what are the 12 lowest tier schools?

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If we were talking about law school, then one could easily argue that there are vast differences in quality between the top and bottom programs. However, US medical schools all must meet rigorous standards and thus can't exist if they continually fail to meet such standards. As for the OP's question, I admire the people who actually took the time to try and answer it. It is interesting, though, because such lists seem to influence the size of the applicant pool, which, in turn influences the stats of admitted students. Perhaps one should compile a list of the schools with the least number of applicants.
 
mahasanti said:
And just because some outside source (not me personally) ranks these schools as the bottom of the heap, doesn't mean they are bad.
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So what's your source? You've been asked for that previously and have failed to disclose it. Until you share, I think we're all going to continue to believe the pulling it out of your a&& theory.
 
Just for the record, Jefferson shows up in the top 60 both in US News and in the SDN med school rankings (which are meaningless, I know), which would place it in the top half (albeit near the bottom of it). I can name two worse schools in Philadelphia off the top of my head (hint: not UPenn), so it is certainly not in the bottom 12 in the country.
 
mahasanti said:
1. Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine
2. University of New Mexico School of Medicine
3. University of North Dakota School of Medicine
4. Albany Medical College
5. Texas Tech University
6. University of South Dakota School of Medicine
7. Southern Illinois University School of Medicine
8. University of Missouri Kansas City School of Medicine
9. St. Louis University School of Medicine
9. Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine / Chicago School of Medicine
10. New York Medical College
11. SUNY - Downstate Medical Center College of Medicine (Brooklyn)
12. Wayne State University School of Medicine
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I think the original question was an incredibly feeble and lazy attempt of ... "What US allo schools have the lowest MCAT/GPA scores?"

Although I think that this question has a very misguided opinion of the medical school admissions process behind it, the list of schools displayed have a statistical lower than average MCAT score. This does not mean that these schools produce under qualified physicians but rather they evaluate and weigh other characterstics of an application more heavily.

If you looked in the MSAR, you would realize the schools listed here have some of the lowest MCAT scores. I agree with some of schools listed but not the entire list (The last 6 or so schools shouldn't be included). If you looked carefully, you would also realize that some of these schools ONLY take instate students which would be the reason why they don't have high MCAT averages.

A lot of historically black universities and colleges have lower MCAT scores but are not meant for all applicants. They serve a different purpose and thus are more selective on other factors.
 
I can understand someone wanting to know lower tier schools to maximize his/her chances of getting into med schools, but this just reeks of someone wanting to piss off people. Stupid, stupid topic.
 
apollo12 said:
I think the original question was an incredibly feeble and lazy attempt of ... "What US allo schools have the lowest MCAT/GPA scores?"

Although I think that this question has a very misguided opinion of the medical school admissions process behind it, the list of schools displayed have a statistical lower than average MCAT score. This does not mean that these schools produce under qualified physicians but rather they evaluate and weigh other characterstics of an application more heavily.

If you looked in the MSAR, you would realize the schools listed here have some of the lowest MCAT scores. If you looked carefully, you would also realize that a lot of these schools ONLY take instate students which would be the reason why they don't have high MCAT averages .
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Not only that but because of the in-state status that most public schools use, regional "suckiness" does not mean national "suckiness" if there are a lot of "top" schools in the state. For example, people with high MCAT/GPA in Texas would go to UTSW or Baylor and not Texas Tech, thus decreasing the average, but because only Texas residents can realistically get into Tech, that's who will get in. But if you try to compare the quality of Tech to another school in the US, Tech could be MUCH MUCH better, but few OOS can get in.

See the faults of such a list? Now let's end this silly discussion, there's no such thing as a bad med school.
 
apollo12 said:
Although I think that this question has a very misguided opinion of the medical school admissions process behind it, the list of schools displayed have a statistical lower than average MCAT score.
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Actually, some of those schools like St. Louis, NYMC, and RFU have MCAT avgs of 30 - 31 with at least 9 on each section. That is not lower than average MCAT, which is 24-25.
 
I do not think the question was to rank schools based on quality, as you refered to as a bad med school, but rather MCAT scores.

Basically, there is no US school that doesn't give heavy preference to instate students and has averages below a 3.6/29 or 30. If you really care enough about exploring your options, it would be wise to sit down and actually search for qualities of a SOM that matchs your personal acheivements rather than pose such a pointless question.
 
KoreanMusicbox said:
Actually, some of those schools like St. Louis, NYMC, and RFU have MCAT avgs of 30 - 31 with at least 9 on each section. That is not lower than average MCAT, which is 24-25.
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I actually wrote that I did not agree with the last 6 schools being included but I guess you did not see that portion.

I was referring to the average MCAT scores recorded in the MSAR, the average of accepted students, not the average MCAT score of all test takers. Good Try!
 
