What are your thoughts on these incomes?

[Doctorfish]

In this video, the dentist talks about earning about $200,000 as a dental associate! He says that isn’t too far from reach and that he himself earned $300,000 as an associate in a rural area. Even with an indeed search I see promised ranges from $160,000-390,000 in a lot of these corporate offices. So why is it that people say being an associate = no money? I feel as though $200,000 is quite a bit of money.. even $150,000! And considering a situation where student loan debt is less than $200,000, why would I risk my money in opening a practice if I can make $200,000 guaranteed? After all, the reason I got into dentistry wasn’t for money. But I get the notion that you’re “poor” from a lot of people on SDN if you work as an associate and I just want to see if you guys still feel this way

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[allDAT]

Most associates don’t make 200k. Most are holding down 2 associateships making 130-180k. There are associateships out there where you can make big bucks, but 250k-300k is not the norm for a general dentist (that’s about 1M in collections per year, which would be an office collecting at least 1.25 M with hygiene and those are way above average offices).

The range: $160,000-390,000 is commonly advertised by PDS and comfort and other corporates. These can often be a draw against future earnings instead of a normal salary. So if you don’t produce enough, you owe the money back, and it’s usually garnished from your paycheck.

Associates make 25-35% of collections depending on location. Average office collects less than 800k.

 

[PerioDont]

Most new grad dentists are making 120-150k as associates.

However, ultimately YOU make your own destiny. You can decide to work 80 hours a week in Rural Alaska and make 400k your first year out.

You can decide you want to do the complicated dentistry i.e. all molar root canals, all surgical extractions and implants etc and make much more.

I know its tough to determine this a pre-dent but really all income levels of dentists are very much influenced by their personal life goals, time/location flexibility, and skill set.

I spoke today to a public health dentist, he is making around 90k a year. However he barely does anything in this place. He has had literally zero patients in the last two days and just sat in the chair and browsed reddit. He gets paid a salary based on him showing up, not production.

He comes in at 8, leaves at 11:30 to go home for lunch, comes back at 1 and stays till 4pm. On 'busy' days he will see five patients. for him, it is all about the lifestyle. He is also doing public health loan repayment which goes 35k for him tax free to his loans.

On the flip side, another person I bought a 1.2 million dollar office one year out of school. Works 7 days a week, and now has expanded the office significantly. He makes 500k+ a year, though most is due to his business savvy as compared to dental skills.

Personally, I would much, much rather be an owner than an associate. I can't stand the idea of someone else telling me what to do, when to come in, and what materials to use. I am in the top 1% most educated people on the planet, why would I want a boss? just my opinion. Your income can also double while doing the same amount of dentistry as an associate. Of course there are stresses associated with owning.

bottom line: you will control your own life. make it count!

 

[2TH MVR]

1st graduate. Decide where you are going to practice. Find an associateship (PP or Corp) in that area with the idea that it most likely will be temporary. Once you are living and working in THAT area .... then you can examine your options.

1. Are you happy in that area (town, city, rural, urban, etc)?
2. Are you happy with the associateship dynamics/compensation?
3. Living and working in a specific area allows you to do more "Hands-on" research on other associateships, partnerships, or ownership (start up vs buy).

Just RELAX. You have TIME. It's usually beneficial to associate for the 1st 6-18 months anyway. Realize that associating for a private practice will give you more dental business exposure. Associateship in a Corp provides less business exposure.

With TIME and experience ..... you will KNOW what you need to do.

 

[teefdr]

I shadowed a 2019 grad in Chicago, he makes $220k and it's his first job. So possible

 

[PerioDont]

I shadowed a 2019 grad in Chicago, he makes $220k and it's his first job. So possible

No one is saying it is impossible. As a pre-dent though, make your financial plans in the worst case scenario i.e you will be making 120k.

If you are about to graduate and get a job, set your goals high and go out there and you can exceed 220k in many areas. It will just be a lot more challenging, but the door is open to anyone with a dental license to have a very nice income.

 

[LaughingGas]

Because at the end of the day, you are jus an employee. Your work life can change at any time within the contract by the owner. You can given a unmoral, unethical situation but not unlawful. As an owner, chances are, you will make more than 200k. Even if you make the same 200k, you will have more business write offs and tax benefits that associates don't have. That alone in a year can give you benefit of anywhere from 20-60k estimated.
As others said, you also have to consider lifestyle. More rural you go, there is potential to earn more. But will you be happy?. Single guy/girl in the middle of nowhere, not even able to match on dating app or uber not even running the town.
A lot to consider. You have plenty of time. Money is important but there are so many more things in life to consider.

 

[Mauricio45]

Agreed. If I made +200K or even +300K in the middle of nowhere but single and no kids, I would be sad and depressed. More things to consider than just $$$.

 

[P7898]

Not impossible with an AEGD under your belt. I know a couple of people with solid AEGDs in the 190-200k first year income range everywhere.

 

[beannaithe]

There are outliers to the average dentist wage. Those who make a ton of money will brag about it. People closer to average and below won't talk about money. Money as an associate comes from a really good percentage, grinding out procedures or likely, both. Learning to grind procedures (fillings, crowns, etc) well, predictably, and with quality takes time. Sure you can make $250k as an associate.

How many days are you working? What's your schedule like? How many chairs do you run? How's the quality of the work? How's your quality of life? Do you like your job? There is SO much more than how much is in your paycheck.

 

[Screwtape]

$200-300k is very doable as an associate in the right place working 4 days a week. IMO associate pay tops out in the $300s unless you are getting some type of total office production percentage or in a crazy niche. Now a large caveat is an associate needs to work A LOT harder to get that income compared to an owner.

 

[kashyranz]

as a d3 I spoke to heartland rep, she said the average 1st year doc was making 183 with a base of either 100k/120k and 25% collections. its possible just need to be willing to relocate and be a dedicated student of the game

 

[Screwtape]

as a d3 I spoke to heartland rep, she said the average 1st year doc was making 183 with a base of either 100k/120k and 25% collections. its possible just need to be willing to relocate and be a dedicated student of the game

Yeah that sounds in the range. And to just add to my point above. My office runs around 50% OH. So I am effectively paid 50% collections + net hygiene revenue. And then business deductions add up too. Ownership >>> associateship