What can we do to prevent new schools from opening?

[Filler]

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You know...I think this is an opportunity to take our profession back..

When there no longer are jobs, I think enterprising pharmacists will start their own indy pharmacy...

I've been thinking exactly the same thing, with the lack of openings and the way retail pharmacy is managed its going to provide a huge incentive if not force younger pharmacist to open their own shop.

 

[gotdrugs]

Interesting that you knock students for having "laughable" thoughts then you repeat, almost verbatim, something that I said on this exact thread 2 days ago about the PMP and their ADI...

Ever hear of generalization? My post is an example.....have you seen the countless other threads on this very topic and usually (hence the generalization) it's only the pharmacy students that believes that everything will be ok, competition is a good thing, blah blah blah....

Did I read your exact post? No, I probably missed that out of the other 100 posts on this thread. Don't really care. Point is, this is the 2nd lowest "demand" per the Manpower project in the last 10 years, and the overall numbers is dropping at an alarmingly fast rate.

If you are taking my post criticizing pharmacy students as a whole personally, then you shouldn't. (But yes, I do think that it is laughable that pharmacy students are posting acting like Z doesn't know what he is talking about)

 

[Thumper17]

What??

If a town has 5 family practice clinics and It doubles to 10 clinics. You don't think the gross and net income of those practices will be affected?

As far as more services being offered, perhaps you're referring to different medical specialties providing different services. However, you can not compare that to retail pharmacists filling prescriptions.

The quote I posted was a quote from the NY times article posted above me. It basically says that when more doctors are minted, they generally settle in upscale urban/suburban areas. This oversupply DOES NOT reduce salaries, but rather increases the number of services offered in the area.

Basically, it says they DO NOT settle in towns with 5 family practice clinics, but settle in Beverly Hills, California or the North shore of Chicago or Princeton, NJ and offer more services/specialties but do not face a reduction in salary despite the oversupply.

I don't see why the same cannot occur in pharmacy. Salaries don't adjust downward regularly in really any profession, oversupply or not. I am not saying it is an impossibility, but it is more likely that pharmacist salaries will stay the same or increase over the near future than drop markedly.

 

[Its Z]

I don't see why the same cannot occur in pharmacy. Salaries don't adjust downward regularly in really any profession, oversupply or not.

Very simple and obvious reason. It's because pharmacists are not a reimbursable "healthcare provider" as a general rule. We make money by product distribution through prescription sales, not by providing professional medical cognitive and procedural services like physicians. Services physicians can provide are limitless from popping zits to tummy tucks and get paid for it..

Pharmacists on the other hand only have 1 source of income.. dispensing.

In order to maintain their salary, physicians are electing to provide elective procedures or services that are not abundantly provided to patients who can afford those types of procedures. You're going to tell me if they all provided same services while being oversupplied, they'll still be able to maintain their salaries?

 

[Its Z]

If you are taking my post criticizing pharmacy students as a whole personally, then you shouldn't. (But yes, I do think that it is laughable that pharmacy students are posting acting like Z doesn't know what he is talking about)

At least when I was a student, I didn't have much of an opinion regarding pharmacy practice...rather went ahead and did what my DOP told me to do...

 

[jinga]

Tough times are ahead. I'm not really sure what to do. Hope for the best and be willing to adapt I suppose. Sooo glad I'm going to a cheap in-state school...

 

[Its Z]

Tough times are ahead. I'm not really sure what to do. Hope for the best and be willing to adapt I suppose. Sooo glad I'm going to a cheap in-state school...

When I started RX school in 1991, average pharmacist salary was around $40K.. there was not a shortage.. in fact when I graduated, there were no jobs as 30% of us didn't have a job lined up at graduation and 30% went to residency. One of the jackass professors who was in the Navy Reserves swore in one of my classmates at the graduation and blurted out "Eat your heart out, she has a job."

Pharmacy is still a great profession and a lot of us can accomplish a lot of things. I just think you have to be competitive.. but if all you want to do is work retail chain, then your road may be rocky.

 

[jinga]

When I started RX school in 1991, average pharmacist salary was around $40K.. there was not a shortage.. in fact when I graduated, there were no jobs as 30% of us didn't have a job lined up at graduation and 30% went to residency. One of the jackass professors who was in the Navy Reserves swore in one of my classmates at the graduation and blurted out "Eat your heart out, she has a job."

Pharmacy is still a great profession and a lot of us can accomplish a lot of things. I just think you have to be competitive.. but if all you want to do is work retail chain, then your road may be rocky.

I've read in various places that pharmacy is subject to about a 15 year cycle; however I feel this one might be a bit different due to the tough recession and the absurd amount of new schools opening when it's quite obvious they're not needed.

"Eat your heart out..." what a jerk. Not impressive...

Z, how long did it take for things to improve? Not that it has much bearing on our current situation.

 

[Its Z]

Year after I graduated, the retail expansion began. Then in 7 years, it tripled my pharmacist salary.

 

[tungsten87]

Year after I graduated, the retail expansion began. Then in 7 years, it tripled my pharmacist salary.

wow, that is pretty incredible. did you just receive gradual raises over this seven year period or did it increase in intervals? if that happened to be me I would have known it were too good to be true. the extreme growth in the 90's/early 2000's really screwed a lot of people up. many lived way beyond their means and are getting rocked now, especially in housing.

 

[jinga]

Year after I graduated, the retail expansion began. Then in 7 years, it tripled my pharmacist salary.

It will be interesting to see where things proceed from here. I'm considering military service...no joke.