Depakote said:
The bottom 12 schools are:

University of Wisconsin Medical School
Vanderbilt School of Medicine
VCU/MCV School of Medicine
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
Washington University School of Medicine
Wayne State University School of Medicine
Weill Medical College at Cornell University
West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine
West Virginia University School of Medicine
Western University College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific
Wright State University Boonshoft School of Medicine
Yale University School of Medicine
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lol, i love it!!!
 
mahasanti said:
Wrong!





Wrong again!

Boy, some people do really get defensive don't they...
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Nope, not defensive, since I have no reason at this point in time to be defensive. It's just an educated guess based upon the actions of the majority of SDN members who make such claims without stating their reason.
 
mahasanti said:
Just because you're going to Wayne State, you don't have to resort to name calling...

And just because some outside source (not me personally) ranks these schools as the bottom of the heap, doesn't mean they are bad. On the contrary, I'm sure these schools are excellent and can get you where you want to go. Med school is med school.

So for your ego, remember that despite the rankings, your Wayne State will make you a doctor just as much as Harvard will. Cheer up, mate!

Oh, and for the record, if you had read any of my few previous posts, you would realize that I have not prestige trolled, except for maybe once at the beginning (I was naive, what can i say). I just think it is pretty ridiculous how dang defensive people get.
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umm, I suppose you get the school I'm attending correct before letting run a rant that further cements your status as a troll.

(does UChicago let just anyone in?)
 
maestro1625 said:
umm, I suppose you get the school I'm attending correct before letting run a rant that further cements your status as a troll.

(does UChicago let just anyone in?)
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Of course not, because according to you, no med school will let just anyone in...duh...Wayne St./UChicago...same thing
 
I was hoping someone would figure out where I got these, obiviously flawed rankings, but since no one did...

http://share.studentdoctor.net/school_rankings.asp

Of course, these rankings are all done by premeds, which is pretty silly, but none the less interesting, especially since they don't directly measure MCAT/GPA. The fact that most of these schools are low MCAT schools is very interesting (and not really surprising).

What I would really like would be more medical students to fill out the amsa medical school survey!!! http://www.amsa.org/resource/cardev/surveys/medsurvey.cfm

Now this would really be useful because it would measure things that actually matter to students, like whether the professors know how to teach (and spell 🙂). Then maybe we could have rankings that actually mean something, which would really help pre-meds decide where to apply, and where not to apply.
 
Something that annoys me when people ask questions on these threads:

STOP BEATING AROUND THE BUSH AND ASK THE DAMN QUESTION!!

If you want to know rankings in terms of GPA or MCAT, ask that! (or go buy an MSAR). If you're looking for reputation, then ask that. % getting their first choice during matching? Cost? Best professors? Highest USMLE Scores? Just explain what you're getting at rather than beating around the bush. **Also, most of this information isn't available to us. As Law2doc mentioned, any ranking is gonna be arbitrary

As others have mentioned, most of these factors probably don't mean much as far as your future is concerned (when comparing allopathic schools). We all gotta do well on the USMLEs.
 
And you know what they call the person who graduates last in their class from the bottom most school?

"Doctor"

Best,
Oldie
 
Olddodger said:
And you know what they call the person who graduates last in their class from the bottom most school?

"Doctor"

Best,
Oldie
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lol, I like that, it's very motivating. 🙂
 
Ha, as far as your grades in med school, C=MD.
 
maestro1625 said:
Meharry, Morehouse, Jefferson... huh?

I know you're a newbie to this whole process, but what the...
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I guess humor is just lost on some people. See JohnnyDrama's post for clarification.


And what makes you think I'm a "newbie in this process?" When can I be an experienced veteran like you? How about after I start med school in August? 👍



streetlight said:
Or maybe it's just an excuse so you can feel better about yourself for not being able to get into those programs because of YOUR gpa/mcat
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actually my school has pretty high averages, I actually bring the GPA average down quite a bit! Gotta love those California schools! They'll just let anyone in!


what happened to DKM btw?
 
Doctor Bagel said:
All I can say is that I didn't report him, even though he so nicely called me a b*tch. Lovely poster, huh?

I can't believe this thread's still alive.
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meh, everyone takes DKM too seriously. I don't know how people can get their feelings hurt on the internet...
 
I'm not really sure this thread has a point but here are the bottom 12 ranked schools based on the SDN rankings. Keep in mind that they are pretty much worthless (the rankings).

1) Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine
2) Ponce School of Medicine
3) University of New Mexico School of Medicine
4) University of North Dakota School of Medicine
5) Albany Medical School
6) Texas Tech University
7) University of South Dakota School of Medicine
8) Southern Illinois School of Medicine
9) University of Missourii Kansas City School of Medicine
10) St. Louis University School of Medicine
11) Rosalind Franklin
12) New York Medical College

Here are the lowest ranked(not all) schools in research based on US News:

1) University of Texas - Houston
2) UMDNJ - Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
3) St. Louis University
4) Medical University of South Carolina
5) Jefferson Medical College
6) University of Vermont
7) University of Miami
8) University of Illinois - Chicago
9) Tulane University
10) University of Texas - Galveston

Here are the lowest ranked(not all) schools in primary care based on US News:

1) University of Kentucky
2) University of Kansas Medical Center
3) University of Arizona
4) Stony Brook University
5) Mount Sinai School of Medicine
6) University of Oklahoma
7) University of Texas - San Antonio
8) Loyola
9) Jefferson Medical College
10) Southern Illinois University - Springfield
11) Columbia

A lot of schools are unranked on the us news report, which means that these schools aren't really on the bottom.
 
