What are your thoughts on realistic returns from the S&P 500?

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Our family of 4 live in a ~2000 sqft home under air (4BR/2BA)... Half of our kitchen cabinets are empty. 1 BR is also empty. I was saying the other day how would I furnish that place if it was 3000 sqft. Just furnish it with a bunch of things that I will probably never use.
This is financial wisdom. I am surprised how many people have not figured this out.

What people don't realize is that our society is designed in a way to turn people into uncontrolled consumers. The smart people snap out of it at some stage of their life.

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At some point, you have to enjoy your life though. I cringe at the idea of “living like a resident” as an attending. Yes it’s necessary for some with extreme debt but for others it’s overkill
 
At some point, you have to enjoy your life though. I cringe at the idea of “living like a resident” as an attending. Yes it’s necessary for some with extreme debt but for others it’s overkill
You are misunderstanding what I have been saying; you and the other guy.

Enjoying life is not about buying things to impress others...like the ugly LV purses. Think about it, why do most people buy expensive cars? To impress others! Who benefits when you buy an expensive Mercedes? Mercedes does! You just get stuck with a hunk of metal that will be completely depreciated in six years.

I would rather spend money on a vacation or some other experience that will last me a lifetime.

Broke people continue to buy things of no value and because their money basically goes into somebody else's pocket, they don't generate wealth in the process.

Truly smart people don't buy LV products...they invest in LV stock!
 
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If one has a big family it’s probably necessary. I live alone in a 1300 square foot apartment and it’s too small for my liking. If I had a gf/wife living with me I would definitely move somewhere bigger and that’s not even mentioning kids
I spent the first 6 years of my married life in a 625 ft^2 then a 1000ft^2 apartment. The average home size 30 years ago was 1600 square feet, now it is 2600, and family size hasn’t gotten bigger.

I want you to live in whatever condition you want, but it is important to realize the difference between a want and a need. It is ok to want and like nice things. I like nice things. I do have priorities that focus a good chunk of my disposable income on obtaining assets that will gain me wealth.
 
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I spent the first 6 years of my married life in a 625 ft^2 then a 1000ft^2 apartment. The average home size 30 years ago was 1600 square feet, now it is 2600, and family size hasn’t gotten bigger.

I want you to live in whatever condition you want, but it is important to realize the difference between a want and a need. It is ok to want and like nice things. I like nice things. I do have priorities that focus a good chunk of my disposable income on obtaining assets that will gain me wealth.
What has changed then that make people want to live in big houses? Is it the idea of YOLO?
 
What has changed then that make people want to live in big houses? Is it the idea of YOLO?
House are not made to benefit the people; houses exist to benefit the banks.

Bigger houses = bigger profits for the banks. That's the truth.

I'm not a big Grant Cardone fan but he has a point. The house is a terrible investment.
 
What has changed then that make people want to live in big houses? Is it the idea of YOLO?
I would guess a mix of change in societal attitudes towards “normal“ and credits. Easy access and expectation of longer term credit. Now people don’t even think that it is normal to pay a car off, much less a car. Shoot, fast food restaurants didn’t used to take credit cards.

Also, it is so easy to see “normal” people with big fancy houses, expensive/new cars. It used to be magazines and catalogs, now it is on the internet we look at hours a day. Marketing companies, especially debt marketers, are incredibly sophisticated.
 
You are misunderstanding what I have been saying; you and the other guy.

Enjoying life is not about buying things to impress others...like the ugly LV purses. Think about it, why do most people buy expensive cars? To impress others! Who benefits when you buy an expensive Mercedes? Mercedes does! You just get stuck with a hunk of metal that will be completely depreciated in six years.

I would rather spend money on a vacation or some other experience that will last me a lifetime.

Broke people continue to buy things of no value and because their money basically goes into somebody else's pocket, they don't generate wealth in the process.

Truly smart people don't buy LV products...they invest in LV stock!
You speak with great authority about something you almost, almost understand. It's really funny. Personal finance is personal. Value is not solely a math problem and involves non-monetary judgement. You recognize that when you say you would rather go in a vacation. That's great aside from the fact that vacation is temporary and "doesn't generate wealth" and "goes into someone else's pocket."

The same argument you use about a temporary vacation versus a nice car can go both ways. The fact of the matter is that you're dismissive of some decisions because you don't like them. Your experience on a vacation is of value to you. The experience someone gets enjoying a nice car is of value to them.

