What can an MD do without a residency?

Started by Pharmohaulic
Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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Pharmohaulic

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I'm sure this question has Been asked before on here, but what can an MD do without a residency?

They can practice medicine in any capacity? I read that in some states they can complete a 1 year internship and pass a test to practice in a limited setting, is that true?
 
Either commit to residency or cut out.

To answer your question, there are a couple but limited options w/o residency (depending on your interests) since you're really not marketable as a practicing physician until you've gone through residency
- Research -> doing a postdoc
- Consulting -> some companies may hire MDs as healthcare sector consultants - though they usually want you to have done residency
- pharma -> same as consulting
- biotech -> though I'd imagine residency would make one more attractive since you'd have the authority of being a trained clinician

Of course depending on what your UG training was in or if you happen to be great at something like programming, there may be other jobs that open up. These are all just my opinions so take them with a grain of salt.
 
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Post-doctoral fellow.

or a lab technician.


Pharmohaulic said:
I'm sure this question has Been asked before on here, but what can an MD do without a residency?

They can practice medicine in any capacity? I read that in some states they can complete a 1 year internship and pass a test to practice in a limited setting, is that true?
Click to expand...
 
I work for the state government for PSLF making around only around 46k, but supposedly I'll jump to 55k next year and 70k in 5 years per classification jump system.

I handle policies and procedures relating to pharmacy based management. Got Carib MD with 500k loan. Apparently the loan forgiveness with compound interest is 1 million.

So I am making 46k+100k due to loan forgiveness. I also get to retire at 55 due to pension. There are tons of things you can do with a MD with residency. Aslong as you don't mind working with insurance, medicare, and PBMs. Don't listen to these pessimistic people. I gotten higher job salary offers for IT healthcare industries. But I figure I need to make 180k in private sector to match the student loan forgiveness and pension.

Also work life balance is great. 9-5 all day with no studying. All holidays off with even stuff like Columbus Day, and I get 24 vacation time per year. So get your MD at least.
 
W19 said:
1-year post grad training would give an unrestricted medical license in many states... Why not do at least a year?
Click to expand...

I work in the insurance arm of the government. We will not reimburse for non-board certified doctors. I feel those 1 year post grad thing is dying out. You need at least a preventive medicine residency with MPH to make use of license.
 
tennischamp822 said:
What would you be doing at these companies and what kind of offers have you gotten?
Click to expand...

It was through those job placement companies. Mostly IT work for outpatient clinics and so on. I have computer background. Offer was similar salary with bonuses. Small IT companies. Responsibility is to provide support to few clients, and once I am established they would transition clients to me, and I'll get profits per client I am responsible for.

I also was working for a diff state department 3 days in for auditing insurance companies in regards to affordable health care act before I got poached.

Dude sky is the limit with MD no residency.
 
thxleave said:
Dude sky is the limit with MD no residency.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity is anything in your current job actually utilizing your education as an MD?

And are these positions you mention specifically targeted for/require qualifications such as "people with MD degrees who did not get into residency?"

Just wondering if such positions were available to someone who did not actually go through the whole medical education/crushing debt route, because they do sound like they could be attractive jobs for the health care technology field.
 
thxleave said:
I work in the insurance arm of the government. We will not reimburse for non-board certified doctors. I feel those 1 year post grad thing is dying out. You need at least a preventive medicine residency with MPH to make use of license.
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These general practitioners can work in the prison system and county health departments... Anyway, there is something wrong with our system when insurance companies will reimburse service provided by PA/NP, but not MD with a license to practice medicine...
 
funny-taco-bell-sign-job-offer.jpg
 
W19 said:
These general practitioners can work in the prison system and county health departments... Anyway, there is something wrong with our system when insurance companies will reimburse service provided by PA/NP, but not MD with a license to practice medicine...
Click to expand...

Maybe in some states, but not my state.
 
tatsuchi said:
Out of curiosity is anything in your current job actually utilizing your education as an MD?

