What counts as hours for veterinary experience?

[pandacowl]

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Helping friend to apply this next cycle in 2019 preparing for resume.

She volunteered and now works with mice in a biomedical research lab 30 hours a week approx will have 500 hours of that at time of applying

Now looking for shadowing opportunities and also part time as a part time vet assistant will have about 150- 200 hours of each at time of applying.

Probably first choice is michigan state vet school since in state. Recommended amount of shadowing is 150 hours i believe. Not sure about other schools? Does anyone have an easy to access comprehensive requirements for shadowing in other schools? Also was reading that most people have over a thousand of hours of "veterinary experience" on average does biomedical research with mice count for that? Thanks!

 

[2018APreVetOdyssey]

Research is always counted as research, even if done with a veterinarian. This chart is from a VMCAS manual from a few years ago

 

[ajs513]

Any experience where there is a veterinarian on site supervising you counts as veterinary experience. If there’s not a veterinarian supervising you, it’s not veterinary experience.

I don’t have a list of what schools require, but if you don’t get at least 500 hours I can tell you it won’t be sufficient unless you have stellar grades and thousands of hours of experience elsewhere. It’s not difficult. Work at a vet clinic two days a week for 9-10 hours a day. It’s a good way to make some extra money and the experience adds up quickly. Work 20 hours a week for a year and you’ll have 1000 hours. The more you work, the quicker you’ll get the hours. It’s also a good way to tell if you actually want to be a vet. I know tons of people that started shadowing vets/working at clinics and quickly realized this profession wasn’t for them.

Edit: never mind. If it’s research then it only counts as research.

 

[pandacowl]

Research is always counted as research, even if done with a veterinarian. This chart is from a VMCAS manual from a few years agoView attachment 250065

thanks!

 

[pandacowl]

Any experience where there is a veterinarian on site supervising you counts as veterinary experience. If there’s not a veterinarian supervising you, it’s not veterinary experience.

I don’t have a list of what schools require, but if you don’t get at least 500 hours I can tell you it won’t be sufficient unless you have stellar grades and thousands of hours of experience elsewhere. It’s not difficult. Work at a vet clinic two days a week for 9-10 hours a day. It’s a good way to make some extra money and the experience adds up quickly. Work 20 hours a week for a year and you’ll have 1000 hours. The more you work, the quicker you’ll get the hours. It’s also a good way to tell if you actually want to be a vet. I know tons of people that started shadowing vets/working at clinics and quickly realized this profession wasn’t for them.

Edit: never mind. If it’s research then it only counts as research.

Well her grades are high 3.7+ for science and is working on the vet experiences probably will be a little short of 500 at time of application is that so bad considering just graduated?

 

[ajs513]

Well her grades are high 3.7+ for science and is working on the vet experiences probably will be a little short of 500 at time of application is that so bad considering just graduated? .

The just graduating thing doesn’t really make a difference. Most people I know who were pre-vet started shadowing their freshman year or earlier. I started halfway through my sophomore year and had 3500 hours by the time I applied. The issue a lot of students have is that they wait too long to get experience in order to focus on school to get better grades. While grades are important, many vet schools are taking a holistic approach now. This means that they’ll look at grades and see the bigger pictures. Were your working 20-30 hours a week, did several extracurriculars, and did a research project and ended up with a 3.3? Did you do nothing but study for your classes and get a 3.7? If so, then the 3.7 is less impressive.

Mind you, I’m not at all saying your friend is in a bad position. I’m just saying for other people reading that it’s always best to try and start early. You can explain a lower grade by saying you wanted to balance work and school and other aspects of your education. It’s hard to explain not having experience.

 

[danseth]

I just want to say that it's possible to have lower hours in regards to the veterinary experience category! I'm proof of that. Majority of my veterinary experience that was shown on my application was one summer of working ~30 hours per week as a veterinary assistant at an emergency clinic and ~2/3 of a semester of volunteering in an animal cancer center oncology clinic for 2 hours per week. So I think I maybe had like 350 hours of veterinarian-shadowed experience on my application. I do admit I had a LOT of animal experience hours (I never realized how many hours I had animal experience wise until VMCAS calculated the time I put into helping raise a colt).

