What body parts in OMM lab

[SLC]

Okay, first, it's "ladies."

Dang, you got me. But in my defense, it's late, and I've been studying for 14 hours for a CardioPulmonary exam in the morning. My brain is leaking from every orifice I have.

Second, you wear this in class, for OMM? That's sweet.

Yes, that's what we wear, it's not that sweet. We do the same for our Doctoring class (which shares a day with OMM) to make exams as easy as possible (we use each other for Physical Exam too, save the invasive/sensitive stuff).

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[Lawgiver]

Can gay guys request only female partners?

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Can gay guys request only female partners?

Necrobump.

Why would anyone, gay or straight, want to only have a M or F OMM partner?

 

[studentp0x]

Necrobump.

Why would anyone, gay or straight, want to only have a M or F OMM partner?

You would think some people would be professional. Guess that ain't the case.

 

[GunnarBronson]

Necrobump.

Why would anyone, gay or straight, want to only have a M or F OMM partner?

A lot of people grew up sheltered in that respect and are extraordinarily insecure.

 

[Promethean]

A lot of people grew up sheltered in that respect and are extraordinarily insecure.

Well, no time to get over that like when you are in a professional school that is training you to take care of the physical health of all different kinds of people.

 

[GunnarBronson]

Well, no time to get over that like when you are in a professional school that is training you to take care of the physical health of all different kinds of people.

No doubt. My first foray into medicine was as an Army medic. Drunk soldiers hurt themselves in the strangest of ways, so you name it I've probably seen it. Bodies don't bother me, male or female.

 

[touchpause13]

Good lord. You get a different partner everytime. You are going to have patients of all genders. Yes you are going to have to touch them. You get over it fast

 

[GUH]

Can gay guys request only female partners?

You can request whatever you want. They probably won't grant it.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm a straight guy, but I requested a Centaur and got it. Just apply and enjoy.

 

[touchpause13]

I'm a straight guy, but I requested a Centaur and got it. Just apply and enjoy.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Can gay guys request only female partners?

Do you want to pretend to be gay just to get female partners? Dude...

 

[Lawgiver]

Necrobump.

Why would anyone, gay or straight, want to only have a M or F OMM partner?

Cuz I'm gay and would feel awkward having other men feel me up. My pcp is female and I try to get female specialists when I need to see a specialist.

I have no problem touching others gay or str m or f. In my future role as hcp I will be the one doing the touching so not sure why I need to be touched by students.

It would be vastly more appropriate for do schools to hire models that students can work on, god knows they get enough money from us.

Oh and med students are not professionals, they are students and should not be expected to pretend otherwise.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Cuz I'm gay and would feel awkward having other men feel me up. My pcp is female and I try to get female specialists when I need to see a specialist.

Don't worry, even though we often joke that it is, OMM is far from feeling up your partner. There really is nothing sexual about it, honestly. My partner in lab this week was gay and we had to do something with the ASIS...just another day in OMM lab. I guess I'm not truly understanding your reasoning. It's a little awkward for everyone at first--but that only lasts about three minutes on the first day then everyone is used to it.

 

[GunnarBronson]

Oh and med students are not professionals, they are students and should not be expected to pretend otherwise.

Please expand on this statement.

 

[Mad Jack]

Cuz I'm gay and would feel awkward having other men feel me up. My pcp is female and I try to get female specialists when I need to see a specialist.

I have no problem touching others gay or str m or f. In my future role as hcp I will be the one doing the touching so not sure why I need to be touched by students.

It would be vastly more appropriate for do schools to hire models that students can work on, god knows they get enough money from us.

Oh and med students are not professionals, they are students and should not be expected to pretend otherwise.

Medical students are health professional students. You are held to a professional standard from day 1. If you want to be an undergrad level student, don't bother applying to medical school.

 

[Lawgiver]

Lol yeah ok. I love these don't bother posts, people put up with things they don't like all the time. Such silliness to suggest quitting over one issue is the answer.

If p comes to s I'd do it, but I posted here to talk ideas not declare a hard lined stance.

There is nothing professional about letting someone else feel you up. Being felt up, however non sexual, is not in the job description of practicing physicians, nor does it contribute to future performance. And like I said, I have no problem with touching others during omm lab if they don't have objections either.

What's wrong with hiring people(money?) or even asking for volunteers? Why must fellow students be on the receiving end off manual therapy training?

Suck it up or that's how it is are not logical answers.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Medical students are health professional students. You are held to a professional standard from day 1. If you want to be an undergrad level student, don't bother applying to medical school.