And are these positions you mention specifically targeted for/require qualifications such as "people with MD degrees who did not get into residency?"

Just wondering if such positions were available to someone who did not actually go through the whole medical education/crushing debt route, because they do sound like they could be attractive jobs for the health care technology field.
Click to expand...

You are right. A lot of my coworkers were pharm techs, medical assistants, medical salesman, and nurses. Maybe I could had gotten this job without my MD. But with 100+ applicants, internal candidates, and JDs seeking PSLF applying for this position... I am glad I had my MD.

I do use my MD here and there, but it's more peripheral.
 
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thxleave said:
I work for the state government for PSLF making around only around 46k, but supposedly I'll jump to 55k next year and 70k in 5 years per classification jump system.

I handle policies and procedures relating to pharmacy based management. Got Carib MD with 500k loan. Apparently the loan forgiveness with compound interest is 1 million.

So I am making 46k+100k due to loan forgiveness. I also get to retire at 55 due to pension. There are tons of things you can do with a MD with residency. Aslong as you don't mind working with insurance, medicare, and PBMs. Don't listen to these pessimistic people. I gotten higher job salary offers for IT healthcare industries. But I figure I need to make 180k in private sector to match the student loan forgiveness and pension.

Also work life balance is great. 9-5 all day with no studying. All holidays off with even stuff like Columbus Day, and I get 24 vacation time per year. So get your MD at least.
Click to expand...

For anyone reading, proceed with caution. This option is currently great but a few budgetary adjustments in the law and these options go away. States can say "were broke, sorry no more pension." The federal government can say, "no way we can give every Carib MD $1,000,000." Ten years later you're eating the debt, the interest, and without a pension. Just be careful. Nothing is guaranteed.
 
SansaStarkMD said:
For anyone reading, proceed with caution. This option is currently great but a few budgetary adjustments in the law and these options go away. States can say "were broke, sorry no more pension." The federal government can say, "no way we can give every Carib MD $1,000,000." Ten years later you're eating the debt, the interest, and without a pension. Just be careful. Nothing is guaranteed.
Click to expand...

True. We are in a massive pension deficit. To the point cities and states are going bankrupt like Michigan. Tax payer bail out time. City pensions are more susceptible to being slashed.

As for PSLF... it's in our MPN. I got contingency plans such as permanently enrolling in community college courses online to defer loans if PSLF is deleted or capped.

Or I can try do residency, get injured such as have brain tumor and told to leave. Or have a melt down and assault an uber driver, and get kicked out. So many ifs and whats/buts.
 
thxleave said:
I work for the state government for PSLF making around only around 46k, but supposedly I'll jump to 55k next year and 70k in 5 years per classification jump system.

I handle policies and procedures relating to pharmacy based management. Got Carib MD with 500k loan. Apparently the loan forgiveness with compound interest is 1 million.

So I am making 46k+100k due to loan forgiveness. I also get to retire at 55 due to pension. There are tons of things you can do with a MD with residency. Aslong as you don't mind working with insurance, medicare, and PBMs. Don't listen to these pessimistic people. I gotten higher job salary offers for IT healthcare industries. But I figure I need to make 180k in private sector to match the student loan forgiveness and pension.

Also work life balance is great. 9-5 all day with no studying. All holidays off with even stuff like Columbus Day, and I get 24 vacation time per year. So get your MD at least.
Click to expand...

What do u mean u make 46k + 100k due to loan forgiveness? So u bring home about 150k after paying off ur monthly loan dues with a Carib MD and no residency?


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He's making the equivalent of an extra $100k per year in compensation because 10y of his job will forgive a million dollars of debt. The risk ofc is PSLF shutdown and pension cutbacks
 
neoevolution said:
He's making the equivalent of an extra $100k per year in compensation because 10y of his job will forgive a million dollars of debt. The risk ofc is PSLF shutdown and pension cutbacks
Click to expand...

