What are the top 3 med schools in the Philippines as of "NOW"?

[WaZoBia]

i asked my MD sis in nyc, she graduated from up manila med sch
her choices were: up, uerm, ust

my personal choices are: uerm, feu, st lukes, cim

but i definitely want a ONE yr rotation at PGH
is that possible even if you're from other med schools?

st lukes runs a 5 year medical program (internship is included in the curriculum) this means internship in st lukes is mandatory for their med students.

as far as internship at PGH goes, it is possible but competitive.

all the best.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[kittycrinkles]

KittyKrinkles

Magkano na nga uli ang tuition per sem ng UPCM ngayon? Ilang percent yung price hike?

i'm not sure. i think it's around 20K for the new ones. price hike started last year.

 

[freyja]

how does the tuition work for international students. somebody posted that he's paying $1K every year, I think. And what is the deal with the $6-15k donations?

 

[tantrum]

how does the tuition work for international students. somebody posted that he's paying $1K every year, I think. And what is the deal with the $6-15k donations?

The $6-15K donation is a one-time fee. However, I think you will spend more than $1K a year as some private med schools are already costing PhP80,000 PER SEM.

 

[freyja]

It's definitely something to think about then. even with the donation and living expenses, education in the philippines is a lot cheaper since the cheapest here in Ontario, CA for med school is 10 grand a year (I think) and that doesn't include books, residence and other expenses. It's not as expensive as med school in the states but it's not insignificant either. What I am afraid of, if I decide to go back to the Philippines for med school, is what if I eventually want to decide to practice medicine here or even do my residence, I will have to do it as an IMG. And it is hard to match as an IMG. I think I'm leaning towards staying where I am.

 

[tantrum]

It's definitely something to think about then. even with the donation and living expenses, education in the philippines is a lot cheaper since the cheapest here in Ontario, CA for med school is 10 grand a year (I think) and that doesn't include books, residence and other expenses. It's not as expensive as med school in the states but it's not insignificant either. What I am afraid of, if I decide to go back to the Philippines for med school, is what if I eventually want to decide to practice medicine here or even do my residence, I will have to do it as an IMG. And it is hard to match as an IMG. I think I'm leaning towards staying where I am.

If you are planning to practice in Canada, do your best to study there as it is much more difficult for an IMG to get residency spot in Canada. Most Canadian IMG go to the US for their residency before going back to Canada or many just stay in the US.

 

[WaZoBia]

If you are planning to practice in Canada, do your best to study there as it is much more difficult for an IMG to get residency spot in Canada. Most Canadian IMG go to the US for their residency before going back to Canada or many just stay in the US.

tantrum's absolutely right, a lot more hurdles for canuck IMGs. it is possible though but i think IMGs from eire, SA, the UK, Oz and NZ have a better shot so you might also wanna consider med schools in those countries.

all the best.

 

[freyja]

thanks guys! I. I'm actually more likely to stay here in Canada to avoid meddling relatives in the Philippines plus the fact that I have more options. Although, I would love to get out of the country for a while and Australia does ring a very nice tune in my head. NO SNOW!

 

[feurn2006]

Great forums!i was just wondering if you guys have any idea how I could take the NMAT here in the US?

 

[amrmd]

Ever since and even according to The Commission on Higher Education only 3 schools are considered "Centers of Excellence". This is based on the history of passing rates not just a recent board examination.

1. UNIVERSITY OF THE PHILIPPINES-COLLEGE OF MEDICINE
2. UNIVERSITY OF SANTO TOMAS-FACULTY OF MEDICINE AND SURGERY
3. CEBU INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE

The only one in the "Center of Development" category which means very good but needs extra refinement is XAVIER UNIVERSITY.

And according to the ECFMG , the Philippine medical schools with the highest passing rates are come from UST and UP.

If you want to go to a medical school with a TIGHT budget but yet provides quality education...try UP and PLM..they are formidable schools. You have to make sure you have a good NMAT score though.

If you want to go to a medical school in a private institution that will still provide a great education...go with UST ,CIM, FEU, UERM. NMAT cutoff for UST is 65...i dunno with the rest

If you want to attend a medical school just for the sake of attending it...then any university will do (be it the COE's or COD's or regular schools)..what matters is you pass the class and pass the boards

 

[beefdelight]

its nice to see so many people aspiring to be a doctor. 🙂 guys/future colleagues, pls do practice here in the phils. naman hehe.. wawa naman mga tao d2 bcoz of the decline of md's.