 

[Its Z]

Then it took another 8 years to quadruple my salary from my original pharmacist salary.. So in a way...last 5+ years hasn't contributed much to increase in salary like the mid and late 90's...

 

[Its Z]

wow, that is pretty incredible. did you just receive gradual raises over this seven year period or did it increase in intervals? if that happened to be me I would have known it were too good to be true. the extreme growth in the 90's/early 2000's really screwed a lot of people up. many lived way beyond their means and are getting rocked now, especially in housing.

Salary increase came 2 different ways...market adjustments and moving up in the totem pole.

 

[tungsten87]

Salary increase came 2 different ways...market adjustments and moving up in the totem pole.

the market adjustments are what i'm more interested in.

 

[Its Z]

It will be interesting to see where things proceed from here. I'm considering military service...no joke.

If I was a pharm student today, I'd camp outside a potential employer and build a relationship with the person hiring...even volunteer enormous hours until I get on the payroll.. then do a lot of extra projects (paid or not) meanwhile getting to know the key players at the hospital (CEO, COO, CNO, VP, Physicians...board members) and become a team member...

I don't know about retail chains... and how to proceed with that..

 

[Its Z]

the market adjustments are what i'm more interested in.

Good luck then. Because those things are gone. Market adjustments occurred due to retails fighting over pharmacists with a license and pulse.

 

[tungsten87]

Good luck then. Because those things are gone. Market adjustments occurred due to retails fighting over pharmacists with a license and pulse.

no i don't mean currently or in the future. i'm interested in the adjustments that took place in that seven year period you mentioned.

 

[Its Z]

Well,

In order to hire new pharmacists and having to compete with retailers increasing their salaries, hospitals had to make adjustments always trailing a bit. Hospital HR department usually runs a market salary report. It only takes 1 hospital to adjust up the salary for the next one to make an adjustment. It's a domino effect. I went from $19.75 per hour to $26.67 within a year.

 

[joetrisman]

If I was a pharm student today, I'd camp outside a potential employer and build a relationship with the person hiring...even volunteer enormous hours until I get on the payroll.. then do a lot of extra projects (paid or not) meanwhile getting to know the key players at the hospital (CEO, COO, CNO, VP, Physicians...board members) and become a team member...

I don't know about retail chains... and how to proceed with that..

I'm working on some of this. In terms of special projects, have any general advice on upstarting these or seeking them out? Also, any resumes that you've gotten over the years that had any credentials that really grabbed you? I'm wanting to do ID in a hospital setting specifically. I'm working retail at the moment, unable to land a spot in a hospital. I'm going to start volunteering at the VA to get hospital experience as soon as school starts. I'm trying to find things I can do while I'm in pharm school to increase my marketability. I'm brushing up on my portuguese and think I'm going to start working on spanish soon and see if I can square a cert in both before I graduate.

 

[Its Z]

Of all the people I've worked with, the people I'm most impressed with aren't those specially gifted brilliant people... but those individuals that came through for you and who were accountable and who I could count on..

It's those who would come in on a short notice... who'd stay for extra shift when someone called in sick etc.

yeah yeah...I read people say they'll never sacrifice family for job.. well, that's good. But sometimes short term sacrifices can result in a long term gain.. It's all about balance in life.

 

[pharm B]

It will be interesting to see where things proceed from here. I'm considering military service...no joke.

Just make sure you do all your research before you sign any papers and, you'll probably hear this often in the coming future, "don't join for the money."

I would love to go back into the Navy as a pharmacist, but the possibility of going to Iraq has taken that deal off the table.

Regarding the OP: is there any organization that oversees the ACPE? I only ask because I know from others' posts (such as cheburashka) that finding an intern job while in school is damn near impossible in parts of California, so opening a new school truly would only make things worse. Texas is apparently considering opening yet another school, despite having opened two new ones four years ago.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Of all the people I've worked with, the people I'm most impressed with aren't those specially gifted brilliant people... but those individuals that came through for you and who were accountable and who I could count on..

It's those who would come in on a short notice... who'd stay for extra shift when someone called in sick etc.

I voluntarily worked evenings (because it afforded me the opportunity to take on clinical situations as they occurred rather than being forced to defer them to the clinical RPh)

I worked every Thanksgiving and Xmas because I hate them both.

I worked numerous 16 hour shifts during the winter when all hell broke loose.

Boy, that really got me far in the good graces of the director...lol...

 

[MountainPharmD]

I voluntarily worked evenings (because it afforded me the opportunity to take on clinical situations as they occurred rather than being forced to defer them to the clinical RPh)

I worked every Thanksgiving and Xmas because I hate them both.

I worked numerous 16 hour shifts during the winter when all hell broke loose.

Boy, that really got me far in the good graces of the director...lol...

Perhaps calling him an idiot was not such a good idea. Sort of takes the shine off all your good deeds.

Someday you will learn to play the game. Untill then you will have stuff like this happen to you.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Perhaps calling him an idiot was not such a good idea. Sort of takes the shine off all your good deeds.

Someday you will learn to play the game. Untill then you will have stuff like this happen to you.

I called him a "giant ****ing idiot that is oblivious to his department."

And he deserved it.

And he never did like me...

 

[steveysmith54]

I called him a "giant ****ing idiot that is oblivious to his department."

And he deserved it.

And he never did like me...

I can't imagine why that could be😀

JUST KIDDING WVU!

 

[Nupe954]

But sometimes short term sacrifices can result in a long term gain.. It's all about balance in life.

👍👍 So true Z