You do know loans can be deferred indefinitely right, as I mentioned earlier. Also pensions can be cutback. But depends if state ties it in legislation. More likely the taxpayers will have to pay for my pension and PSLF. MDs aren't only one vested in PSLF, you forgot JDs are also vested in this.
 
Healthcare administration? I bet there arent a lot of jobs descriptions written with need MD who cant practice.
 
cbrons said:
They should give non residency trained MDs full practice rights. They already do that in 21 states for NPs, and newly graduated NP is less qualified than an MD graduate. If you believe otherwise, then medical school is a complete scam and should be shut down.

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Click to expand...

My only concern is that the momentum would shift to physicians skipping things like family and emergency medicine residencies. Once it became the norm, more people would choose to start working sooner for the same salary and you would blur the lines even further. I say we keep the bar high.
 
SansaStarkMD said:
My only concern is that the momentum would shift to physicians skipping things like family and emergency medicine residencies. Once it became the norm, more people would choose to start working sooner for the same salary and you would blur the lines even further. I say we keep the bar high.
Click to expand...

Maybe. That's why burn out is high. Keeping the bar high protects the wages of physicians only for so long. Look at the rise of mid-levels. All I know is, life is greener on the other side. Maybe I'll never drive a Tesla. But to be honest, I thought of suicide everyday when I was in the wards. Now that I am free from medicine, life never has been so good. I used to think maybe I should see a psychiatrist or go on SSRI.. but it's just the stress and pressure. The rat race of medicine with ever increasing bar.

That's just my piece on MD no residency. Sometimes people can say just 3 more years or, just do this and that... there is a time you just have to say, if I have to do this one more day, I won't last. So here I am. Medical school was worth it though even if it was at SGU. Makes me appreciate my cushy state job even more. So you can keep your bars high, but sooner or later people just going to say forget it. I am not jumping.
 
SansaStarkMD said:
My only concern is that the momentum would shift to physicians skipping things like family and emergency medicine residencies. Once it became the norm, more people would choose to start working sooner for the same salary and you would blur the lines even further. I say we keep the bar high.
Click to expand...
Then there's no reason for anyone to go to medical school. They are phasing out physician training as it currently exists by giving NPs complete autonomy.
 
cbrons said:
Then there's no reason for anyone to go to medical school. They are phasing out physician training as it currently exists by giving NPs complete autonomy.
Click to expand...

Then there would *be* no reason to go to medical school. I'm arguing that there is. A resident who skips med school would be a crappy physician. You can't retain as much if you don't have a foundation.

No one is phasing out medical education as it stands. The government is providing a cheap, public option, Walmart brand healthcare alternative for the poor that don't pay their bills. Physicians will always be the quality, private option or the academic option that researches and innovates.
 
SansaStarkMD said:
Then there would *be* no reason to go to medical school. I'm arguing that there is. A resident who skips med school would be a crappy physician. You can't retain as much if you don't have a foundation.

No one is phasing out medical education as it stands. The government is providing a cheap, public option, Walmart brand healthcare alternative for the poor that don't pay their bills. Physicians will always be the quality, private option or the academic option that researches and innovates.
Click to expand...

You are right. The poor deserve lower quality of healthcare. Seeing a doctor should be reserved for people of higher status that can afford the private or academic option. /s.

This is why it's hard for people to side with physician when it comes to mid level autonomy. Or increase wages for physician or reducing the workload.
 
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Unfortunately the quality of *clinical* training at most schools ranges from mediocre to downright crappy.

IMO the ideal scenario would be to have a 1 year "primary care" internship option. Afterwards you'd be able to get a job at a primary care clinic or urgent care center seeing only straightforward low acuity patients similar to those seen in the fast track at many ERs. It would reduce the total training time by 2 years and allow you to make a decent salary (probably 140-160k/yr) right out of training to pay off loans and maintain a good quality of life.
 
thxleave said:
I work in the insurance arm of the government. We will not reimburse for non-board certified doctors. I feel those 1 year post grad thing is dying out. You need at least a preventive medicine residency with MPH to make use of license.
Click to expand...