 

[ravensong]

amen to that...

it's kinda sad to see so many doctors leaving the country...

 

[bleudsky]

they have their own reasons for doing so..

 

[chatu11]

wow, i finally found people to talk to,who i can relate with.. yipee🙂 i'm soo happy. These forums gets me more inclined..

*Med*

here here we come!

 

[phlipsquad]

St. Luke's is considered one of the Philippines' best hospital. Yes, their medical school is quite new, and has around 30-35% board exam flank rate!!! 😎

you must be a plm alumnus/student to have so much pride in PLM. My past post failed to mention plm, im sorry to say because i am talking about med school perspectives for those who are eventually going to apply to the USA. I have heard alot about UP,UST, and UE being the best in getting doctors to practice here in America. Im sorry to say but i have not heard graduates from that particular school(PLM) practicing here in the USA. I assume since it is a government school and most of its graduates eventually practice in the Philippines. I need some more info on this.... I could be wrong.In terms of those who wants to practice IN the philippines, i think its an excellent school.

For the rest of those concerned about schools that get you to practice here in the states... check out the website DOKTORKO.COM..you can check up on the docs who are practicing here in america...it gives their specialties and where they graduated.The most graduated from UP and UST. Hope this helps those who wanna practice in the states.

P.S. I know PLM is a great school (i've heard),and in MY opinion definely in the top 5 and even probably in the top three, but in terms of applying to america, i still need some proof. sorry. SO I have to say UP and UST will give you a better chance of practicing in the US. BOTH are well recognized in many residency programs here in the states.My previous boss, who happened to be a residency director in pulmonary here in new york city accepted 6 filipino med graduates....All from UP and UST.

As what many people had emphasized from previous posts,philippine board is not a good indicator of how the students will fare in the USMLE. I myself am really scared if ill be prepared for my step 1! I dont know if UST has prepared me enough..i only hope so. In the end, the school can only provide that vehicle to success, but it up to the INDIVIDUAL to drive it.




i miss posting here. been too busy with med school.haha. Good Luck everyone!

 

[tantrum]

PLM is a very good school. The reason few of them will practice in the United States is that they are Manila scholars. They pay little tuition but in return, there is a PAYBACK in terms of service. They are REQUIRED to serve in Manila for a few years so few of them can leave the country. Most of the students cannot afford other schools so applying for USMLE is out of the question for them.

 

[Pogi MD]

Hello.

Am new here.

I am also an alumnus of the prestigious yet underdogged PLM-CM. IMHO, PLM-CM is a GREAT school to consider for your post-grad medical studies. It has top notch instructors, IMHO, that's it sad to say.

First of all, it's facilities are crappy, cadavers are crappy, teaching materials are crappy, administration is crappy (but the PEOPLE behind it are the best, if you get the drift). But what do you expect from a school subsidized by the corrupt government of manila by the Atienza administration (maganda nga ang kalsada, bulok naman ang sistema). The training hospital for clerical training is also crappy (Ospital ng Maynila), but in this institution you WILL find the best doctors that CAN and WILL HEAL patients in a very, sad to say, sub-par hospital, which is, sad to say, again subsidized by the city of Manila. You will die in clerkship (in my time), but believe me you will be born again with enough knowledge than residents from other private institutions, that's how good the experience is if you study in PLM (mind you of the REQUIRED 6 months to 2 YEARS payback).

But again, that's it sad to say. In the topic of US-based medicine, there are many PLM alumni who are currently practicing abroad, but believe me they are STRUGGLING doctors because they are still financially unstable, not clinically and medically insufficient. That's why they chose PLM in the first place, because of the low tuition fee (which is currently about 10 to 15k per sem nowadays, basic, bisem) compared to other private institution (FEU and UST, about 40k to 50k per sem, basic, bisem,... WTF!). Even my entire clan don't have that kind of money.

In response to the 100% passing rate in the Feb boards, keep in mind that 13 of those 20plus persons are repeaters, so if that counts to anything, i don't fu*#@ng care. I still am a PLM alumnus, and the board exam was and will never be a gauge of how good you are as a medical student, it just gauge how hard you reviewed for that exam and how lucky you were to review the questions that came up in the boards. It's still up to you if you want to pass the boards or not.