For each ranking you listed, how many total school are in each category? are they the last 12 out of 70? 75?
 
burningsky said:
I'm not really sure this thread has a point but here are the bottom 12 ranked schools based on the SDN rankings. Keep in mind that they are pretty much worthless (the rankings).

1) Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine
2) Ponce School of Medicine
3) University of New Mexico School of Medicine
4) University of North Dakota School of Medicine
5) Albany Medical School
6) Texas Tech University
7) University of South Dakota School of Medicine
8) Southern Illinois School of Medicine
9) University of Missourii Kansas City School of Medicine
10) St. Louis University School of Medicine
11) Rosalind Franklin
12) New York Medical College

Here are the lowest ranked(not all) schools in research based on US News:

1) University of Texas - Houston
2) UMDNJ - Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
3) St. Louis University
4) Medical University of South Carolina
5) Jefferson Medical College
6) University of Vermont
7) University of Miami
8) University of Illinois - Chicago
9) Tulane University
10) University of Texas - Galveston

Here are the lowest ranked(not all) schools in primary care based on US News:

1) University of Kentucky
2) University of Kansas Medical Center
3) University of Arizona
4) Stony Brook University
5) Mount Sinai School of Medicine
6) University of Oklahoma
7) University of Texas - San Antonio
8) Loyola
9) Jefferson Medical College
10) Southern Illinois University - Springfield
11) Columbia

A lot of schools are unranked on the us news report, which means that these schools aren't really on the bottom.
Click to expand...

Meaningless because not all allo schools are ranked by USNews - these schools fall somewhere in the 60s or so, so arguably they represent the "middle tier" of all med schools, not the bottom rung on the ladder - so they may be the "lowest ranked" of the top 60 or so schools, with the implication being that there are another 40 or 50 schools beneath these...I hate the rankings and have very little use for them except to identify the schools getting all the SDN buzz...
 
mahasanti is gonna get his "little feelings hurt". lol.
 
Law2Doc said:
While it's not an "unfair" question, nobody can answer because there isn't an answer. There is no tiering system for med schools -- that is a college thing. There are a few companies (esp. USNews) that rank schools but none that I am aware of puts them into tiers and none ranks as far down the list as the bottom dozen. Thus any answer to this question is going to be totally one of (likely uninformed) subjectively driven opinion.
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This isn't really true. The Us News Premium Online has a separate list that ranks the schools in terms of hardest to easiest. That is basically what he was asking for. Here's the answer:

Washington University in St. Louis 10.5% 9.7% 11.6% 13.6% 3.84 12.2 11.4 12.6 12.5 Q
Columbia U. College of Physicians and Surgeons (NY) 4.5% N/A N/A N/A 3.78 11.9 11.2 12.1 12.1 Q
Johns Hopkins University (MD) 6.2% 5.8% 6.7% 7.1% 3.85 11.6 11.1 11.9 11.9 Q
Harvard University (MA) 4.7% 4.1% 5.4% 4.4% 3.81 11.7 11.1 11.9 12.1 R
University of Pennsylvania 4.4% 4.3% 4.5% 3.9% 3.80 11.4 10.8 11.7 11.8 Q
Baylor College of Medicine (TX) 6.4% 6.0% 6.7% 7.0% 3.80 11.3 10.6 11.7 11.6 P
Yale University (CT) 6.5% 5.3% 7.9% 6.6% 3.75 11.4 10.7 11.7 11.8 R
Vanderbilt University (TN) 6.5% 5.9% 7.3% 8.0% 3.76 11.3 10.6 11.6 11.8 Q
Cornell University (Weill) (NY) 4.5% 3.6% 5.4% 5.8% 3.72 11.4 10.8 11.6 11.8 P
Stanford University (CA) 3.1% 3.0% 3.3% 3.3% 3.71 11.4 10.5 11.8 12.0 Q
University of Chicago (Pritzker) 6.2% 6.1% 6.3% 7.3% 3.75 11.3 10.5 11.7 11.5 Q
University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 8.0% 7.1% 9.1% N/A 3.73 11.4 10.8 11.6 11.9 R
Mayo Medical School (MN) 2.4% 2.6% 2.2% N/A 3.82 10.9 11.1 10.9 10.6 P
University of California--Los Angeles (Geffen) 4.6% 4.3% 5.0% 6.9% 3.76 11.1 10.5 11.4 11.5 Q
University of California--San Diego 5.5% 5.2% 5.9% 5.6% 3.73 11.2 10.5 11.5 11.7 Q
University of California--San Francisco 4.4% 3.9% 4.9% N/A 3.75 11.1 10.4 11.4 11.6 P
Duke University (NC) 4.0% 2.6% 5.6% 10.5% 3.74 11.1 10.6 11.2 11.6 N
New York University 6.3% 6.3% 6.3% N/A 3.77 10.9 10.3 11.2 11.2 Q
Northwestern University (Feinberg) (IL) 6.5% 5.8% 7.3% 6.1% 3.71 11.2 10.7 11.3 11.6 Q
University of Pittsburgh 8.6% 8.5% 8.9% 9.1% 3.68 11.3 10.7 11.5 11.7 P
U. of Texas Southwestern Medical Center--Dallas 13.1% 13.2% 13.0% 16.2% 3.83 10.7 10.1 10.9 11.2 P
University of Virginia 8.9% 9.1% 8.7% 7.1% 3.73 11.0 10.6 11.1 11.3 P
Brown University (RI) 4.2% 4.0% 4.5% 4.1% 3.62 11.3 10.6 11.6 11.8 Q
Case Western Reserve University (OH) 8.7% 8.9% 8.5% 7.8% 3.69 11.0 10.5 11.3 11.4 Q
Emory University (GA) 8.2% 7.9% 8.4% 7.5% 3.66 11.1 10.6 11.3 11.4 P
Mount Sinai School of Medicine (NY) 5.2% 5.0% 5.3% 5.8% 3.65 11.1 10.7 11.2 11.3 Q
Ohio State University 8.9% 8.6% 9.4% 8.8% 3.72 10.8 10.4 11.0 11.1 P
University of Colorado--Denver and Health Sciences Center 9.7% 9.7% 9.6% 7.5% 3.67 11.0 10.3 10.5 10.9 P
University of Florida 9.9% 10.9% 8.9% 7.0% 3.80 10.5 10.0 10.7 10.8 N
Dartmouth Medical School (NH) 7.0% 6.7% 7.2% 7.0% 3.70 10.7 10.2 10.8 11.0 P
University of California--Irvine 7.0% 6.8% 7.2% 6.5% 3.70 10.7 10.0 11.0 11.0 Q
University of Wisconsin--Madison 8.5% 7.7% 9.5% 7.8% 3.74 10.4 9.9 10.5 11.0 P
University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 6.2% 6.1% 6.2% 7.2% 3.64 10.7 10.6 10.6 10.9 P
University of Rochester (NY) 8.6% 8.3% 9.0% 5.9% 3.66 10.6 10.6 10.3 11.0 Q
University of Southern California (Keck) 6.1% 5.4% 6.8% 5.5% 3.60 10.8 10.0 11.1 11.0 Q
Yeshiva University (Einstein) (NY) 8.4% 8.0% 8.9% 6.7% 3.70 10.4 10.0 10.5 10.8 P
University of Iowa (Carver) 10.9% 8.8% 13.5% 11.0% 3.70 10.4 10.1 10.3 10.7 P
St. Louis University 10.6% 10.0% 11.3% 7.5% 3.68 10.4 10.1 10.3 10.7 P
Stony Brook University (NY) 9.7% 9.5% 10.0% 8.1% 3.60 10.7 10.0 11.0 11.0 P
University of Miami (Miller) (FL) 7.9% 7.8% 8.0% 8.1% 3.70 10.3 10.0 10.0 11.0 P
University of Washington 6.2% 5.4% 7.2% 8.8% 3.64 10.4 10.3 10.2 10.7 Q
Georgetown University (DC) 4.3% 3.9% 4.8% N/A 3.62 10.4 10.1 10.4 10.7 N/A
Indiana University--Indianapolis 14.6% 15.2% 14.0% N/A 3.73 10.1 9.9 10.0 10.3 P