You also still don't get that understanding the definition of rich and wealthy isn't the problem here. I have a finance degree and MBA. I have a firm grasp about that but sure keep telling yourself the issue is others not understanding what you are saying lol. I'm financially literate and don't ask silly questions and then say "you guys just don't get it."
 
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You speak with great authority about something you almost, almost understand. It's really funny. Personal finance is personal. Value is not solely a math problem and involves non-monetary judgement. You recognize that when you say you would rather go in a vacation. That's great aside from the fact that vacation is temporary and "doesn't generate wealth" and "goes into someone else's pocket."

The same argument you use about a temporary vacation versus a nice car can go both ways. The fact of the matter is that you're dismissive of some decisions because you don't like them. Your experience on a vacation is of value to you. The experience someone gets enjoying a nice car is of value to them.

You also still don't get that understanding the definition of rich and wealthy isn't the problem here. I have a finance degree and MBA. I have a firm grasp about that but sure keep telling yourself the issue is others not understanding what you are saying lol. I'm financially literate and don't ask silly questions and then say "you guys just don't get it."
Becoming wealthy does not require a finance degree. That is common knowledge. The mere fact that you think having an MBA makes you "smarter" about generating wealth completely discredits you now.

To quote the great Warren Buffet: "Investing is simple but not easy." Wealth generation is more about discipline than it is about knowledge or making a lot of money.

You sound like somebody who invests in crypto.
 
Becoming wealthy does not require a finance degree. That is common knowledge. The mere fact that you think having an MBA makes you "smarter" about generating wealth completely discredits you now.

To quote the great Warren Buffet: "Investing is simple but not easy." Wealth generation is more about discipline than it is about knowledge or making a lot of money.

You sound like somebody who invests in crypto.
You're clearly a troll. Nice straw man though
 
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You should know that warren buffet started with a considerable loan which is probably equivalent to like a few hundred million today. He didn’t get to where he is by not buying designer clothing lol
 
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Ok man. You're just frustrated because I'm smarter than you and I don't have an MBA lol.
You're tilting at windmills here, man. You can misconstrue whatever you want if it makes you feel better. You have repeatedly used logical fallacies. You are not posting in good faith and putting words in my mouth. What's the point?
 
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You're tilting at windmills here, man. You can misconstrue whatever you want if it makes you feel better. You have repeatedly used logical fallacies. You are not posting in good faith and putting words in my mouth. What's the point?
Dude just stop. You don't even sound smart.
 
You should know that warren buffet started with a considerable loan which is probably equivalent to like a few hundred million today. He didn’t get to where he is by not buying designer clothing lol
Provide a link to your source lol.
 
His father was a wealthy, known congressman. Of course they had money. In terms of outside capital, he started with at least 105000 which is equivalent to like 3000000 when accounting for inflation and that’s not even including the money his own family put in. IIRC his aunt gave him a million when he was still early into investing in companies
 
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His father was a wealthy, known congressman. Of course they had money. In terms of outside capital, he started with at least 105000 which is equivalent to like 3000000 when accounting for inflation and that’s not even including the money his own family put in. IIRC his aunt gave him a million when he was still early into investing in companies
LOL, very entertaining.
 
You are misunderstanding what I have been saying; you and the other guy.

Enjoying life is not about buying things to impress others...like the ugly LV purses. Think about it, why do most people buy expensive cars? To impress others! Who benefits when you buy an expensive Mercedes? Mercedes does! You just get stuck with a hunk of metal that will be completely depreciated in six years.

I would rather spend money on a vacation or some other experience that will last me a lifetime.

Broke people continue to buy things of no value and because their money basically goes into somebody else's pocket, they don't generate wealth in the process.

Truly smart people don't buy LV products...they invest in LV stock!
I don't even understand the point of this thread. You asked a fairly rudimentary question, and have spent the entire thread bouncing between topics, telling people how they're wrong, and attempting to drop some supposed knowledge bombs on all these know-nothings. Why are you here, and who cares what other people like if they can afford it while still building enough wealth to achieve their financial goals?
 
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Jesus this is a painful thread/argument. Personal finance is just that - personal, tailored to your needs and costs of living. What works for a family medicine doc in Arkansas is gonna be different than say, a GI like me in the NYC suburbs. Pretty sure the family Med doc in AR is gonna be more financially comfortable. Don’t sweat the returns on the S&P, buy tranches of stock regularly and maybe splurge some during dips, either learn about specific stocks (or options trading if you like gambling, because tbh it’s a ton of fun) or investing in things like real estate, and figure out what works for you

tl,dr, yolo your attending paycheck on options on the latest meme stock from /r/wallstreetbets
 
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The dude is an unscrupulous shill who wants you to use actively managed funds but of course there is more about his character that I won't get into here. In general, his advice is for people with no self control and making 50k a year. It doesn't really fit our unique situation and career timeline. I could write a lengthy screed about this guy.