So, finally, the top three med schools for me are...

1. UP-CM (I was also an undergraduate at UP Manila, so, hehehe...)
2. PLM-CM
3. UST-FMS

 

[kittycrinkles]

^ what can you say is the future for PLM now that Lim is the new mayor?

 

[Pogi MD]

I can only hope for the best...

Good luck with Fred Lim cleaning up the mess Atienza did in PLM. Hehehe...

And a stricter admission policy please.

 

[heartDoctor]

do you guys know the tuition fee's for uerm, fatima, ust, st lukes, and feu?


🙂

 

[heartDoctor]

how can I apply at PLM? what's their NMAT cut off score?


thanks🙂

 

[MDego008]

TOP Medical School for me:

1. UP Medicine
2. UST
3. CIM

Watching for: ATENEO

For those who base their top performing med schools on board exam results, use the AUGUST board exam result please. Dun nakikita kung sino magaling at hindi sa February (where most of those who failed the August exam took). 90-100% of students from the top medical schools (UP, UST) took their board exam in August. So sino na lang ba ang nagtetake ng February Board Exam? Hehehe. At sa August din nakikita kung sino magaling, kung sino prepared at confidentmagtake ng board exam given less than 5 months to prepare!

When you present evidence for your arguement, check the quality of it. Hindi basta may evidence OK na.

 

[Saipan]

90-100% of students from the top medical schools (UP, UST) took their board exam in August. So sino na lang ba ang nagtetake ng February Board Exam? Hehehe. At sa August din nakikita kung sino magaling, kung sino prepared at confidentmagtake ng board exam given less than 5 months to prepare!

When you present evidence for your arguement, check the quality of it. Hindi basta may evidence OK na.

This thread is laughable. You might as well ask the corner trike driver for his opinion as read this thread.

Please notice that MDego008 doesn't offer any evidence to back up his claim that 90-100% (100%...Really?...seems highly unlikely) of students from the top medical schools took their board exams in August. This is the sort of rhetoric that can be expected in this nonsensical thread.

Remember, if you are a mediocre student, then you will probably continue to be a mediocre student whether you attend a big Manila school or a small provincial school.

 

[bleudsky]

MDego008, alam mo ba kung anu-ano ung mga pinagsasabi mo?

For those who base their top performing med schools on board exam results, use the AUGUST board exam result please...... At sa August din nakikita kung sino magaling, kung sino prepared at confidentmagtake ng board exam given less than 5 months to prepare!

whether August or February, the local physician licensure exams is NOT a good gauge of which medical school is the best in the country. as 1 colleague mentioned, the boards is a "big bully". taking the med boards is a test of determination to be a licensed physician and preparedness to face 1200 questions (12 subjects, 100 questions each). ndi porque matalino, garantisado nang papasa sa Aug boards. sure, bragging rights of being "the best medical school" may happen when the results of the licensure exams come out (laging meron nyan that even some medical & non-medical students alike "bash" other schools - bato bato sa langit, ang tamaan huwag magagalit) but it's just temporary. one medical school is not the best medical school for eternity.

....hindi sa February (where most of those who failed the August exam took). 90-100% of students from the top medical schools (UP, UST) took their board exam in August. So sino na lang ba ang nagtetake ng February Board Exam? Hehehe.

False. not all those who take the Feb boards are second-takers.

when you want to take the boards is an OPTION. preparing for it is/are based on personal style of studying/reviewing &/or other priorities (i.e. long vacation, USMLE then boards, other medical or family problems, etc.). no one will force you when you should take it (except for Fatima). if you think that you don't have enough/sufficient time to prepare for the Aug boards or if (at least) 2 months is not enough, you can take it on Feb. it's your own decision.

second, there are some internship-related situations/reasons (make-ups, LOA, etc.) which force those bright and not-so-bright doctors to go for the Feb boards instead. if they miss the deadline set by APMC & PRC (for the filing of application for the licensure exams), they have no choice.
advantage na ung more time to review. the disadvantage is may tendency na tamarin or mainip.

lastly, some medical graduates (aka midyear interns) personally chose to start their internship by november & not purely because of intellectual reasons. technically, they cannot take the August boards coz they still haven't completed their 1 yr internship. thus, they can take the Feb boards (provided they have completed all requirements).

gets? please don't make any generalizations/statements which are based on "i think" or "i guess", and among matters you haven't yet been involved in.

if you're just a MD student, please concentrate on your medical studies muna!