Tufts University (MA) 6.8% 7.5% 6.1% 5.8% 3.61 10.5 10.2 10.6 10.8 P
University of Alabama--Birmingham 12.9% 13.8% 11.8% 9.8% 3.73 10.1 9.9 9.9 10.3 P
University of Cincinnati 9.8% 9.8% 9.8% N/A 3.64 10.4 9.9 10.3 10.9 O
University of Connecticut 6.3% N/A N/A N/A 3.65 10.3 9.9 9.9 11.0 Q
University of Missouri--Columbia 17.5% 17.8% 17.1% 13.0% 3.77 10.0 10.2 9.7 10.2 P
Oregon Health and Science University 5.4% 4.8% 6.1% 3.9% 3.63 10.3 10.2 10.0 10.7 P
University of Maryland 7.5% 6.1% 8.9% 7.1% 3.66 10.2 10.1 10.0 10.5 P
Boston University 5.2% 4.8% 5.6% N/A 3.66 10.1 9.8 10.1 10.4 Q
Medical College of Wisconsin 7.6% 6.6% 8.8% N/A 3.72 9.8 9.6 9.7 10.2 P
UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School 11.6% 10.8% 12.5% 14.3% 3.64 10.2 9.7 10.4 10.5 P
University of California--Davis 4.8% 4.0% 5.5% 4.0% 3.60 10.3 10.0 10.0 11.0 Q
Rush University (IL) 6.0% 4.9% 7.2% 6.9% 3.63 10.1 9.9 10.1 10.4 P
University of Minnesota Medical School 9.4% 9.2% 9.6% 8.8% 3.64 10.1 9.8 9.9 10.5 P
University of South Florida 10.3% 9.8% 10.8% 9.7% 3.70 9.9 9.5 9.8 10.3 P
University of Texas Medical Branch--Galveston 8.5% 8.5% 8.4% 8.1% 3.76 9.6 9.4 9.4 10.0 P
Jefferson Medical College (PA) 6.4% 5.8% 7.1% 6.3% 3.60 10.2 10.1 10.1 10.5 Q
University of Massachusetts--Worcester 20.9% 18.5% 22.9% N/A 3.58 10.4 10.4 10.2 10.7 Q
Wake Forest University (NC) 3.9% 4.2% 3.5% N/A 3.59 10.2 10.0 10.3 10.4 P
Medical College of Georgia 14.1% 13.7% 14.5% 9.2% 3.65 10.0 9.9 9.7 10.3 N/A
University of Kentucky 13.6% 14.7% 12.2% N/A 3.69 9.8 9.5 9.8 10.1 P
Temple University (PA) 6.8% 6.5% 7.2% 6.8% 3.61 10.0 9.7 10.0 10.3 Q
University of Vermont 3.8% 2.0% 19.2% 2.1% 3.60 9.9 9.7 9.7 10.2 Q
Creighton University (NE) 6.2% N/A N/A 10.2% 3.67 9.6 9.8 9.7 10.2 P
Loyola University Chicago (Stritch) 6.1% 5.7% 6.6% 6.1% 3.60 9.9 9.7 9.8 10.2 P
Texas A&M Univ. System Health Science Center 5.4% 5.0% 5.8% 6.2% 3.74 9.3 9.0 9.0 10.0 O
University of Kansas Medical Center 14.7% 12.8% 17.2% 17.9% 3.72 9.5 9.4 9.3 9.7 Q
University of Nebraska College of Medicine 13.0% 13.0% 13.0% 8.6% 3.71 9.5 9.3 9.4 9.8 N/A
University of Toledo 11.2% 10.7% 11.9% N/A 3.58 10.0 10.0 10.0 10.0 P
University of Utah 11.5% 10.1% 14.4% 8.5% 3.65 9.7 9.5 9.4 10.1 O
Tulane University (LA) 5.2% 5.2% 5.2% 3.4% 3.47 10.3 10.0 10.0 11.0 P
UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical School 9.6% 10.3% 9.0% N/A 3.57 10.0 9.6 10.1 10.5 O
University at Buffalo--SUNY 12.4% 11.5% 13.3% N/A 3.60 9.9 9.5 9.7 10.4 O
University of Illinois--Chicago 9.9% 9.4% 10.5% 15.2% 3.57 10.0 N/A N/A N/A N/A
Drexel University (PA) 16.3% 16.8% 15.9% N/A 3.51 10.2 9.8 10.2 10.6 Q
Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center 6.4% 7.0% 5.8% 4.8% 3.64 9.6 9.5 9.4 10.0 O
University of South Dakota (Sanford) 9.9% 8.9% 11.2% 2.7% 3.65 9.5 9.5 9.2 9.8 O
Univ. of Texas Health Science Center--Houston 8.4% 9.5% 7.3% 5.1% 3.67 9.4 9.3 9.2 9.7 P
West Virginia University 8.7% 9.8% 7.4% 17.5% 3.70 9.3 9.0 9.2 9.8 O
University of Oklahoma 19.6% 21.1% 17.7% 14.1% 3.66 9.5 9.6 9.1 9.6 O
Medical University of South Carolina 16.9% 17.2% 16.6% 17.7% 3.61 9.6 9.8 9.1 9.9 O
New York Medical College 9.7% 8.3% 11.2% 8.7% 3.50 10.0 9.4 10.0 10.4 Q
SUNY--Syracuse 11.9% 11.5% 12.4% 9.5% 3.60 9.6 9.2 9.8 10.0 P
Northeastern Ohio Univ. College of Medicine 10.6% N/A N/A N/A 3.69 9.1 9.0 9.0 9.2 O