Please do! I'd love to hear some specifics!
 
Jesus this is a painful thread/argument. Personal finance is just that - personal, tailored to your needs and costs of living. What works for a family medicine doc in Arkansas is gonna be different than say, a GI like me in the NYC suburbs. Pretty sure the family Med doc in AR is gonna be more financially comfortable. Don’t sweat the returns on the S&P, buy tranches of stock regularly and maybe splurge some during dips, either learn about specific stocks (or options trading if you like gambling, because tbh it’s a ton of fun) or investing in things like real estate, and figure out what works for you

tl,dr, yolo your attending paycheck on options on the latest meme stock from /r/wallstreetbets
I think you and the others are missing the point. You're coming close, but still missing.

You don't become wealthy from your income. That's the point I was getting at. That also ties into consumerism hence my example of the ugly Louis Vuitton bags.

The family medicine vs. gastroenterology example is irrelevant. It comes down to BEHAVIOR and DISCIPLINE.

If you have both then you can put your money in those investments that hopefully get you in the 10-12% range and even with an FM salary, you can sit back and watch that passive income add up and generate wealthy for you.

That's why I had asked how much do you can expect your returns to earn from the S&P 500.

A lot of you guys are still stuck at the idea of money and how you spend it is personal. This conversation is about way more than money in the literal sense.
 
It sure is. If only that's what he was saying and where he left it. It still doesn't excuse his grifting and it doesn't make it applicable to any physician once they graduate past figurative kindergarten of financial education.

The advice isn't really nuanced for our situation once you get past the obvious idea that you should probably save some money and not spend it all lol.

I personally enjoy listening to Dave Ramsey. I agree that there is next to zero nuance. It is cut and dry, "If you do this, you WILL be successful" without apologies or excuses. Keeps me motivated to not be stupid with my money.

You don't have to agree with him to appreciate the fact that "you should probably save some money and not spend it all" is 80% of the solution when it comes to being financially successful. He promotes good financial BEHAVIOR which does most of the heavy lifting. A small amount of knowledge can go a long way with good behaviors, while all the knowledge in the world won't get you anywhere if you lack any financial discipline and spend more than you make your whole life.

I can't imagine ever calling him for advice. I already know what he'd tell me, and I don't care because I know what I want to do with my money.

And I'm curious why you call him a grifter? He's a business-man first.
 
I personally enjoy listening to Dave Ramsey. I agree that there is next to zero nuance. It is cut and dry, "If you do this, you WILL be successful" without apologies or excuses. Keeps me motivated to not be stupid with my money.

You don't have to agree with him to appreciate the fact that "you should probably save some money and not spend it all" is 80% of the solution when it comes to being financially successful. He promotes good financial BEHAVIOR which does most of the heavy lifting. A small amount of knowledge can go a long way with good behaviors, while all the knowledge in the world won't get you anywhere if you lack any financial discipline and spend more than you make your whole life.

I can't imagine ever calling him for advice. I already know what he'd tell me, and I don't care because I know what I want to do with my money.

And I'm curious why you call him a grifter? He's a business-man first.
Gee man, first you mock me and say you don't understand the point of the thread and then you literally agree with me that Dave Ramsey has good advice lol.
 
Gee man, first you mock me and say you don't understand the point of the thread and then you literally agree with me that Dave Ramsey has good advice lol.
I still hold to that mockery. But I wanted to follow up and inquire as to the reason (s)he hates Ramsey so badly.
 
You are misunderstanding what I have been saying; you and the other guy.

Enjoying life is not about buying things to impress others...like the ugly LV purses. Think about it, why do most people buy expensive cars? To impress others! Who benefits when you buy an expensive Mercedes? Mercedes does! You just get stuck with a hunk of metal that will be completely depreciated in six years.

I would rather spend money on a vacation or some other experience that will last me a lifetime.

Broke people continue to buy things of no value and because their money basically goes into somebody else's pocket, they don't generate wealth in the process.