Might take a while for him to get used to the unending professionalism lectures given from day 1.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Lol yeah ok. I love these don't bother posts, people put up with things they don't like all the time. Such silliness to suggest quitting over one issue is the answer.

If p comes to s I'd do it, but I posted here to talk ideas not declare a hard lined stance.

There is nothing professional about letting someone else feel you up. Being felt up, however non sexual, is not in the job description of practicing physicians, nor does it contribute to future performance.

What's wrong with hiring people or even asking for volunteers? Why must fellow students be on the receiving end off manual therapy training?

Suck it up or that's how it is are not logical answers.

There's nothing unprofessional about practicing OMM on classmates.

If it's non-sexual, is it really being felt up? There's a huge gap between physical touch and being felt up. Not being on the receiving end of OMM will only hinder your efficacy in performing it on others, so it does contribute to future performance.

Will you not let your classmates check your blood pressure or help them practice auscultation skills, either?

Imagine the cluster**** of coordinating (and paying) 150+ model patients every week just because students didn't feel like touching each other. Logistically that's impossible and even if it weren't, the costs would certainly be passed on to students.

You might have to just call each school you're interested in and ask them what their policy would be for your preferences. Each school will be different.

 

[NeuroLAX]

It would be vastly more appropriate for do schools to hire models that students can work on, god knows they get enough money from us.

Not at all- I disagree entirely. It sounds like what you're asking is for everyone to be trained without the experience of examining and palpating a wide variety of body types. Is that the type of medical education you want before rotations? I certainly hope not. In my opinion, that's the best reason why we practice on different people each week during lab and in groups on our own time. I wouldn't want it any other way. If a school hired models for OPP, they would likely be the same people returning week after week. I saw the same faces time and time again for clinical skills exams and procedure workshops, so I personally wouldn't want a standardized patient each week for OPP. I can't comment on the size of the standardized patient pool at other schools, but I don't think people are coming in droves to have medical students touch them for an hour or two for such little pay. We aren't talking about a lucrative side job here. On the other hand, hiring standardized patients is very appropriate for clinical skills exams and non-invasive clinical workshops. The focus of these encounters is mostly to get you comfortable being in a professional setting while taking histories and performing physical examinations on trained individuals as if they are real patients rather than to assess your ability to appreciate the anatomical findings of pathology or dysfunction, and certainly not to assess your ability to treat anything.

 

[rzoo14]

I don't understand the double standard when it comes to practicing opp. You'll do it on others but won't let others do it on you because it's "unprofessional" and don't want to be "felt up". If every student were to have this thinking, there would be no opp lab and even med skills would be really limited.
We're not pretending to be professionals. We're learning. There's a difference.

 

[Lawgiver]

I didn't say omm is unprof. I said med students are not professionals. And not wanting a fellow student to feel you up should not mean your are not professional, assuming you are in the camp where med students should be considered professionals to begin with

And you are being felt up, it's not just simple light touch. Pressure is applied, including in some areas close to the anus and groin.

Let's say you do get 150 paid folks, if you rotated them every med student would not be forced to work on the same person, as suggested above. Right?

 

[touchpause13]

I didn't say omm is unprof. I said med students are not professionals. And not wanting a fellow student to feel you up should not mean your are not professional, assuming you are in the camp where med students should be considered professionals to begin with

And you are being felt up, it's not just simple light touch. Pressure is applied, including in some areas close to the anus and groin.

Let's say you do get 150 paid folks, if you rotated them every med student would not be forced to work on the same person, as suggested above. Right?

The logistics of hiring people just doesn't add up. I have to find a body double for certain things because I have physical limitations and that's a PITA.

I have no idea where you are getting the idea that med students aren't professionals. We are told from day one that we are expected to behave in a professional manner. We have professionalism points in some of our classes. Professionalism is hammered into you from the get go.

I think one of the goals of OMM lab is something you are alluding to - getting used to putting your hands on people. That is a very important skill for physicians and you need to be comfortable with it, you also need to learn how to think like a physician which means compartmentizing any feelings of uncomfortableness with certain body parts. You have to learn to see sensitive areas as just another part on the body. Patients come in with problems all over, and you can't be uncomfortable to treat them. The being touched in OMM is also key because it allows you to understand what the patient would be feeling for certain moves. I had someone palpate my sacrum and it was very tender. Well now I just made the connection in my head, don't use too much force in that area and make sure to ask the patient if that hurts because I don't want to cause them pain.