Anyway, I digress, I was accepted to three schools (CSU, WSU, and Midwestern), waitlisted to Cornell, and denied to UC Davis (more because of my GPA I think, which was a 3.76 at time of application) with the animal and veterinary experience that I hold. So, having lower numbers of veterinary experience hours isn't a make or break. As long as she has some hours on there and can show that she is academically sound and her essays explain her background as a whole she should be fine!

 

[shee-p]

I’m the opposite of Danseth. I have a 3.67 cumulative GPA with higher GPAs for my science and last 45 GPA. I applied with very low hours overall (~400 vet, ~100 animal exp, and 0 research), but I was heavily involved in my community as an RA. I was also in band. I got denied by 3 schools so far and waitlisted at one. I interviewed at my in-state and am waiting to hear back from them. I would definitely advise your friend to rake up as many quality, diverse veterinary hours as she can. It can’t hurt!

 

[SkiOtter]

FYI Michigan State doesn’t really consider grades beyond you having a 3.0 in prereq and last 36 hour gpa. Michigan state (and most other schools) want to see experience and VARIED experience. I’m not talking 10 hours each at 50 different clinics, I’m talking a good amount of small animal AND a good amount of large animal/equine. If she can get a couple different places, that’s great, if not that’s fine too. But she needs to make sure she starts soon enough and develops a good enough relationship with at least one vet (preferably at least 2) where she could get a STRONG letter of recommendation.

If she were to get an assistant job somewhere in small animal, she could spend her time shadowing large animal/equine or other small animal practices or specialty practices. It’s not required to have paid experience, so if all she can get is shadowing, that’s completely fine. I enjoyed shadowing more than I enjoyed being a vet assistant and holding animals, clipping nails, giving vaccines, etc. Shadowing gave me more opportunity to learn about vetmed and what being a vet was like than being an assistant did. Being an assistant taught me I would not be happy being a tech my whole life.

 

[LyraGardenia]

You can explain a lower grade by saying you wanted to balance work and school and other aspects of your education. It’s hard to explain not having experience..

On the other hand, it's generally a lot easier to take a gap year or two to get experience than it is to pull up a low GPA. It's becoming more and more common for students to have to work to support themselves through undergrad, so I don't know that every school would accept that as an explanation for lower grades. I agree it's best to start getting vet experience early, but I wouldn't recommend overextending yourself and sacrificing your grades.

 

[ajs513]

On the other hand, it's generally a lot easier to take a gap year or two to get experience than it is to pull up a low GPA. It's becoming more and more common for students to have to work to support themselves through undergrad, so I don't know that every school would accept that as an explanation for lower grades. I agree it's best to start getting vet experience early, but I wouldn't recommend overextending yourself and sacrificing your grades.

No I totally understand and agree with what you’re saying. My point though is that for students who DO want a very good chance of getting in straight out of undergrad, start working or shadowing early on. Not to the point where your grades suffer tremendously. If you go from a 3.8 to a 3.7 that’s not a big deal. Obviously don’t do more than you can handle and if you start slipping by .2 or more points then definitely rework your strategy. But GPA seems to be becoming less and less important as the main indicator of whether or not you’ll get in. Many schools are going towards experience.

 

[pandacowl]

Thanks guys! The thing is she wasn't just focused on studying she was volunteering at a biomedical research lab where she is now working as a technician part time. So in the research category she has easily 1000 hours. I don't know if they'll take that into consideration when she has only 300-400 hours of veterinary experience hours

 

[pandacowl]

I just want to say that it's possible to have lower hours in regards to the veterinary experience category! I'm proof of that. Majority of my veterinary experience that was shown on my application was one summer of working ~30 hours per week as a veterinary assistant at an emergency clinic and ~2/3 of a semester of volunteering in an animal cancer center oncology clinic for 2 hours per week. So I think I maybe had like 350 hours of veterinarian-shadowed experience on my application. I do admit I had a LOT of animal experience hours (I never realized how many hours I had animal experience wise until VMCAS calculated the time I put into helping raise a colt).

Anyway, I digress, I was accepted to three schools (CSU, WSU, and Midwestern), waitlisted to Cornell, and denied to UC Davis (more because of my GPA I think, which was a 3.76 at time of application) with the animal and veterinary experience that I hold. So, having lower numbers of veterinary experience hours isn't a make or break. As long as she has some hours on there and can show that she is academically sound and her essays explain her background as a whole she should be fine!

did you only apply to those 5? what's the average to number of applied schools?

 

[ajs513]

did you only apply to those 5? what's the average to number of applied schools?

