That doesn't mean the training isn't good there. It clearly isn't at the level of NYU in terms of competitiveness or Step scores but that doesn't mean it won't be a good fit for the right med student.
 
BLADEMDA said:
I'd say lower mid tier to upper bottom tier program. That doesn't mean the training isn't good there. It clearly isn't at the level of NYU in terms of competitiveness or Step scores but that doesn't mean it won't be a good fit for the right med student.
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What would you say makes it that lower mid/upper bottom tier? Is it the quality of the graduating residents, the case variety, etc?
 
BLADEMDA said:
Read my post again. Mt Sinai is an UPPER TIER program. NYU is a quality mid tier program. Why? Med students flock to the cushy residency program at Sinai so they require higher Step scores. NYU is the laggard among the big programs but is an excellent midtier residency.
Click to expand...

Having a higher Step 1 average doesn't make you a higher quality program, it just means you tend to select residents who on average happened to do better on a standardized test. It says nothing about the quality of training, clinical experience, mentorship, or job/fellowship prospects.

Interviewed at all of the big 4 and ranked NYU first because I honestly think it's the best program in the city. Sinai is criminally overrated. They don't see anywhere near the clinical diversity that you get at NYU. At NYU you split your time between a world-class academic center that is a global referral center, the county hospital that started all county hospitals that accepts anyone and everyone, the VA, and a free-standing orthopedic hospital. Bellevue also sees more trauma than any other hospital in Manhattan. Not many programs can claim they rotate their residents through such diverse environments.

As a side bonus, NYU has the best location of the 4 as far as having fun in New York and by far had the happiest, friendliest residents of the Big 4.
 
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gasstudent77 said:
Having a higher Step 1 average doesn't make you a higher quality program, it just means you tend to select residents who on average happened to do better on a standardized test. It says nothing about the quality of training, clinical experience, mentorship, or job/fellowship prospects.

Interviewed at all of the big 4 and ranked NYU first because I honestly think it's the best program in the city. Sinai is criminally overrated. They don't see anywhere near the clinical diversity that you get at NYU. At NYU you split your time between a world-class academic center that is a global referral center, the county hospital that started all county hospitals that accepts anyone and everyone, the VA, and a free-standing orthopedic hospital. Bellevue also sees more trauma than any other hospital in Manhattan. Not many programs can claim they rotate their residents through such diverse environments.

As a side bonus, NYU has the best location of the 4 as far as having fun in New York and by far had the happiest, friendliest residents of the Big 4.
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Found the nyu chief
 
I interviewed at most of the NYC programs (St. Lukes/Roosevelt, Mount Sinai, Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Einstein) and had some friends who attended each, these were my impressions:

In terms of competitiveness I would say that all of them are at least the high bottom to middle of mid-tier due to the location in NYC alone and the amount of interested applications it afford them.

In terms of the general program I would lump them as follows

Columbia/Sinai in my opinion are the two best programs in NYC. Columbia offers a superior case diversity along with superior research opportunities. Sinai offers a higher level of hands on clinical training and autonomy along with the ability to significantly bolster your income moonlighting along with a generally better relationship between attendings and residents and from my impression: "happier residents". The hours definitely worsened with the merger but from people I know they still aren't anything crazy compared to any other field of medicine.

Cornell/NYU represent the other portion of the upper tier in my opinion. NYU felt like a more laid back program than anywhere else I interviewed in NYC. The above poster is correct that NYU offers the most diverse experience of clinical sites between Tisch, Bellevue, the VA, and HJD. I personally did not enjoy the time at Tisch which felt like bourgeois and production pressure city and this was a primary site. Research opportunities were less than Cornell/Columbia/Sinai but it seemed like there was effort being put into growing them. Cornell felt like it was on the verge of going through a major transition as there was some growing unhappiness regarding resident life and interactions of one of the program directors. In general I felt it wise to avoid a program in obvious flux.

St. Lukes/Roosevelt offered what seemed like good resident life with a fairly brutal intern year. Residents seemed overall happy and enjoyed the program. It has changed since the acquisition by Mount Sinai and I believe it has resulted in a fair increase in the orthopedic and regional procedures with a concomitant slight worsening in general resident hours. At this point I would be inclined to refer to it as "Mount Sinai Lite".

Einstein/Montefiore was another program in transition. They seemed to have motivation to grow the residency and overall improve resident life and case exposure. They have growing volume in pediatrics and cardiac so thats also a plus. I do not know anyone who is there currently so I cant speak accurately to much about it.

I did not interview at Downstate as they appeared to have some issues when I was applying.
 
can anyone comment on Midwest programs they interviewed at like Cincinnati, Toledo, Wisconsin, Indiana, etc.
 
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