 

[Mad Jack]

I didn't say omm is unprof. I said med students are not professionals. And not wanting a fellow student to feel you up should not mean your are not professional, assuming you are in the camp where med students should be considered professionals to begin with

And you are being felt up, it's not just simple light touch. Pressure is applied, including in some areas close to the anus and groin.

Let's say you do get 150 paid folks, if you rotated them every med student would not be forced to work on the same person, as suggested above. Right?

You do about 500 hours or more of OMM lab. Hiring 500 hours worth of help at 10 dollars an hour, in addition to at least 100 hours of training per standardized patient, times 175 students... you're looking at a total cost of $1,175,000 if you can even find enough people who want the job. That's $6,500 you'd be adding to each student's tuition just so they wouldn't have to suffer the indignity of having to touch one another

OMM lab isn't a sexual thing. Being touched by other people isn't sexual- it's pretty damn immature to feel otherwise. If you're just insecure or have religious beliefs or whatever, that's one thing, but to believe that a person touching another person of the sex they happen to be attracted to is a sexual interaction is just childish.

You may believe professionalism to just be some buzz word you aren't actually expected to exemplify, but get used to the idea that med school is less like school and more like the workplace. You go when and where they tell you to go, dress how they tell you to dress (I've had to go from professional (practice conference) to scrubs (anatomy) to OMM gear all in one day), and do as they tell you to do (objectives, projects, etc) if you want to survive. You're expected to represent the profession to your community through involvement, the school through research, etc. As an example, let's say you went to the bar wearing a COM hoodie. Undergrad, that's acceptable. Get caught doing it here and you're visiting the dean. Use unprofessional language in a CSA because you got nervous and just weren't thinking? Welcome to automatic remediation. Things like that. If you can't deal with constantly being forced to fit the professional mold (or actually just have a modicum of professionalism to begin with because you've had a professional career beforehand), med school isn't for you.

 

[costales]

Suck it up or that's how it is are not logical answers.

Lose that attitude, because the world of medicine is not going to revolve around you.

 

[NeuroLAX]

You do about 500 hours or more of OMM lab. Hiring 500 hours worth of help at 10 dollars an hour, in addition to at least 100 hours of training per standardized patient, times 175 students... you're looking at a total cost of $1,175,000 if you can even find enough people who want the job. That's $6,500 you'd be adding to each student's tuition just so they wouldn't have to suffer the indignity of having to touch one another

OMM lab isn't a sexual thing. Being touched by other people isn't sexual- it's pretty damn immature to feel otherwise. If you're just insecure or have religious beliefs or whatever, that's one thing, but to believe that a person touching another person of the sex they happen to be attracted to is a sexual interaction is just childish.

You may believe professionalism to just be some buzz word you aren't actually expected to exemplify, but get used to the idea that med school is less like school and more like the workplace. You go when and where they tell you to go, dress how they tell you to dress (I've had to go from professional (practice conference) to scrubs (anatomy) to OMM gear all in one day), and do as they tell you to do (objectives, projects, etc) if you want to survive. You're expected to represent the profession to your community through involvement, the school through research, etc. As an example, let's say you went to the bar wearing a COM hoodie. Undergrad, that's acceptable. Get caught doing it here and you're visiting the dean. Use unprofessional language in a CSA because you got nervous and just weren't thinking? Welcome to automatic remediation. Things like that. If you can't deal with constantly being forced to fit the professional mold (or actually just have a modicum of professionalism to begin with because you've had a professional career beforehand), med school isn't for you.

Excellent points. Just to add to your fiscal reasons, I think the going rate for standardized patient pay is anywhere from $15-25/hr, sometimes less and sometimes more depending on the task. I believe my school gives $20/hr, more for when we learn pelvic and rectal exams.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

You do about 500 hours or more of OMM lab. Hiring 500 hours worth of help at 10 dollars an hour, in addition to at least 100 hours of training per standardized patient, times 175 students... you're looking at a total cost of $1,175,000 if you can even find enough people who want the job. That's $6,500 you'd be adding to each student's tuition just so they wouldn't have to suffer the indignity of having to touch one another

OMM lab isn't a sexual thing. Being touched by other people isn't sexual- it's pretty damn immature to feel otherwise. If you're just insecure or have religious beliefs or whatever, that's one thing, but to believe that a person touching another person of the sex they happen to be attracted to is a sexual interaction is just childish.