The average is 5. Depending on stats, finances, and where you live it can be fewer or considerably more. I applied to 11, mainly because I wasn’t super confident, had saved up a lot of money for applications, and originally lived income a state without a vet school.

 

[pandacowl]

The average is 5. Depending on stats, finances, and where you live it can be fewer or considerably more. I applied to 11, mainly because I wasn’t super confident, had saved up a lot of money for applications, and originally lived income a state without a vet school.

Thanks how many did you get interviewed at/ accepted? Worst comes to worse if she doesnt get in this year she’ll continue working and volunteering re apply

 

[pandacowl]

I’m the opposite of Danseth. I have a 3.67 cumulative GPA with higher GPAs for my science and last 45 GPA. I applied with very low hours overall (~400 vet, ~100 animal exp, and 0 research), but I was heavily involved in my community as an RA. I was also in band. I got denied by 3 schools so far and waitlisted at one. I interviewed at my in-state and am waiting to hear back from them. I would definitely advise your friend to rake up as many quality, diverse veterinary hours as she can. It can’t hurt!

Good luck! Why do you think you got waistlisted if i dont mind asking? I thought majority of interviewees get an offer usually

 

[pandacowl]

Thanks how many did you get interviewed at/ accepted? Worst comes to worse if she doesnt get in this year she’ll continue working and volunteering re apply

Also i told her to apply to 8 schools given her low vet hours we are in michigan does that sound reasonable

 

[danseth]

did you only apply to those 5? what's the average to number of applied schools?

Yes I only applied to the five.

 

[ajs513]

Also i told her to apply to 8 schools given her low vet hours we are in michigan does that sound reasonable

I got Interview offers for half of them, accepted at 2 before I withdrew the rest of my applications since I got accepted to my first choice. I think 8 sounds good and there’s a good chance she’ll get accepted to Michigan State. I would recommend casting a wide net as well. Apply to a reach, a few schools that she thinks she stands a chance, and a few schools that she feels may be easy-ish to get into. The truth is that you never know what’s going to happen. I got rejected from a couple schools I thought would be sure things. Penn was my reach and I got in. You seriously never know unless you’re the best of the best.

 

[pandacowl]

I got Interview offers for half of them, accepted at 2 before I withdrew the rest of my applications since I got accepted to my first choice. I think 8 sounds good and there’s a good chance she’ll get accepted to Michigan State. I would recommend casting a wide net as well. Apply to a reach, a few schools that she thinks she stands a chance, and a few schools that she feels may be easy-ish to get into. The truth is that you never know what’s going to happen. I got rejected from a couple schools I thought would be sure things. Penn was my reach and I got in. You seriously never know unless you’re the best of the best.

Thanks so much im going to tell her to get going on those hours and try to get at least 400 by September!

 

[ajs513]

Thanks so much im going to tell her to get going on those hours and try to get at least 400 by September!

That’s honestly her best bet. It would just really do her well to cram in as much experience as possible between now and the application deadline. She has 7 months. If she works 20 hours a week through to the deadline, she will get 600 hours of experience. If she gets something close to full time for the summer, that’ll bring her up to around 1,000. If she can do it once she’s out of school it will really open up her options for where she applies.

 

[SkiOtter]

Good luck! Why do you think you got waistlisted if i dont mind asking? I thought majority of interviewees get an offer usually

There’s a good portion of people who interview that get flat out rejected or waitlisted.

Also i told her to apply to 8 schools given her low vet hours we are in michigan does that sound reasonable

Depends on which schools she’s applying to. Make sure she matches the schools to her strengths. If she has a stronger last 45 than cumulative, look for schools that focus more on last 45 than cumulative. If she is under the average stats for accepted students, money could potentially be better spent elsewhere, though there still is a chance of acceptance because averages have people both above and below that number. If she has a great gre, apply to schools that still look at the gre.

 

[battie]

Also i told her to apply to 8 schools given her low vet hours we are in michigan does that sound reasonable

Depends on her school list. I applied to 8, and 2 of them were poor choices that were destined for rejection from the beginning because of their application process. So she could apply to 8 schools that don't look at her strengths and get 8 rejections without interview.

It's not the quantity of schools that matter (unless you can apply to >15), it's the complement that your application holds to their application process.