Truly smart people don't buy LV products...they invest in LV stock!
1) Not a guy

2) I am not misunderstanding you. What I'm saying is that quality things cost money. If a really nice pair of shoes costs $200 but will last 5 years, that is better than buying a not so nice pair of shoes that cost $50 but will only last a year--but you need the capital to buy the higher quality in the first place. So, people with more money are going to be the ones buying the higher quality items. Does this translate to a LV purse? Maybe. I don't do purses, so I don't particularly care. But buying a nice pair of jeans, some quality skin care products, etc, I could see. For cars? Many people want to be environmentally conscious, so want to buy hybrid or electric cars... which cost more money. Is buying a luxury car in this class? No, but buying a Tesla may be.

But I can also buy (some of) those things while still working towards wealth because I make sufficient income (and have kept my lifestyle reasonable) such that I am not living paycheck to paycheck. And those who have enough to live comfortably for the rest of their lives may choose to enjoy the experience of a luxury car over going to Europe for vacation every year, for example.

Basically, there are people who are keeping up with the Jones. Then there are those who are working to build wealth but also recognize that we only have one life to live and don't see a reason to build generational wealth.
 
1) Not a guy

2) I am not misunderstanding you. What I'm saying is that quality things cost money. If a really nice pair of shoes costs $200 but will last 5 years, that is better than buying a not so nice pair of shoes that cost $50 but will only last a year--but you need the capital to buy the higher quality in the first place. So, people with more money are going to be the ones buying the higher quality items. Does this translate to a LV purse? Maybe. I don't do purses, so I don't particularly care. But buying a nice pair of jeans, some quality skin care products, etc, I could see. For cars? Many people want to be environmentally conscious, so want to buy hybrid or electric cars... which cost more money. Is buying a luxury car in this class? No, but buying a Tesla may be.

But I can also buy (some of) those things while still working towards wealth because I make sufficient income (and have kept my lifestyle reasonable) such that I am not living paycheck to paycheck. And those who have enough to live comfortably for the rest of their lives may choose to enjoy the experience of a luxury car over going to Europe for vacation every year, for example.

Basically, there are people who are keeping up with the Jones. Then there are those who are working to build wealth but also recognize that we only have one life to live and don't see a reason to build generational wealth.
Who are you? The "other guy" was the Dave Ramsey hater.
 
1) Not a guy

2) I am not misunderstanding you. What I'm saying is that quality things cost money. If a really nice pair of shoes costs $200 but will last 5 years, that is better than buying a not so nice pair of shoes that cost $50 but will only last a year--but you need the capital to buy the higher quality in the first place. So, people with more money are going to be the ones buying the higher quality items. Does this translate to a LV purse? Maybe. I don't do purses, so I don't particularly care. But buying a nice pair of jeans, some quality skin care products, etc, I could see. For cars? Many people want to be environmentally conscious, so want to buy hybrid or electric cars... which cost more money. Is buying a luxury car in this class? No, but buying a Tesla may be.

But I can also buy (some of) those things while still working towards wealth because I make sufficient income (and have kept my lifestyle reasonable) such that I am not living paycheck to paycheck. And those who have enough to live comfortably for the rest of their lives may choose to enjoy the experience of a luxury car over going to Europe for vacation every year, for example.

Basically, there are people who are keeping up with the Jones. Then there are those who are working to build wealth but also recognize that we only have one life to live and don't see a reason to build generational wealth.
I read your post and I want to answer this because yes, you too are misunderstanding this issue.

What I was referring to was "consumerism." As Americans and as humans we are conditioned to become unhinged consumers. This is what keeps people poor and prevents their money from growing.

You are using examples of $200 shoes. High school kids are buying $200 sneakers right now. People my age who are residents spend $500-$800 for designer shoes and it only goes up from there. Designer shoes are nice but nobody needs them. $50 is on the opposite end of the spectrum. I would not expect someone with a college degree to buy $50 shoes.

I used LV bags as an example because they cost a ridiculous sum of money and they do absolutely nothing to generate wealth yet people buy them supposedly to impress people about how much money they have. It's quite ironic. The people at LV know how to market and they understand consumer behavior and just exploit it. If you have $10 million in assets, I highly doubt you will be drooling over the newest LV bag. You would rather get that $10 million to $25 million. That's how the wealthy think.

My argument regarding consumerism is that you have to snap out of it. You need to be able to look at an LV purse and say "It's ugly and it has no utility." When you can do that, that's when you will notice that you will have more money and assuming you are disciplined with your investing, that money can then grow.

According to White Coat Investor, a lot of doctors don't even have $1 million dollars and I find that very concerning.

Some people think that doctors have celebrity money and that is just not true. However, if you have financial literacy, you denounce consumerism, and you can think long term, then I think every doctor should be able to retire with $10 million at minimum while still buying "quality" things.