You may believe professionalism to just be some buzz word you aren't actually expected to exemplify, but get used to the idea that med school is less like school and more like the workplace. You go when and where they tell you to go, dress how they tell you to dress (I've had to go from professional (practice conference) to scrubs (anatomy) to OMM gear all in one day), and do as they tell you to do (objectives, projects, etc) if you want to survive. You're expected to represent the profession to your community through involvement, the school through research, etc. As an example, let's say you went to the bar wearing a COM hoodie. Undergrad, that's acceptable. Get caught doing it here and you're visiting the dean. Use unprofessional language in a CSA because you got nervous and just weren't thinking? Welcome to automatic remediation. Things like that. If you can't deal with constantly being forced to fit the professional mold (or actually just have a modicum of professionalism to begin with because you've had a professional career beforehand), med school isn't for you.

Wait I can't go to a bar with a COM hoodie? Dang there goes my pickup strategy

Is this at all schools or just yours? You don't go to lecom do you? (I know you aren't at lucom lol)

Cuz I'm gay and would feel awkward having other men feel me up. My pcp is female and I try to get female specialists when I need to see a specialist.

I have no problem touching others gay or str m or f. In my future role as hcp I will be the one doing the touching so not sure why I need to be touched by students.

It would be vastly more appropriate for do schools to hire models that students can work on, god knows they get enough money from us.

Oh and med students are not professionals, they are students and should not be expected to pretend otherwise.

Besides what everyone else is pointing out(OMM isn't sexual or feeling you up) what does it matter if you're gay or not. Straight guys and straight girls have partners of the opposite and same sex. So why wouldn't that apply to gay medical students.

 

[Mad Jack]

Wait I can't go to a bar with a COM hoodie? Dang there goes my pickup strategy

Is this at all schools or just yours? You don't go to lecom do you? (I know you aren't at lucom lol)




Besides what everyone else is pointing out(OMM isn't sexual or feeling you up) what does it matter if you're gay or not. Straight guys and straight girls have partners of the opposite and same sex. So why wouldn't that apply to gay medical students have the same.

You'll have required OMM and anatomy clothes at most schools, usually on alternating days, so you're changing at least once a day. The only time we have to dress up (shirt and tie) is for standardized patients, hospital visits, and clinical practice conferences that have special guests. But if you have an anatomy review, standardized patient, class, and OMM lab on the same day... Ugh, it can get ugly.

 

[Promethean]

It would be vastly more appropriate for do schools to hire models that students can work on, god knows they get enough money from us.

I strongly disagree with this. You will be a better doctor for having been on the receiving end of some of the treatments that you dispense. Even if you choose not to practice OMT, the more you experience the patient role, the more you will be able to appreciate that perspective.

 

[deadleopard]

I can't decide whether lawgiver is an excellent troll or just really, really shouldn't be a D.O.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I can't decide whether lawgiver is an excellent troll or just really, really shouldn't be a D.O.

I'm convinced he isn't gay and just wants female partners. This is like the same thing with gay guys in sports locker rooms. You know when you hear that gay guys can't control themselves in locker rooms? Insane. Same thing with OMM. Gay guys just don't go crazy in the presence of other guys. I'm confident this won't work. Administration would see right through this.

 

[touchpause13]

I'm convinced he isn't gay and just wants female partners. This is like the same thing with gay guys in sports locker rooms. You know when you hear that gay guys can't control themselves in locker rooms? Insane. Same thing with OMM. Gay guys just don't go crazy in the presence of other guys. I'm confident this won't work. Administration would see right through this.

Somehow, despite being attracted to all genders I've managed to not touch any of my classmates in a sexual manner during OMM. It's. Not. A. Big. Deal.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Somehow, despite being attracted to all genders I've managed to not touch any of my classmates in a sexual manner during OMM. It's. Not. A. Big. Deal.

Yea by this guys logic since you're bi you can't do OMM


Insane.

As a straight guy I wouldnt even be uncomfortable with a homosexual OMM partner/female/straight male /pansexual / obese/anyone. W/e we are professionals.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Somehow, despite being attracted to all genders I've managed to not touch any of my classmates in a sexual manner during OMM. It's. Not. A. Big. Deal.

I don't know, TP...bowstringing your partner does sound kind of kinky lol

 

[touchpause13]

Yea by this guys logic since you're bi you can't do OMM


Insane.

As a straight guy I wouldnt even be uncomfortable with a homosexual OMM partner/female/straight male /pansexual / obese/anyone. W/e we are professionals.