 

[shee-p]

Good luck! Why do you think you got waistlisted if i dont mind asking? I thought majority of interviewees get an offer usually

The school I was waitlisted at doesn’t interview non-residents, but if I had to guess the reason I was waitlisted, it would be low veterinary and animal experience hours, and my essays.

 

[pandacowl]

There’s a good portion of people who interview that get flat out rejected or waitlisted.

Depends on which schools she’s applying to. Make sure she matches the schools to her strengths. If she has a stronger last 45 than cumulative, look for schools that focus more on last 45 than cumulative. If she is under the average stats for accepted students, money could potentially be better spent elsewhere, though there still is a chance of acceptance because averages have people both above and below that number. If she has a great gre, apply to schools that still look at the gre.

I thought majority of interviees have an offer. Oh crap i didnt realize majority of schools still look at gre since michigan state doesn’t. She didnt take it yet has to take that by august?

 

[ajs513]

I thought majority of interviees have an offer. Oh crap i didnt realize majority of schools still look at gre since michigan state doesn’t. She didnt take it yet has to take that by august?

If she’s a naturally good standardized test taker then the GRE is no exception. If she really has to study hard then she should start soon. The GRE, to me at least, isn’t any more difficult than the SAT. It’s not very long, the questions aren’t super complex, and you’re doing it on the computer separated from other students so you can’t see if someone is done before you. I didn’t study and got a 161/157/5 (V/Q/W). A lot of schools don’t care about writing so that didn’t do anything for me, but my verbal was well above a lot of schools’ averages. The quantitative was just above. What I’m saying is if she did well on the SAT without a ton of effort, she should have no problem with the GRE. Different schools have different deadlines. Some need to have the GRE in by the application deadline. Others are due in October. It usually takes about a week, maybe two weeks for schools to receive the GRE scores after you send them. It CAN take longer but typically doesn’t. Depending on the deadline this year I wouldn’t recommend taking it past mid-August. Also aim to submit VMCAS a few weeks before the due date so that if anything is messed up she has time to fix it.

 

[battie]

I thought majority of interviees have an offer.

Nope. My school interviews somewhere between 350 and 400 for 130 seats. Even for those interviewed and wait listed, getting pulled from the wait list is very cycle dependant. The year I applied, no one was pulled from the wait list. I know someone from the following cycle that was pulled in late july and who had signed on with another school. So it really depends on you, the other applicants, and the school.

 

[SnowJ]

I thought majority of interviees have an offer. Oh crap i didnt realize majority of schools still look at gre since michigan state doesn’t. She didnt take it yet has to take that by august?

The amount of interviewees that get offers will vary from school to school; for example I think Missouri interviews all in-state applicants that meet requirements (at least I think that's what I heard) so a good chunk of them won't get a straight up offer. I do think at my out of state Missouri interview I heard that everyone would either be accepted or have a waitlist spot, no more rejections. However I think Minnesota still does rejections post interview. It varies, but getting an interview is still a very good sign that you're in the running.
Remember the point of an interview is to help sort out students. If a majority got an acceptance they could probably skip the whole interview process and pick a much less time and work intensive way to sort out the top students.

 

[pandacowl]

If she’s a naturally good standardized test taker then the GRE is no exception. If she really has to study hard then she should start soon. The GRE, to me at least, isn’t any more difficult than the SAT. It’s not very long, the questions aren’t super complex, and you’re doing it on the computer separated from other students so you can’t see if someone is done before you. I didn’t study and got a 161/157/5 (V/Q/W). A lot of schools don’t care about writing so that didn’t do anything for me, but my verbal was well above a lot of schools’ averages. The quantitative was just above. What I’m saying is if she did well on the SAT without a ton of effort, she should have no problem with the GRE. Different schools have different deadlines. Some need to have the GRE in by the application deadline. Others are due in October. It usually takes about a week, maybe two weeks for schools to receive the GRE scores after you send them. It CAN take longer but typically doesn’t. Depending on the deadline this year I wouldn’t recommend taking it past mid-August. Also aim to submit VMCAS a few weeks before the due date so that if anything is messed up she has time to fix it.

Thanks! Does just being above average good enough for most schools?

 

[SkiOtter]

It’s not very long,

****in lol it’s a 4 hour test.

 

[ajs513]

****in lol it’s a 4 hour test.

There are breaks though and you can move on once you’re done with a section. For me I completed it in under three hours, which was better than the SAT in its old format when I took it.

 

[ajs513]

Thanks! Does just being above average good enough for most schools?