My definition of quality things might be different than yours however. A nice European trip is money better spent for me than it is buying a Mercedes or an ugly ass LV bag.
 
What’s even the point of retiring with 10 million dollars? By the time you retire, you’re already old. Obviously you need enough to maintain quality of life but no need to not enjoy buying things just to retire with an extra digit on net worth.

OP, are you a premed or medical student?
 
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What’s even the point of retiring with 10 million dollars? By the time you retire, you’re already old. Obviously you need enough to maintain quality of life but no need to not enjoy buying things just to retire with an extra digit on net worth.

OP, are you a premed or medical student?
I think this is out of your knowledge base right now man. The stuff that I have been talking about is rather basic financial speak for anybody who knows anything about investing and parking their money in the stock market.

For any investment savvy individual who has a doctors income, $10 million is really a low end figure so that right there tells me you don't know much about this topic if you think it is "too much." I know financially smart doctors who have $60-80 million right now and they are not even at retirement age. So my goal of $10 million seems paltry in comparison.

You're also asking me if I am premed or a medical student which again has nothing to do with this topic. I could be an MD/Ph.d. and that wouldn't make a difference either. You either know about money or you don't and you won't learn about it in medical school.
 
What’s even the point of retiring with 10 million dollars? By the time you retire, you’re already old. Obviously you need enough to maintain quality of life but no need to not enjoy buying things just to retire with an extra digit on net worth.

OP, are you a premed or medical student?
They're a premed.



Personally, I'm in the second year of an MS biomed program and the first year was essentially the first year of medical school.
 
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What’s even the point of retiring with 10 million dollars? By the time you retire, you’re already old. Obviously you need enough to maintain quality of life but no need to not enjoy buying things just to retire with an extra digit on net worth.

OP, are you a premed or medical student?

Not necessarily. Many on this forum are on the FIRE track and may be there in their 30s-40s. In this scenario, you generally have to over-accumulate to ensure you have enough to last a lifetime.
 
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What’s even the point of retiring with 10 million dollars? By the time you retire, you’re already old. Obviously you need enough to maintain quality of life but no need to not enjoy buying things just to retire with an extra digit on net worth.

OP, are you a premed or medical student?
Well said! lol
 
Yes, meaning premed. You have not yet matriculated into med school.
Eh, not exactly.

Anyway, if you want to be a wise guy you would notice that this is an "interdisciplinary" forum.

Do you know what that means?
 
There are really two choices everyone makes, which is called their economic time preference.

1. High time preference: Spend now, i.e. consumerism, enjoy life as you're going along. Maybe take on debt to fuel your current spending.

2. Low time preference: Save, look toward the future, maybe retire early.

This is a spectrum of course, and there is no right answer, it's just based on whatever personal philosophy and preferences one has.

To the original topic of this discussion: S&P500 has gone up around 14% a year for the past decade. It happens that the currency supply has also increased by around 14% a year on average. S&P500 is a great market for monetary inflation, which is your inflation rate if you're an investor or someone who wants to stay or be wealthy.

The stock market is about to potentially give a "kiss-of-death" signal, so be safe everyone.

Not financial advice.
 
There are really two choices everyone makes, which is called their economic time preference.

1. High time preference: Spend now, i.e. consumerism, enjoy life as you're going along. Maybe take on debt to fuel your current spending.

2. Low time preference: Save, look toward the future, maybe retire early.

This is a spectrum of course, and there is no right answer, it's just based on whatever personal philosophy and preferences one has.

To the original topic of this discussion: S&P500 has gone up around 14% a year for the past decade. It happens that the currency supply has also increased by around 14% a year on average. S&P500 is a great market for monetary inflation, which is your inflation rate if you're an investor or someone who wants to stay or be wealthy.

The stock market is about to potentially give a "kiss-of-death" signal, so be safe everyone.

Not financial advice.
I hear that we're about to come up on another "lost decade." Oh well, not the end of the world. Just have to ride it out.
 
I think this is out of your knowledge base right now man. The stuff that I have been talking about is rather basic financial speak for anybody who knows anything about investing and parking their money in the stock market.

For any investment savvy individual who has a doctors income, $10 million is really a low end figure so that right there tells me you don't know much about this topic if you think it is "too much." I know financially smart doctors who have $60-80 million right now and they are not even at retirement age. So my goal of $10 million seems paltry in comparison.