Thats not true on multiple levels.

1. Many specialties you can't become board certified until about 8-12 months after residency. Although you are board eligible when you finish residency.

2. I moonlight now and the company i work for has no problem billing private insurance, medicare, medicaid in my name. And I am not board eligible nor board certified.

One of the biggest issues is hospitals aren't interested in credentialing doctors who haven't completed a residency.
 
thxleave said:
I work in the insurance arm of the government. We will not reimburse for non-board certified doctors. I feel those 1 year post grad thing is dying out. You need at least a preventive medicine residency with MPH to make use of license.
Click to expand...
This is false. My spouse does Medicare and Medicaid claim reviews and non-boarded physicians get reimbursed all the time. This includes physicians who only did an intern year and managed to find a GP job.
 
thxleave said:
You are right. The poor deserve lower quality of healthcare. Seeing a doctor should be reserved for people of higher status that can afford the private or academic option. /s.

This is why it's hard for people to side with physician when it comes to mid level autonomy. Or increase wages for physician or reducing the workload.
Click to expand...
She meant that the poor will get mid-level care more and more in the future, not necessary about what people "deserve."
 
thxleave said:
You are right. The poor deserve lower quality of healthcare. Seeing a doctor should be reserved for people of higher status that can afford the private or academic option. /s.

This is why it's hard for people to side with physician when it comes to mid level autonomy. Or increase wages for physician or reducing the workload.
Click to expand...

"The poor deserve...". Your words not mine. I'm merely stating what's possible and what's happening due to simple economics.
 
link2swim06 said:
One of the biggest issues is hospitals aren't interested in credentialing doctors who haven't completed a residency.
Click to expand...

This is precisely the issue. As others have mentioned, insurance companies have made board certification the de facto requirement to practice. While it is not required, it is helpful. Also, JACHO, while also not requiring physicians at a hospital be board certified, requires rules and policy on requirements. Thus, since it is difficult to determine who is a good doctor, and who is not, board certification becomes an outside entity that literally certifies a doctor is competent to practice a particular part of medicine.
 
Very interesting discusssion. PhD and postdoc is another 7-10 year alternative. But within 5 years, you can finish your residency! I am not sure if working on a small firm is a good option. Sounds more like a downgrade..
 
alpinism said:
Unfortunately the quality of *clinical* training at most schools ranges from mediocre to downright crappy.

IMO the ideal scenario would be to have a 1 year "primary care" internship option. Afterwards you'd be able to get a job at a primary care clinic or urgent care center seeing only straightforward low acuity patients similar to those seen in the fast track at many ERs. It would reduce the total training time by 2 years and allow you to make a decent salary (probably 140-160k/yr) right out of training to pay off loans and maintain a good quality of life.
Click to expand...
As a primary care doctor, I can unequivocally tell you that intern year alone is insufficient for what I do.
 
thxleave said:
You are right. The poor deserve lower quality of healthcare. Seeing a doctor should be reserved for people of higher status that can afford the private or academic option. /s.

This is why it's hard for people to side with physician when it comes to mid level autonomy. Or increase wages for physician or reducing the workload.
Click to expand...
Mid level autonomy is giving the poor a lower level of care.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
As a primary care doctor, I can unequivocally tell you that intern year alone is insufficient for what I do.
Click to expand...

I agree.

That's why I said only straightforward low acuity patients. They'd basically be seeing the same patients that PAs and NPs see nowadays.
 
alpinism said:
I agree.

That's why I said only straightforward low acuity patients. They'd basically be seeing the same patients that PAs and NPs see nowadays.
Click to expand...
The problem with that is many times patients that look low acuity, aren't. That's why our training is as long as it is.
 
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The answer your question, work as an assistant physician in either Arkansas or Missouri according to the new legislation in the past few years.


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