It depends on the school and other stats. Remember, averages mean that there are many people both above and below that statistic. For Penn, my GPA was below average but my last 45 was above average and my GRE was as well. I would research which schools value the GRE more or less.

 

[SkiOtter]

There are breaks though and you can move on once you’re done with a section. For me I completed it in under three hours, which was better than the SAT in its old format when I took it.

Without the breaks it’s still about 3 hours and 45 minutes. It’s a ****ing long ass test.
Just because you were able to get done quickly doesn’t mean everyone does. Most people do take that whole time.

 

[ajs513]

Without the breaks it’s still about 3 hours and 45 minutes. It’s a ****ing long ass test.
Just because you were able to get done quickly doesn’t mean everyone does. Most people do take that whole time.

I guess it’s short to me in comparison to what some standardized tests can be. My school also had 3 hour final exams and I’ve has two in a day several times.

 

[pandacowl]

I guess it’s short to me in comparison to what some standardized tests can be. My school also had 3 hour final exams and I’ve has two in a day several times.

im a medical school student my steps are like 7 hours so it's not that bad to me either 😛

 

[pandacowl]

It depends on the school and other stats. Remember, averages mean that there are many people both above and below that statistic. For Penn, my GPA was below average but my last 45 was above average and my GRE was as well. I would research which schools value the GRE more or less.

how does one know a school values gre more or less? it doesn't usually say how much they value each section on a vet school's profile that i've seen

 

[SkiOtter]

how does one know a school values gre more or less? it doesn't usually say how much they value each section on a vet school's profile that i've seen

Most schools tell you how they evaluate applicants. She can also email them and ask if they don’t make it clear.

 

[battie]

how does one know a school values gre more or less? it doesn't usually say how much they value each section on a vet school's profile that i've seen

Contacting the school directly. It's amazing how much info you can get by asking direct questions of the admissions department.

As an example, I got a 5.5/6 on the GRE analytical portion. So I specifically added schools to my list that considered the analytical portion so that it gave a boost to my otherwise below average GRE. I found that out by sending emails or calling. I preferred emails because I then had it in writing.

 

[pandacowl]

Contacting the school directly. It's amazing how much info you can get by asking direct questions of the admissions department.

As an example, I got a 5.5/6 on the GRE analytical portion. So I specifically added schools to my list that considered the analytical portion so that it gave a boost to my otherwise below average GRE. I found that out by sending emails or calling. I preferred emails because I then had it in writing.

Do you remember which ones you asked that valued gre more?

 

[SkiOtter]

Do you remember which ones you asked that valued gre more?

They’ve all changed in the past few years with some even dropping the gre. Best to contact them directly.

 

[battie]

Do you remember which ones you asked that valued gre more?

I applied 2015, so I have no idea if they're the same now.

 

[MissKitty131]

If she were to get an assistant job somewhere in small animal, she could spend her time shadowing large animal/equine or other small animal practices or specialty practices. It’s not required to have paid experience, so if all she can get is shadowing, that’s completely fine. I enjoyed shadowing more than I enjoyed being a vet assistant and holding animals, clipping nails, giving vaccines, etc. Shadowing gave me more opportunity to learn about vetmed and what being a vet was like than being an assistant did. Being an assistant taught me I would not be happy being a tech my whole life.

Not to hijack the thread, but I had a quick question. I'm in CA and was a bit confused as to how people are working as "vet assistants." Do you have to be a registered vet tech in order to work as a vet assistant? If not, (pardon my naivety) how is that legal? Does it vary by state? Few vets will even let adults shadow, let alone work without being a registered vet tech... Shadowing for 1,000+ hours is definitely doable, albeit daunting, but actually working as vet assistant sounds a little more beneficial, if that makes sense? Sorry if I sound stupid...

 

[SkiOtter]

Not to hijack the thread, but I had a quick question. I'm in CA and was a bit confused as to how people are working as "vet assistants." Do you have to be a registered vet tech in order to work as a vet assistant? If not, (pardon my naivety) how is that legal? Does it vary by state? Few vets will even let adults shadow, let alone work without being a registered vet tech... Shadowing for 1,000+ hours is definitely doable, albeit daunting, but actually working as vet assistant sounds a little more beneficial, if that makes sense? Sorry if I sound stupid...