 

[bleudsky]

guys, the results of the local licensure exams just came out..

to those wondering which schools got the highest # of passers, these are:

1. UP Manila College of Medicine - 141/142 (99%)
2. UST Faculty of Medicine & Surgery - 298/327 (91%)
3. FEU NRMF - 155/188 (82%)

congrats to my newly licensed colleagues!

GO PBL!!

 

[dexter85]

do you guys know the tuition fee's for uerm, fatima, ust, st lukes, and feu?


🙂

don't know bout the other schools, but ours in ust is already 84K+ per sem from 79K+ last year. it keeps on ballooning year after year. ironic, the number of med students keeps on increasing also, now its more than 500 freshmen from 460+ last year. i hope there's still a good screening method for admitting applicants. but i guess the real screening is when you're in med school already, survival of the fittest(s).

anyway, congrats to the newly licensed doctors. congrats to ustfms' last batch of pbl, you succeed to defy the fears of many. the 91% passing rate is a comeback from the last years' 80+. hope it will continue to rise (or at least be maintained). 😀

 

[kittycrinkles]

shucks sayang naman yung isa sa UPCM.

i hope in our class we finally get the elusive 100%.

 

[bleudsky]

anyway, congrats to the newly licensed doctors. congrats to ustfms' last batch of pbl, you succeed to defy the fears of many. the 91% passing rate is a comeback from the last years' 80+. hope it will continue to rise (or at least be maintained). 😀

thanks. 🙂 we just made those anti-PBL professor/s wish they never cursed our curriculum during our first 3 yrs in ust. niweys, there's no such thing as a perfect curriculum.

lots of thanks to dra alora (she was the dean who implemented the PBL), dra bongala, dra coronel & to the rest of pro-PBL profs for believing in us.

 

[tantrum]

IF we are just talking about local board performance, these schools should be congratulated as well (other than UP,UST,FEU) for their good or improving passing percentage:

1. CIM- 100% (54/54)
2. MSU - 93% (28/30)
3. PLM - 89% (76/85)
4. St. Luke's - 84%
5. St. Louis U - 82%
6. UERM - 80% (the used to pass in the 50%)
7. WVSU - 79%

 

[sinus rhythm]

Top Med SChhols For me:

1.UP-CM and UST-FMS
2.cebu institute of Med, UERM, SLU

UST's exellence in medicine dates back not only from the result of the previous august/february board exams but from way, way older times. Talk about more than 100 years of reputation. UP is excellent, very tough screening, (in fairness, very very good ang performance dito ng mga former
UP students na ndi nakapasok sa UPCM).

In UST, easy to enter the med school, pasok ka ng med school as a PASAWAY and it will turn you to a very good doctor! Bar None! =) Ched and PRC has their records! =) Love ur own school with some support from known facts! Yeah!

I like this forum, sobrang edukado ang mga tao! Mabuhay doctors!

 

[melbruinMD]

Top Med SChhols For me:

1.UP-CM and UST-FMS
2.cebu institute of Med, UERM, SLU

UST's exellence in medicine dates back not only from the result of the previous august/february board exams but from way, way older times. Talk about more than 100 years of reputation. UP is excellent, very tough screening, (in fairness, very very good ang performance dito ng mga former
UP students na ndi nakapasok sa UPCM).

In UST, easy to enter the med school, pasok ka ng med school as a PASAWAY and it will turn you to a very good doctor! Bar None! =) Ched and PRC has their records! =) Love ur own school with some support from known facts! Yeah!

I like this forum, sobrang edukado ang mga tao! Mabuhay doctors!

what exactly is a pasaway? i've heard that term a few times before..

 

[sharmei17]

Hi! I'll be a freshman this June but i still haven't chosen the school that's best for me. I've read a lot of info. about those med schools from the thread of "filipino med schools" which really had helped me a lot. My greatest dilemma now is to know the difference of these top 3 schools as of "NOW". A lot of things changes as time passes. A reply from that thread was posted 2 years ago but I need some FRESH news. Of course asking those schools will be a whole lot easier but an experience is still the best. I know that career still depends on the student but schools really have factors. I also care about each's reputation. Any fresh graduates here? pls.? help? I got one week left to decide. NMAT is not a problem.