Uniformed Services Univ. of the Health Sciences (Hebert) (MD) 16.5% 18.4% 12.5% 11.7% 3.54 9.8 9.7 9.7 9.9 P
University of New Mexico 9.0% 8.4% 9.7% 9.3% 3.61 9.4 9.9 8.7 9.7 N/A
Wayne State University (MI) 15.3% 14.5% 16.3% 12.7% 3.54 9.8 9.3 9.8 10.2 O
Virginia Commonwealth University 7.8% 7.6% 8.0% 8.0% 3.50 9.8 9.4 9.8 10.2 P
George Washington University (DC) 3.4% N/A N/A N/A 3.52 9.6 9.3 9.6 9.9 P
University of Tennessee Health Science Center 18.6% 20.3% 16.5% 17.7% 3.64 9.3 9.0 9.0 10.0 O
U. of Texas Health Science Center--San Antonio 7.8% 6.7% 9.0% 6.2% 3.60 9.3 9.0 9.0 10.0 O
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences 22.3% 21.9% 22.9% 21.4% 3.63 9.3 9.5 8.9 9.6 O
University of South Carolina 7.1% 6.5% 8.1% 9.8% 3.59 9.3 9.5 8.8 9.7 P
East Tennessee State Univ. (Quillen) 11.4% 10.4% 12.8% 7.6% 3.57 9.3 9.5 9.0 9.4 O
Florida State University 10.4% 9.3% 11.6% 7.2% 3.64 9.0 9.0 8.4 9.1 O
Michigan State University 4.9% 4.7% 5.1% 4.3% 3.51 9.4 9.1 9.2 9.8 O
Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science (IL) 6.1% 6.7% 5.4% 6.1% 3.45 9.7 9.0 10.0 10.2 P
University of Arizona 32.1% 26.7% 38.0% N/A 3.59 9.4 9.2 9.1 9.9 P
University of North Dakota 32.2% 29.7% 34.6% 46.9% 3.62 9.2 9.2 8.7 9.5 O
Wright State University (OH) 7.0% N/A N/A N/A 3.57 9.1 9.2 8.7 9.4 O
East Carolina University (Brody) (NC) 15.4% N/A N/A N/A 3.60 9.0 9.2 8.5 9.2 P
University of Louisville (KY) 14.5% 14.9% 14.0% 18.3% 3.52 9.3 9.3 9.0 9.5 O
Des Moines U. Osteopathic Medical Center (IA) 15.3% 14.5% 16.2% 8.6% 3.65 8.6 8.3 8.5 9.1 O
Southern Illinois University--Springfield 14.4% 13.1% 15.6% N/A 3.53 9.0 9.4 8.6 9.1 O
U. of N. Texas Health Sci. Center (Texas Col. of Osteopathic Medicine) 10.6% 10.8% 10.4% 487.5% 3.52 9.0 8.7 8.8 9.5 O
Col. of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific (Western University) (CA) 19.7% 19.7% 19.8% 18.5% 3.49 9.0 8.7 9.2 9.6 O
UMDNJ--School of Osteopathic Medicine 6.3% 4.5% 7.8% 7.2% 3.50 8.8 8.6 8.5 9.2 O
University of Missouri--Kansas City 24.2% 24.6% 23.9% 22.0% N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine (Midwestern University) 11.6% N/A N/A N/A 3.45 9.0 9.0 9.0 9.0 R
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine 12.9% 13.4% 12.6% 10.2% 3.53 8.5 8.4 8.5 8.7 O
A.T. Still University of Health Sciences (Kirksville) (MO) 15.1% 15.4% 14.6% 13.4% 3.48 8.7 8.7 8.3 9.1 O
Oklahoma State University 29.8% 31.2% 28.3% 21.8% 3.62 8.3 8.4 7.6 8.2 N
Mich. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine 15.5% 14.1% 16.9% 9.8% 3.51 8.4 8.3 8.1 8.8 O
Ohio University 6.1% 5.8% 6.3% 4.6% 3.55 8.1 8.4 7.7 8.1 O
Touro Univ. College of Osteopathic Medicine (CA) 10.8% N/A N/A N/A 3.37 8.8 8.5 8.8 9.0 R
U. of New England Col. of Osteopathic Medicine (ME) 8.1% 8.4% 7.7% 3.7% 3.34 8.8 8.5 8.0 8.8 R
Nova Southeastern U. Col. of Osteopathic Med. (FL) 24.3% 25.5% 23.2% N/A 3.43 8.5 8.7 8.2 8.8 M
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine (PA) 10.0% 10.3% 9.8% 7.4% 3.40 8.3 8.4 7.7 8.5 N
Howard University (DC) 6.2% 6.2% 6.1% 7.2% 3.34 8.2 8.2 7.8 8.7 O
Edward Via Virginia Col. of Osteopathic Med. 12.3% 16.2% 8.6% 7.9% 3.50 7.5 7.8 7.1 7.7 Q
West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine 25.5% 28.7% 22.1% 17.3% 3.47 7.6 7.8 7.1 7.9 N
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine 9.5% 8.0% 10.7% 7.3% 3.30 8.0 8.2 7.6 8.3 O
Pikeville Coll. School of Osteopathic Medicine (KY) 19.8% 19.8% 19.7% 9.0% 3.30 7.3 7.7 6.9 7.4 N/A
 