A vet assistant is not a vet tech. Lots of places don’t require you to be go to school to be an assistant. For a tech, it depends on the state whether your state allows unlicensed techs or not. My state allows unlicensed techs. Unlicensed techs can be trained on the job versus going to school for it.

 

[ajs513]

Not to hijack the thread, but I had a quick question. I'm in CA and was a bit confused as to how people are working as "vet assistants." Do you have to be a registered vet tech in order to work as a vet assistant? If not, (pardon my naivety) how is that legal? Does it vary by state? Few vets will even let adults shadow, let alone work without being a registered vet tech... Shadowing for 1,000+ hours is definitely doable, albeit daunting, but actually working as vet assistant sounds a little more beneficial, if that makes sense? Sorry if I sound stupid...

I’ll post a link with info for each state about what qualifies as a vet tech and whether you need to be licensed or not. For example, in NJ (where I work) there’s nothing outlined for who can and can’t be a tech and what they can and can’t do. When in doubt, if it seems like only a veterinarian can do it, that’s probably the case. Things like surgery can only be done by a vet in New Jersey. Almost everything else can be done by an unlicensed tech. Some states do have clear distinctions between assistants and techs, but to my knowledge I don’t think any state requires you to be a licensed assistant.

https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Documents/scope_vet_assistant_duties.pdf

 

[hiellen]

Not to hijack the thread, but I had a quick question. I'm in CA and was a bit confused as to how people are working as "vet assistants." Do you have to be a registered vet tech in order to work as a vet assistant? If not, (pardon my naivety) how is that legal? Does it vary by state? Few vets will even let adults shadow, let alone work without being a registered vet tech... Shadowing for 1,000+ hours is definitely doable, albeit daunting, but actually working as vet assistant sounds a little more beneficial, if that makes sense? Sorry if I sound stupid...

Whether you call yourself a tech or assistant (or nurse for that matter) is dependent upon state. Almost all states at this point require an associates degree to become registered or certified. It is actually illegal to call yourself a tech in some states if you have not gone to school and passed the VTNE. I’m in GA and that is one of them and I’m pretty positive CA is as strict.

The laws are different for every state but there are legal limitations to the scope of practice for what a vet, tech, and assistant can do. Pretty sure CA’s laws are similar to GA, but here, an RVT is not allowed to diagnose, perform surgery, and prescribe medications, everything else is legal dependent upon the level of supervision of a vet. The problem with this as someone else said above, is that everyone pretty much does whatever they want because there is no governing body that checks to make sure assistants are not performing duties that they are actually by law not legally able to do. An example here is that it is illegal for anyone other than a vet or RVT to induce anesthesia, intubate, and monitor anesthesia, but I can tell you this happens all the time. Hence also why techs don’t get paid what they should even though they’ve gone to school and why the average time spent in the profession is 7 years. You can definitely find jobs as an assistant, just like if you’ve never had any restaurant experience it’s more difficult to find someone that will hire with no experience, but it is doable!

 

[battie]

I would honestly argue that the assistant programs are relatively worthless for what they cost. You don't need to spend 4-8k on an assistant program for things you can learn to do on the job for free (or be paid to learn).

Techs are a different consideration all together. However, some tech programs are also outrageously priced considering you are earning an associates. My bachelor's without scholarships would have been only 10k more than what the most expensive tech program costs in Colorado.

 

[MissKitty131]

Thank you guys! That cleared some things up for me. 😍

 

[cameronluna]

Sorry to hijack, but does anyone know if data collection counts as research experience?

 

[ajs513]

I would say it depends. If you’re part of a research team and your job was data collection, then yes. A lot of my research experience consisted of data collection. It was collecting observational data related to goat reproduction, so it was easier for me to decide that it counted. What did your data collection consist of? For me, I would stand in a barn for up to a couple hours at a time tallying specific observations related to goat courtship/dominance behavior. So I could quantify my hours a lot easier. If yours was something like sending out surveys on social media and then inputting the data into an excel spreadsheet, that’s a little more difficult.

 

[cameronluna]

I had an internship at the Penn Vet Working Dog center this past summer, and while I was heavily involved with the training of the dogs, I was also involved in a lot of data collection because everything the dogs did was recorded. Similar to your experience, I would record how long a dog took to search for a person/scent, if the dog would give any false indications, their behaviors, and so much more! Absolutely everything was recorded on data sheets.

I guess I wonder if it counts because I wasn't directly involved with the analysis of the data.