Lol didn't you know that your orientation means that you have to be attracted to every person of that gender and have no self control?? /notsrs

Guys gotta be a troll, the logic here is nonexistent

 

[touchpause13]

I don't know, TP...bowstringing your partner does sound kind of kinky lol

Somehow I feel like I shouldn't take med ethics advice from doctor krieger. LOL

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Somehow I feel like I shouldn't take med ethics advice from doctor krieger. LOL

Haha, there's a reason I'm not a real doctor. Or even the other kind...technically. *smoke bomb*

 

[touchpause13]

Do you want me to step in your van?

 

[DoctorKrieger]

View attachment 185663
Do you want me to step in your van?

I mean, if you're cool with rolling probable cause.

 

[jaguar33]

Lol yeah ok. I love these don't bother posts, people put up with things they don't like all the time. Such silliness to suggest quitting over one issue is the answer.

If p comes to s I'd do it, but I posted here to talk ideas not declare a hard lined stance.

There is nothing professional about letting someone else feel you up. Being felt up, however non sexual, is not in the job description of practicing physicians, nor does it contribute to future performance. And like I said, I have no problem with touching others during omm lab if they don't have objections either.

What's wrong with hiring people(money?) or even asking for volunteers? Why must fellow students be on the receiving end off manual therapy training?

Suck it up or that's how it is are not logical answers.

We do OMM on each other so you know how it feels. It also helps you figure out better ways to do OMM by feeling someone else do it awkwardly on you and then you try it on them. If you don't want to learn OMM, than don't go to a DO school. Even if we don't use it in the future, it would be ridiculous to pay people to practice something that we all willingly signed up to learn. It doesn't matter if you "just want to be a physician." If you go to a DO school, you will be expected to learn OMM. No way around it. Learn to like it, or don't apply or accept an offer.

 

[touchpause13]

Seriously this thread is just making me think about how bad i want someone to do OMM on my neck. It's killin me right now.

 

[Lawgiver]

The only point that is relevant in that wall of replies after my last post is the importance of feeling what the patient might be feeling. I can understand this. No its not a sexual thing, as I already said more than once. I just do not want other men touching me, hence the female only partner request.

But this sorta turned into the whole concept of current omm lab practice and I guess I got lured into that argument, but that was not my intent. But I guess my right to privacy like many things goes out the window in a work/school setting.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

The only point that is relevant in that wall of replies after my last post is the importance of feeling what the patient might be feeling. I can understand this. No its not a sexual thing, as I already said more than once. I just do not want other men touching me, hence the female only partner request.

But this sorta turned into the whole concept of current omm lab practice and I guess I got lured into that argument, but that was not my intent. But I guess my right to privacy like many things goes out the window in a work/school setting.

Suck it up and move on with your life. This has nothing to do with privacy

 

[DoctorKrieger]

The only point that is relevant in that wall of replies after my last post is the importance of feeling what the patient might be feeling. I can understand this. No its not a sexual thing, as I already said more than once. I just do not want other men touching me, hence the female only partner request.

But this sorta turned into the whole concept of current omm lab practice and I guess I got lured into that argument, but that was not my intent. But I guess my right to privacy like many things goes out the window in a work/school setting.

I respect your viewpoint, even though I don't comprehend it. If nothing else, I hope you are reassured that OMM lab is nothing but professional (like the rest of med school) and you need not worry about your partner getting some kind of sexual gratification from practicing OMM on you (if that's what you're most concerned about).

 

[PlasticBag]

I think that in some cases requesting a same/opposite sex partner can be justified for reasons which the person might not want to disclose to everyone, like being a sexual violence survivor.

 

[rzoo14]

Seriously this thread is just making me think about how bad i want someone to do OMM on my neck. It's killin me right now.

One of our attendings did cervical hvla on me. Felt awesome!

 

[touchpause13]

I think that in some cases requesting a same/opposite sex partner can be justified for reasons which the person might not want to disclose to everyone, like being a sexual violence survivor.

Totally valid IMO. There are a few techniques that are very much in sensitive areas and I don't think the professor would have problem with someone requesting a specific gender partner for those labs.

Another thing to consider is that we are always always taught to ask before touching someone, and I don't see why the person playing the patient couldn't say no if they felt like they were going to get triggered.

 

[Promethean]

Seriously this thread is just making me think about how bad i want someone to do OMM on my neck. It's killin me right now.

I have to say that I'm rather looking forward to OMM for this very reason. Can't wait to see if it actually works, and I have enough aches and pains to try it out on.