You're also asking me if I am premed or a medical student which again has nothing to do with this topic. I could be an MD/Ph.d. and that wouldn't make a difference either. You either know about money or you don't and you won't learn about it in medical school.
Not to belabor the point but doing a formal post bacc and going DO rather than MD is probably the epitome of what Ramsey would call a bad financial decision considering the cost of post baccs and exorbitant tuition at DO schools
 
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Not to belabor the point but doing a formal post bacc and going DO rather than MD is probably the epitome of what Ramsey would call a bad financial decision considering the cost of post baccs and exorbitant tuition at DO schools
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According to White Coat Investor, a lot of doctors don't even have $1 million dollars and I find that very concerning.

Some people think that doctors have celebrity money and that is just not true. However, if you have financial literacy, you denounce consumerism, and you can think long term, then I think every doctor should be able to retire with $10 million at minimum while still buying "quality" things.

My definition of quality things might be different than yours however. A nice European trip is money better spent for me than it is buying a Mercedes or an ugly ass LV bag.

I have always said that most doctors can put themselves in a position to retire in 15 yrs. Investing only 6k/month will get you 2.5 mil in 15 yrs with the average 11% S&P500 return.

Physicians like GI and heme/onc who basically have a $$$ printing machine can invest 12k/month while enjoying a nice lifestyle will have 5 mil.

Different story if you are divorced and your spouse takes you to the cleaners.
 
I have always said that most doctors can put themselves in a position to retire in 15 yrs. Investing only 6k/month will get you 2.5 mil in 15 yrs with the average 11% S&P500 return.

Physicians like GI and heme/onc who basically have a $$$ printing machine can invest 12k/month while enjoying a nice lifestyle will have 5 mil.

Different story if you are divorced and your spouse takes you to the cleaners.
That's right but most people don't have the knowledge. It's not something that happens overnight. You have to be taught about money and compounding.

I know many doctors who, while they don't have any bad debts, spend about what they earn. You can never become wealthy that way.

Investing $6K will require a lot of discipline for the average person. Not so much for someone who knows the numbers.

You are being optimistic at 11% though. I still do my calculations at 8%.
 
That's right but most people don't have the knowledge. It's not something that happens overnight. You have to be taught about money and compounding.

I know many doctors who, while they don't have any bad debts, spend about what they earn. You can never become wealthy that way.

Investing $6K will require a lot of discipline for the average person. Not so much for someone who knows the numbers.

You are being optimistic at 11% though. I still do my calculations at 8%.
 
No, I agree with that.

I'm also calculating taxes, fees, and accounting for inflation. Even after those deductions, I still think 9-10% is not unrealistic.

It's nice to look at a portfolio of $10 million but I want to know what I have "access" to.
 
I read "the millionaire next door" today so I can see where MS2023 is coming from.

Having said that, telling everyone they're wrong and that you know 'how it's done', before you've done it yourself, is another form of "big hat, no cattle"

p.s. for someone starting their saving/investment later in life (like physicians), their SAVINGS RATE is far more important than their %returns. Paraphrasing W.C.I. here.
 
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I read "the millionaire next door" today so I can see where MS2023 is coming from.

Having said that, telling everyone they're wrong and that you know 'how it's done', before you've done it yourself, is another form of "big hat, no cattle"

p.s. for someone starting their saving/investment later in life (like physicians), their SAVINGS RATE is far more important than their %returns. Paraphrasing W.C.I. here.
My parents have their investments. Same principles. I mean that's how I learned. That money goes to me. I'm just going to add to what is already there so just trying to see what the long term outlook looks like.

My dad has been getting 15% for the last five years. He tells me just calculate everything at 8% going forward and I want to know why so that's why I asked.

Regarding savings, you can only save so much though. At some point, you have to inquire about % returns.
 
Dave gives sound advice...

I am sorry. I don't get why an upper middle class family of 4 with an household income of 200-250k/yr would need a house > 3000 sqft.

I'll bite on this one. I am in a competitive referral-based specialty and bought a huge and gorgeous house in a great location to be able to entertain large groups including referrings. It has been a huge success and the house has easily paid for itself through practice-growth.
 
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I'll bite on this one. I am in a competitive referral-based specialty and bought a huge and gorgeous house in a great location to be able to entertain large groups including referring. It has been a huge success and the house has easily paid for itself through practice-growth.
That's great for you but that's not most people.

Most people do not need a big house. It's just a waste of money. If you don't like it when I say it, listen to almost any financial genius online. Dave Ramsey included.

Houses barely keep up with inflation and you are throwing money away on taxes, utilities, and upkeep.
 
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