Kriyaban said:
This isn't really true. The Us News Premium Online has a separate list that ranks the schools in terms of hardest to easiest. That is basically what he was asking for. Here's the answer:

*snip*
Click to expand...

The real problem with this list is that your state of residency matters so much at many of these schools. For example, the UCs are completely closed off for non-CA applicants simply because there are so many applicants (sure you COULD get in, but its just plain hard). Texas schools are just about off limits. some Midwestern schools are off-limits. The list gets longer and longer to the point where there are only a few schools where you can actually stand a chance with "average" stats.
 
TheRealMD said:
The real problem with this list is that your state of residency matters so much at many of these schools. For example, the UCs are completely closed off for non-CA applicants simply because there are so many applicants (sure you COULD get in, but its just plain hard). Texas schools are just about off limits. some Midwestern schools are off-limits. The list gets longer and longer to the point where there are only a few schools where you can actually stand a chance with "average" stats.
Click to expand...


This is a good point that I haven't seen made in this thread yet. I think you could throw Colorado into this category as well (one med school for the fairly populous state). The other thing to keep in mind is that gaining admission at med schools, at any med school, becomes harder each year, as average MCAT and GPA continue to go up.

The other thing to keep in mind is that it all starts over once you hit med school when it comes to competing for residency. At least, this seems to be the CW - that board scores, grades, etc, matter more than the prestige of your med school. This isn't written in stone, of course, and those at Harvard or WashU will naturally match into top residencies, given that they are bright and motivated students. But kids from the lower-tiered or unranked schools, who were semi-lazy in college but turn it on in med school, will also be competitive at top residency spots if their scores and grades match up.
 
phoenix1 said:
I thought it was interesting that last year RF was listed with a 29 MCAT (median?). In this year's MSAR, RF has a 31! It jumped two points in a year? Wow. Also, UIC went up from 30 to 31 as well, but Rush and Loyola are still listed at 30. Never thought RF would have a higher MCAT than Loyola or Rush!

Oh, and I'm not RF bashing. I've heard it's a great school, and I've definitely included them in my application.
Click to expand...

If I had to guess, I'd guess that RFs mean would be 28 or less. I don't believe the 31.
 
gary5 said:
If I had to guess, I'd guess that RFs mean would be 28 or less. I don't believe the 31.
Click to expand...

Maybe Rosalind is accepting low GPAs in order to get higher MCAT scores. Maybe MCAT = 31 and GPA = 3.0.
 
burningsky said:
Here are the lowest ranked(not all) schools in primary care based on US News:

1) University of Kentucky
2) University of Kansas Medical Center
3) University of Arizona
4) Stony Brook University
5) Mount Sinai School of Medicine
6) University of Oklahoma
7) University of Texas - San Antonio
8) Loyola
9) Jefferson Medical College
10) Southern Illinois University - Springfield
11) Columbia

A lot of schools are unranked on the us news report, which means that these schools aren't really on the bottom.
Click to expand...


Stony Brook??? Are you for real??? 😱
 
Isn't this thread really about which med schools are statistically easiest to get into?

In that case, the OP should be looking at the "competitiveness" ranking of schools based upon the matriculants' entry stats, not upon the school's research rank or whatever.

US News
What are the hardest and easiest medical schools to get into?
Click to expand...
(this requires premium access)

...the last 12 allopathic schools on the list are...

Ranking: n = lowest

n-11. Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science
n-10. University of Arizona
n-9. University of North Dakota
n-8. Wright State University
n-7. East Carolina University (Brody)
n-6. University of Louisville
n-5. Southern Illinois University - Springfield
n-4. University of Missouri - Kansas City
n-3. A.T. Still University of Health Sciences
n-2. Oklahoma State University
n-1. Ohio University
n. Howard University

Note that US News' ranking is based upon an index comprised of admissions rate, gpa, and mcat
scores.

Edit: A lot of the lower ranked schools are state schools, so they will be difficult to get into anyway for OOS applicants.

Edit x 2: Someone already posted the complete list in post #83.
 
gary5 said:
If I had to guess, I'd guess that RFs mean would be 28 or less. I don't believe the 31.
Click to expand...

MSAR median composite mcat scores are completely misleading. you can't add up the median scores for each individual section and say it's the median composite score.
 
burningsky said:
I'm not really sure this thread has a point but here are the bottom 12 ranked schools based on the SDN rankings. Keep in mind that they are pretty much worthless (the rankings).

1) Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine
2) Ponce School of Medicine
3) University of New Mexico School of Medicine
4) University of North Dakota School of Medicine
5) Albany Medical School
6) Texas Tech University
7) University of South Dakota School of Medicine
8) Southern Illinois School of Medicine
9) University of Missourii Kansas City School of Medicine
10) St. Louis University School of Medicine
11) Rosalind Franklin
12) New York Medical College

Here are the lowest ranked(not all) schools in research based on US News:

1) University of Texas - Houston
2) UMDNJ - Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
3) St. Louis University
4) Medical University of South Carolina
5) Jefferson Medical College
6) University of Vermont
7) University of Miami
8) University of Illinois - Chicago
9) Tulane University
10) University of Texas - Galveston

Here are the lowest ranked(not all) schools in primary care based on US News:

1) University of Kentucky
2) University of Kansas Medical Center
3) University of Arizona
4) Stony Brook University
5) Mount Sinai School of Medicine
6) University of Oklahoma
7) University of Texas - San Antonio
8) Loyola
9) Jefferson Medical College
10) Southern Illinois University - Springfield
11) Columbia

A lot of schools are unranked on the us news report, which means that these schools aren't really on the bottom.
Click to expand...

US News intentionally does not rank the bottom half of US MD schools (this is probably to encourage the bottom of the barrel to participate without fearing being labeled, for example, one of the bottom 12 medical schools in the country). I haven't actually done this, but I am almost certain that if you looked up each of the schools on the SDN bottom 12 list, you will not find any rankings listed for either research or primary care on US News - meaning a ranking of less than ~ 70 for both. Any school that does not make the cut for US News and has a bad reputation on SDN can be considered in a lower tier, but they are still well above DO and Caribbean schools.

For the record - it's pretty impressive to show up in both the top 70 research and top 70 primary care US News lists, as many schools in the top of each category do not make the cut for the other.
 
trichomoniasis said:
I guess humor is just lost on some people. See JohnnyDrama's post for clarification.


And what makes you think I'm a "newbie in this process?" When can I be an experienced veteran like you? How about after I start med school in August? 👍





actually my school has pretty high averages, I actually bring the GPA average down quite a bit! Gotta love those California schools! They'll just let anyone in!


what happened to DKM btw?
Click to expand...

all I can say is that there's been a lot of misunderstood irony on this thread in many directions... including mine 😳
 
Hey Everyone,
I looked through both US News lists and compiled a list of schools that they have absolutely nothing good to say about. I included the Caribbean schools that US News included. (Although I don't think any of them submitted their info...)

Here are the schools that fall in that category (excluding any school with "Osteo" in it and schools that did not supply information)...

Albany Medical College
Creighton University
Drexel University
Florida State University
George Washington University
Howard University
Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine
New York Medical College
Ohio University
Ponce School of Medicine
Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Sci.
Rush University
SUNY, Syracuse
Temple University
Texas A&M University System Health Sci. Center
Texas Tech University Health Sci.s Center
UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical School
University at Buffalo, SUNY
University of Louisville
University of Missouri, Kansas City
University of South Alabama
University of South Florida
University of Tennessee Health Sci. Center
University of Toledo
Uniformed Services University of the Health Sci.s (Hebert)
Wayne State University


The following schools did not provide information (and that is generally a sign that they would be at the bottom):


Eastern Virginia Medical School
LSU School of Medicine, New Orleans
LSU School of Medicine, Shreveport
Loma Linda University
Marshall University (Edwards)
Meharry Medical College
Morehouse School of Medicine
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine
SUNY, Downstate Medical Center
University of Mississippi
University of Nevada, Reno
University of Puerto Rico School of Medicine
Universidad Central del Caribe
Mercer University

The following do not show up on primary or research lists, but have a ranking for 1 or 2 specialties (AIDS, Drug/Alcohol Abuse, Family Medicine, Geriatrics, IM, Peds, Rural, Women's Health):

A.T. Still University of Health Sci.s (Kirksville)
University of Hawaii, Manoa (Burns)
University of North Dakota
University of South Dakota (Sanford)
Virginia Commonwealth University
West Virginia University
East Tennessee State University (Quillen)
Mercer University*
  • (#16 for Family Medicine, even without giving info to US News)
 
johnnydrama said:
Just for the record, Jefferson shows up in the top 60 both in US News and in the SDN med school rankings (which are meaningless, I know), which would place it in the top half (albeit near the bottom of it). I can name two worse schools in Philadelphia off the top of my head (hint: not UPenn), so it is certainly not in the bottom 12 in the country.
Click to expand...

knowing a girl who only got into her relatively easy to get into state school and jefferson, i would have assumed that jefferson was a lower tiered school/easier OOS to get into, just based on this anecdotal evidence

Law2Doc said:
While it's not an "unfair" question, nobody can answer because there isn't an answer. There is no tiering system for med schools -- that is a college thing. There are a few companies (esp. USNews) that rank schools but none that I am aware of puts them into tiers and none ranks as far down the list as the bottom dozen. Thus any answer to this question is going to be totally one of (likely uninformed) subjectively driven opinion.
Click to expand...

based on the posts thus far, this is clearly the most correct answer
 
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