1. UP Manila
2. UST
3. Our Lady of Fatima University - Valenzuela
(OLFU topped the Medical Board Exam)🙂

 

[sharmei17]

what exactly is a pasaway? i've heard that term a few times before..

pasaway is kinda naughty... i don't know if that's the exact word but the idea is there🙂

 

[sinus rhythm]

what exactly is a pasaway? i've heard that term a few times before..

Hmmm... Pasaway... Roughly Equivalent to loko/ naughty/ barubal/ iwa moto/ makulit... This wordf just popped out 4 or 5 years ago i think.

 

[kittycrinkles]

pasaway is Pinoy slang for a person who breaks rules and tries to make his own rules to compensate for his lifestyle or what he prefers.

i can't find an exact English term, but that's the best i can think of. 😀

PGH just turned a 100 years! hooray!

here's the link to the results of the recently concluded Philippine Physician Licensure exams: clicky.

for the the names of students in the Top 10, here they are:
1.
Ma Christina Cedilla Jovida, Our Lady of Fatima University-Valenzuela City -- 86.92
2.
Ansarie Pedrosa Salpin, West Visayas State University-La Paz -- 85.92
Sherilyn Alvaran Tuazon, University of Santo Tomas -- 85.92
3.
Diana Rivadelo Tamondong-Lachica, University of the Philippines-Manila -- 85.75
4.
Marjorie Co Golekoh, University of Santo Tomas -- 85.58
5.
Aries Caesar Patdu Gavino, University of the Philippines-Manila -- 85.50
6.
Ronald Artuz Luna, University of the Philippines-Manila -- 85.33
7.
Jeffrey Palarca Mendoza, University of Santo Tomas -- 85.25
8.
Lowe Lebosada Chiong, University of the Philippines-Manila -- 85.17
Lily Mae Quevedo Dacay, Cebu Doctors' University -- 85.17
9.
Ronald Alvin Villanueva, University of the East Ramon Magsaysay Memorial Medical Center -- 85.08
10.
Carmela Gan Gonzales, University of the Philippines Manila -- 85.00
Razel Carlos Siron-Gonzales, Angeles University Foundation -- 85.00

and lemme just say that UPCM's Top 1 got the third rank and she became a mom during internship year. astig! 😀

 

[bleudsky]

re: OLFU... i don't like the idea that they dictate/tell their students when they should take the local boards or not, based on their performance on the mock boards. they're very much concerned about taking the number 1 spot (individually speaking), not in terms of school ranking. i know someone who graduated yrs before me but still hasn't taken the boards.

niweys, announcement to my batchmates. we have a thanksgiving mass tomorrow, aug 29, 2007, 4 pm at the sanctissimo rosario church, ust campus. (the same way we had a mass prior to the boards, last july 25)..

again, congrats to us, UST Medicine & Surgery Class 2006... 91%!!!

 

[sinus rhythm]

again, congrats to us, UST Medicine & Surgery Class 2006... 91%!!![/quote]


-haayyy... always makes me proud...

 

[sharmei17]

Hi..
With UERM, go to their website, they claim to be in the top three along with the reputable UP and UST. Check www.uerm.ph/ and then click on education... and look at college of medicine.



UERM: Great school academic-wise, their campus is small though and does not look too attractive. They have access to the MRT or LRT...one of those....I guess that's a plus.

UST: Why its Great? Oldest medical school in the Philippines, academics has always been great. I know of alot of surgeons in the states who are UST grads and some in quite competitive specialties. Biggest Plus....Campus is BEAUTIFUL....very ornate and the buildings in the university are historical works of art.. I could be a little biased...nevertheless, because I am going to UST.

UP: The best! Accepts 0-2 foreigners per year. Very competitive.

St. Luke's: They have one of the best medical centers in the Phils, but their med school is quite new....still good though.

FEU: Also a great school...has a good reputation in the Phils.

you're right.
UST is the best and one of the most (or the most) beautiful university here.🙂. I maybe biased also coz I am planning to enter in that school.

 

[hnerypaoho]

-hi guys! it's been a while since my last message. well, you know how toxic med school could be. especially at FEU. we hardly have our own social life now. well, for the new students who have decided to go into med school , i just like to you guys to know that is not the school who makes a good doctor. coz acing the board exam doesn't tell you how good he/she could be in actual practice. but it is the one who really has the willingness to learn and care for the patient. so i like to congratulate those who passed the board. i just hope they could make a good and caring doctor.

 

[bleudsky]

^ thank you.. 🙂

now i can prescribe... haha!

 

[jgmr89]

ill be graduating this school year with a three-year course..until now, i'm still undecided where wil i take my proper med..wat medical schools can u suggest? do u think admu-asmph is a good school?

 

[sinus rhythm]

ill be graduating this school year with a three-year course..until now, i'm still undecided where wil i take my proper med..wat medical schools can u suggest? do u think admu-asmph is a good school?

admu-asmph is i good school? of course nobody knows. The newest med school and seems promising. May not be a good school (they have to prove it first after 5 or years from now) or may also be a good school (ateneo is a good university). probably one of my choices if it's already present when i graduated college. Try mo. =)

 

[sinus rhythm]

ill be graduating this school year with a three-year course..until now, i'm still undecided where wil i take my proper med..wat medical schools can u suggest? do u think admu-asmph is a good school?

admu-asmph is i good school? of course nobody knows. The newest med school and seems promising. May not be a good school (they have to prove it first after 5 or 6 years from now) or may also be a good school (ateneo is a good university). probably one of my choices if it's already present when i graduated college. Try mo. =)

 

[endograsper]

i am here now in the country been trying to settle down
and applying around...

my opinion so far:

• dlsu campus...i loved it! i have lots of parking for my car...and very near golf course for my stress reliever... never checked dorms yet... i wish they have condos instead... im too old for a dorm 😕
• fatima campus... i was afraid of the mcarthur hwy construction...but i like the school's very good passing rate in board exams... i wonder if they can also teach me how to pass usmle steps 1 to 4😀 ... and hey they have clerkship in brooklyn...that means i can continue partying in nyc again after just three years👍
• st lukes... has a great hospital...perhaps great minds too🙄
• up manila... still the greatest! but too tight competition. i wonder how my sister made it there. im so jealous imagine my savings if i only pay 20k php ughh freaking unfair... die now die!
• feu... seems to have intellectual ambience and comfortable space. love ittttt! 😍
• uerm... i am afraid to cross that highway!😱 please give me a pink bridge over there... no parking also... but why am i so inlove with uerm
• ust... awesome school! reminds me a lot of my parents who both went to ust... but i dont feel like wearing a skirt... is that okay???

...will take nmat this dec 9 then off to usa again
for family xmas... i miss usa but i have things to do here in phils

also, i am dual citizen... fil-am
i can go to school as filipino student doctor right?

my world is so aseptic... i barely know immigration stuff.

 

[endograsper]

i dont like crappy cadavers no fun!

 

[bleudsky]

[*]ust... awesome school! reminds me a lot of my parents who both went to ust... but i dont feel like wearing a skirt... is that okay???

i don't think so. part of the lady's uniform is wearing a knee-length white skirt (from 1st yr to 4th yr). the only chance you'll get to wear white pants is during your internship (that is, if u decide to undergo internship here).

as for the other schools, that i don't know.

 

[endograsper]

st lukes runs a 5 year medical program (internship is included in the curriculum) this means internship in st lukes is mandatory for their med students.

as far as internship at PGH goes, it is possible but competitive.

all the best.

thank you

 

[endograsper]

i don't think so. part of the lady's uniform is wearing a knee-length white skirt (from 1st yr to 4th yr). the only chance you'll get to wear white pants is during your internship (that is, if u decide to undergo internship here).

as for the other schools, that i don't know.

thank you for the info

 

[kittycrinkles]

for pgh, keep in mind that it is a government hospital... more patients, but less budget.

going to med school here has its pros and its cons.

 

[dolfenal]

St. luke's college of medicine now requires applicants to have an NMAT score

of at least 90%👍! Same as UP. 😀Astig di ba?! But i must admit the extra

year for internship sucks! Imagine getting stuck in the same hospital for 2

years (clerkship & internship) 👎mastering the art of being an excellent

medical transcriptionist. Yes, as in dakilang secretary! Kumusta naman ang

tone-toneladang paperworks!!! Where is the learning in that???